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Bicycle deaths double

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    No its about journalism playing with statistics...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    While it's extremely sad that 11 people have lost their lives cycling on Irish roads this year, it's not helpful to resort to the stock retort that driver behaviour is solely to blame. Plenty of threads have been exhausted on bad drivers, bad cyclists, bad enforcement, but it's not helpful to those who lost their lives, those who got very seriously injured, or their families to keep cranking up the blame game each time a click bait rag like the Journal needs a few columns to fill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    I don't think it's fair to blame only one category of road user.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Possibly due to an increase in number of cyclists?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

    On category of road user kills all pedestrians too. Safest thing would be to ban all drivers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 383 ✭✭surpy


    its a sad statistic, but needs context of number of cyclists, miles cycled, number of cars and many more


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    When you're dealing with such low overall numbers, "doubling" makes it sound more sensational than it really is.

    In the absence of inquest reports or convictions, I don't think there's any grounds to claim that these six deaths were down to driver hostility.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Oscar-Gateaux, in my own experience some drivers are behaving very dangerously towards cyclists lately; there seems to be a propaganda war going on in which cyclists are the baddies, rather than fellow-road-users that someone driving three tons of metal should be lovely careful of.
    One example: I was cycling to Shamrokon, held in a hotel in Burlington Road, where a cyclist was killed a couple of weeks ago. I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.
    A taxi driver, assuming wrongly that I was signalling to make a right turn the wrong way down a one-way street, abandoned his duty to actually look at the road in front of him, and leaned out the window screaming back at me while swerving and blaring his horn.
    Even if I had intended to go down the one-way, this was none of his business. His behaviour was extraordinarily dangerous. And it's not unusual.
    I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.
    There's a huge attitude change, and it's dangerous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Koobcam


    It seems in general that more people are dying on the roads, be it cyclists, motorists or other categories. Personally, I suspect it is mainly the result of the fact that there are more people on the roads at peak times-basically, economic growth is resulting in increasing numbers of road deaths.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?
    That's a bit disingenuous - there was one cyclist killed recently after he came off his bike when he hit an oil spill on a descent.

    Aside from the obvious thing that the numbers are so low as to render "doubling" meaningless, there are likely lots of things at play here, not least the increase in the volume of cyclists on the road, the increase in overall traffic and number of people at work, and the long run of clear and dry weather we've had since the start of the summer.

    Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in driver hostility towards cyclists, quite the opposite in fact. However, from what I can see driver behaviour has degraded quite seriously, drivers taking more risks and breaking more rules. This could be a result of increased traffic volumes causing frustration or it might be down to a reduction in enforcement.
    I also seem to be encountering more HGVs within Dublin than previously, though that may just be a seasonal thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.
    None of this happens to me. I commute about 150km a week through Dublin traffic.

    Maybe you're doing it wrong.

    Dismounting in the middle of the road in order to cross the opposite carriageway as a pedestrian is exactly the sort of unpredictable behaviour that contributes to incidents; maybe I misunderstood your account.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Last year's figure was, IIRC, an all time low. In recent years the number of deaths has dropped, until it levelled out at around 10 a year. The information being sensationalised by the Journal is entirely in line with recent statistical experience.

    In fact, I think there were an abnormal number back around January (3 deaths during the month I think) time. I am pretty sure the "annualised rate" since say March would be lower than 11.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Just don't read the comments. It's depressing. There is an unhealthy amount of ignorance and stupidity when it comes to the roads in this country.

    tl;dr - High viz and segregation will solve all our problems.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Koobcam wrote: »
    It seems in general that more people are dying on the roads, be it cyclists, motorists or other categories. Personally, I suspect it is mainly the result of the fact that there are more people on the roads at peak times-basically, economic growth is resulting in increasing numbers of road deaths.

    This. It is my view that a proportion of the recent drop in road deaths was down to economic factors. Specifically the price of fuel and unemployment. The most dangerous cohort of drivers - males under 25 - have been the hardest hit by unemployment and by emigration.

    In the absence of adequate policing, road deaths will go back up as the economy recovers and the price of fuel drops again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    This. It is my view that a proportion of the recent drop in road deaths was down to economic factors. Specifically the price of fuel and unemployment. The most dangerous cohort of drivers - males under 25 - have been the hardest hit by unemployment and by emigration.
    Are they dangerous to cyclists though?

    Young male drivers (of the lowered and exhausted Vauxhall Nova persuasion) are underrepresented in the (minor and infrequent) issues I have with discourtesy and impatient driving.

    Mostly they seem to wait patiently for an overtaking opportunity and then safely blast past, enjoying the road space I've created for them in front of me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Lumen wrote: »
    Are they dangerous to cyclists though?

    Young male drivers (of the lowered and exhausted Vauxhall Nova persuasion) are underrepresented in the (minor and infrequent) issues I have with discourtesy and impatient driving.

    Mostly they seem to wait patiently for an overtaking opportunity and then safely blast past, enjoying the road space I've created for them in front of me.

    Thats a fair question and I don't know the answer. One of the arguments for getting more young men cycling is that they are less able to kill others while they are on bikes.

    But that does not address the original question.

    By the way I don't think your criticism of someone dismounting at a central island is fair or reasonable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,154 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    As another poster has already eluded to, there is definitely an increase in bicycle users on city roads etc, and with bike share schemes coming online all over Ireland... Yet all these bicycles being left to there own devices and sent out to play with the bus's and taxi's competing for space, no extra consideration for the extra bicycle road users(advance traffic signals, joined up cycle lanes, induction loops at traffic signals which work for bicycles etc)... Sadly accidents and deaths can occur when you have vehicles all competing for space, with the most vulnerable road users coming off worse.. :(

    I do a cross town commute a few times a week and I've seen it all, cyclists go through lights, cars speeding through amber/red, cars with faulty headlights or lights not turned on, cyclists with no lights and just high vis or black clothing, no one group of road user can say they stick to basic rules...

    I never get beeped or shouted at probably because I have a reasonable level of fitness/speed, a well maintained lightweight bike, am wearing cycle-gear and only carry a light backpack that I can get ahead of/stay ahead of cars and buses by kicking the speed up to 40kph when needed...
    But your average bicyclist may not be fit, may be on a heavy bike or carrying a heavy bag and struggle to get the speed up who are most vulnerable..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,556 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I wouldn't rule out driver aggressiveness, which imo is being whipped up by personalities and elements in the media.

    Was it earlier this year, or last year, that a Top Gear presenter was giving out about a cyclist not allowing him to perform an illegal overtaking manoeuvre on a Zebra Crossing by not letting him squeeze past? I was on a night out in the last few weeks and commuting/ the increased traffic volumes came up, and I stated I'm cycling part of the commute now. The lads were queuing up to give me the tales of how cyclists are the anti-Christ’s of the roads. Now whether I'm just more attuned to it now or not, to be honest I feel threatened enough that Santa is bringing me an action cam, which will be used on the commute as well as off road! Probably as a dash cam in the car too, there's that many rubbish drivers!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,220 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    By the way I don't think your criticism of someone dismounting at a central island is fair or reasonable.
    I only suggested that it was unpredictable.

    The genesis of many road incidents is someone doing something surprising.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    seamus wrote: »
    That's a bit disingenuous - there was one cyclist killed recently after he came off his bike when he hit an oil spill on a descent.
    Another hit a bollard on the way home from SOMEWHERE late at night with no lights. Oddly enough the news reports only brought up his lack of a helmet, and so far any other details about the incident have not been made widely available.
    Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in driver hostility towards cyclists, quite the opposite in fact. However, from what I can see driver behaviour has degraded quite seriously, drivers taking more risks and breaking more rules. This could be a result of increased traffic volumes causing frustration or it might be down to a reduction in enforcement.
    I also seem to be encountering more HGVs within Dublin than previously, though that may just be a seasonal thing.
    Same here, no increase in aggression, in fact, it seems to have generally lowered in my experience in terms of numbers, a few of the angry ones maybe louder but they do appear to be fewer. The small percentage of idiots on a bike or in a car seem to be getting stupider in there behaviour but that's about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

    Just because a cyclist had died due to being hit by a motor vehicle, doesn't automatically make it the fault of the motor vehicle.

    Cyclists kill cyclists too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Cyclists kill cyclists too.

    Really? When has that happened in Ireland? Last one I remember is a case in Enniskerry when two lads with girlfriends on their crossbars blew out their brakes coming down the hill from Knocknacree and crashed into the monument in the centre. Still remembered in Enniskerry as if it was yesterday, but I'm not sure when it was - 1930s?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭mal1


    Lumen wrote: »
    None of this happens to me. I commute about 150km a week through Dublin traffic.

    Maybe you're doing it wrong.

    Dismounting in the middle of the road in order to cross the opposite carriageway as a pedestrian is exactly the sort of unpredictable behaviour that contributes to incidents; maybe I misunderstood your account.

    Drivers cutting into the cycle lane in front of you, this never happens to you? It happens to me at least once a week when commuting. How can he be doing something wrong that causes a car to encroach on a cycle lane?

    I think his general comment in relation to drivers going out of their way to protest is valid. It's dangerous. A driver taking his attention off the road to protest is more dangerous than a cyclist doing likewise. Although nobody should do it but it's hard, i try and often fail.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I'm finding that the slower you go the more incidents you have. I am back on the bike after a while off it as slow as fcuk at the minute. The amount of bad behaviour from other road users has doubled at least (in my very unscientific, anecdotal experience) from my speedier usual. It's quite a bit scarier out there at 20-25kph than above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,352 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.

    Would you think it appropriate for someone to get out of a car or any other vehicle at a traffic island? I certainly wouldn't.
    Most of the rules of the road are there to make the behaviour of others predictable. All road users are constantly gauging the actions of others in order to make decisions about how they can safely proceed.
    The more obvious you can make your intended actions, the safer it is for everyone. Signaling right and moving across a lane approaching a junction reads as a right turn, not as the intention to come to a full stop and dismount. I'm pretty sure if a car had signalled right and either come to a stop to let someone out at that traffic island or indeed to make an illegal right turn, they'd have got the same treatment. It had nothing to do with your bike.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    This is probably the busiest time of the year traffic-wise, and there has definitely been a pick-up compared to recent years also. I am definitely finding a lot more motorists impatient and prepared to overtake when it really is not safe enough to do so, often causing them to cut back across way too early because of oncoming traffic.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Beasty wrote: »
    This is probably the busiest time of the year traffic-wise, and there has definitely been a pick-up compared to recent years also. I am definitely finding a lot more motorists impatient and prepared to overtake when it really is not safe enough to do so, often causing them to cut back across way too early because of oncoming traffic.

    Chatting to a friend who said the number of commercial vehicles on Dublin streets is up 53% on this time last year.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Would you think it appropriate for someone to get out of a car or any other vehicle at a traffic island? I certainly wouldn't.
    Most of the rules of the road are there to make the behaviour of others predictable. All road users are constantly gauging the actions of others in order to make decisions about how they can safely proceed.
    The more obvious you can make your intended actions, the safer it is for everyone. Signaling right and moving across a lane approaching a junction reads as a right turn, not as the intention to come to a full stop and dismount. I'm pretty sure if a car had signalled right and either come to a stop to let someone out at that traffic island or indeed to make an illegal right turn, they'd have got the same treatment. It had nothing to do with your bike.

    And where specifically does it state in the traffic regulation that you may not pull in on the right?

    In fact Ireland is somewhat unusual in permitting motorists to park on the right facing against the normal flow of traffic.

    Am I correct in recalling a large volume of cycle parking on the central island in Dublin's O'Connell St?

    Someone pulling up in a car at a traffic island might be open to the accusation of blocking other traffic. I fail to see how a dismounting cyclist represents such an obstruction.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Chatting to a friend who said the number of commercial vehicles on Dublin streets is up 53% on this time last year.

    That type of traffic is well identified as a threat to cyclists. Especially if its construction traffic.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    That type of traffic is well identified as a threat to cyclists. Especially if its construction traffic.

    I have observed that the greatest threat to some cyclists regarding this type of traffic is themselves. Common sense regarding road positioning would go along way.
    Speaking at the launch, Garda Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan said the new drug driving tests will save lives.
    Road deaths have increased over the last two years and all of us have a role in saving lives. I would ask all road users to think about how their actions – whether it is speeding or not putting on a seat-belt or not wearing a high-vis jacket – could end in a terrible tragedy.
    Christmas and the New Year is a time for family and friends. It should not be a time for dealing with the death of a loved one. Let’s all behave responsibly so everyone can enjoy it.

    FFS, even the Garda commisioner can't give sound advice. Hi vis in a city for cyclists works best around the ankle/lower leg area. That's where dims are pointing. Regardless of that, a proper set of lights, which are legally a requirement, would do the job nicely.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I have observed that the greatest threat to some cyclists regarding this type of traffic is themselves. Common sense regarding road positioning would go along way.


    Absolutely. the lack of awareness around HGV's by cyclists is stunning, I see it every single day I am on the bike and see the two together! It's been discussed before but there is a lot of education to be done on the cyclist side about HGV's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,352 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    And where specifically does it state in the traffic regulation that you may not pull in on the right?

    In fact Ireland is somewhat unusual in permitting motorists to park on the right facing against the normal flow of traffic.

    Am I correct in recalling a large volume of cycle parking on the central island in Dublin's O'Connell St?

    Someone pulling up in a car at a traffic island might be open to the accusation of blocking other traffic. I fail to see how a dismounting cyclist represents such an obstruction.

    So you see no problem coming to a stop in the middle of the road in moving traffic? Doesn't matter if it's a car or a bike. You move to the right to overtake or turn right, not to come to a stop.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    So you see no problem coming to a stop in the middle of the road in moving traffic? Doesn't matter if it's a car or a bike. You move to the right to overtake or turn right, not to come to a stop.

    You may have arrived in this thread from an alternate universe. In this thread, in this universe, nobody has said anything about stopping in the middle of the road.

    That said, in this country, if turning right or pulling in, you may lawfully carry out such a manoeuvre provided you signal in good time and in the prescribed manner.

    From my reading of the original post the taxi driver was not obstructed or impeded in any way, he just chose to take offence and to express that in a threatening manner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    gadetra wrote: »
    Absolutely. the lack of awareness around HGV's by cyclists is stunning, I see it every single day I am on the bike and see the two together! It's been discussed before but there is a lot of education to be done on the cyclist side about HGV's.

    HGVs don't belong in cities.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist



    That said, in this country, if turning right or pulling in, you may lawfully carry out such a manoeuvre provided you signal in good time and in the prescribed manner.
    .

    To extend the theme. On my commute there is a long right turn lane leading to a traffic light. Opposite this right-turn lane is a petrol station and shop.

    The right-turn lane serves both the traffic lights and for access to property.

    If someone is stopped in the lane waiting to turn into the petrol station, and the light is green, the drivers behind are not entitled to have a hissy-fit because they cant get to the lights.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭NeedMoreGears


    There is, in my view, some tension between what I am perfectly entitled to do as a cyclist and the level of risk involved in doing it.

    I'm not often very comfortable making a right turn (the example of the garage above is a good one) where I may have to wait in the middle of a lane/road before executing the turn. I'm never 100% confident a car coming up behind behind will stop. It's ok if I'm in a line of trafific waiting to make the same turn as I believe I have a better chance of being seen.

    Generally I tend to wait on the left where possible until the road is clear behind me and on front of me. This isn't always possible/practical, in which case I find myself looking behind me as much as on front.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It's probably a fair bit of "regression to the mean" after an anomalously good year. Make a click-bait headline out of that though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭Mercian Pro


    One aspect of this very sad death that surprised me was the fact that it was the first cycling fatality within the Dublin City area in 2014. Maybe slower driving speeds and the HGV ban are key factors. Anyone know where the other ten fatal accidents occurred?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    HGVs don't belong in cities.

    Yes they very much do. This has been discussed extensively on here before. They are a very necessary part of city life. Unless you want to pay double foe everything you buy within a cry there are supposed to be there. How cyclists interact with them is frequently appalling. You NEVER, ever, ever go up the inside of them, sit out in front of them at lights, or sit right on the back of them. I have seen and see this on a regular basis. The people skipping up by them one foot on the kerb to get in front of them at the lights just kill me every time. If cyclists knew how little a driver can see out of a cab there would me much more consideration given. There's nothing scarier than seeing a cyclist disappear from view from a cab only to emerge again - it happens all the time. It's so unnecessary. Yes not all HGV drivers are good, but they are the biggest, slowest moving vehicles on the road. You cannot miss them. They do an essential job. I think a bit of understanding on each side is really the answer.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Really? When has that happened in Ireland? Last one I remember is a case in Enniskerry when two lads with girlfriends on their crossbars blew out their brakes coming down the hill from Knocknacree and crashed into the monument in the centre. Still remembered in Enniskerry as if it was yesterday, but I'm not sure when it was - 1930s?

    I do not mean two cyclists crashing into one another. I mean cyclists killing themselves with idiotic manoeuvres, knowingly making stupid risks and putting themselves in incredibly dangerous situations.

    It's not just one factor or one category of road user that contributes to fatalities on the road. Everybody is responsible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    gadetra wrote: »
    Yes they very much do. This has been discussed extensively on here before. They are a very necessary part of city life.

    They're already banned in Dublin from 7am to 7pm; the world hasn't fallen:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0218/85889-dublin/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Unknown Soldier


    There is, in my view, some tension between what I am perfectly entitled to do as a cyclist and the level of risk involved in doing it.

    I'm not often very comfortable making a right turn (the example of the garage above is a good one) where I may have to wait in the middle of a lane/road before executing the turn. I'm never 100% confident a car coming up behind behind will stop. It's ok if I'm in a line of trafific waiting to make the same turn as I believe I have a better chance of being seen.

    Generally I tend to wait on the left where possible until the road is clear behind me and on front of me. This isn't always possible/practical, in which case I find myself looking behind me as much as on front.


    ^^^ This.

    Brilliantly put.

    You have to look out for yourself, regardless.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I am aware of that. I am also aware that the city would not function as it is without them. Understanding is key, on both sides. I rarely meet cyclists who understand what it's like driving around town from the inside of a cab. I have mentioned before, the guards had a unit parked up the middle of o connell street last year and invited pedestrians and cyclists up into it to see what it was like. More of that would help the situation massively. HGV's are not the enemy, education about them is. They are also essential, and drivers have to go through several tests to get a license, and do CPC's every couple of years (or less in some cases depending on what they're drawing). We have to share the road, understanding is key on both parts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Oscar-Gateaux, in my own experience some drivers are behaving very dangerously towards cyclists lately; there seems to be a propaganda war going on in which cyclists are the baddies, rather than fellow-road-users that someone driving three tons of metal should be lovely careful of.
    One example: I was cycling to Shamrokon, held in a hotel in Burlington Road, where a cyclist was killed a couple of weeks ago. I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.
    A taxi driver, assuming wrongly that I was signalling to make a right turn the wrong way down a one-way street, abandoned his duty to actually look at the road in front of him, and leaned out the window screaming back at me while swerving and blaring his horn.
    Even if I had intended to go down the one-way, this was none of his business. His behaviour was extraordinarily dangerous. And it's not unusual.
    I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.
    There's a huge attitude change, and it's dangerous.

    In at least one example that you cite, according to your own account, the cyclist concerned was breaking the law and in a particularly dangerous and reckless fashion.

    While road rage is never to be condoned, the failure of the authorities to do anything about illegal and reckless behaviour of a large number of cyclists is a factor here and I am not surprised that some motorists, albeit misguidedly, are driven to appoint themselves traffic police as the actual traffic police apparently are seemingly unwilling to bring the rogue cyclists to brook.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    porsche959 wrote: »
    In at least one example that you cite, according to your own account, the cyclist concerned was breaking the law and in a particularly dangerous and reckless fashion.

    rogue cyclists

    Breaking the law how? What law?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Breaking the law how? What law?

    ?
    I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    I have not noticed an increase in hostility. But whether I am cycling or driving I have noticed the following;
    A definite increase in all traffic. Roads in Dublin have been in my judgement 'very busy' since the early summer. All sorts of traffic including bikes.
    A definite increase in HGVs in town - on a daily basis I witness the five and six axel HGVs in breach of the ban. These are not Guinness trucks. The ban no loner matters - it's not enforced and HGVs drivers know this. They would rather gridlock at 8am than the port tunnel.
    Motorway traffic is busier in my view.
    Road behaviour is deteriorating. The penalty points for mobile phones does not seem to be an adequate deterrent. Pootling up the quays I regularly count the number of drivers on phones - usually 20+ over 2km.
    A few months back while driving down the country a woman driving behind me in the M7 was on her phone from the toll booth at Mountrath till the outskirts of Nenagh.
    Insurance statistics are pointing to an increase in accidents (down to increased traffic) but there are early indications of increased frequency.
    The road network is beyond saturation at this point. Ironically while car traffic is up, the odd morning I get the bus there is always a seat available - in 2007 there was no chance - buses were jam packed. My view on this is that the increase in public transport prices is having a definite impact on usage. It is cheaper to drive into Dublin and park for free than get the bus or train. I have driven from Kerry to Dublin more frequently this year because the price of the train is up by 65% in two years.

    All of this is contributing to more traffic and unfortunately more cyclist injuries and fatalities.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    ROK ON wrote: »
    I have not noticed an increase in hostility. But whether I am cycling or driving I have noticed the following;
    A definite increase in all traffic. Roads in Dublin have been in my judgement 'very busy' since the early summer. All sorts of traffic including bikes.
    A definite increase in HGVs in town - on a daily basis I witness the five and six axel HGVs in breach of the ban. These are not Guinness trucks. The ban no loner matters - it's not enforced and HGVs drivers know this. They would rather gridlock at 8am than the port tunnel.
    Motorway traffic is busier in my view.
    Road behaviour is deteriorating. The penalty points for mobile phones does not seem to be an adequate deterrent. Pootling up the quays I regularly count the number of drivers on phones - usually 20+ over 2km.
    A few months back while driving down the country a woman driving behind me in the M7 was on her phone from the toll booth at Mountrath till the outskirts of Nenagh.
    Insurance statistics are pointing to an increase in accidents (down to increased traffic) but there are early indications of increased frequency.
    The road network is beyond saturation at this point. Ironically while car traffic is up, the odd morning I get the bus there is always a seat available - in 2007 there was no chance - buses were jam packed. My view on this is that the increase in public transport prices is having a definite impact on usage. It is cheaper to drive into Dublin and park for free than get the bus or train. I have driven from Kerry to Dublin more frequently this year because the price of the train is up by 65% in two years.

    All of this is contributing to more traffic and unfortunately more cyclist injuries and fatalities.

    Have to disagree with that bit. I've been stuck getting buses for 3 months now and they're as busy as they ever were. But an awful lot more expensive. Rest if your post is spot on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Oh, yes, the cyclist going through the red light, Porsche959, you're right there; he was breaking the law.
    But have you noticed that drivers too are breaking red lights, something that would have been inconceivable a few years ago?
    I only *really* noticed this on a recent visit to London. Every time we'd come to a zebra crossing or a green light, I'd hesitate before crossing and check to see that nothing was coming, until my London-dwelling friends asked in a puzzled tone why I was doing this. "The light's red! The cars will stop!" they said. There was absolutely no possibility in their minds that they were anything other than absolutely safe if they stepped out onto a zebra crossing or to cross at a green light; there was no possibility that a car would not stop for the red light or the zebra crossing. As a Dubliner, I no longer had this assumption, which I would have had a few years ago.


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