Beepbeep.ie electric car stats

noelf

Nissan leaf sales 2014 188 2013 43

Bmw I3 2014 17 2013 1

Renault Zoe 2014 10

Renault Twizy 4

Volkswagen eGolf 2

According to http://www.beepbeep.ie that is a 344 .9 percent increase in sales over 2013 and used imports for the Nissan Leaf in 2014 is 48 in 2013 12 were imported ..

colm_mcm

How many of those are demos/bought by ESB I wonder?

I wouldn't say that many at all, they don't have to buy new ones for the "ambassadors" each time.

The Leaf will suit a lot of people and I think more and more people are starting to realise that electrics will work. Then there are people that see their friends, neighbours etc with a leaf/Zoe and if they're happy with it they'll say so and it may make non ev owners want one.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't say that many at all, they don't have to buy new ones for the "ambassadors" each time.

The Leaf will suit a lot of people and I think more and more people are starting to realise that electrics will work. Then there are people that see their friends, neighbours etc with a leaf/Zoe and if they're happy with it they'll say so and it may make non ev owners want one.

The very cheap price of petrol must be a concern re the sales of EV?

reboot

reboot wrote: »

The very cheap price of petrol must be a concern re the sales of EV?

Very cheap price of petrol ? Where ?

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

Very cheap price of petrol ? Where ?

I guess its relative to this time last year when I disposed of a fab Mazda rx8 with 45k miles for £1k. It was doing 20 something to the gallon. Petrol up here was £1.40 ish now its £1.20.

fricatus

Deleted User wrote: »

Very cheap price of petrol ? Where ?

Oil prices are falling heavily. Around $65 per barrel of crude now compared to $100 earlier in the year. Here's an article about it:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/how-falling-oil-prices-might-lubricate-global-markets-1.2023181?page=1

Of course that doesn't translate immediately into petrol/diesel prices, for a number of reasons: the purchase price paid for current stocks, the lead time from oil well through refinery to pumps, taxes, etc. As the saying goes, petrol/diesel prices rise like a rocket with the oil price, but fall like a feather.

Prices are definitely likely to fall (albeit slowly) over the next year, and I've seen a number of articles in the business press about how that's going to adversely affect investment in green technologies.

However once the Saudis have put enough marginal wells and shale oil facilities out of business, they will probably put the squeeze on as they've done before - so in the really long term, we're still better off trying to cut our use of fossil fuels!

SpaceTime

OPEC - Giving a big two finger salute to competition law since 1960!

noelf

The Nissan leaf sold 2687 in November in the U S it's 22 nd straight month of sales increases . Its total sales for this year in the states is 27098 and since sales began in 2010 69220 not to shabby ! The e-Golf sold 119 in it's first month ...

Oil prices are falling but we've been through this before, it will go up again.

Cheaper oil prices do not always mean cheaper fuel prices at the pump, it depends on the demand for petrol and diesel also.

Also the U.S Dollar is getting stronger and one reason prices haven't fallen that much.

Even if prices fall further at the pumps electrics are still a hell of a lot cheaper to run. Cheaper prices are not always what's going to make people buy electric, there are many people who have 0 interest in cars, I know many and just see them as tools to get from a-b and nothing more the ice car can be got a lot cheaper 2nd hand because electrics are still pretty new and there are not many models to choose.

reboot

noelf wrote: »

The Nissan leaf sold 2687 in November in the U S it's 22 nd straight month of sales increases . Its total sales for this year in the states is 27098 and since sales began in 2010 69220 not to shabby ! The e-Golf sold 119 in it's first month ...

Interesting comments from a scientist on BBC "Today Prog" just this morning re building new schools in England away from the pollution of motorways, I heard nothing of switching to EV, but a suggestion away from Diesel back to Petrol?

I'd say there will Be more plug ins sold. Most people with plugins want more range and eventually go full electric.

reboot

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say there will Be more plug ins sold. Most people with plugins want more range and eventually go full electric.

Do you think an Ice driver looking to change his car , and going into the winter as forecast would take a chance on an EV?

gctest50

reboot wrote: »

Do you think an Ice driver looking to change his car , and going into the winter as forecast would take a chance on an EV?

be grand, no bears here to eat you :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqumtF4Fq8

What the video didn't show is the % battery which matters more than the guess O meter.

And I don't think we have to worry about -20 degrees in Ireland, probably -5 average max, but day time Irish temps rarely go below 0.

The Kia soul has a battery heater so the only thing really is the heater to reduce range but it won;t matter nearly as much as a cold battery.

NIMAN

I think if the likes of Golfs, Focus, Fiesta, Polo etc were available as hybrid, with a backup petrol engine they would sell a mountain of them.

The loss of range anxiety would help sales big time, imho.

reboot

gctest50, I can't speak to the Leaf display, but the Zoe does not appear to register the load on the 12 v system, which as we know is charged from the 440v line.In other words as I drive along looking at "Direct Consumption" in Kw, there is no increase in consumption as far as I can see when those devices operating from the 12 v supply are engaged. Could this lack of monitoring of this, explain the loss of range on your video. As you know the 12v system is now getting much more use than in Summer. Just a thought.

noelf

January sales 2015
Nissan leaf 105
Renault zoe 8
Bmw i3 4
Vw egolf 1
5 nissan leafs imported.. the egolf has bombed too expensive why would you buy one over a leaf sve ..

dloob

noelf wrote: »

January sales 2015
Nissan leaf 105
Renault zoe 8
Bmw i3 4
Vw egolf 1
5 nissan leafs imported.. the egolf has bombed too expensive why would you buy one over a leaf sve ..

Not much love for the Zoe either it seems.

Zoe is too expensive compared to the Leaf when you add in battery lease, for me anyway doing higher miles.

Zoe isn't a bad car at all but it's too slow but still leaps and bounds better than any typical underpowered petrol or diesel Renault would normally stick in such a car.

Joe Doe

Electrics would be ideal for e-Motorbikes, as only have to propel around 100kg of vehicle.

The future or cars is more likely Hydrogen (only using new safe compressed hydrogen storage discs)

Some open patents available: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30691393
Interesting specs: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29459999

Toyota's FCV Sedan
Front-wheel drive, four doors, four seats
Fuel cell, two hydrogen tanks and battery fitted under the floor
Can be refuelled in 3 minutes
Max cruising range: 700km (430 miles)
Max speed: 170km/h (105mph)

By the time a hydrogen infrastructure could be built battery cars will be good enough to make hydrogen cars pointless.

Just next year will see the Chevy Bolt with a claimed 200 miles range. Leaf II will be out at the end of 2017. There will be more electrics then too.

We already have an electrical infrastructure at home and could easily charge up 200 miles range in a night. Fast chargers need to get faster but that will come in time.

Hydrogen cars are far too expensive. Batteries are also expensive but as they become cheaper you can build bigger batteries as cost comes down.

Currently, making hydrogen is extremely wasteful process and this extra energy would be currently much more efficiently used by charging batteries.

The Tesla Model S 85 Kwh already proves there is no need for Hydrogen cars.

cros13

Big big increase in i3 sales this year due to the production increase and an increased production allocation for RHD units.

January and February so far will exceed last years total.

I'm picking up mine this evening

dloob

cros13 wrote: »

Big big increase in i3 sales this year due to the production increase and an increased production allocation for RHD units.

January and February so far will exceed last years total.

I'm picking up mine this evening

Be interesting to see how the i3 does.
Did you get the REX or pure electric?
I'm also keeping an eye on the Audi A3 etron, not many PHEV in the Irish market.
I have a diesel A3 PCP ending the end of this year, so I'm wondering what to go for next.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Big big increase in i3 sales this year due to the production increase and an increased production allocation for RHD units.

January and February so far will exceed last years total.

I'm picking up mine this evening

Good stuff, nice car but far too expensive for me for no range benefit.

Hope you know the I3 does not come with the much more efficient heat pump or battery heater as standard ?

Some really cool but very expensive options on the I3.

Good to see another EV going to hit the streets !

cros13

dloob wrote: »

Be interesting to see how the i3 does.
Did you get the REX or pure electric?

Went for the REx.

Deleted User wrote: »

Good stuff, nice car but far too expensive for me for no range benefit.

Hope you know the I3 does not come with the much more efficient heat pump or battery heater as standard ?

Some really cool but very expensive options on the I3.

Good to see another EV going to hit the streets !

Got all the options (bar the eDrive noise, who would pay for that?). The REx has no heat pump, however the battery heater/cooling flaps are standard. The battery heater pad tends to keep the cabin warm as well, I think the cabin is better insulated too, I'm using the heater a hell of lot less than on my Mk2 Leaf.

Average range in this weather on the i3 at motorway speed is about 120km, and range in town is drastically better due to the heavier regen. I've seen 20km ABOVE the quoted 160km eDrive range on the REx range for driving in the city.

Very happy that I went with the REx. The CCS chargers are not very reliable. Blanchardstown is the only one I've had no trouble with (in about 10 charges). On the way down to Tipp last week, Naas, Portlaoise and Roscrea rapids all failed me.
Yesterday the rapid at portlaoise locked the charge connector, refused to charge, refused to release the lock on the car side, failed to respond to commands from the call center and I finally had to do a manual release of the lock on the car side.
Got to Roscrea and it gave me 0.11kWh before I got "Charger Fault".

reboot

reboot wrote: »

Do you think an Ice driver looking to change his car , and going into the winter as forecast would take a chance on an EV?

I don't think many ICE owners want electrics or hybrids to begin with.

I went fully EV but I wouldn't have bought a plug in and I wouldn't have bought the Leaf if it would have been our only car. I drive about 85 miles per day which isn't small mileage. I do have to fast charge over lunch and that suits me fine to get out from work, 15-20 mins while the weather is colder it takes a bit longer to charge and then all I have to do after work is hop in and drive home rather than fast charge on the way home.

Plug ins are too expensive, EV are as cheap or in some instances cheaper to buy and much cheaper to run. I can't see too many plug ins being sold, I bet more full battery electrics will be sold due to most people realising that they don't need 400 miles range for their daily needs and can live with fast charging for longer trips. All we need now are more fast chargers on one site.

I think once the range hits the 150-200 mile barrier and is cheap enough to buy then a lot more people might be interested.

There is nobody working on a solution for people who live in apartments to charge and management agencies are not known for being easy to approach.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Got all the options (bar the eDrive noise, who would pay for that?). The REx has no heat pump, however the battery heater/cooling flaps are standard. The battery heater pad tends to keep the cabin warm as well, I think the cabin is better insulated too, I'm using the heater a hell of lot less than on my Mk2 Leaf.

Last time I checked the specs the battery heater was not included as standard ? maybe standard on your trim ?

That's one wickedly expensive EV if you got all the options, approaching 50K ?

cros13 wrote: »

Average range in this weather on the i3 at motorway speed is about 120km, and range in town is drastically better due to the heavier regen. I've seen 20km ABOVE the quoted 160km eDrive range on the REx range for driving in the city.

The range in town is much better because you're not driving at speed which kills range due to wind resistance.

cros13 wrote: »

Very happy that I went with the REx. The CCS chargers are not very reliable. Blanchardstown is the only one I've had no trouble with (in about 10 charges). On the way down to Tipp last week, Naas, Portlaoise and Roscrea rapids all failed me.
Yesterday the rapid at portlaoise locked the charge connector, refused to charge, refused to release the lock on the car side, failed to respond to commands from the call center and I finally had to do a manual release of the lock on the car side.
Got to Roscrea and it gave me 0.11kWh before I got "Charger Fault".

I'm sure the Rex has paid off already due to the problems with the chargers, that's a shame but I'm sure they will sort it out.

If it's your only car I could see the benefit in the Rex but for me I wouldn't want it for the 5% or so of the time I'd use it. We can just use my partners car for the really long trips and to keep the miles off the Leaf for the contract.

I've no doubt the interior quality and gadgets justify the price and it should be a lot of fun due to having 170 Hp, that's about 65 more than the Leaf and the Leaf is heavier.

You should do a full review with pics !

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Last time I checked the specs the battery heater was not included as standard ? maybe standard on your trim ?

My unit was part of a new production spec, seat heaters, and the rest of the winter pack (inc battery heater) are now standard in all i3s produced since December. They also include the new redesigned KLE (charger) that doesn't overheat in very warm climates.

Deleted User wrote: »

That's one wickedly expensive EV if you got all the options, approaching 50K ?

Certainly not a money-saving exercise...

Deleted User wrote: »

The range in town is much better because you're not driving at speed which kills range due to wind resistance.

Aerodynamics are certainly part of it. But looking at the data from OBD I'm getting way more energy back from regen. than on the leaf. Up to 20% of my city range. The removal of creep on the i3 is a big factor in this as well.

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's your only car I could see the benefit in the Rex but for me I wouldn't want it for the 5% or so of the time I'd use it. We can just use my partners car for the really long trips and to keep the miles off the Leaf for the contract.

Yup I've replaced a Leaf + ICE setup with the i3 REx. It's my only vehicle and I do up to 5000km a month.

Deleted User wrote: »

You should do a full review with pics !

Planning on it!

Deleted User wrote: »

There is nobody working on a solution for people who live in apartments to charge and management agencies are not known for being easy to approach.

ESB is working on a standardised install for apartments. However, I know of two companies handling charger installation in apartment car parks in Dublin. They both have good relationships with many of the management companies (in fact they also have existing contracts with some for other electrical work.). I got my own 7.6kW installed last year. Very handy for the i3 (charges 0-100% in 3 hours). If anyone wants contact details drop me a PM.



And the new hotness:

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

My unit was part of a new production spec, seat heaters, and the rest of the winter pack (inc battery heater) are now standard in all i3s produced since December. They also include the new redesigned KLE (charger) that doesn't overheat in very warm climates.

Good stuff, glad to see more standard kit !

cros13 wrote: »

Aerodynamics are certainly part of it. But looking at the data from OBD I'm getting way more energy back from regen. than on the leaf. Up to 20% of my city range. The removal of creep on the i3 is a big factor in this as well.

Aerodynamics are a major part, I'm not sure how the I3 could capture more regen than the leaf in town ? Certainly when you're on the open road and brake then the Leaf can only regen about 30Kw to the battery which is way more than enough to slow you down in town driving. It can pull 80 Kw. One reason Nissan limit the regen is due to battery heating.

What are you using to get the OBD data ? is there a leaf spy equivalent for the I3 ?

More data on regen would be useful and if you do have some way of reading the OBD data to know how hot the battery gets with fast charging or better yet, multiple fast charging.

cros13 wrote: »

ESB is working on a standardised install for apartments. However, I know of two companies handling charger installation in apartment car parks in Dublin. They both have good relationships with many of the management companies (in fact they also have existing contracts with some for other electrical work.). I got my own 7.6kW installed last year. Very handy for the i3 (charges 0-100% in 3 hours). If anyone wants contact details drop me a PM.

This is interesting and very good to know it can be done in apartments.

Does the EVSe not have to be wired all the way back to your consumer unit ? how could they calculate your electricity consumption if not ?

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Aerodynamics are a major part, I'm not sure how the I3 could capture more regen than the leaf in town ? Certainly when you're on the open road and brake then the Leaf can only regen about 30Kw to the battery which is way more than enough to slow you down in town driving. It can pull 80 Kw. One reason Nissan limit the regen is due to battery heating.

Max Regen on the i3 is 50kW and regen stays on full until you you come to a stop, on the leaf the regen tapers off until you go into creep. If you are stopped at the lights in the leaf you generally have the brake depressed and the motor is still in creep pushing against the brake.

The battery layout is very different to the leaf, there are eight battery modules with an individual charge controller and 12 samsung wrapped Li cells per module. For battery cooling there are cooling channels through the pack with motorised flaps controlling air intake.

In my opinion the i3's battery architecture is the most advanced of any EV. There is no reason the battery itself couldn't handle 150kW DC fast charging. The modular setup allows easy replacement of a module without cell balancing problems. I'd be very surprised if the next i models from BMW aren't just the same design of module with more modules in the pack.

Deleted User wrote: »

What are you using to get the OBD data ? is there a leaf spy equivalent for the I3 ?

I'm pulling data using my own scripts and pyOBD on archlinux.

Deleted User wrote: »

More data on regen would be useful and if you do have some way of reading the OBD data to know how hot the battery gets with fast charging or better yet, multiple fast charging.

Haven't managed to get accurate temperature data yet.

Deleted User wrote: »

Does the EVSe not have to be wired all the way back to your consumer unit ? how could they calculate your electricity consumption if not ?

Nope. That's Carra and ESB eCar's party line but it's not required in most cases. If your meters are in a central location there is normally an isolator after the meter to allow isolation of the cable run to the distribution board. That is as good a place as any to split the power for your charger. Just make sure you have another isolator for the cable run to the charger and that your charger has an inbuilt RCBO for safety.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Max Regen on the i3 is 50kW and regen stays on full until you you come to a stop, on the leaf the regen tapers off until you go into creep. If you are stopped at the lights in the leaf you generally have the brake depressed and the motor is still in creep pushing against the brake.

There is no power dray from my leaf when my foot is on the brake.

I like the tapering off of regen imo it would to me not feel good having full regen until you come to a stop.

The Leaf has variable regen via the brake pedal which I also think is much better, based on the position of the brake pedal.

30 Kw is plenty to slow the leaf down and I often find I don't even need 30 Kw to slow down to a stop. I think I'd have to be driving pretty aggressively to need 30 Kw to bring me to a stop all the time never mind 50 Kw.

I think what would make a difference a lot more than regen is the lighter weight over the Leaf in town with all the stop start traffic.

cros13 wrote: »

The battery layout is very different to the leaf, there are eight battery modules with an individual charge controller and 12 samsung wrapped Li cells per module. For battery cooling there are cooling channels through the pack with motorised flaps controlling air intake.

yes the battery layout is a lot better than the leaf because the I3 was designed to be an EV the Leaf was more of an ice conversion.

BMW could have still fit several more Kwh in the I3 there is a lot of wasted space. And a giant hole where the ice should be if you didn't opt for the Rex version.

If your calculations are correct and the I3 really does generate 50 Kw regen ( (or is there a read out on the dash ?) then it's a good indicator that the battery won't warm up like the leaf battery. Taking 150 Kw I highly doubt it.

cros13 wrote: »

In my opinion the i3's battery architecture is the most advanced of any EV. There is no reason the battery itself couldn't handle 150kW DC fast charging. The modular setup allows easy replacement of a module without cell balancing problems. I'd be very surprised if the next i models from BMW aren't just the same design of module with more modules in the pack.

Tesla imo has the most advanced battery pack, but it is a lot more complex due to the cooling system.

I highly doubt the I3 battery could take 150 Kw because it's far too small, and I have not yet heard of any auto spicific battery cell that can take a 7C charge rate. Not even the tesla cells can take that but because the battery is so big it allows them to charge the whole pack at 120 Kw and even then they need to cool it. So I couldn't imagine the tiny I3 pack charging at 150 Kw without at the very least liquid cooling even at that I would doubt it. And even if it could it will be many years before we see 150 Kw DC chargers around Ireland or Europe.

BMW should have built a 3 or 5 series with a 85 kwh battery like Tesla, though they would be far better off buying the complete battery from Tesla altogether because it would probably be much cheaper than BMW using automotive specific cells which are usually a lot more expensive.

I wish BMW would have offered a larger pack for those who didn't want the Rex but I suppose it's a lot to do with cost.

cros13 wrote: »

I'm pulling data using my own scripts and pyOBD on archlinux.

Interesting, how did you figure out what the data from the OBD II meant ?

cros13 wrote: »

Haven't managed to get accurate temperature data yet.

This would be the most interesting thing of all. Please share this with the EV community if you do figure it out.

cros13 wrote: »

Nope. That's Carra and ESB eCar's party line but it's not required in most cases. If your meters are in a central location there is normally an isolator after the meter to allow isolation of the cable run to the distribution board. That is as good a place as any to split the power for your charger. Just make sure you have another isolator for the cable run to the charger and that your charger has an inbuilt RCBO for safety.

Not sure I really get this ? so it doesn't have to come from the consumer unit ?

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

BMW could have still fit several more Kwh in the I3 there is a lot of wasted space. And a giant hole where the ice should be if you didn't opt for the Rex version.

Agreed, I'm reasonably sure they could have fitted another battery module in that space. However the effort involved in testing it and then adding a another production line for the additional pack wouldn't have been worth the 20-25km of range it would have added.

Deleted User wrote: »

I highly doubt the I3 battery could take 150 Kw because it's far too small, and I have not yet heard of any auto spicific battery cell that can take a 7C charge rate. Not even the tesla cells can take that but because the battery is so big it allows them to charge the whole pack at 120 Kw and even then they need to cool it. So I couldn't imagine the tiny I3 pack charging at 150 Kw without at the very least liquid cooling even at that I would doubt it. And even if it could it will be many years before we see 150 Kw DC chargers around Ireland or Europe.

Not saying there's any point to 150kw chargers. In fact I think 25 kw DC chargers like the one bmw/vw are deploying in the US might be the way forward (sub-€5,000 price). BTW the cells in the i3 CAN charge at 7C for short periods, sustained rate is 4C. AND during rapid charging there is liquid cooling of the pack.

Deleted User wrote: »

I wish BMW would have offered a larger pack for those who didn't want the Rex but I suppose it's a lot to do with cost.

Original design was a series hybrid. The only reason the BEV exists is state subsidies in europe and additional CARB credits in the states.

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting, how did you figure out what the data from the OBD II meant ?

The idrive system basically had a cheat sheet sitting on the disk. It runs essentially forked redhat linux on an intel automotive platform under the rear seat (and has full access to the canbus). The idrive system displays a lot of the stuff I wanted so it was the first place i looked. Heck, there is OBD to ethernet so you can even SSH in.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure I really get this ? so it doesn't have to come from the consumer unit ?

Correct:

meter

|

isolator ---> RCBO ---> Charger

|

cable run to apt

|

distribution board

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Agreed, I'm reasonably sure they could have fitted another battery module in that space. However the effort involved in testing it and then adding a another production line for the additional pack wouldn't have been worth the 20-25km of range it would have added.

I think they could have easily fit another 50 Kms range in that whole chassis ! That would have, imo justified it's higher price tag.

cros13 wrote: »

Not saying there's any point to 150kw chargers. In fact I think 25 kw DC chargers like the one bmw/vw are deploying in the US might be the way forward (sub-€5,000 price). BTW the cells in the i3 CAN charge at 7C for short periods, sustained rate is 4C. AND during rapid charging there is liquid cooling of the pack.

Yes, I just read the I3 has liquid cooling, I thought it didn't this is really good though adds to cost. But it would mean you can fast charge all day !

Do you have any cell data to confirm the cells can charge at 4C ? I can;t find any cell data. 4C would be around 96 Kw from a fast charger at 400 volts and around 60 ah battery capacity with a nominal voltage of 360 volts.

Kia are installing 100KW ChaDeMo chargers in Europe. I would image if the I3 could take around 100 Kw they wouldn't be quiet about it.

I believe faster charging is more important than more than a 200 mile range battery, if you got a real 200 miles range then I think this is enough if you can super charge. No point carrying around a huge battery for a few times you need more than 200 miles range.

cros13 wrote: »

The idrive system basically had a cheat sheet sitting on the disk. It runs essentially forked redhat linux on an intel automotive platform under the rear seat (and has full access to the canbus). The idrive system displays a lot of the stuff I wanted so it was the first place i looked. Heck, there is OBD to ethernet so you can even SSH in.

This is pretty cool, are you an automotive technician ?

It would be interesting if you could find data on fast charging, such as how long it will pull the full 50Kw and at 50% charge how much it will be pulling from the charger. Unfortunately the Leaf battery takes a lot longer to charge from cold. But this may be the same for an I3 without battery heater or if it does have the battery heater when it's not been plugged in it may not be able to warm the battery ?

cros13

Thought this thread might need an update.

February:

Nissan Leaf: 38
Nissan eNV200: 1
Renault Zoe: 3
BMW i3: 8
BMW i8: 1
Tesla Model S: 2
Volkswagen eGolf: 6
Volkswagen Golf GTE: 20
Mitsubishi I-miev: 0
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV: 1

March:

Nissan Leaf: 78
Nissan eNV200: 1
Renault Zoe: 4
BMW i3: 1
BMW i8: 0
Tesla Model S: not reported yet
Volkswagen eGolf: 3
Volkswagen Golf GTE: 23
Mitsubishi I-miev: 0
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV: 7


BMW's sales are deliveries, both the i3 and i8 have several months waiting list and deliveries tend to spike the month after a RHD production week.

Nissan has a waiting list at the moment for the eNV200 as production is still spooling up.

Renault has sold at least one Twizy this year but it's not reflected in the statistics. At least one Ampera was imported.

Audi A3 eTron, Volvo V60 and XC90 PHEV sales can't be separated from the petrol versions. Sales are rumored to be 20% PHEV.

colm_mcm

There seem to be only 2 xc90s regged so far this year, both being band f emissions, so not phev
With the v60, 19 are 1.6 diesel, and 12 are 2.0 diesel, so no phev (which is 2.4)
There's 1 a3 1.4 showing as "engine unknown" in the stats.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Audi A3 eTron, Volvo V60 and XC90 PHEV sales can't be separated from the petrol versions. Sales are rumored to be 20% PHEV.

The Golf GTE is a plug in also.

NIMAN

I saw an old Top Gear program on one of the satellite channels the other day, when Clarkson and May took 2 EVs on a day trip to Brighton.

JC was in the Leaf and May in a smaller one, cant remember the brand now.

Anyway, there would be no sales of EVs based on their piece, they DESTROYED them.

Yeah but everyone knows Top gear is a comedy really.

I've nearly 5,500 miles on the leaf since 24th Jan 15. That's not too bad if you ask me.

NIMAN

Don't get me wrong MadLad, wasn't saying they were right, I despise the show and find it dull as dishwater.

But I would say it has a lot of influence, and their slating of 2 perfectly good EVs would have seriously damaged potential sales. People would probably have bought another car reviewed on the series, like maybe a Ferrari, Porsche, Bugati or McLaren.

TBH there is a general lack of public interest/knowledge in electrics, all people know is petrol and diesel and couldn't care less about electric.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

The Golf GTE is a plug in also.

Yes, but it's the only 1.4L in the Golf model range, so I used the 1.4 numbers as a proxy for the GTE sales.

nokia69

NIMAN wrote: »

Don't get me wrong MadLad, wasn't saying they were right, I despise the show and find it dull as dishwater.

But I would say it has a lot of influence, and their slating of 2 perfectly good EVs would have seriously damaged potential sales. People would probably have bought another car reviewed on the series, like maybe a Ferrari, Porsche, Bugati or McLaren.

they do have influence but not as much as you might think

its not the first time they did a hatchet job on electric cars and I doubt it will be the last

but it doesn't really matter, the future is electric and they can't stop it now

The Future is electric but due to range fears people won;t buy them unless they have 300-500 miles range, even though they only do what, 10-50 miles a day ? I do 90 odd miles in the Leaf per shift.

So the public want 300-500 miles range ? good lick charging that !!! 1 MW of power, yeah right !

So say you have a 100 kwh battery and the fastest fast charger is 50 kw, do the maths. But not only that, the charge rate slows gradually as the charge rises so it will take longer than 2 hrs .

Charging at home on single phase even at 6.6 kw or 32 amps would take 16 + hrs.

faster charging of a 200 mile range battery or roughly 60 Kwh would be ideal. 60 kwh should give around 240 ish miles range.

On the other hand because most people on the planet don't drive 300-500 miles in a week never mind a day then I suppose the car could trickle charge over a few nights to fill a 100 Kwh battery but it does seem like a huge waste of natural resources for the occasional long journey!!!

nokia69

I think a large number of drivers will be happy with 200 miles and fast chargers

when that happens we will see electric cars every where

I'm not so sure, you see people are still willing to drive petrol and there are people who will never give up diesel no matter what and those fortunate enough not to have to drive as many miles as I can still well afford petrol/diesel.

There is a lack of interest in electrics. I feel they won't really take off until the car companies themselves start producing less ice cars.

The death of Diesel is already being signaled throughout mainland Europe and Britain because it's finally being realised that promoting diesels the way they did was a huge mistake for the environment and human health.

Stonewolf

Sorry for bombing in on your thread (I'm sure you don't get that much from ICE drivers ) but I wanted to point out that rediculous range isn't actually the big issue, rather the conditions that the range can be achived with.

I had a conversation with an American the other day where he said EVs were already as good as they needed to be because Tesla claim 270mi and normal (he's an American, remember) cars can only do about 300ish anyway. He refused to believe the stats I quoted him for Euro cars.

I'd like to agree with him and I think electrics certainly are the future but from my perspective they're not there yet and it's not a matter of raw range as demonstrated by the above example.

I don't commute by car, I use a combo of walking, running and getting the train. I largely used (have just sold it as I'm emmigrating) it for motorway work and some light off-road, often going to events with friends. This is the sort of occasional drive that people with "range anxiety" worry about. Tootling along at 80kmh and stopping for a meal somewhere halfway would be totally unacceptable to someone like me and judging by the rest of the traffic I drove in I would wager most people too.

My requirements for an EV to be desirable (leaving aside build quality and spec) would be 480km based on a 4 hour 120kmh cruise with 4 adults in the car, a full load of luggage and the aircon on using an 80% charge achievable in 30 minutes. This isn't hugely beyond what I see as current technology but it is beyond it (even for Model S). The speed and time details are based on a motorway journey with a 3-3.5 hour stop strategy. 80% charge in 30 minutes is based on time taken to fast charge while having a quick meal during those stops. The loading is based on my own usage (actually, this would be a step down from my Disco but that had abnormal capability in this regard).

Basically, it's not about raw range for me, it has to be able to tackle my real world scenario, my old car could do 800km under such conditions which is far more than I actually needed, I wouldn't have missed the extra capability. Saying that people can have a second car to meet these needs is also hugely impractical given the fixed costs of car ownership and the price of renting a car acts as a barrier to people using them for quick trips. EVs have short range city driving nailed but in order to really get people out of their ICE cars they don't necessarily need to equal the range but they do need to be capable of matching the use case.

If I could find an EV that could do that, satisfy my snobbish tastes in trim/spec and come in at an appropriate price I'd buy it.

As an aside, someone mentioned a 100kg bike on this thread, my 600 (a midsize bike) was 225kg, not underminding your point but a bit of fact checking would be good.

cros13

Stonewolf wrote: »

Sorry for bombing in on your thread (I'm sure you don't get that much from ICE drivers

All are welcome.

Stonewolf wrote: »

I don't commute by car, I use a combo of walking, running and getting the train. I largely used (have just sold it as I'm emmigrating) it for motorway work and some light off-road, often going to events with friends.

I have similar usage patterns. I have my car for mainly the odd trip around town and weekend journeys to the midlands and west coast. Went down to Galway last weekend. I own a very expensive EV (more than €55k), I bought it because it's more fun to drive than an ICE and I like the technology. It's also a plus that my running costs are 8-10 times lower and I can give an M3 or 911 a good run in a drag race.

I'm driving to London the end of June and doing a 4500km round trip to Berlin in August.

Stonewolf wrote: »

This is the sort of occasional drive that people with "range anxiety" worry about.

Range Anxiety seems to be something suffered mainly by people who don't own EVs. I know where my destination is and I know where the chargers along the route are. If I spontaneously want to take a trip to Tipperary and my battery is almost empty I either know where the nearest rapid charger is or I can look it up on the nav/phone and I'm back on the road in 15 minutes with 80% on the battery.

Stonewolf wrote: »

Tootling along at 80kmh and stopping for a meal somewhere halfway would be totally unacceptable to someone like me and judging by the rest of the traffic I drove in I would wager most people too.

Dunno.. I occasionally take a pi** or want a cup of coffee. That's a 15 minute charge. I learned my motorway driving on the autobahn, if I'm doing 80km/h it's because someone's in the way.

Stonewolf wrote: »

My requirements for an EV to be desirable (leaving aside build quality and spec) would be 480km based on a 4 hour 120kmh cruise with 4 adults in the car, a full load of luggage and the aircon on using an 80% charge achievable in 30 minutes.

O.o Nobody in Ireland does 480km without stopping for a toilet break, a soda or something to eat. EVs are not a perfect fit for your use yet, but they do already meet 95% of the needs of 95% of the drivers on the road. In the next 2 years EVs will hit the road with a 30-40% increase in battery density, at that point a model S with the same number of cells as the current S 85 would meet your range requirement.

The model S 85D (quoted mixed cycle range 505km) will use 300Wh/km at 120km/h with four 100kg passengers and aircon, giving a comfortable range of just over 300km. A 20 minute stop is sufficient time on a supercharger to give you another 180km of range before your next stop.

My car is a little more efficient but has a much smaller 22kWh battery. At 130-135km/h I stop every 120km or so to charge, leaving just enough to get to the next charger. I average 16-17 minutes for a rapid charge to 85%.

Stonewolf wrote: »

Basically, it's not about raw range for me, it has to be able to tackle my real world scenario, my old car could do 800km under such conditions which is far more than I actually needed, I wouldn't have missed the extra capability.

You start off every morning in an EV with a full battery. People forget that, it's like having a petrol tank at home and filling up every morning. You don;t have to visit a rapid unless you either plan a long journey or have an unexpected trip.

Stonewolf wrote: »

Saying that people can have a second car to meet these needs is also hugely impractical given the fixed costs of car ownership and the price of renting a car acts as a barrier to people using them for quick trips.

My car included 21 days of free car rental with delivery of the vehicle to my location. I've used 0.

A good solid intermediate or full-size car is less than €35/day, less if you provide your own insurance.

Ad-hoc car rental like Go-Car is also an option, I keep a membership with them to occasionally borrow a van for IKEA trips and the like. €4/month and you pay per km with insurance and fuel included.

Stonewolf wrote: »

If I could find an EV that could do that, satisfy my snobbish tastes in trim/spec and come in at an appropriate price I'd buy it.

EVs at the moment are suitable for those with either suitable usage patterns or a willingness to accept some minor inconvenience in exchange for the benefits.

Without the RHD premium and VRT the model S is not that far off the price of a well specced 5-Series (until the S70D was announced the S65 started at €57k). By 2019/2020 batteries will be cheap enough that an EV with the range and trim you want will be cheaper than an ICE equivalent (we're already below the per-kWh prices originally predicted for 2020).

colm_mcm

cros13 wrote: »

Range Anxiety seems to be something suffered mainly by people who don't own EVs. I know where my destination is and I know where the chargers along the route are.
.

The other side to that argument is that someone who worries about range and doesn't want to pre plan routes around charging won't buy en EV in the first place.

cros13

colm_mcm wrote: »

The other side to that argument is that someone who worries about range and doesn't want to pre plan routes around charging won't buy en EV in the first place.

True... and there's a selection bias inherent in EV ownership as a result. A Nissan dealer said to me when I was looking at the Leaf that the two groups of people buying them were "hippies and engineers".

Don't forget that the new Tesla Roadster has now even more range than the model S.

It's not the technology that's really the limitation but more the cost. And the fact Tesla are the only EV maker that uses a non ev specific battery cell that's cheaper to begin with.

Tesla are the only company that have the ability to produce a large battery pack with these non ev specific cells. These cells are far less safe than the automotive specific ones used in say, the Leaf. The leaf cells will never catch fire but the Tesla is still one of the safest cars on the road.