Novena to St Anthony

jezzer

Anybody know the prayers you see left in church? you say a novena to st anthony 9 tuesdays in a row and your prayer will be answered, every time leaving a copy of the prayer in church so it will help someone else, it says no matter what your prayer will be answered before the termination of the 9 tuesdays, well i tried it and of course my prayer was not answered, what is the deal here? why do these prayers be left in church knowing full well they dont work? i dont really understand it all, I always felt God answered my prayers until recently.

homer911

God is not a slot machine. You dont dop in 50c, pull the handle and get a winning line. There is no "magic formula" for getting God to answer your prayer.

God doesnt always answer prayers, at least not in the way that we would often want. He has a grand plan for us and answering that prayer may not be part of it.

jezzer

I see what you mean, so would you say that leaving those prayers in church are harmful to peoples faith? if someone is in a dire situation and they do the novena and nothing happens it can weaken their faith

Manach

Prayer is a form of conversation. A means of communication with God.

While it is advantageous to have a template to base ones talk on, it is only training wheels so as to begin with. By entering into a state of prayer, which for many people the additional sense of peace that takes place in a Church, the mind can relax and prioritise concerns if this a motivation factor.

Peregrinus

jezzer wrote: »

I see what you mean, so would you say that leaving those prayers in church are harmful to peoples faith? if someone is in a dire situation and they do the novena and nothing happens it can weaken their faith

Well, the weakening of faith in a "slot machine" god, to borrow Homer911's excellent phrase, is possibly a good thing. As he points out, God is not a slot machine, and an attitude that takes him to be one is probably closer to superstition than faith.

That sounds harsh, I know, and it's not meant to be. If someone is in a "dire situation" the Christian response, and the one most likely to strengthen their faith is to do everything you can, both practically and spiritually, to alleviate their situation and, to the extent that you can't alleviate it, to stand in solidarity with them as they go through whatever it is that cannot be averted. If we do that for them, then the failure of the novena to produce the promised jackpot is something they will be better able to cope with without turning to dispair.

jezzer

So is prayer a pointless pursuit? good things and bad things happen to both people who pray and people who dont pray, maybe people who dont pray are better off as they can face reality as opposed to someone putting their faith in God? I am beginning to believe that, whilst it is good to pray and communicate with God, faith can be a dangerous thing.

Peregrinus

jezzer wrote: »

So is prayer a pointless pursuit? good things and bad things happen to both people who pray and people who dont pray, maybe people who dont pray are better off as they can face reality as opposed to someone putting their faith in God? I am beginning to believe that, whilst it is good to pray and communicate with God, faith can be a dangerous thing.

No, prayer is not pointless at all. When I mentioned assisting people "practically and spiritually", I was thinking of praying for them, and praying with them.

What's pointless, if not actually dangerous, is treating prayer the lever on a slot machine, or encouraging others to do so. I think the "say this nine times and your prayer will be answered" message is good in intent - encouraging people to prayer - but harmful in effect - encouraging people to superstition.

jezzer

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, prayer is not pointless at all. When I mentioned assisting people "practically and spiritually", I was thinking of praying for them, and praying with them.

What's pointless, if not actually dangerous, is treating prayer the lever on a slot machine, or encouraging others to do so. I think the "say this nine times and your prayer will be answered" message is good in intent - encouraging people to prayer - but harmful in effect - encouraging people to superstition.

Yes i fully agree with you. I think possibly that people should be thought that prayer is important to worship God but to expect anything from prayer alone is dangerous.

Peregrinus

Well, I think you can expect, or at least hope, for lots of things from prayer. Prayer is a way of engaging with and deepening your relationship with God, and you can expect a good relationship to improve your life. But when you marry, say, or form a friendship, you don't expect that to produce the cure of disease, or the new washing-machine, or the promotion at work, that you look for. You shouldn't expect a relationship with God to improve your life in that way.

kksaints

Speaking as someone who cleans a church. Those cards that people leave behind on seats are a nuisance as they are often put on random seats which can make them tricky to see and remove. They also fall off the seats a lot and some people end up throwing them behind radiators which is awkward to remove. If you are a person who leaves prayer cards in the church please don't.

jezzer

kksaints wrote: »

Speaking as someone who cleans a church. Those cards that people leave behind on seats are a nuisance as they are often put on random seats which can make them tricky to see and remove. They also fall off the seats a lot and some people end up throwing them behind radiators which is awkward to remove. If you are a person who leaves prayer cards in the church please don't.

The fact that they interfere with your cleaning duties is irrelevant to this thread, i'm sure people leave them there in good faith, if you find that too much to deal with then maybe you shouldn't be cleaning a church

jezzer

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, I think you can expect, or at least hope, for lots of things from prayer. Prayer is a way of engaging with and deepening your relationship with God, and you can expect a good relationship to improve your life. But when you marry, say, or form a friendship, you don't expect that to produce the cure of disease, or the new washing-machine, or the promotion at work, that you look for. You shouldn't expect a relationship with God to improve your life in that way.

But surely if God cant help us then that makes him almost irrelevant?

Peregrinus

jezzer wrote: »

But surely if God cant help us then that makes him almost irrelevant?

God helps you all the time, jezzer. He just doesn't deliver on demand the particular help that you think you need.

jezzer

Is God guiding us? does everything that happens to us happen for a reason? if, say, we essentially need something here on earth but it doesnt happen for us, is that because God has a different plan for us, one which we cant see? and if so surely that plan is good and does not involve hurt? why do some people suffer more than others?

lazybones32

jezzer wrote: »

But surely if God cant help us then that makes him almost irrelevant?

lol! "God exists to serve jezzer!"

If you don't mind the intrusion, what did you ask for?
Thinking that repeating something nine times will twist God's arm into acting as you desire(demand?) is superstition.

jezzer

lazybones32 wrote: »

lol! "God exists to serve jezzer!"

If you don't mind the intrusion, what did you ask for?
Thinking that repeating something nine times will twist God's arm into acting as you desire(demand?) is superstition.

No need to be flippant, I am just trying to better understand how God works. I would rather keep my difficulties private.

As you mention above, does that not mean that most peoples prayers are just superstition? when people pray they either give thanks or ask for help, therefore is asking God for help superstition?

Peregrinus

No, asking God for help is not superstition. It becomes superstition when you convince yourself that if you say this particular prayer that number of times over those days while performing these actions you get a guaranteed result.

Asking God for help is good. It's putting your concerns and your weakness to God, and acknowledging your radical dependence on God. Giving thanks to God is likewise good, for essentially the same reasons. But the help you need may not actually be for God to avert whatever dire situation you are facing, but to support you through it.

jezzer

Thanks, it makes more sense now. It may be out of Gods hands to help? or he may have a different plan for that person?

lazybones32

All of us are still grasping 'how God works' and why some prayers aren't answered as we'd like. He answers one person's prayer and seemingly stays silent in the face of another's.

No situation is beyond His help.

jezzer

lazybones32 wrote: »

All of us are still grasping 'how God works' and why some prayers aren't answered as we'd like. He answers one person's prayer and seemingly stays silent in the face of another's.

No situation is beyond His help.

Therefore he chooses when to help and when not to help for reasons only known to him

Danye

Hi all,

I'm not overly religious but I've massive devotion to St. Anthony.

I've often said the 9 weeks novena and while at times I haven't always received exactly what I wanted I've always, always, always received what I needed or what was better for me than what I originally requested.

Just because its a 9 week novena doesn't mean on the 9th Tuesday your request shows up like an order from amazon. It could take another month or it might have happened already but your not open and or aware to it.

A lot of it boils down to faith.

Festus

jezzer wrote: »

Thanks, it makes more sense now. It may be out of Gods hands to help? or he may have a different plan for that person?

Nothing is outside of Gods power.

Lord Tennyson put it simpler in a different context and I think we should reason why but doing God's will and putting ourselves in the position that we die in a state of grace should be our goals in life. If we are praying for something that might interfere with that then the prayer is unlikely to be answered as expected. More likely we'll get a pointer or an encouragement to what we should be doing.
Any novena should help us meditate so that we can discern what we should be praying for, in addition to living and dying as we should - in a state of grace.

(influenced by St. Ignatius)

lazybones32

jezzer wrote: »

Therefore he chooses when to help and when not to help for reasons only known to him

No. He always helps but we mightn't realise how we were assisted and it might not happen exactly as we thought was the best way to be helped. We can't see the furthest consequences of actions but He does.
You are encouraged to ask and to persevere in asking; to wear Him down by asking until you get what you sought or something better than what you asked for. God is generous.

Peregrinus

jezzer wrote: »

Thanks, it makes more sense now. It may be out of Gods hands to help? or he may have a different plan for that person?

As I see it, it's more that the real benefit of your prayer for help is the change it work in you. You are honestly confronting your own needs and your own weakness, and you are acknoweldging your radical dependence on God. This brings you to a better appreciation of the world and your place in it, which leaves you better positioned to deal with what you have to deal with.

I don't want to suggest that prayer is a cheap alternative to psychotherapy. It's not. There are real spiritual benefits here, and there is real grace. What there isn't, ever, is any kind of guarantee that you'll get the discovery of missing car keys/new washing machine/new girlfriend/promotion at work/cure from pancreatic cancer that you have identified as your overriding need.

homer911

The OP's question reminds me of this old story..

http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html

God doesnt necessarily answer our prayers in the way we expect

jezzer

homer911 wrote: »

The OP's question reminds me of this old story..

http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html

God doesnt necessarily answer our prayers in the way we expect

Brilliant story! I guess we dont always recognise when God is helping us, or possibly if our prayer is not answered it is because by not answering that prayer allows something else to happen

jezzer

Danye wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm not overly religious but I've massive devotion to St. Anthony.

I've often said the 9 weeks novena and while at times I haven't always received exactly what I wanted I've always, always, always received what I needed or what was better for me than what I originally requested.

Just because its a 9 week novena doesn't mean on the 9th Tuesday your request shows up like an order from amazon. It could take another month or it might have happened already but your not open and or aware to it.

A lot of it boils down to faith.

Yes i see what you mean, prayer is always answered in some way shape or forum.

Some great replies here guys thank you, it is good to get a better understanding. I go to mass regularly but feel very cut off from the church, i dont feel priests are approachable at all and when you are not in school anymore that means you lose any connection to the church which is a pity, i cant help but constantly think about what those priests and christian brothers did to those children all those years ago, the very people who were meant to be protecting them, and in terms of my own experiences with priests is that all they care about is money which is ironic as they preach the opposite on the alter. Of course they are not all like that but i can only go by my own experiences.

Would I be correct in saying that death is the only thing which cant essentially be controlled, everything else, God can intervene?

homer911

jezzer wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that death is the only thing which cant essentially be controlled, everything else, God can intervene?

There is nothing that is outside of God's power to control. From a Christian point of view Jesus has already won victory over death.

From a death/separation perspective, humans were never created to live for ever - thats why we have souls, so I guess in that sense you are correct.

I think we are bordering on a sinfulness and free will discussion and what God chooses to do or not do as a result of giving us free will..

jezzer

homer911 wrote: »

I think we are bordering on a sinfulness and free will discussion and what God chooses to do or not do as a result of giving us free will..

Not necessarily, i dont think there is any harm in trying to better understand God and how he works, just, sometimes i cant understand why some suffer more than others

jimd2

homer911 wrote: »

God is not a slot machine. You dont dop in 50c, pull the handle and get a winning line. There is no "magic formula" for getting God to answer your prayer.

God doesnt always answer prayers, at least not in the way that we would often want. He has a grand plan for us and answering that prayer may not be part of it.

Does God ever answer prayers? I am a Catholic but I would no longer be one if the premise was that he answers prayers, perform miracles etc?

In fact I wouldnt expect him to answer my prayers as my problems are "1st World". Too many bigger issues around the world that he should be dealing with (if he could).

Regarding the so-called "grand-plan", as a catholic I certainly hope so but that's all it is. I wouldnt be as confident as you are in this assertion that he has a grand plan for us all.

Or maybe you know something that I dont?

jezzer

jimd2 wrote: »

Does God ever answer prayers? I am a Catholic but I would no longer be one if the premise was that he answers prayers, perform miracles etc?

In fact I wouldnt expect him to answer my prayers as my problems are "1st World". Too many bigger issues around the world that he should be dealing with (if he could).

Regarding the so-called "grand-plan", as a catholic I certainly hope so but that's all it is. I wouldnt be as confident as you are in this assertion that he has a grand plan for us all.

Or maybe you know something that I dont?

In terms of what you say, you have 1st world problems, i too often wonder at that, why would God bother with me when millions are starving etc, i also cant understand how or why some people are born into better situations than others, however, maybe we just perceive that others are worse off than us, just because we see that others are in worse situations does not mean God sees it that way, maybe they dont either, also, if God just answered the prayers of people who are worse off, then God would be categorising us but to God we are all equal. Also, we have to assume there is a grand plan, otherwise whats the point? there is far too much suffering in this world for that to be the end game in my opinion.

nicky21

Hi .
I am looking to start this prayer as soon as I can . Does it have to be on a Tuesday or can I start it today (Wednesday ) and continue it on the Tuesday then ?

jezzer

nicky21 wrote: »

Hi .
I am looking to start this prayer as soon as I can . Does it have to be on a Tuesday or can I start it today (Wednesday ) and continue it on the Tuesday then ?

it needs to begin on tuesday but your prayer will only be answered if that is what is meant to happen

looksee

jezzer wrote: »

it needs to begin on tuesday but your prayer will only be answered if that is what is meant to happen

Why does it need to begin on Tuesday? What is the significance of Tuesday?

uck51js9zml2yt

looksee wrote: »

Why does it need to begin on Tuesday? What is the significance of Tuesday?

See below

He died on a Tuesday and that is the reason of the Tuesday devotion.

looksee

Ok, thanks for that. I have just read it through and there are numerous places where the words have been garbled to nonsense. Evidently the intention is more important than the prayers; which makes some sort of sense I suppose.

Mrs OBumble

jezzer wrote: »

it needs to begin on tuesday but your prayer will only be answered if that is what is meant to happen

Prayer will always be answered.

But sometimes the answer is "no".

Thinkingaboutit

I think this is the prayer OP wanted:

Novena to Saint Anthony for Any Need

St. Anthony, you are glorious for your miracles and for the condescension of Jesus Who came as a little child to lie in your arms. Obtain for me from His bounty the grace which I ardently desire. You were so compassionate toward sinners, do not regard my unworthiness. Let the glory of God be magnified by you in connection with the particular request that I earnestly present to you.

[State your request here.]

As a pledge of my gratitude, I promise to live more faithfully in accordance with the teachings of the Church, and to be devoted to the service of the poor whom you loved and still love so greatly. Bless this resolution of mine that I may be faithful to it until death.

St. Anthony, consoler of all the afflicted, pray for me.

St. Anthony, helper of all who invoke you, pray for me.

St. Anthony, whom the Infant Jesus loved and honored so much, pray for me. Amen.

A request like that should be taken a cue to ride Protestant hobby horses.

uck51js9zml2yt

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I think this is the prayer OP wanted:




A request like that should be taken a cue to ride Protestant hobby horses.

As I'm not a Protestant I've no hobby horse.

homer911

nicky21 wrote: »

Hi .
I am looking to start this prayer as soon as I can . Does it have to be on a Tuesday or can I start it today (Wednesday ) and continue it on the Tuesday then ?

Try praying to God instead and start now, not on a specified day of the week


(Who comes up with this stuff??)

Thinkingaboutit

homer911 wrote: »

Try praying to God instead and start now, not on a specified day of the week


(Who comes up with this stuff??)

Hobby horse riding:rolleyes:. You should answer OP's question or not answer it.

@Jezzer

Visit an altar or shrine of the Saint on nine consecutive Tuesdays.

Another text:

We Salute thee, Saint Anthony lily of purity, ornament and glory of Christianity. We rejoice at the favors God has so liberally bestowed on thee. In humility and confidence we entreat thee to help us for we know that God has given thee charity and pity as well as power. Then behold our distress, our anxiety, our fears concerning [Here mention your intentions.] We ask if of thee by the love thou didst feel for the divine Child when he loaded thee with caresses. Tell Him of our wants. Remember thy rapture when thou didst clasp Him to thy heart when thou didst press thy cheek to His and didst listen to His divine whispers. One sigh from thee whom He honors will crown our success and fill us with joy. Think of this and hear our prayer. Obtain for us all that we desire and we will publish thy greatness thereby to glorify Him by whom thou wert so highly favored. Amen

O Holy Saint Anthony, Gentlest of Saints, your love for God and charity for His creatures made you worthy when on earthy to possess miraculous powers. Miracles waited on your word which you were ever ready to speak for those in trouble or anxiety. Encouraged by this thought, I implore you to obtain for me my request [Here mention your intentions.]

The answer to my prayer may require a miracle, even so, you are the Saint of miracles. O Gentle and Loving Saint Anthony, whose heart was ever full of human sympathy, whisper my petition into the ears of the Sweet Infant Jesus, Who loved to be folded in your arms, and the gratitude of my heart will ever be yours.

Saint Anthony, loved and honored by the divine Child Jesus, Obtain what we ask of thee.
Saint Anthony, powerful in word and work, Obtain what we ask of thee.
Saint Anthony, attentive to those who invoke thee, Obtain what we ask of thee.

Source (the site page seems to carry the prayers in my St Anthony's Treasury which is handy)

homer911

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Hobby horse riding:rolleyes:. You should answer OP's question or not answer it.

You clearly didn't read the previous posts

Visit an altar or shrine of the Saint on nine consecutive Tuesdays.

LOL, So if I accidentally make it on one Wednesday by mistake, or only go 8 times instead, the magic formula wont work?? Sounds a bit like Harry Potter getting a spell wrong!

Thinkingaboutit

homer911 wrote: »

You clearly didn't read the previous posts

LOL, So if I accidentally make it on one Wednesday by mistake, or only go 8 times instead, the magic formula wont work?? Sounds a bit like Harry Potter getting a spell wrong!

I certainly did read the unimpressive contributions by you and other Protestants. You really do not want to down the road of 'Protestantism is rational, Catholicism is superstition.' Just think about it. It isn't the seventeenth century. Sir Oliver Cromwell and Sir Isaac Newton are dead. All you can do is mock other people's faith over the internet. No one cares. Looking at all the ruinous First Fruits Protestant churches, no one here much cares either.

nicky21

homer911 wrote: »

Try praying to God instead and start now, not on a specified day of the week


(Who comes up with this stuff??)

Why reply to me in such an undermining way ??
Please don't bother in future

lazybones32

homer911 wrote: »

LOL, So if I accidentally make it on one Wednesday by mistake, or only go 8 times instead, the magic formula wont work?? Sounds a bit like Harry Potter getting a spell wrong!

A novena, 9 days of praying, isn't a "magic formula" but is an imitation of the 9 days of praying the Apostles and disciples devoted themselves to after the Ascension of Christ to Heaven. Those 9 days of prayer 'ended' with the descent of the Holy Spirit - Pentecost. So, there is biblical basis for this form of prayer. And if the example of Scripture is something to go by, it is an effective form.

Delirium

MOD NOTE

nicky21 infracted for their reply to homer911.

Please modify your posting so as to avoid further cards and/or forum bans.

Thanks for your attention.

Thinkingaboutit

lazybones32 wrote: »

A novena, 9 days of praying, isn't a "magic formula" but is an imitation of the 9 days of praying the Apostles and disciples devoted themselves to after the Ascension of Christ to Heaven. Those 9 days of prayer 'ended' with the descent of the Holy Spirit - Pentecost. So, there is biblical basis for this form of prayer. And if the example of Scripture is something to go by, it is an effective form.

Indeed. Moreover, jubilees and the various other sacral markings of time were key to the religion of Israel of old. Moreover, doing things in an organised manner is a good idea generally. Prayer in an ordered way is a means of harnessing co-operative grace wherein we work with God, that, per St Augustine 'he accomplishes without us; but when we do will, and so will as to do, He cooperates with us' drawing on ''Being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you, will perfect it unto the day of Christ Jesus’ (Phil. 1:6)