22% rent increase on our rented apartment.

rent increased

Myself & my partner rent a 2 bed in Dublin and have been here 6 years. I understand a one bed would do us but when we moved in there wasn't a huge difference in price between a one bed & two bed.

We've had a good relationship with the landlord. There was the odd repair they sorted quick and we can go several months, even over a year without speaking. On the call we were told we were model tenants. Never ever hassled the landlord over small stuff.

We pay 900 per month in Dublin suburbs, it's not a particularly nice part of Dublin but we're settled now. Got a call today saying the landlord could get 1300 for it but they'd accept 1150.


I got a long story about they owned 20 properties and close to going bankrupt and they owned thousands in management fees for my flat and owed over 1 million to banks for their portfolio and I said sorry for your troubles. That was a bit unnecessary though, that's private business and not for tenants to know

Nothing in our estate on daft at the minute. The only comparison I have in this estate is the apartment that was let 7 months ago and had the same price as us on daft. The landlord said they didn't care about daft or me getting examples, they knew the market and could get 1300 easy. We pay 900. They wouldn't listen to me saying what the apartment above got.

I was told to think about it for a week and if we didn't agree we'd be given a months notice (not nice coming to Christmas ).

I guess we could met this increase of 250 per month with cutbacks elsewhere. My question is such an increase way out of line considering what upstairs pay? The landlord sounded very upset and seems to be ringing around all her properties looking for increases.

theteal

I can't really offer advice with your decision but I do know that you're entitled to a hell of a lot longer notice period after being there for so long, don't feel pressured.

fussyonion

You're currently paying below the market rate and the LL is entitled to raise the rent in accordance with market rates.
I personally think you've been getting a bargain at €900 a month and it's only fair the LL asks for an increase.

murphaph

Well, she could have given you no information and just said "the market rate is x, but we'll accept x-y". The fact they felt obliged to give you more information maybe speaks positively about them as people, maybe not. End of the day, the market rate is what someone is willing to pay right now for the place. Maybe you should look a little further afield than just your own development? If you take a case to the PRTB they will. The fact that only a single unit has been let through daft in your development in the past 7 months may speak more about the current market than the price it let for, ie, tenants are staying put as moving will almost certainly mean an increase.

If you genuinely feel this increase takes you above (and it would need to be demonstrably above, not 50 or 100 Euro) the market rate then you may lodge a complaint with the PRTB, but think carefully before doing so as your LL will then push your rent up to the absolute upper limit at every opportunity. It's a landlord's market, so think carefully about making an enemy of yours is what I'm saying.

quadrifoglio verde

What area op?
You're definitely paying below market rate anyway, there's 10 2 beds on daft asking 900 a month and the majority are in balbrigan. Without knowing the area, it's difficult to decide the rent increase is justified or not.
Setting aside the short notice and the percentage figure of the increase, there is a possibility that you've been underpaying vs the market rate for the last 12-18 months.

Tar.Aldarion

I believe they have to give you 112 days notice for living there so long. But also that they have to give you 28 days notice (in writing) to increase rent. I'm not sure how it works then, if they increase it in 28 days but you are on notice.

I guess I'd ask the PRTB.

accensi0n

Ask them if they would accept 1100.

deathtocaptcha

counter offer €1000 and mention the 22% increase... if you mention the increase in that exact percentage amount it sounds high...

say you understand rates are going up but weren't prepared for a 22% hike... however, you'd like to stay, you're happy with the property and the landlord but can't stretch to more than €1000.

from their point of view, they won't want the hassle of finding new tenants and potentially getting much more fussy tenants so i'd imagine they'd be open to negotiating a bit... even if you can knock the €50 off, that'd be €600/year you'd be saving... i'm sure they wouldn't kick you out over it if you've been there that long...

rent increased

OP here, thanks for replies. It was a long phone call over 20 minutes and I did my very best and emphasised we were great tenants.

fussyonion wrote: »

You're currently paying below the market rate and the LL is entitled to raise the rent in accordance with market rates.
I personally think you've been getting a bargain at €900 a month and it's only fair the LL asks for an increase.

When I saw the viewing happen upstairs 7 months ago I looked at daft, saw it advertised at 900 and thought we pay that so I guess fair enough. From the photos the apartment upstairs is in better condition.

I never looked at daft in years and years apart from then. When the landlord told me today market rate is 1300 well I wanted to do some research.

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

What area op?
You're definitely paying below market rate anyway, there's 10 2 beds on daft asking 900 a month and the majority are in balbrigan.

My area is lower Ballyfermot, Dublin 10. I say lower as it's quiet and it ain't the Cherry Orchard end! I know people knock Ballyer but realy it's very quiet with lots of parks and we like it

You are correct, I looked at daft and nowt around at this price except Balbriggan.

accensi0n wrote: »

Ask them if they would accept 1100.

I neglected to add in my first post. Offered 1,050. She said no way, no lower then 1150 and that's only because we were model tenants.

She also said she'd do a snag list for us. Like for example the place hasn't been painted in over 6 years and she has a handyman who would do that for us. There are bits n'pieces wrong like a missing corner of the floorboard, toilet set broke but I never told the landlord as I didn't want to hassle them as we're easy going. She's a professional landlord so has a handyman for jobs like this. I'll add these were damaged when we moved in

The_Conductor

deathtocaptcha wrote: »

from their point of view, they won't want the hassle of finding new tenants and potentially getting much more fussy tenants so i'd imagine they'd be open to negotiating a bit... even if you can knock the €50 off, that'd be €600/year you'd be saving... i'm sure they wouldn't kick you out over it if you've been there that long...

If the market rate is 400 more than the tenant is paying (which given their figures- even if its in a less desireable part of Dublin- does sound plausible)- it is in the landlord's interest for the tenant to turn down the offer- as a new tenant, even if they are troublesome- will be generating far more income than the incumbents.

A 22% increase- is on the high side of normal for the last 12 months for Dublin- the average is around 16-17%, but there are lots of properties who haven't had increases- alongside lots of properties whose increases have been far in excess of 22%

Unfortunately the landlord has the cards here- I'd either try to negotiate it down a little (say to 1,100) or start looking elsewhere. Unfortunately- I don't think you're going to find an elsewhere for the money in question (1,300).

I was involved in letting an apartment in Lucan recently. The sitting tenant baulked at an increase to 1,000 from 850. It was advertised at 1,150. On the one and only day of viewing- 16 couples offered asking, 4 offered up to 1,500, and one group of Intel engineers offered 4 months rent upfront as a deposit........ That is the market you're looking at..........

The tenant does not hold the cards here.

wexie

I dunno, but that certainly sounds like a landlord who is trying hard to be accommodating but really can't afford to let the apartment for so much less than market rates.

look at it this way, what's the cheapest 2 bed you've seen in the same/similar area? What would it cost you per annum to move there?
with an unknown LL, unknown neighbours etc. etc.

quadrifoglio verde

The_Conductor wrote: »

If the market rate is 400 more than the tenant is paying (which given their figures- even if its in a less desireable part of Dublin- does sound plausible)- it is in the landlord's interest for the tenant to turn down the offer- as a new tenant, even if they are troublesome- will be generating far more income than the incumbents.

A 22% increase- is on the high side of normal for the last 12 months for Dublin- the average is around 16-17%, but there are lots of properties who haven't had increases- alongside lots of properties whose increases have been far in excess of 22%

Unfortunately the landlord has the cards here- I'd either try to negotiate it down a little (say to 1,100) or start looking elsewhere. Unfortunately- I don't think you're going to find an elsewhere for the money in question (1,300).

I was involved in letting an apartment in Lucan recently. The sitting tenant baulked at an increase to 1,000 from 850. It was advertised at 1,150. On the one and only day of viewing- 16 couples offered asking, 4 offered up to 1,500, and one group of Intel engineers offered 4 months rent upfront as a deposit........ That is the market you're looking at..........

The tenant does not hold the cards here.

Christ that's going to lead to a major problem in the next 6-12 months when the bulk of landlords in the area who had no choice but to rent to rent allowance tenants a few years ago want more, because looking at daft, there's very few if any houses in the area that meet rent allowance limits.

Op would you consider getting someone in to rent the other room? It'd reduce your actual monthly rent, although you'd have to look at them :pac:

hfallada

OP if you think you can get a 2 bed for better value, than move out. But even at €1150 its below market rate and more importantly its near impossible to find accomdation in Dublin at the moment. 22% over 6 years is only an increase of 3.65% pa which isnt that significant considering rents have been rising for about 3 years straight. Plus his insurance is significantly more expensive, higher management fees, he is now paying PRSI + USC on his income(about 11%). So he is probably no better off than 6 years ago.

You can give him a counter offer, but at the end of the day. If you piss him off, he probably will evict you and get someone who will pay more

sweetie

did the rent increase come at the start of a new lease year or in the middle? think they have to be yearly?

Sala

My friends rent was raised from 1100 to 1400 and when she told the agent she was handing in her notice they offered her a discount to stay. I suspect your landlord will negotiate a discount as good tenants. If not it appears everything in myhome in d10 is around 1000-1100 so hopefully you can get something

allibastor

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that if a landlord wanted to raise the rent on a place, and in such a very drastic manner, they also had to show that they have added value to the house.

I don't know if this is a legal thing or not, I will research this, but I remember renting before and the landlord put the rent up 10% and I was asked outright by the PRTB if he had done work t the flat or had added value to it to justify the rent increase.

This was 2006 by the way, so I am well aware things may have changed.


Also, It does sicken me the way landlords are getting away with everything now in Dublin, with the new bank lending rules it will become an unmerciful raping of middle income earners who cant afford 20% of 400K for a deposit with skyhigh rents.

gizmo555

allibastor wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that if a landlord wanted to raise the rent on a place, and in such a very drastic manner, they also had to show that they have added value to the house.

You are mistaken.

A landlord can only increase the rent once in any 12 month period, and cannot increase within 12 months of the commencement of the tenancy except in limited circumstances such as a complete refurbishment of the property which affects the market rent of the dwelling. The Residential Tenancies Act prohibits the landlord from setting a rent that is in excess of market rent. If a landlord intends increasing the rent, they must inform you, in writing, of any increase in rent, 28 days before the increase is due to take effect. A valid notice served by the landlord must state the amount of rent and the date to which it is to have effect. A landlord is also required to notify the PRTB of the revised rent so that the registrations details can be updated.

Where a valid notice of a rent review has been served by the landlord then either party can submit a dispute to the PRTB before the new rent is to have effect or before the expiry of the 28 days notice from the tenant receiving that notice. There is no time limit where an invalid notice is served.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/rent-reviews

curiosity

rent increased wrote: »

We pay 900 per month in Dublin suburbs, it's not a particularly nice part of Dublin but we're settled now. Got a call today saying the landlord could get 1300 for it but they'd accept 1150.

I make a change from 900 to 1,150 to be a 27.8% increase...

Larbre34

Sala wrote: »

My friends rent was raised from 1100 to 1400 and when she told the agent she was handing in her notice they offered her a discount to stay. I suspect your landlord will negotiate a discount as good tenants. If not it appears everything in myhome in d10 is around 1000-1100 so hopefully you can get something

1,150 is the discount for them to stay, they being model tenants. He can get 1,300.

Monife

2 bed house - €1,000
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/116-ballyfermot-drive-ballyfermot-dublin/1507042/

3 bed apartment - €950
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/apartment-at-288-ballyfermot-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1507613/

2 bed apartment - €1,000
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/sheldon-park-apartments-kylemore-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1485075/

Don't think €1,300 is the market rate for Ballyfermot!

How Strange

I live in D10 and although we're owners I know a few people who are renting. Rents haven't really risen that much in this area. I think €1000 is the upper end of what you'd expect for a 2 bed. The only difference now is that landlords can be a bit more choosy about tentants.

gizmo555

How Strange wrote: »

I live in D10 and although we're owners I know a few people who are renting. Rents haven't really risen that much in this area. I think €1000 is the upper end of what you'd expect for a 2 bed. The only difference now is that landlords can be a bit more choosy about tentants. Anyone who wants to live in this area couldn't afford €1300 a month and anyone who has that kind of money to pay on rent chooses to live somewhere else.

If the OP feels the rent being sought is above the market rate, the PRTB can be asked to decide on the matter.

Market rent is defined as a rent that a willing Tenant not already in occupation would give and a willing Landlord would take for the dwelling, having regard to other terms of the tenancy and the letting values of dwellings of a similar size, type and character to the dwelling and situated in a comparable area to that in which it is situated.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-market-rent-

Greenmachine

Monife wrote: »

2 bed house - €1,000
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/116-ballyfermot-drive-ballyfermot-dublin/1507042/

3 bed apartment - €950
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/apartment-at-288-ballyfermot-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1507613/

2 bed apartment - €1,000
http://www.daft.ie/lettings/sheldon-park-apartments-kylemore-road-ballyfermot-dublin/1485075/

Don't think €1,300 is the market rate for Ballyfermot!

Someone who has actually researched the area, instead of telling the op to just pay the increase.

Sala

Larbre34 wrote: »

1,150 is the discount for them to stay, they being model tenants. He can get 1,300.

€1,300 is what he thinks he could get. The OP has no point of reference or proof of this

Gael23

I would be insisting that she carries out any repairs needed to the place, down to painting, toilet seats., literally everything

davo10

ryanf1 wrote: »

I would be insisting that she carries out any repairs needed to the place, down to painting, toilet seats., literally everything

And if she says "no", what then? Rent is below market rate, if OP refuses then LL gets to put it on the market for €1300 pm, that's an extra €1800 per year if LL rents property at MR.

If you are getting at a price genuinely below market rate, take it and if you plan to stay there in the long term, ask for assurance that it won't be raised for at least 2 years. You might not get it but it's better than a kick in the arse.

wexie

ryanf1 wrote: »

I would be insisting that she carries out any repairs needed to the place, down to painting, toilet seats., literally everything

OP already mentioned the LL offered to do all this

rent increased wrote: »

She also said she'd do a snag list for us. Like for example the place hasn't been painted in over 6 years and she has a handyman who would do that for us.

hfallada

We live in a free market economy. If the OP thinks he can find a better place cheaper. All he has to do is move out.

Rob Thomas

You can get too close to an issue like this. It's difficult to do but the outcome here needs to be decided by

1. Can I get accommodation elsewhere which suits and satisfies my needs below the rent I am being quoted?

If the answer is yes, you either negotiate harder with your landlord or move out.
If the answer is no, you negotiate a deal with the landlord which is within your financial ability or move out.

You end up in the same place. Either you and the landlord come to a deal which suits YOU... Or you move.

It's not about the landlord, the rental market or the place you live in. It's what suits your needs and what you can afford. We're not machines of course but it needs to be unemotional.

If the landlord is under as much pressure as you say, a Bank might be making your decision for you in time anyway.