Allsop Auctions thread

Tommy40

This is just a post to warn people of what is happening at Allsops auctions.
Just before Christmas there was a house sold in <Mod Snip> in good faith through a very reputable auctioneer. The house sale subsequently fell through.
After the house was sale agreed, it was discovered that there are many problems with the site maps and associated Folio's. I will not bore people with the details, but such is the severity of the problems with the titles and folios a bank will not approve a mortgage on the property and the chances of selling it on again are virtually nil.
As the house is being sold by a reciever they have now decided to put it up for auction in the next allsops auction (1st of July 2014) I would presume hoping someone will pay lots of money for it and not have their homework done and not know that any problem exists.
As you may or may not know once the Hammer falls in the auction room and you are the highest bidder there now exists a legal contract and the property is yours.

Auction date 1 st July 2014
Lot: <Mod Snip>

ArraMusha

Plenty junk in these auctions alright and others around the country. Everything from Boundary issues, squatters claims, structural issues, planning problems. Buyer beware.

TheDriver

Any idea of the type of junk by any chance??

The_Morrigan

TheDriver wrote: »

Any idea of the type of junk by any chance??

http://www.allsopspace.ie/

handlemaster

Would the OP be biding themselves not the first time a potential bidder tries to thrpw a spanner in the works.

makeorbrake

TheDriver wrote: »

Any idea of the type of junk by any chance??

All manner and means of muck. I viewed one place where the apartments had NO window in the front rooms - I repeat - no source of natural light whatsoever. That's before fire certification and planning compliance (as I doubt it was compliant in either case).


With others, its a problem with the paperwork end of things.


Auctions are a nightmare. Once you place your bid - if accepted - and you sign immediately then and there, you are then royally screwed should such type of issue arise.

You can of course get all these things checked out - at considerable cost to yourself. However, when you go and do this, you may not end up buying the property (you may be outbid). Furthermore, the initial outlay may serve to cloud ones judgement as regards just how far to go - price wise.

quadrifoglio verde

Allsop a are a liquidation type auction specialist so you're going to get some junk. However at the same time you'll get some bargains provided you know what you're at.
The rules of an auction apply to allsops, set a price above which you won't bid, get a surveyor in to do a structural, get your solicitor to check everything is up to scratch.
If there's legal issues with regards planning, boundaries, etc someone who knows what they're doing can make nice money. However at the same time, you'll get fools who don't know what they're doing and just see cheap property and then find themselves up **** creek. As the saying goes a fool and his money are easily parted.
If someone buys a lemon at a property auction, they deserved it. They clearly didn't do their homework.

Victor

Tommy40 wrote: »

After the house was sale agreed, it was discovered that there are many problems with the site maps and associated Folio's.

At every auction, you are meant to do your research beforehand. Any one who acts otherwise is acting very foolishly.

Tommy40

I think it is absolutely disgraceful what is happening. The auction house is not necessarily to blame they are only facilitators, I think the real blame lies with the recievers. They are trying to get as much money as they can for properties that they know have huge issues with them and that are virtually unsaleable again. They knowingly trying to catch people.

makeorbrake

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

If someone buys a lemon at a property auction, they deserved it. They clearly didn't do their homework.

Yes, and to do your 'homework' costs $$. So - you do this - and then have no guarantee of being the eventual purchaser of the property. Furthermore, this has to be done in a timely manner - as there isn't a whole lot of time between the release of the auction catalogue and auction day (this isn't coincidental!).


For that reason, private treaty sale is very much preferable.

I think it is absolutely disgraceful what is happening.

It's not been any different than at any other time in the past. This has always been the way of auctions. Ideally, simply don't buy at auction - end of!

Tommy40

Tommy40 wrote: »

I think the real blame lies with the recievers. They are trying to get as much money as they can for properties

That is their job - if there are problems with the property - caveat emptor.

quadrifoglio verde

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, and to do your 'homework' costs $$. So - you do this - and then have no guarantee of being the eventual purchaser of the property. Furthermore, this has to be done in a timely manner - as there isn't a whole lot of time between the release of the auction catalogue and auction day (this isn't coincidental!).


For that reason, private treaty sale is very much preferable.




It's not been any different than at any other time in the past. This has always been the way of auctions. Ideally, simply don't buy at auction - end of!

You're playing with big boys, if your not happy play tiddlywinks instead.

Mike Tobacco

Auctions are designed for sophisticated investors who know what they are doing and who have the experience, knowledge and resources to appropriately research the property on offer and what potential remedies may be required for any issues. Issues with title etc can often be solved, however usually with significant additional outlay after purchase. Investors do their homework and factor this into the price they are willing to go to in the auction.

There's no point giving out about the receiver. They are just looking to get a sale (which will be far more difficult to achieve by private treaty) for the maximum possible amount - which is more likely to come from sophisticated investors seeing an opportunity rather than average joes looking for a bargain.

People who know nothing about property (or properties with issues) shouldn't be there, unless they have received full professional advice beforehand. If you knew nothing about art or antiques would you go and bid at those auctions looking for a bargain?

makeorbrake

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

You're playing with big boys, if your not happy play tiddlywinks instead.

tiddlywinks, is it?
"Mike Tobacco" called it right in his post. If someone is prepared to factor in these costs, then thats fine. For the rest of us who are not 'big boys' as you put it, we don't have to play tiddlywinks - just stick with private treaty sale.

The_Conductor

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

You're playing with big boys, if your not happy play tiddlywinks instead.

Please read the forum charter.
Do not personalise your posts.
Condescending language like this- is not appropriate or appreciated.

Thankyou.

handlemaster

What are the rules for buyers ?

Does the buyer pay a fee ?

hfallada

All of these details are available from Allsops

handlemaster

That be true. But not mention on website

hfallada

http://allsopspace.blob.core.windows.net/content/documents/buying-at-auction.pdf

Crimsonforce

Just watching the stream of this auction. These guys are parasites. He is saying going going gone, then stopping and saying anybody ,anybody else and a pause if a minute or so.. Trying to push the price up...

gaius c

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Just watching the stream of this auction. These guys are parasites. He is saying going going gone, then stopping and saying anybody ,anybody else and a pause if a minute or so.. Trying to push the price up...

That's how auctions work.

NewCorkLad

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Just watching the stream of this auction. These guys are parasites. He is saying going going gone, then stopping and saying anybody ,anybody else and a pause if a minute or so.. Trying to push the price up...

You almost make it sound like an auction, disgusting.

Crimsonforce

NewCorkLad wrote: »

You almost make it sound like an auction, disgusting.

I think the manner of it. If its going going gone,its gone. Its not going going ,ah come on and then a minute waiting talking about it.. Then saying going again...

NewCorkLad

Crimsonforce wrote: »

I think the manner of it. If its going going gone,its gone. Its not going going ,ah come on and then a minute waiting talking about it.. Then saying going again...

They are trying to maximise the return for the seller, I see nothing wrong with that.

Crimsonforce

NewCorkLad wrote: »

They are trying to maximise the return for the seller, I see nothing wrong with that.

Which is the bank ,not a seller.

kstand

handlemaster wrote: »

What are the rules for buyers ?

Does the buyer pay a fee ?

We were selling my late uncles house with Allsops just before Christmas her ein London.
The seller pays the fee.

NewCorkLad

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Which is the bank ,not a seller.

The bank is also a seller, and the more allsop receives for the property the better it is for the previous owner as they owe the bank less. Also not all properties being sold, are coming from banks.

handlemaster

Its a free market.

gaius c

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Which is the bank ,not a seller.

So? The more money the bank get for it, the lower the shortfall for the borrower.

ted1

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Just watching the stream of this auction. These guys are parasites. He is saying going going gone, then stopping and saying anybody ,anybody else and a pause if a minute or so.. Trying to push the price up...

That's how auctions work.

ted1

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Which is the bank ,not a seller.

If the bank don't recover the debt owed then the balance must be made up by the original owner. What point are you trying to make

stevedublin

Can someone bit at the auction with mortgage approval (not cash in the bank)

Cathmandooo

stevedublin wrote: »

Can someone bit at the auction with mortgage approval (not cash in the bank)

Yes but you need to a binding offer from the lender, they'll have a bank survey carried out before the auction takes place so your funds are ready to go.

stevedublin

Cathmandooo wrote: »

Yes but you need to a binding offer from the lender, they'll have a bank survey carried out before the auction takes place so your funds are ready to go.

thanks, is this commonplace or are most buyers at auctions cash buyers?

ted1

The hotel in Donegal was a steal. Some one grabbed a bargain

Eldarion

stevedublin wrote: »

thanks, is this commonplace or are most buyers at auctions cash buyers?

Yes most of the time. It's a lot of effort to get approval in place for a mortgage for a single lot at an auction. If you were in the cash game you'd be looking at bidding at a few lots where as with a mortgage you're really stuck to bidding on only the lot you have the mortgage approved for.

ted1 wrote: »

The hotel in Donegal was a steal. Some one grabbed a bargain

I saw that myself! Lot 29, it's really eye opening when you compare it to lot 18. A ****ty ground floor retail space costs the same as a 71 bedroom hotel with a spa.

Location Location Location I suppose...

gaius c

ted1 wrote: »

The hotel in Donegal was a steal. Some one grabbed a bargain

Not really. It's in Donegal. When you've only 10 of the 71 rooms occupied and still have to heat all the common areas, you might have cause to regret the price paid.

handlemaster

http://www.allsopireland.ie/auction/past


sold lots for auction were 69% as from their own report going back to oct 2013 its never been this low. Is this a sign of a dip ? there were alot of out of city lots could perhaps explain it.

gaius c

http://www.thejournal.ie/allsops-auction-46-houses-sold-2061595-Apr2015/

Robert Hoban, Director of Auctions at Allsop said that a number of units failed to sell because the owners were asking for too much.
The market is much more price sensitive than it was at our February auction. While we witnessed strong prices for properties in good locations, a number of secondary properties failed to sell because they were overpriced.

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/allsops-auction-46-houses-sold-2061595-Apr2015/

perhaps they should have advised the sellers better. but then theres no telling some people

gaius c

handlemaster wrote: »

perhaps they should have advised the sellers better. but then theres no telling some people

That's not Allsops' job. Their role is to sell the lots given to them.

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

That's not Allsops' job. Their role is to sell the lots given to them.

they guide sellers on what to ask for

The_Conductor

Commercial was always going to be stronger though- investors are out of the residential market- a year ago they would have bought the bulk of residential properties at the Allsop auctions. Tax treatments alone- have effectively removed investors from the residential market.

lcwill

Normally the Independent and Irish Times are full of news about the latest Allsop auction - noticeably silent today. I'd say Allsop weren't sending out too many press releases.

ted1

They used to be full of repossessions, receiver sales so the reserve was pretty low. There's less of them and more people trying to cash in, on a buoyant Market so reserve is significantly up

Also investors where looking for a bargain in a bottomed out market. The market if buoyant so it's not attractive to investors

The_Conductor

ted1 wrote: »

Also investors where looking for a bargain in a bottomed out market. The market if buoyant so it's not attractive to investors

Limiting LTV ratios for investors to 70% has probably had more impact than any other one factor on investor demand. Actual prices- and the lack of a risk yield in current rental income (esp. important in the Irish market)- don't help matters.

The letting market is dysfunctional in the extreme- not helped one iota by the perceived delays with PRTB adjudications- which is recognised and abused by a minority of tenants.

hfallada

ted1 wrote: »

They used to be full of repossessions, receiver sales so the reserve was pretty low. There's less of them and more people trying to cash in, on a buoyant Market so reserve is significantly up

Also investors where looking for a bargain in a bottomed out market. The market if buoyant so it's not attractive to investors

They have sold repossessed houses in over a year, as you generally got more money at a private treaty for a decent house

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-mortgage-holders-association-alsopp-auctioneers-reposessions-1083275-Sep2013/

The market still over an excellent return. Most Eurozone shares are at record highs, but the dividends are fairly weak. You can still get a 10% ROE on some properties in Dublin city. That something you cant get anywhere near on the stock market

kstand

Wondering if anyone has come across a situation like this before.

A relative passed away last year and his house went up for sale at an Allsops auction just before Christmas - the house had a sitting tenant. The reserve price was not met at auction.
Since then the tenant has been evicted (tried to claim he had protected rights but he did not) and a good offer has come in from one of the people who bid at auction before Christmas.
The house was her grandparents going back 2 generations and she knows and lives in the area and was interested as soon as she knew the house was up for sale.
My question is this - can Allsops still charge a commission fee?

Uno my Uno.

kstand wrote: »

Wondering if anyone has come across a situation like this before.

A relative passed away last year and his house went up for sale at an Allsops auction just before Christmas - the house had a sitting tenant. The reserve price was not met at auction.
Since then the tenant has been evicted (tried to claim he had protected rights but he did not) and a good offer has come in from one of the people who bid at auction before Christmas.
The house was her grandparents going back 2 generations and she knows and lives in the area and was interested as soon as she knew the house was up for sale.
My question is this - can Allsops still charge a commission fee?

DEpends on the contract between the sellers of the house and Allsops

The_Conductor

You need to examine the contract you had with Allsops.
Also- how did the offer come from the party after the tenant was evicted?
Was it conveyed directly- or via Allsops (or another party).
If the person went to Allsops- you're going to have some fight to get away without paying them a commission.......

Step 1- find the contract with Allsops.

kstand

The_Conductor wrote: »

You need to examine the contract you had with Allsops.
Also- how did the offer come from the party after the tenant was evicted?
Was it conveyed directly- or via Allsops (or another party).
If the person went to Allsops- you're going to have some fight to get away without paying them a commission.......

Step 1- find the contract with Allsops.

Yep - doing that now.
The offer did not come through Allsops.The subsequent offer is higher than the reserve price the day of the auction - plus the party intending the buy the house are local and knew it would be for sale prior to knowing it would be going under the hammer at Allsops. They did bid at the auction itself.