John Lennon

Macavity.

Why is it that John Lennon is universally regarded as a saint? His unsavory actions seem to be ignored, or rather are just unknown?

The man is regarded as a humanitarian, yet beat two of his wives. Lennon is known to have emotionally abused his own son, Julian. A maid recalls how after his son once chuckled he responded by saying “I hate the way you fucking laugh!”. Julian was not even a teenager at the time.

His abuse, however, was not just aimed at women and children. In 1963, Bob Wooler (a friend of the band) implied jokingly that Lennon was gay. In a drunken state, Lennon almost beat Wooler to death, kicking him in the ribs several times. Instead of apologising, Lennon is quoted as saying - “He called me a bloody queer, and I bashed in his ribs for it” and “I realized I was actually going to kill him… I just saw it like a screen. If I hit him once more, that’s really going to be it. I really got shocked and for the first time thought: ‘I can kill this guy.’”

Imagine no possessions? It's easy if you try. Or perhaps, less easy in Lennon's case. The man who lived in a mansion with a 70+ acre estate.

Everything Lennon apparently stood for were ideals he never came close to living up to. Why is it, even now, he is widely regarded as a peace activist and humanitarian when in reality he was anything but?

tomwaterford

Macavity. wrote: »

Why is it that John Lennon is universally regarded as a saint? His unsavory actions seem to be ignored, or rather are just unknown?

The man is regarded as a humanitarian, yet beat two of his wives. Lennon is known to have emotionally abused his own son, Julian. A maid recalls how after his son once chuckled he responded by saying “I hate the way you fucking laugh!”. Julian was not even a teenager at the time.

His abuse, however, was not just aimed at women and children. In 1963, Bob Wooler (a friend of the band) implied jokingly that Lennon was gay. In a drunken state, Lennon almost beat Wooler to death, kicking him in the ribs several times. Instead of apologising, Lennon is quoted as saying - “He called me a bloody queer, and I bashed in his ribs for it” and “I realized I was actually going to kill him… I just saw it like a screen. If I hit him once more, that’s really going to be it. I really got shocked and for the first time thought: ‘I can kill this guy.’”

Imagine no possessions? It's easy if you try. Or perhaps, less easy in Lennon's case. The man who lived in a mansion with a 70+ acre estate.

Everything Lennon apparently stood for were ideals he never came close to living up to. Why is it, even now, he is widely regarded as a peace activist and humanitarian when in reality he was anything but?

not to mind he was junkie to top it all off

DazMarz

A tremendously talented individual, but with a dark side and demons dragging along with him.

better call saul

Don't call me len you little prick was one of his favourite sayings

Don Kedick

And his music was sh1t!

Filmer Paradise

He was a complicated character, that's for sure.

What the OP says is all true. He did have a dark side.

On the other hand, his upbringing wasn't ideal either.

Also, there was his talent. If nothing else, he wrote the song 'In my life' at 24 years old. Imagine that!

Venus In Furs

The love of his music eclipsing all the unsavoury stuff I guess. And he wrote and sang anti-war songs so he was OBVIOUSLY a peaceful person. :pac:

Mr_Muffin

Just a normal man like any other, being famous makes people think he was something else.

Macavity.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Just a normal man like any other, being famous makes people think he was something else.

I don't even think he was "a normal man". Most normal guys wouldn't do the things he did. It's not a case of being flawed like most people, he was a real abhorrent individual from what I've read. Obviously very talented though.

Venus In Furs

Isn't Jealous Guy an apology to Yoko for his controlling, paranoid tendencies?

Filmer Paradise

Macavity. wrote: »

I don't even think he was "a normal man". Most normal guys wouldn't do the things he did. It's not a case of being flawed like most people, he was a real abhorrent individual from what I've read. Obviously very talented though.

He wasn't normal & it's well known that he was not a nice chappie sometimes.

His music though, brought a lot of joy to an awful lot of people down the years.

Depends on who you talk to really.

He died a tragic death at a relatively young age & a lot of the 'Sainthood Thing' started from then on.

Mr_Muffin

Macavity. wrote: »

I don't even think he was "a normal man". Most normal guys wouldn't do the things he did. It's not a case of being flawed like most people, he was a real abhorrent individual from what I've read. Obviously very talented though.

Depends on what you call 'normal'. Also don't believe everything you read, if it came out of a book then more than likely the stories have been exaggerated beyond belief.

Macavity.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Depends on what you call 'normal'. Also don't believe everything you read, if it came out of a book then more than likely the stories have been exaggerated beyond belief.

Everything I have posted has reliable sources. I don't think beating women (or anyone unprovoked) is normal.

Don Kedick

The luck of the Irish was about the only decent thing he did.

Banjo String

He was so promising as a Celtic manager.

Oh.. Wrong Lennon

retalivity

He was in the Beatles.
He died young, shot by a crazed fan.

Ergo, sainthood, regardless of all the sh1te he did.

Filmer Paradise

Don Kedick wrote: »

And his music was sh1t!

Ah here. That's going too far now.

Banjo String

Macavity. wrote: »

Honoured that your 7500th post was in my thread. Some achievement!

Not as honoured as me that someone, somewhere was counting :pac:

NIMAN

Didn't I read once that Gandhi was a bit of a cnut too?

Laois_Man

Weird that this popped up. I was only telling someone today how I'm a huge fan of his music but how I think he was a ****in eegit .

But his assassination is one of my earliest memories despite not really knowing who he was at the time. Hard to believe it was 34 years ago next Monday..

4zn76tysfajdxp

People knock his character all the time, but what we should really focus on is the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asf4InKVo8k

Jake Rugby Walrus666

Julian Lennon ahead of his time with the environment and end of the world and allthat 'Salt Water' - good song (if a little cheesy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql1EnjVYrZM

Tail Docker

Ringo was a bit of a trial too.

The Diabolical Monocle

Macavity. wrote: »

Why is it that John Lennon is universally regarded as a saint? His unsavory actions seem to be ignored, or rather are just unknown?

The man is regarded as a humanitarian, yet beat two of his wives. Lennon is known to have emotionally abused his own son, Julian. A maid recalls how after his son once chuckled he responded by saying “I hate the way you fucking laugh!”. Julian was not even a teenager at the time.

My sweet lord !!

Son Of A Vidic

Macavity. wrote: »

Why is it that John Lennon is universally regarded as a saint?

If anything, it's probably safer to say he isn't universally regarded as a saint.

Macavity.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

If anything, it's probably safer to say he isn't universally regarded as a saint.

He seems to be by quite a lot of people.

DEFTLEFTHAND

NIMAN wrote: »

Didn't I read once that Gandhi was a bit of a cnut too?

Wasn't too fond of blacks or kaffirs as he called them.

Son Of A Vidic

Macavity. wrote: »

He seems to be by quite a lot of people.

A lot of people where?

Macavity.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

A lot of people where?

Throughout the world?

Son Of A Vidic

Macavity. wrote: »

Throughout the world?

So you conducted a worldwide poll, fair play. Any links/data to back this up?

Don Kedick

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Ah here. That's going too far now.

Ah most of it was crap.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Don Kedick wrote: »

Ah most of it was crap.

In your opinion.

porsche boy

in no way am I condoning any actions but is this not a bit of judging his actions by todays standards??? your talking about stuff that happened in the sixties & seventies. Again, not condoning anything the the OP or other posters alleged.

Filmer Paradise

Don Kedick wrote: »

Ah most of it was crap.

Must-not-feed-the-Troll.

Yer not even good at it! Away now.

Jog on.

cynicalcough

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

My sweet lord !!

wrong beatle

Don Kedick

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

In your opinion.

My opinion is solid.

Venus In Furs

I agree with Macavity. There seems to be far more adulation for - fawning at times - Lennon than a lack of respect for him due to his publicised unpleasant side outside of his music.
He's not the only artist to whom that applies though. I don't have an issue tbh with a deep admiration for someone based on their talents however. It doesn't necessarily mean lack of acknowledgement that they are/were a **** if applicable.

Macavity.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

So you conducted a worldwide poll, fair play. Any links/data to back this up?

I haven't conducted a worldwide poll, no. Is that the prerequisite for starting a thread these days?

If you talk to people about The Beatles they will often speak of Lennon's humanitarian efforts. Not to mention, merely typing his name into Google brings up results such as the following.

http://listverse.com/2012/05/20/top-10-reasons-to-admire-john-lennon/

Don Kedick

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Must-not-feed-the-Troll.

Yer not even good at it! Away now.

Jog on.

I think his music stank, apart from The Luck of the Irish. That's not trolling and it's frowned upon to be calling someone a troll. I wont report you however, hopefully you appreciate this kind gesture.

Venus In Furs

Couldn't judging by today's standards be applied to anything unsavoury from the past? I don't know that that's of relevance. The stuff he did wasn't acceptable then either.

gctest50

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

...... If nothing else, he wrote the song 'In my life' at 24 years old. Imagine that!

indeed, and droned on and on through many more

Filmer Paradise

Don Kedick wrote: »

I think his music stank, apart from The Luck of the Irish. That's not trolling and it's frowned upon to be calling someone a troll. I wont report you however, hopefully you appreciate this kind gesture.

Okay. In 100 words give us a narrative on the merits of 'The Luck of the Irish' & it's place in the history of popular music.

What with your undoubted intelligence & enthusiasm for this tune, this should be no trouble whatsoever for your goodself.

Off you go...

Son Of A Vidic

Macavity. wrote: »

I haven't conducted a worldwide poll, no. Is that the prerequisite for starting a thread these days?

Generally, when making sweeping pronunciations like this....

Macavity. wrote: »

Why is it that John Lennon is universally regarded as a saint?

Then you should be prepared to back it up. I asked you for evidence of this universal sainthood, evidence which you failed to provide. So maybe it would be prudent to tone down such an overly ambitious pronunciation of his sainthood. A peace activist, an icon, a talented musician. Yes these are just some of the labels people put on him. But universal sainthood? Well that's probably just stretching it a bit.

Macavity.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Generally, when making sweeping pronunciations like this....



Then you should be prepared to back it up. I asked you for evidence of this universal sainthood, evidence which you failed to provide. So maybe it would be prudent to tone down such an overly ambitious pronunciation of his sainthood. A peace activist, an icon, a talented musician. Yes these are just some of the labels people put on him. But universal sainthood? Well that's probably just stretching it a bit.

Meh. I'm not concerned with pedants such as yourself, if I'm honest. If you want to get fussy over one line then go ahead. The main body of my post remains true.

Venus In Furs

Folks, stop bickering - give peace a chance!

GerB40

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Folks, stop bickering - give peace a chance!

Or ye'll get the back of the fúckin hand...

The other fella

A flawed genius.The best kind of genius.

Filmer Paradise

Venus In Furs wrote: »

I agree with Macavity. There seems to be far more adulation for - fawning at times - Lennon than a lack of respect for him due to his publicised unpleasant side outside of his music.
He's not the only artist to whom that applies though. I don't have an issue tbh with a deep admiration for someone based on their talents however. It doesn't necessarily mean lack of acknowledgement that they are/were a **** if applicable.

I'm a Beatles fan & love their music.

Of course I'm not blind to the faults of the individual members of the band.

Everything in the OP is true. John Lennon was no saint & I don't see anybody on this thread saying that he is/was.

I always felt sorry for Paul after John's death. There were jibes like 'they shot the wrong Beatle' & all that guff.

How can you compete against a Ghost?

Paul got old & sometimes made a fool of himself, all in the public gaze, whereas John remained 'forever young' & about to make the 'great comeback'.

Molester Stallone II

Lennon was a piece of sh1t who happened to write good music, think anyone over 30 kinda knew that anyway

The other fella

He must have been knee deep in free loving hippie chicks 24/7.

Son Of A Vidic

Macavity. wrote: »

Meh. I'm not concerned with pedants such as yourself, if I'm honest. If you want to get fussy over one line then go ahead. The main body of my post remains true.

You made a claim you could not substantiate. So it's probably just best to speak for yourself and avoid making a sweeping generalisation on behalf of us all.