Early Parenthood and Social Class

Montroseee

I've always wondered about the relationship between early parenthood and social class/benefits. A while back I was living in Inchicore and upon arriving at my daughter's parent teacher meeting, it felt like I had just rocked up to a 21st such was the average age of the parents present. Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system, which I have witnessed first hand, it begs the question of how much influence does this on people having children in their late teens/early twenties. I really don't think the vast majority of that age group have enough life experience or are fit to be parents, I don't like the way it is such a viable lifestyle choice.

MagicIRL

Don't judge a book by it's cover. I know plenty of big grown up adults who shouldn't be allowed keep fish let alone raise kids.

Adamantium

Montroseee wrote: »

I've always wondered about the relationship between early parenthood and social class/benefits. A while back I was living in Inchicore and upon arriving at my daughter's parent teacher meeting, it felt like I had just rocked up to a 21st such was the average age of the parents present. Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system, which I have witnessed first hand, it begs the question of how much influence does this on people having children in their late teens/early twenties. I really don't think the vast majority of that age group have enough life experience or are fit to be parents, I don't like the way it is such a viable lifestyle choice.

I once started a thread like this..............

It didn't go well.

And your right; if a social net was not there, people would be far more careful and they wouldn't throw caution to the wind as they do now regarding early parenthood, simply out of fear.

Shenshen

Is that really only down to exploitation of the benefits system?

I would imagine it's more to do with education levels. If you leave the education system earlier and start your working life earlier, there is no reason why you would delay having children.

Delaying having children only really makes sense if you are going to college, university, post-grad courses etc. and then want to get a foothold in your profession before allowing time off for the children.

nelly17

Its an interesting one I live on the Commuter belt and I would say on average the parents are a bit older judging from my kids P+T Meetings, I would say on average wee talking late 20s and in their 30s seems also to be the case on the school runs. With regard so social 'class' I wouldnt dare comment. But it does make for an interesting concept. Being the commuter belt I would reckon most families would own their house but I'm making generalisations here.

Senna

OP don't you know you aren't allow to make blazing stereotypes even when you are 100% correct, now bite your tongue.

Montroseee

Shenshen wrote: »

Is that really only down to exploitation of the benefits system?

I would imagine it's more to do with education levels. If you leave the education system earlier and start your working life earlier, there is no reason why you would delay having children.

Delaying having children only really makes sense if you are going to college, university, post-grad courses etc. and then want to get a foothold in your profession before allowing time off for the children.

It would interest me on how much a benefits caps and reductions to bring social welfare in line with a lot of other EU member states (bar the UK) would influence the age people start having children and the family size.

One eyed Jack

Montroseee wrote: »

I've always wondered about the relationship between early parenthood and social class/benefits. A while back I was living in Inchicore and upon arriving at my daughter's parent teacher meeting, it felt like I had just rocked up to a 21st such was the average age of the parents present. Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system, which I have witnessed first hand, it begs the question of how much influence does this on people having children in their late teens/early twenties. I really don't think the vast majority of that age group have enough life experience or are fit to be parents, I don't like the way it is such a viable lifestyle choice.

I can only hope for your own children's sake your attitude doesn't rub off on them.

Me personally? I find the lack of self-awareness amusing

Shenshen

Montroseee wrote: »

It would interest me on how much a benefits caps and reductions to bring social welfare in line with a lot of other EU member states (bar the UK) would influence the age people start having children and the family size.

I can't speak for all EU countries, but you'd see a simialr phenomenon in Germany :

People who leave the education system early have children early. People who pursue higher education levels don't have children until they reach their 40s.

Grayson

Shenshen wrote: »

Is that really only down to exploitation of the benefits system?

I would imagine it's more to do with education levels. If you leave the education system earlier and start your working life earlier, there is no reason why you would delay having children.

Delaying having children only really makes sense if you are going to college, university, post-grad courses etc. and then want to get a foothold in your profession before allowing time off for the children.

Studies have shown a direct correlation between social class pregnancy. But you're right when you say education matters. Education has been shown to be the greatest leveller of social class.

Montroseee

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can only hope for your own children's sake your attitude doesn't rub off on them.

Me personally? I find the lack of self-awareness amusing

What's wrong with my attitude, thinking it's not right for an 18/19/20 yr old to be a parent? Are you going to argue the contrary?

SEPT 23 1989

Early parenthood would mean 15/16 to me not 20

Kermit.de.frog

If both parents are unemployed why have kids you can't afford in the first place?

Cee-Jay-Cee

I don't know if they set out with he intention of having children in their teens early 20's and then living on benefits for the rest of their lives but the social welfare system is so generous you cant really blame them. The way it us at present there is absolutely no incentive to get a job and contribute to society as you'll end up consuderably worse off. You'll have to pay for childcare, mortgage/rent, medical care/doctors, fuel, travel etc.

Montroseee

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If both parents are unemployed why have kids you can't afford in the first place?

Because the benefits system here makes it a very viable lifestyle choice, it is possible to have a decent standard of living on it.

SEPT 23 1989

Montroseee wrote: »

Because the benefits system here makes it a very viable lifestyle choice, it is possible to have a decent standard of living on it.

no its not possible to have a decent standard of living on 200.00 a week bringing up a child even if you throw in a "free house"

Summer wind

I think it's a bit mad to have children before you are 25. I think people should take a bit of time to live their lives before becoming parents.

Kermit.de.frog

No major bill expenses, child benefit, tax and work free at least 188 per week (double for two adults), lone parent's allowance (when the partner is actually in the house), rent supplement....

The benefits system in Ireland is hands down the most ridiculous and ill thought out in Europe.

One eyed Jack

Montroseee wrote: »

What's wrong with my attitude, thinking it's not right for an 18/19/20 yr old to be a parent? Are you going to argue the contrary?

You're not likely to change your opinion any time soon given you jumped so quickly to form conclusions about people you had no idea about them, only a guesstimate at their age and social status.

For what it's worth though, it was your snap judgment I was referring to, and the idea that a person's ability to be a parent is in your opinion determined by their age, social status, and of course "life experience".

How you were able to judge all this, and their parenting ability, by simply a cursory glance is nothing short of incredible, and is quite telling of your own "life experience", or simply lack thereof.

The_Captain

Summer wind wrote: »

I think it's a bit mad to have children before you are 25. I think people should take a bit of time to live their lives before becoming parents.

Never understand this logic. People in their early thirties end up saying 'I'm too young to have kids' so they can keep pretending they're only 21.
Or "I have so much travelling to do" when they only go on holidays to France once a year that can easily accomodate kids

Montroseee

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

no its not possible to have a decent standard of living on 200.00 a week bringing up a child even if you throw in a "free house"

It's possible to have a lot more than that in all fairness, I'd suggest doing a bit of research.

eviltwin

I had my first child at 19. I'm nearly 40 now, I married her dad, went to college, bought a home etc. The only reason any of that was possible was the support of my husband and his family especially his mum who minded my daughter while we kept on with our education. A lot of young parents aren't so lucky. There are few options available for someone who wants to return to education. Who minds the child? Those lack of options are keeping people trapped in welfare. I know my outcome is rare but I'm glad some good people at the time didn't write me off as a scumbag loser and gave me a chance.

anncoates

The fact that they were turning up to a parent teacher meeting suggested that they're at least doing their job as parents.

And unless you interviewed every single one of them, i'm not sure how you can know all of them were in receipt of social welfare.

Montroseee

eviltwin wrote: »

I had my first child at 19. I'm nearly 40 now, I married her dad, went to college, bought a home etc. The only reason any of that was possible was the support of my husband and his family especially his mum who minded my daughter while we kept on with our education. A lot of young parents aren't so lucky. There are few options available for someone who wants to return to education. Who minds the child? Those lack of options are keeping people trapped in welfare.

No it's not, they make a conscious decision to have children young so it comes back on them. It's not right to rely on family members or the state when working people like myself have to fork out 200 euro weekly for childcare.

Tasden

Montroseee wrote: »

It's possible to have a lot more than that in all fairness, I'd suggest doing a bit of research.

Where exactly did you do your research?

anncoates

Montroseee wrote: »

It's not right to rely on family members or the state when working people like myself have to fork out 200 euro weekly for childcare.

wtf

RobYourBuilder

Teenage pregnancy levels in Ireland and the UK are at a record low.

2010;

Teenage pregnancy in Ireland has dropped to levels not seen since the 1960s, figures reveal.

There were 2,043 births to women under the age of 20 in the Republic during 2010, the CSO said in its Vital Statistics Annual 2010 report, released yesterday.

2011;

IRELAND RECORDED ITS lowest rate of teenage births in 50 years in 2011, the Central Statistics Office has said.

According to new figures from the CSO, just 2.3 per cent of all births, or 1,690, were to teenage girls. That is compared with 6.2 per cent in 1999.

The figures showed, however, that 36 new mothers were under 15, 103 were 16 and 252 were 17.

Can't find stats for 2012 and 2013, but if anyone has them, sharing is caring and all that.

For the UK;

British teenage pregnancies have fallen to their lowest level since records began while teenage boys and girls are less likely than their predecessors to take drugs or drink alcohol, according to newly published figures.

Pregnancies among 15- to 17-year-old girls have fallen to 27.9 per 1,000 – a drop of just over 40 per cent on the numbers reported when records began to be collected in 1969.

And Norn Iron;

The number of teenage pregnancies in Northern Ireland in 2013 fell to a "record low", according to figures from the Department of Health (DHSSPS).

There were 937 births to teenage mothers, women aged under 20, last year.

The department said there had been a 37% fall from 2003, when there were 1,484 teenage pregnancies recorded.

So it seems that the spiel about teenage girls getting up the Damien to get free gaffs is a bit of a myth.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teenage-pregnancy-levels-at-lowest-since-1966-214221.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/teen-pregnancies-in-britain-hit-all-time-low-1.1877145

http://www.thejournal.ie/teen-pregnancy-dropped-to-50-year-low-1114677-Oct2013/

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30252908

smcgiff

Montroseee wrote: »

...thinking it's not right for an 18/19/20 yr old to be a parent? Are you going to argue the contrary?

Human Biology and the vast proportion of human history would counter otherwise.

Kermit.de.frog

Why should people who don't have children have to contribute anything to child benefit in the first place? Taxpayers are paying people to have children they otherwise could not afford.

It's not good enough to act thick and say "it just happened" when the question is asked and thus we should subsidise their child if lucky, most times it's more than one child.

Is there any personal responsibility for anything in this country?

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

No it's not, they make a conscious decision to have children young so it comes back on them. It's not right to rely on family members or the state when working people like myself have to fork out 200 euro weekly for childcare.

So what would you suggest then? Force them to have their children put up for adoption? Condemn them to a life on welfare? Do you not believe that someone who has potential to go out and earn a living should be given the chance to do that so they can then give back to society? I claimed welfare until I graduated and have paid that back in multiplies, I am contributing to society. I don't know what my life would have ended up like without that opportunity.

If you have children and one of your children had a teenage pregnancy you'd probably feel a lot differently.

anncoates

Tasden wrote: »

Where exactly did you do your research?

At the school gates.

Advanced diploma in judgmental covens.

SEPT 23 1989

Montroseee wrote: »

No it's not, they make a conscious decision to have children young so it comes back on them. It's not right to rely on family members or the state when working people like myself have to fork out 200 euro weekly for childcare.

that's your lifestyle choice to hand over 200euro a week for childcare

don't blame other people

Useful.Idiot

The_Captain wrote: »

Never understand this logic. People in their early thirties end up saying 'I'm too young to have kids' so they can keep pretending they're only 21.
Or "I have so much travelling to do" when they only go on holidays to France once a year that can easily accomodate kids

well this logic makes sense if you wanted to move elsewhere abroad for a while (especially more than once) or if you were doing some serious travelling around the world for more than a few months at a time.

anncoates

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

that's your lifestyle choice to hand over 200euro a week for childcare

don't blame other people

Dunno how I'l break the news to my ma that she's not allowed to mind my kids anymore because chldcare.

Montroseee

Tasden wrote: »

Where exactly did you do your research?

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area. Plenty of families on the social have 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense for benefits to be able to fund that lifestyle.

anncoates

Montroseee wrote: »

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area.

You live there?

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area. Plenty of families on the social have 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense for benefits to be able to fund that lifestyle.

So you complain about people being on welfare but you are against any schemes to help someone educate themselves to get off welfare. That really makes sense. :rolleyes: Do you have as much contempt for the free education for the unemployed or for prisoners?

One eyed Jack

Montroseee wrote: »

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area. Plenty of families on the social have 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense for benefits to be able to fund that lifestyle.

You're right, it doesn't. I don't care for political correctness either and I call it like it is too, and I think you're talking utter horse sh... manure.

(I'll try and be somewhat polite about it :pac:)

we'llallhavetea

i was 19 when my daughter was born, so unfortunately i'm not fit to be a parent bad times

Montroseee

eviltwin wrote: »

So what would you suggest then? Force them to have their children put up for adoption? Condemn them to a life on welfare? Do you not believe that someone who has potential to go out and earn a living should be given the chance to do that so they can then give back to society? I claimed welfare until I graduated and have paid that back in multiplies, I am contributing to society. I don't know what my life would have ended up like without that opportunity.

If you have children and one of your children had a teenage pregnancy you'd probably feel a lot differently.

I'd be horrified and shocked at first if my daughter had a teenage pregnancy but would support and do my utmost to help. I just don't like the way in some places it is so commonplace.

AndonHandon

Generally speaking there are far more young mothers in the relatively lower social class areas. But emphasis on education appears to be the main factor, this is obviously related to economic status also, but not always.

The main issue with young mothers is that they are far more likely to go on benefits as they are too young to fully fund the cost to bring up that child, even with the assistance of another parent. How to address the problem? Greater emphasis on education? State funded childcare to enable parents to pursue education?

Tasden

Montroseee wrote: »

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area. Plenty of families on the social have 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense for benefits to be able to fund that lifestyle.

So did the young parents list the benefits they're on while waiting for the pt meeting to start or was it afterwards?

osarusan

OP's mask is slipping, slipping, slipped.

GTDolanator

This is basically just another welfare maggot thread...????

The One Doctor

Montroseee wrote: »

Because the benefits system here makes it a very viable lifestyle choice, it is possible to have a decent standard of living on it.

And you know this through direct experience of living on these benefits, right? Please don't tell me you're simply looking down your nose at people because you enjoy generalising about those less well off than you.

And while we're at it, how exactly does being 18 make people less qualified to be a parent? Is there some special parenting school you go to at 25? I know there's not, because I'm 35 and am just about to become a father for the first time. I'm as inexperienced at looking after children as an 18 year old father would be. What makes me more qualified?

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

I'd be horrified and shocked at first if my daughter had a teenage pregnancy but would support and do my utmost to help. I just don't like the way in some places it is so commonplace.

And what if she was desperate to get back to school? Going by your previous post your attitude comes across as "you made you bed". I am willing to bet that like most parents you would do anything you can to give your child and grandchild the chance of a good future just like my mother in law did.

Montroseee

Tasden wrote: »

So did the young parents list the benefits they're on while waiting for the pt meeting to start or was it afterwards?

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

Tasden

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

You chat to people about the benefits they're claiming? Go on so, tell us which ones I can claim if I want two cars and a holiday :pac:

The One Doctor

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

And you asked them if they're dole scroungers while radiating pious disapproval, right?

dark crystal

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i was 19 when my daughter was born, so unfortunately i'm not fit to be a parent bad times

Me too - I must ask my college going daughter just where I went wrong in raising her.

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

You're surprised? Really?

I suspect that's exactly the reaction you were aiming for.

One eyed Jack

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

Was there any offence taken by these people you were chatting to when you told them they weren't fit to be parents?


You... did tell them, right?