Help me understand........the MkI & II Escort.

SpitfireIV

Can someone please explain to me what the appeal is with the MkI and II escorts? Now, I understand 'each to their own' and all that, but, what is the big draw/attraction/rediculously high prices all about? I see rusty shells and wrecks on DD going for thousands!

Style wise they, well, they dont have any style to speak of? Performance? Perhaps, after you pump a $hit load of money into them, or, you could paint it orange and stick some black stripes and a 'MEXICO' decal on the side.

Like I say, dont mean to offend any Escort lovers, so, help banish my ignorance and perhaps I might appreciate them a little more!


"Bejaysus, I'll sch'tick her on donedeal and get five gran!" :pac:

corktina

Rally heritage..next question.

CianDon

Its just a cult car in the Irish psyche straight out. Its up there with the Twincams of cars that people have a fascination with owning, driving, building and maintaining. Obviously, the passage of time, poor manufacturing standards, decades of use and tin worm cause numbers to fall causing the prices to rise. Original AE86's in top knick are starting to push €15,000 and its the same with the Escorts. No car since then has really caught on in such a way with enthousiasts like the Mini, Escort, Corolla or Beetle

ianobrien

....MUST.......NOT......FEED.........THE........TROLL...........

endacl

ianobrien wrote: »

....MUST.......NOT......FEED.........THE........TROLL...........

Ah c'mon. Have you not read his spitfire resto thread? He's too into cars to troll!

ianobrien

endacl wrote: »

Ah c'mon. Have you not read his spitfire resto thread? He's too into cars to troll!

Ya, and I don't go on here going "Whats up with people wanting to own a Spitfire and going to all that effort so save a piece of BL junk?" No

If I don't see the fascination or the demand for a particular car I keep my trap shut, not start threads like that and word it so it appears as a troll.

BreadnBuddha

Educate yourself....

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/for-the-love-of-cars/on-demand/57591-001

SpitfireIV

ianobrien wrote: »

Ya, and I don't go on here going "Whats up with people wanting to own a Spitfire and going to all that effort so save a piece of BL junk?" No

If I don't see the fascination or the demand for a particular car I keep my trap shut, not start threads like that and word it so it appears as a troll.

I did admit that I was ignorant to their appeal and was looking to hear just why they are so highly regarded; to be educated Cant one have an opinion on a car?

endacl

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

I did admit that I was ignorant to their appeal and was looking to hear just why they are so highly regarded; to be educated Cant one have an opinion on a car?

Yes. Unless it's a positive opinion, and the car is a Fiat or French.

:pac:

Honey Monster

What's the deal with airline food.

Filmer Paradise

The rally boys love them old Escorts.

A whole industry has spawned providing restorations, spares, aftermarket mods etc, for these cars.

Mind you, it's the 2 door ones that command the money. (The 4 door ones don't have the same structural rigidity).

Prefer the Capri myself.:cool:

carchaeologist

The Chevette/Kadett was a far better car technically.
The Escort was just driven faster down the forestry track.
It's like the Subaru Impreza, a car that was not exactly well screwed together either, also had the Rally effect applied to it.

red_ice

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Educate yourself....

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/for-the-love-of-cars/on-demand/57591-001

I really wouldnt advise their work to be considered for educational purposes! The job they did with their mini cooper was a complete joke! It had to be rebuilt after the show as it was a laughing stock. I know this because I've met some of the lads who were there at the end of the show in their cooper / cooper S.

jca

carchaeologist wrote: »

The Chevette/Kadett was a far better car technically.
The Escort was just driven faster down the forestry track.
It's like the Subaru Impreza, a car that was not exactly well screwed together either, also had the Rally effect applied to it.

The Kadette maybe but the Chevette was terrible. I fail to see the attraction of those Escorts too...

macplaxton

corktina wrote: »

Rally heritage..next question.

jca wrote: »

but the Chevette was terrible.

Shove-its weren't that terrible.

BreadnBuddha

red_ice wrote: »

I really wouldnt advise their work to be considered for educational purposes! The job they did with their mini cooper was a complete joke! It had to be rebuilt after the show as it was a laughing stock. I know this because I've met some of the lads who were there at the end of the show in their cooper / cooper S.

Can you point me at a discussion or anything online to verify that assertion? If it was that bad, I'm sure someone involved in putting it right has written about it.

The reason for suggesting that episode is that it goes into some detail about the appeal of the marque and model, but now you've brought it up, it'd be nice to see something else about the mini. It can't have been that bad, can it?

unfit2006

As above, I would be interested in any further background information on the Mini Cooper resto. I actually liked that particular episode of the series.

DaveCol

unfit2006 wrote: »

As above, I would be interested in any further background information on the Mini Cooper resto. I actually liked that particular episode of the series.

The latest edition of Mini Magazine seems to suggest it has been rebuilt:

http://www.minimag.co.uk/2014/11/21/december-issue-out-now-3/

unkel

DaveCol wrote: »

The latest edition of Mini Magazine seems to suggest it has been rebuilt:

http://www.minimag.co.uk/2014/11/21/december-issue-out-now-3/

Where in your link does it say it has been rebuilt?

I found this link on a Mini Mk1 forum:

Linky

They seem to think only some minor details were wrong in the eye of a purist as far as I can see...

DaveCol

unkel wrote: »

Where in your link does it say it has been rebuilt?

I found this link on a Mini Mk1 forum:

Linky

They seem to think only some minor details were wrong in the eye of a purist as far as I can see...

Front cover: TV Star Morris Cooper Fondly Rebuilt...Twice

red_ice

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Can you point me at a discussion or anything online to verify that assertion? If it was that bad, I'm sure someone involved in putting it right has written about it.

The reason for suggesting that episode is that it goes into some detail about the appeal of the marque and model, but now you've brought it up, it'd be nice to see something else about the mini. It can't have been that bad, can it?

Nothing online, this was said in person. I heard on reveal day that it wasnt any use. Passable to the public, but anyone who knows a thing or two about cars would laugh. They used loads of parts that wernt period, just short of putting electric windows in. I even think they had seatbelts in the thing, which I'm confident is wrong as our previous 64 S didnt have them, either does our current one... maybe that was a different feature in a standard cooper and wasnt in the S? I don't really know much about them so from looking at the video there I wouldnt be able to point them out, but aprently its all wrong.

The car sold for silly money (20k i think), but it was only after someone who knew the cars inside out got their hands on it.

Still good tv tho!! Which is what its all about

Tzar Chasm

The 'compliants' about the mini seem to me to be nothing more than the adenoidal witterings of a bunch of 'purists' or as we refer to them round here W*nkers. God forbid they improve the vehicle in any form.

OT I really limed the episode wbout the escort

BreadnBuddha

Yeah, I read that thread, all 10 pages of it.

They whinged about geographical inaccuracies, the fact that some of them weren't shown on the final programme despite putting time into filming bits and about how things like safety handles and seatbelts had been fitted.

I can't see where there's anything that really stands up to scrutiny as a valid quibble, unless you want total originality and nitpick about anything that wasn't done when the car was first built and modified. There's mention about the wrong airfilter type being fitted and about chrome missing somewhere or other. They also complained about more modern suspension being fitted and how it wasn't correct and even about fitting polybushes.

I don't get that kind of thing as it looked really well and had a few things that could be and maybe were changed by the new owner but there was nothing that was just plain wrong about it. Well done to the men who rebuilt it. What a lovely job and much better to see it like that than sitting rotting in a damp and cold shed on the northside.

DaveCol

I take back my comments above. It turns out not to be THE car, but another one that appeared in the programme

pablo128

Ah d'oul Escorts. I drove a good few back in the day. Slow as fcuk, even the 1.6 models. Yeah they were rear wheel drive, but they hadn't the power to go around.

I will admit to absolutely loving watching them in the rallies with the arches and all the bits, going sideways to bate the band. Even the missus watches when they're on.

red_ice

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

The 'compliants' about the mini seem to me to be nothing more than the adenoidal witterings of a bunch of 'purists' or as we refer to them round here W*nkers. God forbid they improve the vehicle in any form.

OT I really limed the episode wbout the escort

Well I think you're not as well populated on these forms as you think, some people would think people who do that to the car aren't improving it, they're vandalizing it. There's only a handful of them left, if you want to 'improve' on it, do it with something that wont destroy the heritage of a car. Thats a piece of history that they have in their hands. Also you're being a bit of a w*nker yourself generalizing people like that.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

They whinged about geographical inaccuracies, the fact that some of them weren't shown on the final programme despite putting time into filming bits and about how things like safety handles and seatbelts had been fitted.

Isnt the show called 'for the love of cars' and dont they tend to harp on about doing the car justice and making it a real period piece, doing it 'propah'? Ye know, how yer man tried to make a pigs ear of the escort before it had even started.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I don't get that kind of thing as it looked really well and had a few things that could be and maybe were changed by the new owner but there was nothing that was just plain wrong about it. Well done to the men who rebuilt it. What a lovely job and much better to see it like that than sitting rotting in a damp and cold shed on the northside.

I'm not denying that the car didnt look well, its just not a good example of a period mini, which is what most of the mini community would be interested in when it comes to a mk1. The new owner didnt change it, it was changed before the chap bought it! Maybe I was a bit harsh saying it was a joke so I'll take that back. Obviously, it takes a lot of talent to do something like that.

The show aims to get a car and sell it on to make profit right? If they didn't make those modifications people like Tzar Chasm consider an improvement, they would have done so. I'd be interested to know how many mk 1 mini's (let alone a cooper or a cooper S) Tzar has and what condition they are in. My point being, most people who are into minis and are willing to spend money on one and wouldn't be interested in their rendition of an 'improved' cooper.

Tzar Chasm

Hmm, hit a nerve have I ?

heres a hypothetical for you, let's say you find a BL mini, its a friday afternoon car, its been cobbled together atrociously there are bolts loose/missing, some of the electrics were never wired up and the steering is so badly out of line that the car is going sideways.
according to your logic this sh1tbox is unique and should be preserved EXACTLY as it left the factory, ie piss poorly constructed and crabbing sideways.

I am of the opinion that technology has improved immensely in the years since the car was designed, if newer materials improve the reliability/performance/safety of the vehicle then they Should be fitted

red_ice

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Hmm, hit a nerve have I ?

Well, yea, you're calling people names on a forum for having an opinion. Which is kind of sh*tty of you. I was asking about what cars you have to see if you've put your money where you mouth is. I've put my money where my mouth is and its paid off. My current 1071 cooper S is only getting started, and that will be done the same way. I've sunk nearly 35k sterling into my escort twin cam, and I intend on maintaing its heritage in every single detail. If you think making those improvements will be worth while on that project, financially, you're in a dream land. It'l be the difference between a twincam costing 40k sterling and a twincam costing upwards of 60k. People who are interested in spending money on cars want the real thing.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

heres a hypothetical for you, let's say you find a BL mini, its a friday afternoon car, its been cobbled together atrociously there are bolts loose/missing, some of the electrics were never wired up and the steering is so badly out of line that the car is going sideways.
according to your logic this sh1tbox is unique and should be preserved EXACTLY as it left the factory, ie piss poorly constructed and crabbing sideways.

No, according to my logic the car should be repaired with period parts, preferably new old stock, and what was available in its day if its to be modded. Mod it all you like, as long as its right for the period. Would think going to the history museum to see a statue of a caveman with an iPhone in his hand is accurate? Hardly.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I am of the opinion that technology has improved immensely in the years since the car was designed, if newer materials improve the reliability/performance/safety of the vehicle then they Should be fitted

Well thats where our opinion differs. Obviously we've come on in technology. If you want a more technically advanced car go buy one. Buy a mk1+ or keep going till you reach the standard of car you're looking for. This is why very little people wouldnt make mods like your saying on more expensive cars, because they know nobody wants them and it devalues the car immensely as the new owner will more than likely have to spend a rake of time finding the parts you've taken out, and then pay through the nose to replace them. You think I'm happy spending 560 pound on a brake reservoir for my escort? No. But the genius who owned it before felt there was reason to replace it with a different one.

Tzar Chasm

Ok since you asked I have an 89 e30 316i and a 98 e36 316i.

The e36 is reasonably stock except for the exhust and calipers, but the e30 has had a few upgrades, better lights, remote locking, better stereo, aftermarket wheels, new lower suspension, upgraded exhaust, bigger discs and calipers on the front. All these things make it a better car.

As for the name calling, fair enough that was a little rude, but I stand by the sentiment expressed.


as for your escort resoivoir, its possible that the replacement part addressed a flaw in the original design, if the new part works better thats the part that you should use.


also if I saw a statue of a cavemen the iphone would be out of place, however if I bumped into one on the street I wouldnt deny him one or demand that he wore animal furs and only ate wolly mammoths

red_ice

edited...

tbh, I'm not bothered, this is pointless. good luck with your bmws.

f4fay

Eh,Hello !!!! MK1 & MK2 Escort Tread ? WTF ????

kev1.3s

I kinda like mk1 escorts, not a huge fan and I don't really think there worth the money asked but as they say a cars worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and plenty of guys obviously think there worth the asking price. One things for sure, no matter what you do with a car weather it's keeping it standard modifying it to within an inch of it's life or just making some some subtle mods there's always gonna be someone who thinks they know how to spend you're money better than you.

The Big Red Fella

Well i love the auld Escorts i was at a run in late august Irish Escort Clubs mourne run 2014 & there were some really fine cars there sidways n all!! i also love minis i have one 1963 austin seven mini!
what about Fiat 131 racings?
i have one of those as well & it won best of the rest at the Irish Escort Club Mourne run 2014!!

kev1.3s

The Big Red Fella wrote: »

Well i love the auld Escorts i was at a run in late august Irish Escort Clubs mourne run 2014 & there were some really fine cars there sidways n all!! i also love minis i have one 1963 austin seven mini!
what about Fiat 131 racings?
i have one of those as well & it won best of the rest at the Irish Escort Club Mourne run 2014!!

Much prefer the 131 sport.

Alfasudcrazy

I think the Mk I escort is a design classic. All the curves and lines blend in so well together. Its just the right size for a car and has a great driving position and slick gearbox. No doubt the rallying influenced me too when getting my first car. I thought I was very lucky and am sure was envied with my 1970 Mk I. It not outright speed or handling that appeals to me this is a car you can work on and easily find parts for.

The MK II is basic guise is not as appealing but I think its a nice design too. Its the RS2000 that does it for me and I still hope to have one some day. Was only drooling for a half an hour over this today.

http://www.charmansautomotive.co.uk/showroom/43/ford-escort/

red_ice

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

The MK II is basic guise is not as appealing but I think its a nice design too. Its the RS2000 that does it for me and I still hope to have one some day. Was only drooling for a half an hour over this today.

http://www.charmansautomotive.co.uk/showroom/43/ford-escort/

beast! Have to be honest, I much prefer this frontend..