Clostridium bacteria milk test.

Dawggone

Have a serious ongoing issue with the bacterial milk test.

Done all the usual suspects - water troughs, silage pits etc etc

Losses into thousands with no end in sight........solution needed.
TIA.

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

Have a serious ongoing issue with the bacterial milk test.

Done all the usual suspects - water troughs, silage pits etc etc

Losses into thousands with no end in sight........solution needed.
TIA.

Did You wash out your vaccum line lately anytime the tbc goes wrong here its usually the culprit, had it happen another time where the holding tank for the water for washing the parlour ended up growing algae had it up in the loft above the dairy which wasnt the greatest idea as it got very warm up their on hot days and it drove the tbc mental

frazzledhome

Dawggone wrote: »

Have a serious ongoing issue with the bacterial milk test.

Done all the usual suspects - water troughs, silage pits etc etc

Losses into thousands with no end in sight........solution needed.
TIA.

Dawg
Is it bacteria count or thermoduric?

We usually head straight to milk tank. Hard water here so lime scale can build. Descaler and then usual detergent. We now descale both tank and machine weekly as well as water softener

Prob no help but that's our experience

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Dawg
Is it bacteria count or thermoduric?

We usually head straight to milk tank. Hard water here so lime scale can build. Descaler and then usual detergent. We now descale both tank and machine weekly as well as water softener

Prob no help but that's our experience

Thermoduric.

Greengrass1

Dawggone wrote: »

Thermoduric.

Any dust on cows teats or anything? Vaccum line can cause it too I think

stretch film

Dawggone wrote: »

Thermoduric.

high strength acid wash, followed by a strong solution of a detergent/steriliser.
that's my usual plan of attack on a high thermo .
started using peracetic acid in the rinse water with the push away from chlorine .
a pre spray of a weak peracetic solution would blitz the teats , might be worth it for a day or two if your due a retest.

Mad4simmental

Change the rubberware in the dairy if you hadn't in a while.

frazzledhome

stretch film wrote: »

high strength acid wash, followed by a strong solution of a detergent/steriliser.
that's my usual plan of attack on a high thermo .
started using peracetic acid in the rinse water with the push away from chlorine .
a pre spray of a weak peracetic solution would blitz the teats , might be worth it for a day or two if your due a retest.

For Thermo as above with a question about tails. Are cows grazing or indoors. Is manure lose or solid?

Dawggone

I should explain further. This hits out of the blue. The fine is 6cpl and it just comes out of the blue, usually on grass.

The problem is Clostridium Butrique.

Why the tails Frazzle? Cows are loose enough as grazing a ryegrass/Luzerne mix and is very rich. Getting one kilo of good ryegrass hay to counter this.

warfie35

Check plate cooler

frazzledhome

Dawggone wrote: »

I should explain further. This hits out of the blue. The fine is 6cpl and it just comes out of the blue, usually on grass.

The problem is Clostridium Butrique.

Why the tails Frazzle? Cows are loose enough as grazing a ryegrass/Luzerne mix and is very rich. Getting one kilo of good ryegrass hay to counter this.

Right, any time we fail a Thermo is in July when cows hit after grass. Manure running through the grass hasn't spent enough time in gut to nuke the the bugger. He passes thru hits tail gets on teat and into tank.

That's why peracetic works well. Clean tails with a good per spray routine till dung firms up coupled with acid wash of machine. Rinse out and follow with detergent as hot as you can.

Thermo hits here out of the blue but I now think we have our finger on it so perhaps not so much out of the blue.

Milked out

As said above perhaps double check the pre milking routine to ensure teats are clean prior to clusters on. Using fresh detergent for each wash and paracetic acid in final rinse. Also would buffer feeding some of that cheap maize of yours help to slow down the rumen a bit and firm up the dung,? would go well with the rocket fuel in your paddocks

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Right, any time we fail a Thermo is in July when cows hit after grass. Manure running through the grass hasn't spent enough time in gut to nuke the the bugger. He passes thru hits tail gets on teat and into tank.

That's why peracetic works well. Clean tails with a good per spray routine till dung firms up coupled with acid wash of machine. Rinse out and follow with detergent as hot as you can.

Thermo hits here out of the blue but I now think we have our finger on it so perhaps not so much out of the blue.

Thanks Frazzle. You've got me thinking.
Phucking anal here about cleanliness but the cycle is starting to follow a pattern.....

Christ but you would have some holiday out of what's lost on this so far since February.

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

As said above perhaps double check the pre milking routine to ensure teats are clean prior to clusters on. Using fresh detergent for each wash and paracetic acid in final rinse. Also would buffer feeding some of that cheap maize of yours help to slow down the rumen a bit and firm up the dung,? would go well with the rocket fuel in your paddocks

Buffer feeding 8kgdm maize and 1kg hay.
Thing is they are not all loose. It's mostly first calvers that are freshly calved that are loose. But then that's the majority of the autumn calvers.
Milking well though.

frazzledhome

Dawggone wrote: »

Buffer feeding 8kgdm maize and 1kg hay.
Thing is they are not all loose. It's mostly first calvers that are freshly calved that are loose. But then that's the majority of the autumn calvers.
Milking well though.

Need to break cycle, feed, teats and machine. What's your limit in France.

Btw how's the Franco Canadian filly getting on?

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Need to break cycle, feed, teats and machine. What's your limit in France.

Btw how's the Franco Canadian filly getting on?

Best way to break cycle ? Attack on all fronts.....?
She's a find. Will be hard to hold onto. Lots of drive. Pleasure to be working with her. Seriously.

Limits? Loaded question.

The fine kicks in at 500spores/litre.

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

Buffer feeding 8kgdm maize and 1kg hay.
Thing is they are not all loose. It's mostly first calvers that are freshly calved that are loose. But then that's the majority of the autumn calvers.
Milking well though.

Would the change in diet from the pre calving period cause them to be loose or do you have a lead in period? Another thing altho unlikely seeing as they are milking well, would there be any chance of worms affecting the first calvers if they were out? Two unlikely scenarios but other than those can't think why they would be loose and not others

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

Would the change in diet from the pre calving period cause them to be loose or do you have a lead in period? Another thing altho unlikely seeing as they are milking well, would there be any chance of worms affecting the first calvers if they were out? Two unlikely scenarios but other than those can't think why they would be loose and not others

First calvers are the only ones loose. They are given a lead in of 10 to 14 days on forage maize. Maybe I need to introduce another form of fibre? The transition is definitely affecting them but no acidosis and milking very well.
Worms are not a problem.

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

First calvers are the only ones loose. They are given a lead in of 10 to 14 days on forage maize. Maybe I need to introduce another form of fibre? The transition is definitely affecting them but no acidosis and milking very well.
Worms are not a problem.

Would soyahulls be of benefit? Are you feeding much grain with the forage? Use straw here in the mix but I assume your hay would have a similar effect with the added benefit of having a better feed value

greysides

Is this the correct bacteria..

Clostridium tyrobutyricum is a spore-forming anaerobic bacillus identified as the main spoiling bacterium responsible for late blowing due to butyric acid fermentation in hard and semihard cheeses (11, 12). This fermentation results from the germination of C. tyrobutyricum spores due to the anaerobic conditions generated in the cheese during its production (11). Late blowing results in deformation of the cheese loaf, the possible release of a foul-smelling inflammable substance (butyric acid) on cutting and, in some cases, an undesirable rancid taste. Damaged cheeses also contain several heterogeneously distributed cavities corresponding to the volume of gas produced and mass digested. C. tyrobutyricum spores are highly resistant to environmental conditions and contaminate the milk before cheese production. The main sources of contamination are thought to be silage, water, or unhygienic animal bedding (13). Late blowing occurs mostly in cheeses made with unpasteurized milk, but pasteurized milk cheeses may also be affected. The distribution of this problem within the cheese factory is heterogeneous, with only some batches or certain pieces within a batch contaminated and most problems occurring in spring and autumn, when temperatures are mild and humidity is high (5).

http://aem.asm.org/content/73/11/3747.full

greysides

A bit of a struggle to read but you may find some hints as to source by reading through it.... last few pages in particular.

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/39470.pdf

Dawggone

greysides wrote: »

Is this the correct bacteria..

Clostridium tyrobutyricum is a spore-forming anaerobic bacillus identified as the main spoiling bacterium responsible for late blowing due to butyric acid fermentation in hard and semihard cheeses (11, 12). This fermentation results from the germination of C. tyrobutyricum spores due to the anaerobic conditions generated in the cheese during its production (11). Late blowing results in deformation of the cheese loaf, the possible release of a foul-smelling inflammable substance (butyric acid) on cutting and, in some cases, an undesirable rancid taste. Damaged cheeses also contain several heterogeneously distributed cavities corresponding to the volume of gas produced and mass digested. C. tyrobutyricum spores are highly resistant to environmental conditions and contaminate the milk before cheese production. The main sources of contamination are thought to be silage, water, or unhygienic animal bedding (13). Late blowing occurs mostly in cheeses made with unpasteurized milk, but pasteurized milk cheeses may also be affected. The distribution of this problem within the cheese factory is heterogeneous, with only some batches or certain pieces within a batch contaminated and most problems occurring in spring and autumn, when temperatures are mild and humidity is high (5).

http://aem.asm.org/content/73/11/3747.full

That's the one.

Dawggone

greysides wrote: »

A bit of a struggle to read but you may find some hints as to source by reading through it.... last few pages in particular.

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/39470.pdf

Thanks Greysides.

frazzledhome

greysides wrote: »

A bit of a struggle to read but you may find some hints as to source by reading through it.... last few pages in particular.

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/39470.pdf

So is my hunch right Greysides?

Anytime we fail us when cows are loose

greysides

frazzledhome wrote: »

So is my hunch right Greysides?

Anytime we fail us when cows are loose

Seems a logical conclusion.

The routine diagnostic method used by analytical laboratories for detecting C. tyrobutyricum spores is a long and difficult process....

The spores are a resistant resting stage of the bacterium. Apart from the obvious direct transmission, perhaps dried material, dust or dirt, could be transmitting them...............?

kowtow

frazzledhome wrote: »

So is my hunch right Greysides?

Anytime we fail us when cows are loose

We have a similar problem at the moment - ten or so cows including 3 heifers inside with their calves, temporarily on straw. We'll be putting them into the cubicle shed once they get the hang of the parlour and leave the calves in the straw shed.

Eating baled silage (wilted 24 hours, lateish June, came in very dry and baled in green wrap) and a couple of kg of nuts a day. Plus of course whatever straw they steal from the floor or the bales behind them.

They've been in a couple of weeks now but in the few days I can't get over the state of the place - put in half a heston bale of straw morning and evening but in an hour or so it looks as though they are standing in a slurry tank. The only thing I can thin k of is that a couple of the bales have had some white mould growing on them - although we take it off when we see it, can never be sure.

At this rate they are going to (1) be hitting the roof with their heads and (2) bankrupt me with straw costs.

Was thinking of turning them out into a close paddock for a few hours a day to ease the burden but now wondering is it clostridium and if so what is the best plan. Was hoping to avoid completely mucking out a shed two weeks into the winter!