Property prices outside the Pale

Xios

Figured I'd look at property prices in various places outside dublin for look see, and for fook sake. Why the hell is anyone buying houses in dublin?

Jaysus, you can buy a bungalow a few miles from a town for the price of a new mondeo. Sure you're out in the sticks, but it just means you can kit out our house with all sorts of comforts, get a 'fan-she ciar' an all.

3 beds for 40k only a few miles from Tullamore and an acre of land to go nuts on. Dafuq are people thinking spending 300/400k on a semi-detached house with a load of jerks for neighbours.

Kintarō Hattori

It's grand to buy a house down the country....................... not so much if you live miles from work and spend half the day commuting. Not everyone wants to get up at 5am and home at 9pm.

Ush1

Spend your life commuting in a car to a house in the middle of nowhere you don't get to spend any time in.

Xios

Ush1 wrote: »

Spend your life commuting in a car to a house in the middle of nowhere you don't get to spend any time in.

The commute is about the same as that from commuter towns, like Enfield, Newbridge, Kilcock etc. Just use the rail network if you're working in the city centre.

anncoates

Xios wrote: »

3 beds for 40k

Wow.

Xios wrote: »

Tullamore.

Oh.

Ush1

Xios wrote: »

The commute is about the same as that from commuter towns, like Enfield, Newbridge, Kilcock etc. Just use the rail network if you're working in the city centre.

They aren't in Dublin.

Xios

Ush1 wrote: »

They aren't in Dublin.

I said outside the pale in the OP. Prices in the commuter towns are crazy high as well.

McGrath5

Xios wrote: »

Dafuq are people thinking spending 300/400k on a semi-detached house with a load of jerks for neighbours.

People place a very high value on living in a city where they are quite close to work.

I live only a 15 minute cycle from my job, its heaven.

Don Kedick

Close your mouth OP, we don't want any more Dubs moving down into real Ireland.

Xios

Even the 150/250k you save on the mortgage would let ya retire early or invest in all sorts of more useful things. You can retire 5-10 years earlier depending on your income with prices that different.

Greyian

Xios wrote: »

Even the 150/250k you save on the mortgage would let ya retire early or invest in all sorts of more useful things. You can retire 5-10 years earlier depending on your income with prices that different.

According to Google Maps, the distance for a worker to drive from Tullamore to work would be ~100km. So that would be a return trip of 200km per day.

That would be about ~€125 per week in petrol costs, or €500 per month. At current interest rates, on a 35 year mortgage, €150k lower principle would be ~€660/month. So a worker save about €150/month, at the low, low cost of about 40 extra hours per month in a car.

That doesn't seem like a great deal, and doesn't factor in that other car maintenance costs would also be higher, as a result of the distance travelled.
Any childcare costs would likely be higher, as the child would have to be dropped off much earlier in the day and collected much later.

Highflyer13

Im with you OP. Id love to set myself up so that I can work at home a couple of days a week, buy a nice house in the country for a fraction of the price (1.5hrs away from Dublin at most) and use the change to buy a nice car for the commute. Thats my plan anyway and over time build my palace in the country. Dublin prices are extortionate.I don't ever want that noose around my neck.

Xios

Greyian wrote: »

According to Google Maps, the distance for a worker to drive from Tullamore to work would be ~100km. So that would be a return trip of 200km per day.

That would be about ~€125 per week in petrol costs, or €500 per month. At current interest rates, on a 35 year mortgage, €150k lower principle would be ~€660/month. So a worker save about €150/month, at the low, low cost of about 40 extra hours per month in a car.

That doesn't seem like a great deal, and doesn't factor in that other car maintenance costs would also be higher, as a result of the distance travelled.
Any childcare costs would likely be higher, as the child would have to be dropped off much earlier in the day and collected much later.

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/

€2,100 Annual Commuter Rail, DART, Dublin Bus & LUAS. Live in house, drive to Train station. Worry free commute. Read a book, sleep on train, study for college or what have you. I don't think many people need to commute by car to the big schmoke.

Xios

Don Kedick wrote: »

Close your mouth OP, we don't want any more Dubs moving down into real Ireland.

MODS, please delete thread, i've been battered with hurls, bogged and feathered! Please, they won't stop!

SEPT 23 1989

Tullamore ffs:rolleyes:

Xios

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Tullamore ffs:rolleyes:

Just an example, ya could work in Cork, Galway, Athlone, Limerick or what not and have a much shorter commute.

SEPT 23 1989

are people really going to make this mistake again?

have you learnt nothing?

The Backwards Man

It's like 1997 all over again!



All the children laugh and shout,
For here comes Mickey's roundabout

Xios

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It's like 1997 all over again!



All the children laugh and shout,
For here comes Mickey's roundabout

Go on, tell us a tale of 1997.

valoren

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

are people really going to make this mistake again?

have you learnt nothing?

Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

It all depends on you job situation but even if that was sorted I would want to be within striking distance of a large town/city so all the usual places and somewhere like Tralee or Killarney because the tourism and the IT give you a good mix of people and good leisure facilities, plus I would like a costal county and somewhere with good hiking and hillwalking as well, then I would consider it.

Fr_Dougal

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

It's grand to buy a house down the country....................... not so much if you live miles from work and spend half the day commuting. Not everyone wants to get up at 5am and home at 9pm.

+1

I've done that commute, never again. You end up spending just as much by commuting by the time you've factored in fuel/toll costs etc... But the biggest cost is time, ~20 hours commuting to and from work really grates after a while, if there's an accident or road works, that'll add another hour onto the journey.

Dravokivich

Xios wrote: »

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/

€2,100 Annual Commuter Rail, DART, Dublin Bus & LUAS. Live in house, drive to Train station. Worry free commute. Read a book, sleep on train, study for college or what have you. I don't think many people need to commute by car to the big schmoke.

You do know there's a lot of complaints about the trains being packed and having to stand while commuting from Longford, Sligo, Athy? You are also aware that your job needs to be signed up to the Taxsaver scheme in order to be able to make use of it?

Far from the scene of comfort you are looking to promote.

Saipanne

Why not rent in tullamore for a year, as a test run..

seamus

Xios wrote: »

Just an example, ya could work in Cork, Galway, Athlone, Limerick or what not and have a much shorter commute.

And if your family and friends aren't in Cork, Galway, Athlone or Limerick? Or there aren't any jobs in those locations for what you do?

Prices around Dublin aren't high, "Just because". They're high because people want to live close to work, close to amenities and close to family and friends.

Sure, I could go live in Tullamore and find a job somewhere locally, but then if I want to see anyone I have to drive 100km back to Dublin. If I buy a house on some country road, we have to drive everywhere. Can't just walk out the gate and take the kids and dog for a walk along a road with no lines and an 80km/h limit.

Streetwalker

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

It's grand to buy a house down the country....................... not so much if you live miles from work and spend half the day commuting. Not everyone wants to get up at 5am and home at 9pm.

Buy a helicopter with the savings.

Xios

seamus wrote: »

And if your family and friends aren't in Cork, Galway, Athlone or Limerick? Or there aren't any jobs in those locations for what you do?

Prices around Dublin aren't high, "Just because". They're high because people want to live close to work, close to amenities and close to family and friends.

Sure, I could go live in Tullamore and find a job somewhere locally, but then if I want to see anyone I have to drive 100km back to Dublin. If I buy a house on some country road, we have to drive everywhere. Can't just walk out the gate and take the kids and dog for a walk along a road with no lines and an 80km/h limit.

I don't think being close to home is that big an issue with my generation, sure half of us fecked off to the other side of the planet for better opportunities, an hours drive is nothing in comparison.

Greyian

Xios wrote: »

http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/

€2,100 Annual Commuter Rail, DART, Dublin Bus & LUAS. Live in house, drive to Train station. Worry free commute. Read a book, sleep on train, study for college or what have you. I don't think many people need to commute by car to the big schmoke.

So I can drive to the train station, wait for a train, get on a packed train and likely have to stand (which will make sleeping, reading or studying a bit difficult), get off the train at Heuston, wait for a Luas, get on a Luas for about 20 minutes, then walk for about 15 minutes from the Luas to work.

Or, we'll take the route Google Maps suggests: Walk to train station. Take train. Get off train, transfer to bus. Transfer from Bus to bus 2. Transfer from bus 2 to bus 3. Walk from bus 3 to work.
Total time (each way): 2 hours, 30 minutes.
Total time (return): 5 hours.
So if I work 9-5:30, I'll wake up at 6am, get home at 8pm (assuming everything runs smoothly).

Allow for a current round-trip commute of 1 hour, and I'll save roughly €15/day, at a cost of 4 hours per day. I value my time somewhat higher than €3.75/hour.

Ush1

Xios wrote: »

I said outside the pale in the OP. Prices in the commuter towns are crazy high as well.

All I'll say is, Dublin is expensive for a reason and I hope you enjoy time by yourself in car.

Xios

Greyian wrote: »

So I can drive to the train station, wait for a train, get on a packed train and likely have to stand (which will make sleeping, reading or studying a bit difficult), get off the train at Heuston, wait for a Luas, get on a Luas for about 20 minutes, then walk for about 15 minutes from the Luas to work.

Or, we'll take the route Google Maps suggests: Walk to train station. Take train. Get off train, transfer to bus. Transfer from Bus to bus 2. Transfer from bus 2 to bus 3. Walk from bus 3 to work.
Total time (each way): 2 hours, 30 minutes.
Total time (return): 5 hours.
So if I work 9-5:30, I'll wake up at 6am, get home at 8pm (assuming everything runs smoothly).

Allow for a current round-trip commute of 1 hour, and I'll save roughly €15/day, at a cost of 4 hours per day. I value my time somewhat higher than €3.75/hour.

What's your normal commute like? I live in Lucan, My commute to work on a motorbike is 40 minutes each way (fastest commute possible). If i took a car that could easily reach 90 minutes. By bus it'd take 2 hours each way (lucan to UCD + 20 minute walk). That's from inside dublin to inside dublin.

Commutes will vary a lot depending on your place in dublin, but prices won't vary as much. So for the same commute time via public transport, I can have a house for 1/5th the price of dublin.

Greyian

Xios wrote: »

What's your normal commute like? I live in Lucan, My commute to work on a motorbike is 40 minutes each way (fastest commute possible). If i took a car that could easily reach 90 minutes. By bus it'd take 2 hours each way (lucan to UCD + 20 minute walk). That's from inside dublin to inside dublin.

Commutes will vary a lot depending on your place in dublin, but prices won't vary as much. So for the same commute time via public transport, I can have a house for 1/5th the price of dublin.

My normal commute is 25-30 minutes (each way) and I travel by car. It's ~13km each way.

cournioni

The missus used to commute into the IFSC from Dundalk every day for four years, took less time than her colleague living in Rathfarnham. We pay €700 in rent, the girl in Rathfarnham pays (paid?) €1,100 per month. The same rents apply out in Saggart where my brother was for a bit and it's pretty much out in the middle of nowhere.

Then again, Dundalk is technically inside the Pale in its traditional sense so I'm not sure if it counts towards what the OP is looking for.

seamus

Xios wrote: »

I don't think being close to home is that big an issue with my generation, sure half of us fecked off to the other side of the planet for better opportunities, an hours drive is nothing in comparison.

I'm pretty sure I am your generation

We do have an issue somewhat in Ireland in that we persist with the buy early mindset (back in the bubble days I remember guys of 22/23 being encouraged to buy themselves an apartment as soon as they can convince the bank to give them money), but we're not actually "settling down" until much later.

Thus, so many people have found themselves with properties that were great buys for a 22 year old with no responsibilities and who had plenty of places they could crash with mates, but suddenly they're 32 with one child and a second on the way, and suddenly life isn't even remotely as flexible as it used to be. And so they don't want to be getting up an hour before their children and getting home an hour after they go to bed, and spending hours in every weekend travelling to go anywhere.

And so a 3-bed semi-D within walking distance of shops & parks, a 45 minute bus trip from work and a 20 minute drive from grandparents, becomes more important than the extra money you may save by moving further out.

Some people spend their youth and time earning money for their retirement, but then they get to retirement and would gladly give up all the money they earned to buy back some youth and time.

Greyian

cournioni wrote: »

The missus used to commute into the IFSC from Dundalk every day for four years, took less time than her colleague living in Rathfarnham. We pay €700 in rent, the girl in Rathfarnham pays (paid?) €1,100 per month. The same rents apply out in Saggart where my brother was for a bit and it's pretty much out in the middle of nowhere.

Then again, Dundalk is technically inside the Pale in its traditional sense so I'm not sure if it counts towards what the OP is looking for.

How the hell was her colleague getting to work? The closest part of Rathfarnham to the IFSC is walkable in about an hour for a quick walker. Even the furthest parts would only be 25-30 minutes on a bike.

Smidge

To be fair OP, I just had a look at my.home and there was this......

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/pallas-durrow-tullamore-co-offaly/2779102

and this.....

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/property-at-folio-oy14149f-wood-of-o-tullamore-co-offaly/2994703

for that kind of money in the op.

I think I'll pass :P

Xios

cournioni wrote: »

The missus used to commute into the IFSC from Dundalk every day for four years, took less time than her colleague living in Rathfarnham. We pay €700 in rent, the girl in Rathfarnham pays (paid?) €1,100 per month. The same rents apply out in Saggart where my brother was for a bit and it's pretty much out in the middle of nowhere.

Then again, Dundalk is technically inside the Pale in its traditional sense so I'm not sure if it counts towards what the OP is looking for.

My sister lives out near Betty's town and commutes the same, she's very happy with living out near the coast and isn't phased at all by the bus commute in and out of dublin. And she's only an hour away from visiting all the family in and around dublin.

Dundalk is a busy town in itself though, with the college and good few businesses in the area.

Xios

Smidge wrote: »

To be fair OP, I just had a look at my.home and there was this......

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/pallas-durrow-tullamore-co-offaly/2779102

and this.....

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/property-at-folio-oy14149f-wood-of-o-tullamore-co-offaly/2994703

for that kind of money in the op.

I think I'll pass :P

Hah yeah, there's deffo sh*t boxes out there. Just saying, I'd be willing to take a lower paying job out in the midlands, sure i'd have a lower income, but the cost of living just seems substantially lower outside the pale. Commuting in and out of Athlone on a 30k salary would cost less than living in dublin on a 60k salary.

But there has been lots of good points about localities of family and amenities, which I understand are significant.

quadrifoglio verde

Greyian wrote: »

How the hell was her colleague getting to work? The closest part of Rathfarnham to the IFSC is walkable in about an hour for a quick walker. Even the furthest parts would only be 25-30 minutes on a bike.

Have you ever experienced the 16 bus at 8 O clock in the morning. I've walked into town from rathfarnham faster than the 16 would get you there.

Greyian

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Have you ever experienced the 16 bus at 8 O clock in the morning. I've walked into town from rathfarnham faster than the 16 would get you there.

Which is why I mentioned a bike. You could cycle from the M50 to the IFSC in 30-35 minutes tops...and it'd be cheaper than any commute from Athlone/Dundalk/Tullamore

SEPT 23 1989

Smidge wrote: »

To be fair OP, I just had a look at my.home and there was this......

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/pallas-durrow-tullamore-co-offaly/2779102

and this.....

thats like something out of a horror film

desertcircus

If you switch from a 30-minute commute to a 90-minute commute, you're paying to do overtime. Someone on 30k who gets to work in half an hour is earning 15 quid an hour for the time they're either in work or travelling to and from work. If that person moves to a place that requires a 90-minute commute, and if they need that Taxsaver ticket and nothing else, their earnings per hour drop to about 11 quid.

Xios

The point I was trying to make is.

A person willing to live and work outside Dublin is capable of affording their own property and have a decent standard of living on a Salary of 25,000-35,000, which I think is impossible in dublin a the moment. Anyone on that level of income is likely renting at 800-1000 a month or sharing to reduce the price.

My brother, who purchased property during the Boom, and has a family income of 70-90k per year is just barely getting by and still commutes an hour into dublin for work.

The commute in and out of dublin is a killer, but if you can get work outside the centralised location, then happy days.

SEPT 23 1989

they won't give a job to an "outsider" down in the sticks

they prefer to keep things local

Bio Mech

You seem to be slowly coming around to the realisation that your point just doesn't make sense for the vast, vast majority of people.

Greyian

Xios wrote: »

The point I was trying to make is.

A person willing to live and work outside Dublin is capable of affording their own property and have a decent standard of living on a Salary of 25,000-35,000, which I think is impossible in dublin a the moment. Anyone on that level of income is likely renting at 800-1000 a month or sharing to reduce the price.

My brother, who purchased property during the Boom, and has a family income of 70-90k per year is just barely getting by and still commutes an hour into dublin for work.

The commute in and out of dublin is a killer, but if you can get work outside the centralised location, then happy days.

I'd agree with some of your points there, but it is quite different from how you started the thread. Living and working outside Dublin is vastly different from living outside Dublin but having to commute. Commute costs (both financial and time-wise), as well as your overall quality of life, are massive differences between the two scenarios.

While the cost of living is higher in Dublin, it is also common to have higher wages in Dublin, which goes some way to offsetting those higher costs (though it doesn't fully).

Your brother's story doesn't really support your original post though. You said live outside Dublin, but commute in for work, would work out cheaper. But you're saying that's what he is doing, yet he is still struggling financially?
You're also factoring in a boom-time mortgage, which has no relevance to making the decision now to move out to the country, as you won't have to suddenly make payments on a boom-time mortgage.

It would be interesting to see what your brother's situation would be like, if he was to start working in the same field, in his local area. I'd imagine he might still find himself struggling financially (lower commute costs, but probably also a reduced wage), which would really suggest the problem is the boom-time mortgage.

I think, for most people (particularly those with young children), the best scenario is simply to live close to where you work, regardless of where that actually is.

valoren

Buy the house in Tullamore.
Stay mid-week in a city centre hostel.
Go home to tullamore at the weekends.

Xios

Greyian wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what your brother's situation would be like, if he was to start working in the same field, in his local area. I'd imagine he might still find himself struggling financially (lower commute costs, but probably also a reduced wage), which would really suggest the problem is the boom-time mortgage.

He lives in Dublin, not too far from me. He's only managed to afford the house because he didn't have to pay for child-care, living so close to the grandparents. Which is a + for dublin i spose. But that's situationally specific.

I agree, I veered off the main point, but this is After Hours, it's all about the chatter/banter, not serious debate.

But from my perspective and my current situation. I think the opportunity to afford a house (even if it is a fixer upper, which a lot of houses are) for 1,000 a month over 5/6 years. If I do get to start my new Career in the Gards, there is not a hope in hell could I afford a house in dublin without sharing it with a bunch of friends. Not even after 10 years service and a salary of 40k. So I'm going to actively be seeking to live outside dublin and work out there too.

Saipanne

Buy an apartment?

Greyian

Xios wrote: »

He lives in Dublin, not too far from me. He's only managed to afford the house because he didn't have to pay for child-care, living so close to the grandparents. Which is a + for dublin i spose. But that's situationally specific.

I agree, I veered off the main point, but this is After Hours, it's all about the chatter/banter, not serious debate.

But from my perspective and my current situation. I think the opportunity to afford a house (even if it is a fixer upper, which a lot of houses are) for 1,000 a month over 5/6 years. If I do get to start my new Career in the Gards, there is not a hope in hell could I afford a house in dublin without sharing it with a bunch of friends. Not even after 10 years service and a salary of 40k. So I'm going to actively be seeking to live outside dublin and work out there too.

I must have misunderstood your previous post, my apologies. I assumed "still commutes an hour into dublin for work" meant he was living outside the Dublin area, commuting into Dublin. I'm guessing he's living somewhere around the M50 then and commuting into Dublin city for work?

I wouldn't necessarily say the grandparents providing child-minding help is all that rare. All my friends/family who have had kids were also helped very regularly by grandparents (i.e. they didn't have to get any creche places, only montessori when they were ~3 years old).

I'd echo Saipanne though, why does it have to be a house. Just as an example, you get something like this: http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/13-cedarbrook-way-cherry-orchard-dublin-10/2559408 (I just happened to notice it because it was very near the train station, when we were discussing Tullamore).
Or, something larger: http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/32-mount-andrew-rise-lucan-co-dublin/2358837 (not many pictures though). If the new mortgage rules come in, that would basically be regarded as the max that a €40k salary could buy at 20% deposit (€36k + 3.5*40k = €176k, so you'd need an extra €4k deposit). However, if you needed a 4 bed, I'd expect you'd have a partner who would boost your borrowing capacity.

Senna

To anyone working in Dublin, have/would you look for work outside Dublin, would it be a plan some day to leave Dublin?
I know there is very little work anywhere at the moment, but obviously there is as big a workforce in Dublin as there is outside it, only spread over a large area.

Strongbow10

Its a shame theres no realistic way of redistributing some of the economy of the country across a larger spread of the country itself.

Dragging staff all the way into the middle of Dublin city centre, IFSC etc..... just so they can sit at computer screens/answer phones/work operations roles seems like insanity when they could easily do it from locations more convenient.

Its extremely lob-sided and creates economic inequality, not just in areas where theres a mass exodus of commuters, but also in the built up city itself where its getting more and more expensive.

Obviously, we lack proper infrastructure in alot of places out of Dublin, rail/broacband/airports etc.... but its not like the 3rd world on that front.

Would be a very backable government policy to "spread the load" so to speak, across the country. A vast majority of roles simply don't require you to be in the city centre.