Unacceptable delays at Portobello Bridge / South Richmond Street

Boulevardier

I understand that a contra-flow bus lane is being installed at Charlotte Way, and this will of course be good news for bus commuters coming from the city centre, especially in the evenings.

However, not only are the roadworks creating long and unacceptable delays inbound at Portobello Bridge and South Richmond Street, it seems to me that the current logjam may become permanent due to the reduction in avaliable inbound road space.

Does anyone know if the current logjam between Portobello bridge and Kelly's corner is due to be eased anytime soon, and if so, when?

ManAboutCouch

Signage in the area says that the current roadworks are due to end on 30th November.

LXFlyer

There will still be two lanes for turning right and one for continuing straight on so no change once the works are finished in terms of lane provision. The space being used for the bus lane is currently on-street parking.

Unfortunately you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

Given that the 14, 15/a/b, 140 and 142 are all to be re-routed via Camden Street & Georges Street in the New Year in both directions (and no longer serving St Stephen's Green), this bus lane is essential.

alentejo

I have noted that delays in the area are woeful. My wife has got out of the bus several times over the past few weeks and walked because its quicker.

Regarding the merits of the final road layout, DCC seemed to pick the worst time of year for these works. It is a disgrace. These works should have taken place during the summer.

Regarding the re-routing of buses down Camden street, I am only hoping that this is temporary and the 15's will still route down Stephens green once the Luas works are complete. If this a permanent re-routing seems to have been very little or no consultation on this move.

I have always had doubts about running Luas between the Green line and routing northwards towards O'Connell St. It seems that an awful lot of valuable road space for buses is being compromised for the lucky few who get the benefits of Luas.

LXFlyer

To be fair there is NEVER a good time to do roadworks, and you simply cannot schedule all roadworks on the summer. It's not logistically possible. The 65, 65b, 83 and 83a will all benefit too.

The diversion is for the duration of the LUAS works, and I understand that the plan is that the bus routes will revert to the current routing once they works are complete, sharing the roadspace with the LUAS.

As far as consultation is concerned, well I think it's a case of how can the buses best be kept moving - the only other option would have been to route via Kildare Street, Westland Row and Pearse Street, which I think would be far worse.

I would probably share your view regarding the project and the numbers benefitting from this over those being discommoded, but the decision was made so we have to move on.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair there is NEVER a good time to do roadworks, and you simply cannot schedule all roadworks on the summer.

+1 Credit where it's due, they started roadworks in Deansgrange in mid-October on Deansgrange Road to fix a messed up surface between the Monkstown Relief Road and the bottom of Stradbrook Road. Now it so happens that there is a fancy-dress hire place on that stretch of the road which seems to do 95% of it's annual business in the week before Halloween so I was dreading what the place was going to be like that week with cars up on the paths etc. but thankfully the folk in DLR Co Co decided that there was to be no roadworks in the week leading up to Halloween and the work was suspended for that week meaning that mega congestion was avoided.

Sometimes they do look at the calendar.

Boulevardier

My question is not entirely resolved. Once the works are finished and the new lanes are in use, is it not the case that inbound journeys will be slower on account of 3 lanes becoming 2?

BTW, I'm delighted to see that 15 etc buses will be going in via Camden St for a while. I have always thought that this is a much quicker route in the mornings. The poor Loreto girls are the main losers.

pclive

The section of roadway has four lanes:
1 will now be contra-flow
2 will remain right turn towards the LUAS line
1 lane instead of two will now head towards Camden Street

LXFlyer

Given that the two lanes going straight along Camden Street merged into one straight after the lights I don't think it will be an issue.

In over 30 years of passing along that stretch of road, I have never seen a tailback of traffic going onto Camden Street, the main problems were always going right, and two lanes are being maintained for that traffic.

dfx-

Boulevardier wrote: »

BTW, I'm delighted to see that 15 etc buses will be going in via Camden St for a while. I have always thought that this is a much quicker route in the mornings. The poor Loreto girls are the main losers.

It will be fun/mayhem in the evenings. I get the last outbound 68 and any night The Palace nightclub is open (Wednesdays recently in particular) or Fri/Sat it can take 25 minutes to get to the current set of roadworks. The 69N can make it to Clondalkin first ahead of it.

Very often the last northbound 122/83 and even 16 can still be on George's St waiting to turn on Dame St at 2340. Throw in the extra 15s and 140s and 15A/15Bs and it'll be even more fun...

LXFlyer

Unfortunately you're right about buses taking longer via George's Street. It's the downside of LUAS BXD construction. Far greater numbers of people who use the buses on the Rathmines and N11 corridors are going to be inconvenienced than will ultimately benefit from the LUAS extension. But then buses are always seen as the poor element of the network. Unlike trams, they're not sexy.

I understand new schedules are being drawn up to allow for the extended journey time on affected routes.

Boulevardier

I meant in the mornings. Camden St is way faster in the mornings.

LXFlyer

Boulevardier wrote: »

I meant in the mornings. Camden St is way faster in the mornings.

I know you were, and I responded to that in post #9. No - I don't foresee any problem in the mornings inbound.


The evenings outbound are a different kettle of fish, and I think it will take longer.

Aard

Is there any info online about reroutings of the 14, 15 etc down Aungier St?

LXFlyer

Not yet.

Plan is mid-January whenever the LUAS works start.

But it's fairly obvious given that second sets of RTPI poles are being installed along that route.

Carawaystick

Is there to be any curtailment of car parking on Camden st/Wexford St/Redmonds Hill/Aungier St/St Great Georges st as part of this public transport re-alignment?

LXFlyer

Well there are additional bus stops being installed along the route so it'll mean less parking where they are.

The Rathmines and SCR routes will have separate stops.

StreetLight

A 24-hour clearway between George's Street and Kelly's Corner would help immensely.

Boulevardier

Still (Thursday 4th) dreadful delays approaching Kelly's corner, and still plenty of cones about.

Yesterday (Wed) it took an hour to get from Rathmines to the city centre.

pclive

Bus or car journey Boulevardier?

LXFlyer

It does seem to be taking shape now - look there's no way around this unfortunately, as it has to be built.

cgcsb

Boulevardier wrote: »

Still (Thursday 4th) dreadful delays approaching Kelly's corner, and still plenty of cones about.

Yesterday (Wed) it took an hour to get from Rathmines to the city centre.

I'd have asked the driver to let me off and walked. It's barely a half hour walk, depending on where exactly the 'City Centre' is.

Boulevardier

It was the bus. I usually walk home from the city centre, but I it looks like will indeed have to walk in as well.

monument

StreetLight wrote: »

A 24-hour clearway between George's Street and Kelly's Corner would help immensely.

Or having mainly bus-only streets, with some access for drop offs etc.

LXFlyer

This work seems to be finished now with the traffic islands at the Camden Street/Charlotte Way junction and at South Richmond Street both complete.

Boulevardier

Yes, it is not so bad at the moment.

Lets hope it stays like that.

LXFlyer

I wouldn't expect any further changes until January when the route changes actually take place.

Aard

I haven't been through that part of town in a while - do you mean that the southside contraflow lanes are in place?

LXFlyer

Aard wrote: »

I haven't been through that part of town in a while - do you mean that the southside contraflow lanes are in place?

No - they'll do that the night before the route changes take place I would imagine. I suspect they'll use the same bollards as are in place on Kildare Street to delineate the lane.

All that has been done is to make the necessary alterations to the traffic island at the Charlotte Way junction to facilitate this lane being accessed in the future from Camden Streer, and a new island installed on South Richmond Street at the southern end of the future bus lane where traffic lights will be put in place.

dfx-

blockages due to additional temporary bus shelters/RTPI poles etc?

Boulevardier

Charlotte way / Kelly's corner awful again this morning (Monday 15th). Not sure why but it was.

Boulevardier

Another hopeless commute this morning. At a guess, it was 15 minutes from the canal to the Bleeding horse.

When is this re-routing of 14, 15 etc buses via Camden St due to start? I would say the sooner the better as far as the morning rush is concerned.

LXFlyer

January 18th.

Boulevardier

Great. Bring it on.

Hotblack Desiato

The state of the tarmac in the two right-hand lanes going past the hotel is pretty shocking, why wasn't it renewed? New lines painted on so I'm assuming it'll not be done at all now.

pclive

I'd imagine the current road markings are temporary and will be repainted when the road is resurfaced alongwith the roadmarkings for the contra flow bus lane.

Boulevardier

Inward traffic still doing pretty badly out of the deal.

I sat on a bus on South Richmond St for 10 minutes without moving an inch this morning. The problem is that there isn't enough room on the street for the traffic to sort itself into Camden St and Charlotte way lanes. They are stuck together right up to the lights.

alentejo

I think this re-configuration at South Richmond Street & Bleeding Horse area is not working well esp during the morning rush hour. On bad days it appears to back up bus traffic right back to Rathmines. The thru put of green light time is on the South Richmond - camden street axis is not sufficient to facilitate DB bus movements.

This re-configuration has certainly not been helped bus journey times.

stop

I travelled this recently. A 14 driver let 6 vehicles pull out of Lennox st onto Richmond street.
these vehicles then all queued up to join the rhs lane on Richmond st, leaving the 14 stuck for 3 cycles of the lights, all the while the lane towards Camden was clear ðŸ˜

Hotblack Desiato

It probably suited him to be delayed, so he could finish his shift at the terminus rather than have to do another journey.

HydeRoad

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It probably suited him to be delayed, so he could finish his shift at the terminus rather than have to do another journey.

Exactly this. There is an element in Dublin Bus operating like a rolling roadblock, adding to the congestion rather than relieving it. Overall management of the system, by Dublin Bus themselves, or in general by the city authorities, seems either unable or unwilling to forensically identify these kind of problems.

Is ANYONE actually monitoring this area, to see how it is all working, and how the little things may be tweaked to further relieve it? No, because nobody is monitoring anywhere else either.

AlekSmart

HydeRoad wrote: »

Exactly this. There is an element in Dublin Bus operating like a rolling roadblock, adding to the congestion rather than relieving it. Overall management of the system, by Dublin Bus themselves, or in general by the city authorities, seems either unable or unwilling to forensically identify these kind of problems.

Is ANYONE actually monitoring this area, to see how it is all working, and how the little things may be tweaked to further relieve it? No, because nobody is monitoring anywhere else either.

Have to contradict ye there HR...the "Joint" DCC/AGS/RPA/Stakeholder liason group have indeed been monitoring the situation.

However,as with all committee's,the original Horse end's up with two humps and becomes a Camel.

The essence of the problem is NO single over-riding agency having CONTROL.
The e-mails and memo's generated by this stuff are many and leigon,but until we get our TfL,it's all academic...therefore it's easier to take the lazy option and post oul nonsense like this....

It probably suited him to be delayed, so he could finish his shift at the terminus rather than have to do another journey.

Yea....Probably....no mention of the layout and design of the place,the availability of manouvering space,location of yella boxes,traffic signals,road markings,signage or any other applicable elements which MAY have inform a drivers decisions (apart from courtesy perhaps ?)...nah sure'n EVERYBODY knows otherwise...

I've given up carrying my Helicopter-Hat now,as I got little thanks for it...but it was ideal for lifting my bus up and over the traffic jams....:(

StreetLight

It's obvious from observing various bus priority systems across the city that they were designed by people who have never driven a bus in their lives.

Did it ever occur to these mandarins to get the opinion of those supremely qualified to input on what it takes to maneouvre a bus into a priority measure - the bus drivers themselves?

AlekSmart

stop wrote: »

I travelled this recently. A 14 driver let 6 vehicles pull out of Lennox st onto Richmond street.
these vehicles then all queued up to join the rhs lane on Richmond st, leaving the 14 stuck for 3 cycles of the lights, all the while the lane towards Camden was clear ðŸ˜

Most likely had this Busdriver NOT "allowed" the 6 motorists to enter Richmond St,we would have 6+ posts bemoaning the lack of courtesy from Busdrivers in general,given that they ALWAYS fail to give "Right of Way" to motorists ?

Hotblack Desiato

AlekSmart wrote: »

Most likely had this Busdriver NOT "allowed" the 6 motorists to enter Richmond St,we would have 6+ posts bemoaning the lack of courtesy from Busdrivers in general,given that they ALWAYS fail to give "Right of Way" to motorists ?

Weak. Have you any credible explanation for a bus driver willingly allowing thier bus (and passengers, let's not forget) to be needlessly delayed?

LXFlyer

The problem at this location is that the loading bay and parking spaces have been retained along South Richmond Street south of Kelly's Corner inside the contra-flow bus lane.

If they had been removed, then the southbound contra-flow bus lane could have been relocated closer to the kerb and potentially two lanes put in place for traffic turning into Charlotte Way from the traffic lights at the southern end of the contra-flow bus lane to the Bleeding Horse.

dfx-

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Weak. Have you any credible explanation for a bus driver willingly allowing thier bus (and passengers, let's not forget) to be needlessly delayed?

Why are people complaining about and creating conspiracies about shifts over a driver letting others in..would you like the bus to drive through them..

This is working very well at night it has to be said, last night was a big test with a big night out on Camden St, but my 68 made it to the loop onto Harrington St in the standard 15 minutes.

One problem northbound is the first new stop across from Cassidys where when a 14/15/15A/15B/140 is stopped, there is no room for a 9/16 etc to pass by between it and the cycle lane/bollards.

AlekSmart

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Weak. Have you any credible explanation for a bus driver willingly allowing thier bus (and passengers, let's not forget) to be needlessly delayed?

Weak...?

I could have several perfectly credible explanations for any number of scenarios,however you assume that Stop's post was written from your perspective.

I travelled this recently. A 14 driver let 6 vehicles pull out of Lennox st onto Richmond street.
These vehicles then all queued up to join the rhs lane on Richmond st, leaving the 14 stuck for 3 cycles of the lights, all the while the lane towards Camden was clear

Is Stop admonishing the Busdriver, or is he merely describing a scenario where the Busdriver was unable,for whatever reason to push ahead regardless ?

Looking at the Google Maps,one can see Stop's description only being applicable during peak hours,whereby 6 cars are not exactly going to make a lot of difference at all ?

If it's off-peak,it is difficult to see how those 6 cars could impede (ie:"Needlessly Delay") the Camden St bound 14,as they are over on the Right Hand side,aligned for Charlotte Way ?

What I'm taking from Stop's post is the rather obvious,and already referred to,lack of space on Richmond St itself from Lennox St to the Bernard Shaw pub...

The suggestion that a random Dublin Bus driver can somehow or other don a tinfoil hat,and magick-up space to allow the unimpeded progress of his vehicle is perhaps far-fetched,but nonetheless worth raising at the next DCC Traffic sub-committee meeting.

Whilst the general traffic situation in the area remains essentially shambolic,it sure as hell will not be solved as long as folk believe that Dublin Bus has some form of power or ability to physically alter the landscape.

Needlessly delayed....:rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Weak? Yes, weak, because you are deflecting and introducing irrelevant nonsense rather than address the point raised.

The key word in Stop's post is LET. Unless you can prove him/her wrong I shall take him/her at their word, they have no vested interest other than getting to their destination with a minimum of delay.

cdebru

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Weak? Yes, weak, because you are deflecting and introducing irrelevant nonsense rather than address the point raised.

The key word in Stop's post is LET. Unless you can prove him/her wrong I shall take him/her at their word, they have no vested interest other than getting to their destination with a minimum of delay.

Dublin bus drivers are taught and expected to drive in a non aggressive courteous manner. My reading is that the driver did not block the junction at Lennox street, that cars came out of Lennox street and unfortunately those car drivers not being as courteous as the bus driver continued to exit Lennox street even though their way was not clear and thus blocked the road, probably because most drivers dont drive in a courteous manner and they were afraid to miss their chance to exit Lennox street.

Non aggressive, courteous driving is the safest style of driving and associated with much lower levels of accidents and incidents and is exactly what you want of a driver of a vehicle with passengers standing, moving about and not provided with any restraints in the form of seat belts.

If the driver was being monitored by an unannounced plain clothes inspector, that is exactly how he would have been expected to drive.

alentejo

In general DB drivers are excellent.

For me, the issue is that this junctions has gone from bad to worse since the works and re-direction of bus routes.

Who is in charge here??