does the dole make people lazy?

Robsweezie

do you think dole payments cause people to rest on their laurels in terms of jobseeking and employment?


(oh look, yes it IS another dole thread, deal with it :pac:)

Into The Blue

No

Some folk just don't want to work.. If the dole wasn't there, they'd steal or beg.

Buona Fortuna

This should go well.

tomwaterford

Robsweezie wrote: »

do you think dole payments cause people to rest on their laurels in terms of jobseeking and employment?


(oh look, yes it IS another dole thread, deal with it :pac:)

No...it doesn't....how would it..it's **** all money to be trying to live off

RDM_83 again

Yes it kills motivation after a while, but thats normally after a period of frantic activity trying to get a job and being rejected by them all. Spent nearly a year on the dole and never going back to it wouldn't wish long term unemployment on my worst enemy.

Lyaiera

I think being on the dole discourages people and often leads to them losing pride and confidence in themselves.

Kevin McCloud

All they do all day is drink tay and bits of riding.

Another feckin Dole Thread

The One Doctor

Ok, I admit it. I live like a king on my €188 per week. I have a private jet, 3 girlfriends, 4 houses in Europe and 3 in the US, my very own MiG-29UM and a solid gold rocket car.

FFS.

Venus In Furs

In the sense that not having a routine/structure/reason to get up and out early in the morning, then yes, that can cause people to lose motivation. It's not necessarily a character weakness though - it's just part of the human condition.

drdidlittle

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

All they do all day is drink tay and bits of riding.

Bits of riding......... why not lots or loads or copious amounts? ?????

Chucken

Robsweezie wrote: »

do you think dole payments cause people to rest on their laurels in terms of jobseeking and employment?


(oh look, yes it IS another dole thread, deal with it :pac:)

You think you dont have to provide evidence of jobs applied for? Ffs

Birneybau

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

All they do all day is drink tay and bits of riding.

Quitting job tomorrow, sign me up.

tomwaterford

drdidlittle wrote: »

Bits of riding......... why not lots or loads or copious amounts? ?????

Too lazy!!!!

Kevin McCloud

drdidlittle wrote: »

Bits of riding......... why not lots or loads or copious amounts? ?????

Cos they are too lazy :pac:

Lapin

These stupid threads are getting tedious.

cnoc

Robsweezie wrote: »

do you think dole payments cause people to rest on their laurels in terms of jobseeking and employment?


(oh look, yes it IS another dole thread, deal with it :pac:)

What is your own status regarding work/dole?

yipeeeee

From another thread.

always suspected this, especially after the ESRI report a few years ago. So I sat down to do the calculations - put the lowest working wage at €12 / hour. The results are truly shocking. See below. Even at €20 / hour, or over 40K per year, the difference is only €117 per week, not counting cost of getting to work or medical card. If you assume 2 parents working, the result would be even worse - childcare would eat up any benefit from the second income.

I can't see any holes in my calculations, but maybe others can point them out. Also that the guy on €12 / hour gets to pay nearly 2 grand in tax !!!!!!

Also seems to show the FIS is a joke. If these calculations are anywhere near correct, then welfare should be cut dramatically - as we can't afford to pay everyone 80K per annum.

The assumptions are as follows: typical family, 2 adults, 1 working, 2 children, one primary, one secondary.
Renting a house in Cork €1000 per month.

Social Welfare Rates:
Single Person: €188 p.w.
€124 p.w. dependent adult
€29.80 p.w. dependent child

2 Adults + 2 children = €371.60 p.w. = €19,323.20 p.a.

Rent Allowance
County Cork Couple with 2 children or one-parent with 2 children
€725 per month
€725 p.m. = €8,700.00 p.a.

Back To School allowance
The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 4-11 on or before 30 September 2014 is €100.

€100 for primary school child , €200 for secondary school child. €300 p.a.

The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 12-22 on or before 30 September 2014 is €200. Children aged between 18 and 22 years must be in full-time second-level education in a recognised school or college.


Rent house €1000 p.m

*************************************************************
* Social Welfare *
*************************************************************
S.W. Income: €19,323.20
Rent Allowance: €8,700.00
Back To School: €300
Rent contribution 40 p.w. (2080 p.a.)
Total income: €26,243
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €14,243

*************************************************************
* Working *
*************************************************************
Household single earner earning €12 per hour, 39 hour week : 468 p.w. = €24,336 p.a.
Tax: €1,995 (!)
Net income: €22,341 (€429.63 p.w.)
FIS: € 103.80 (60% of 602 - 429.63)
Total: €533.43 (€27,738.36)
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €15,738 (€1495 p.a. or €28.75 per week) better off NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Household single earner earning €20 per hour, 39 hour week : €780 p.w. = €40,560 p.a.
Tax: €6,132
Net income: €34,428
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €22,428
(€8,185 p.a. or only €157.40 p.w better off) NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Tax source: http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/tax-transparency/

drdidlittle

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Cos they are too lazy :pac:

Could be doung their bit for the country. Increase the population which in turn increases overall demand. This will lead to greater GDP which is a good thing ????? Help pay for their pensions

Lyaiera

You don't get rent allowance if your rent is higher than the allowed limit.

porsche959

porsche959

Lapin wrote: »

These stupid threads are getting tedious.

Why are there never threads along the lines of

"does inheriting a trust fund make you lazy?
"are the 1% leeching on society?"

etc.

Guess some posters just prefer to go for the easy targets, as directed by the crappy right wing shock jock radio shows they listen to.

Chucken

yipeeeee wrote: »

From another thread.

always suspected this, especially after the ESRI report a few years ago. So I sat down to do the calculations - put the lowest working wage at €12 / hour. The results are truly shocking. See below. Even at €20 / hour, or over 40K per year, the difference is only €117 per week, not counting cost of getting to work or medical card. If you assume 2 parents working, the result would be even worse - childcare would eat up any benefit from the second income.

I can't see any holes in my calculations, but maybe others can point them out. Also that the guy on €12 / hour gets to pay nearly 2 grand in tax !!!!!!

Also seems to show the FIS is a joke. If these calculations are anywhere near correct, then welfare should be cut dramatically - as we can't afford to pay everyone 80K per annum.

The assumptions are as follows: typical family, 2 adults, 1 working, 2 children, one primary, one secondary.
Renting a house in Cork €1000 per month.

Social Welfare Rates:
Single Person: €188 p.w.
€124 p.w. dependent adult
€29.80 p.w. dependent child

2 Adults + 2 children = €371.60 p.w. = €19,323.20 p.a.

Rent Allowance
County Cork Couple with 2 children or one-parent with 2 children
€725 per month
€725 p.m. = €8,700.00 p.a.

Back To School allowance
The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 4-11 on or before 30 September 2014 is €100.

€100 for primary school child , €200 for secondary school child. €300 p.a.

The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 12-22 on or before 30 September 2014 is €200. Children aged between 18 and 22 years must be in full-time second-level education in a recognised school or college.


Rent house €1000 p.m

*************************************************************
* Social Welfare *
*************************************************************
S.W. Income: €19,323.20
Rent Allowance: €8,700.00
Back To School: €300
Rent contribution 40 p.w. (2080 p.a.)
Total income: €26,243
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €14,243

*************************************************************
* Working *
*************************************************************
Household single earner earning €12 per hour, 39 hour week : 468 p.w. = €24,336 p.a.
Tax: €1,995 (!)
Net income: €22,341 (€429.63 p.w.)
FIS: € 103.80 (60% of 602 - 429.63)
Total: €533.43 (€27,738.36)
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €15,738 (€1495 p.a. or €28.75 per week) better off NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Household single earner earning €20 per hour, 39 hour week : €780 p.w. = €40,560 p.a.
Tax: €6,132
Net income: €34,428
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €22,428
(€8,185 p.a. or only €157.40 p.w better off) NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Tax source: http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/tax-transparency/

WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH THE DOLE MAKING A PERSON LAZY...?

*woops, cap locks stuck*

Montroseee

Whats with all the bloody dole/class thread lately?

Nomis21

If one is under 62 years old, one must 'engage' with employment services. In most counties of Ireland this means you will be sent to multiple interviews to attend and within a short time will be expected to sign up for a community employment scheme that one will be offered, doing usually manual work for about 20 hours a week for just 20 Euro more per week than the dole.

Chucken

Montroseee wrote: »

Whats with all the bloody dole/class thread lately?

I dont know? Have you an essay due or something?

Robsweezie

maybe lazy was too strong and quite an inflammatory word to use, motivational issues was more what I was getting at.

unemployment is something close to a lot of peoples hearts, myself included as not long ago I was claiming dole. im now in a steady job but I wanted to gauge opinions to see if they mirrored my own. being jobless definitely caused me to sit back and wallow in that lifestyle to the point where I wasn't arsed looking and lost a lot of hope, once I got the job I struggled having responsibilities and settling back into a routine again after months and months of sitting around. it kinda made a slob out of me if im honest....I got too comfortable in the situation I was in....only filling out forms to keep the social off my back...... so theres my situation

Ave Sodalis

Montroseee wrote: »

Whats with all the bloody dole/class thread lately?

Why are you asking us? You've created most of them...

Montroseee

sup_dude wrote: »

Why are you asking us? You've created most of them...

I have created threads for logical discussion, there is a small cohort on here that are actively trying to derail them.

Ave Sodalis

Montroseee wrote: »

I have created threads for logical discussion, there is a small cohort on here that are actively trying to derail them.

Funny how your threads for "logical discussion" seem to have something to do with lower class and *insert bad habit/generally looked down upon thing here*. Yet you've the gall to complain amount the amount of threads being created and now you're trying to defend that...

MadDog76

It really annoys me when someone on the Dole says "I'm not working for 20 euros a week!!" ........... as if they have the right to deduct their Dole money from their potential wages to evaluate if it's "worth" it to work!?!!??!!

Just a little reality check ........... you are not working for 20 euros a week, you are working to earn your own money to pay your own way in life and contribute in some way to society as a whole.

ps This post is not aimed at those who are genuinely looking for work, it's aimed at ......... well, you know who you are!!

Oh and just to answer the thread question .......... being on the Dole long term can effect the motivations of some to the point where they look for excuses (see above) not to work ........... whereas others are highly motivated to get back to work asap.

Into The Blue

No

Nomis21 wrote: »

a community employment scheme that one will be offered, doing usually manual work for about 20 hours a week for just 20 Euro more per week than the dole.

€208 a week tax free for 20hrs work? How is that a bad thing?

Chancer3001

No

No, dole people have a serious egg up and go attitude.

I can never figure out why the majority of people on the dole don't have employers head hunting them on a daily basis.

Most are such obviously good employment options.


Although a small few do sit around and drink and smoke fags that the tax payer pays for. Which is a bit annoying if I'm honest.

Slicemeister

What did the lazy man say when he put his hand into the fire??





My hand is on fire.

ireland.man

Chancer3001 wrote: »

No, dole people have a serious egg up and go attitude.

I can never figure out why the majority of people on the dole don't have employers head hunting them on a daily basis.

Most are such obviously good employment options.


Although a small few do sit around and drink and smoke fags that the tax payer pays for. Which is a bit annoying if I'm honest.

I don't possess the erudition to argue against such well crafted arguments we'll see on this thread against people on the dole.

The One Doctor

yipeeeee wrote: »

From another thread.

always suspected this, especially after the ESRI report a few years ago. So I sat down to do the calculations - put the lowest working wage at €12 / hour. The results are truly shocking. See below. Even at €20 / hour, or over 40K per year, the difference is only €117 per week, not counting cost of getting to work or medical card. If you assume 2 parents working, the result would be even worse - childcare would eat up any benefit from the second income.

I can't see any holes in my calculations, but maybe others can point them out. Also that the guy on €12 / hour gets to pay nearly 2 grand in tax !!!!!!

Also seems to show the FIS is a joke. If these calculations are anywhere near correct, then welfare should be cut dramatically - as we can't afford to pay everyone 80K per annum.

The assumptions are as follows: typical family, 2 adults, 1 working, 2 children, one primary, one secondary.
Renting a house in Cork €1000 per month.

Social Welfare Rates:
Single Person: €188 p.w.
€124 p.w. dependent adult
€29.80 p.w. dependent child

2 Adults + 2 children = €371.60 p.w. = €19,323.20 p.a.

Rent Allowance
County Cork Couple with 2 children or one-parent with 2 children
€725 per month
€725 p.m. = €8,700.00 p.a.

Back To School allowance
The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 4-11 on or before 30 September 2014 is €100.

€100 for primary school child , €200 for secondary school child. €300 p.a.

The allowance paid for each eligible child aged 12-22 on or before 30 September 2014 is €200. Children aged between 18 and 22 years must be in full-time second-level education in a recognised school or college.


Rent house €1000 p.m

*************************************************************
* Social Welfare *
*************************************************************
S.W. Income: €19,323.20
Rent Allowance: €8,700.00
Back To School: €300
Rent contribution 40 p.w. (2080 p.a.)
Total income: €26,243
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €14,243

*************************************************************
* Working *
*************************************************************
Household single earner earning €12 per hour, 39 hour week : 468 p.w. = €24,336 p.a.
Tax: €1,995 (!)
Net income: €22,341 (€429.63 p.w.)
FIS: € 103.80 (60% of 602 - 429.63)
Total: €533.43 (€27,738.36)
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €15,738 (€1495 p.a. or €28.75 per week) better off NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Household single earner earning €20 per hour, 39 hour week : €780 p.w. = €40,560 p.a.
Tax: €6,132
Net income: €34,428
Rent: €12,000
Net after rent: €22,428
(€8,185 p.a. or only €157.40 p.w better off) NOT COUNTING MEDICAL CARD OR COST OF GETTING TO WORK

Tax source: http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/tax-transparency/

In Cork that might work. It won't work in Dublin. Rents are too high to get Rent Allowance. Social Housing waiting lists are 8 years for Fingal CC.

Chancer3001

No

To be honest I'd be in favour of abolishing the dole, or reducing it by about 75%.

Obviously, I'd still feed and clothe and shelter people, but I'd do it through a voucher system.

Nobody has a problem with people being fed and housed but it's having "so much" money that they can drink themselves silly every day that irks people.

Montroseee

Chancer3001 wrote: »

To be honest I'd be in favour of abolishing the dole, or reducing it by about 75%.

Obviously, I'd still feed and clothe and shelter people, but I'd do it through a voucher system.

Nobody has a problem with people being fed and housed but it's having "so much" money that they can drink themselves silly every day that irks people.

You may be able to take comfort in the fact that a lot of the money they spend on alcohol goes back to the gov.

Chancer3001

No

I do not.

anonyanony

Chancer3001 wrote: »

To be honest I'd be in favour of abolishing the dole, or reducing it by about 75%.

Obviously, I'd still feed and clothe and shelter people, but I'd do it through a voucher system.

Nobody has a problem with people being fed and housed but it's having "so much" money that they can drink themselves silly every day that irks people.

You can just sell the vouchers for cash like what happens in america it won't fix it

Chancer3001

No

Put your name on the voucher.

Need Id to use it.

Lyaiera

The One Doctor wrote: »

In Cork that might work. It won't work in Dublin. Rents are too high to get Rent Allowance. Social Housing waiting lists are 8 years for Fingal CC.

It doesn't work in Cork either. Most places are well above the amount given for rent allowance, at least for a single person, couple or small family.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I do think people lose any ambition if they're on the dole long term. I know a couple who've been on the dole years, they get rent allowance and can live comfortably. He was telling me this week they got 25% of their payment as a bonus. I said oh right didn't realise they were giving out bonuses and he said how they'll be begging the full bonus next year and how that'll really help them for next Christmas. I just found it insane that 12 months from now he was still planning on being unemployed, and relying on social welfare

Chancer3001

No

Nice of the tax payers to buy Xmas stuff for every dole person in the country.

Hope they enjoy the tree and presents and stuff.

My good deed done for the month!

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nice of the tax payers to buy Xmas stuff for every dole person in the country.

Hope they enjoy the tree and presents and stuff.

My good deed done for the month!

Sure look it...if your jealous/wish to choose that as a lifestyle...feel free to go for it

To sneer/openly mock those worse off than you is about as low as you can go in my books

Lyaiera

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Nice of the tax payers to buy Xmas stuff for every dole person in the country.

Hope they enjoy the tree and presents and stuff.

My good deed done for the month!

Do people really consider paying tax a "good deed?"

Chancer3001

No

tomwaterford wrote: »

Sure look it...if your jealous/wish to choose that as a lifestyle...feel free to go for it

To sneer/openly mock those worse off than you is about as low as you can go in my books

You can keep your books.

Of course I'm jealous of free bonus money.

Chancer3001

No

Lyaiera wrote: »

Do people really consider paying tax a "good deed?"

No, it's the fact that some of my tax is being used to buy nice things for Xmas for people who don't work that is the good deed.

Not paying my tax that goes on stuff I use or hospitals or parks or stuff

tomwaterford

Chancer3001 wrote: »

You can keep your books.

Of course I'm jealous of free bonus money.

Your in all honesty jealous of the money someone who is signing on is getting....have you ever had bills etc to pay...even if you arr on low pay etc....the dole is no way to live...if you are in all honesty jealous of it...I have to tell you are in for a long bitter life...what difference is it to you

Murphy7777

No

Yes it makes people lazy, I have a friend who has been on the dole for about 3 years, yet I manage to get a full time job every summer when I have break from college. Unless there is something wrong with you preventing you from working there is no reason someone should be on the dole that long, especially when they say things like "f@@k that Im not working in Mcdonalds/Tesco etc"

Lyaiera

Chancer3001 wrote: »

No, it's the fact that some of my tax is being used to buy nice things for Xmas for people who don't work that is the good deed.

Not paying my tax that goes on stuff I use or hospitals or parks or stuff

Ok. You're ok with paying tax if it's of benefit to you.