English FA apologise for anti-IRA chants

SharpshooterTom

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30110633

Anyone hear about this?

I didn't watch the game yesterday, but I was told and rather suspected of the anti-IRA/Irish rubbish that would be sung at the game, significantly because it was played at Celtic park.

I know a lot of Irish people are often torn about whether to wish England well or offer England support because of the interest taken in England's club sides and don't want to be seen as hypocritical, but personally I have always felt uncomfortable with a lot of Englands support, particularly their away support, which even till this day still has very strong links to Ulster loyalism, National Front/Combat 18 morons, its not a small number, its a lot of them.

Ireland are supposed play England at the Aviva next year, is this what we want? I suspect the atmosphere's going to be uncomfortable if these are the types who are coming over. :rolleyes:

Evidently therefore there's a significant amount of anti-Irish catholic sentiment in England's support, and although I wouldn't cheer against them, I wouldn't cheer for them either until a significant chunk of that support has been removed. On the other hand I have no problems with the England rugby/cricket or their Olympic team doing well, but their football team, nah.

Kudos to the FA for apologising, they didn't have to. I know whatabouterry will exist in this thread with certain sections of the ROI support/Green brigade booing Rangers players which is obviously pathetic as well.

Its still a shame Englands support is still perpetrated by morons however, even if the two countries relationships are repairing peace time.

dinorebel

I'm English(living in Ireland) and am embarrassed by that kind of crap.


Fair play to the fans who sung "Clap hands if you've lost a referendum" to Alex Salmond though.

Beefy78

Best thing to do is to ban that ****ing band.

Menas

You might be better off starting this thread in the soccer forum.

Jarrod

I don't know what was actually sung but, anti IRA does not equal anti Irish. So were the songs anti IRA or anti Irish?

Also ROI support and the Green Brigade are completely different things.

Why would they apologise about anti IRA songs?
Surely any reasonable Irish person would agree with the sentiment.

And if the Irish had joined in, well jokes on them.

The One Doctor

I'm Irish and am vehemently anti-IRA. Terrorist have no place in our society, regardless of their religious beliefs.

Beefy78

Jarrod wrote: »

I don't know what was actually sung but, anti IRA does not equal anti Irish. So were the songs anti IRA or anti Irish?

Anti-IRA. As someone who supports England's sporting teams at home and abroad it is tiresome to read and hear about stuff like this BUT I do think that it has been blown up a little out of proportion because certain people didn't get the result they wanted on and off the pitch what with a very, very easy England win and no violence to report.

It was a Scotland vs England match played at Celtic Park. It was always going to attract a certain element and people will sing songs to get under the opposing fans skins.

TBH I'm not looking forward to Ireland vs England next year.

The Backwards Man

They can sing all the anti-IRA songs they want for all I care, but singing them at Scotland supporters who are mostly from the likes of Fort William and Drumfries shows a certain lack of intelligence.

AnonoBoy

So just to be clear, we won't be happy until their fans are singing pro-IRA songs?

Buona Fortuna

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Ireland are supposed play England at the Aviva next year, is this what we want? I suspect the atmosphere's going to be uncomfortable if these are the types who are coming over. :rolleyes:

You're right. Fvck it, lets not go.

I hate it when Corrie gets cancelled for some Footba Shoite

Jarrod

Beefy78 wrote: »

Anti-IRA. As someone who supports England's sporting teams at home and abroad it is tiresome to read and hear about stuff like this BUT I do think that it has been blown up a little out of proportion because certain people didn't get the result they wanted on and off the pitch what with a very, very easy England win and no violence to report.

It was a Scotland vs England match played at Celtic Park. It was always going to attract a certain element and people will sing songs to get under the opposing fans skins.

TBH I'm not looking forward to Ireland vs England next year.

They can sing all the anti IRA stuff they want as far as I'm concerned, I don't know what the FA are apologising for. The OP made it seem like it was anti Irish. I watch bits of the Premier League but wouldn't be particularly bothered with the England national team. I wouldn't be actively anti them but just don't really care how they get on.

Dub.

The One Doctor wrote: »

I'm Irish and am vehemently anti-IRA. Terrorist have no place in our society, regardless of their religious beliefs.

You will presumably be protesting against the 1916 commemorations i imagine?

Seeing as you are vehemently anti IRA and all..

The Backwards Man

Dub. wrote: »

You will presumably be protesting against the 1916 commemorations i imagine?

Seeing as you are vehemently anti IRA and all..

There was no IRA in 1916

/pedantic

Dub.

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So just to be clear, we won't be happy until their fans are singing pro-IRA songs?

You, of course, would have no problem with Ireland fans singing anti British army songs at Lansdowne rd..

Do you really think these kind of political chants have a place in modern sport?

anncoates

Obviously I can imagine some of the boneheads singing it but it's not like you don't get anti-English/British Army sentiment at Ireland or Celtic and so on. It's just football crowds and a non-story.

Mint Sauce

I see no mention of an apology from the Scottish FA for their fans booing GSTQ.

I say that as an England and Ireland Fan, who woud be against sectarianism or political chantings, and would love to see GSTQ replaced with something else.

anncoates

Jarrod wrote: »

They can sing all the anti IRA stuff they want as far as I'm concerned,.

I doubt that they are making a considered political point about armed force republicanism. It's safe to say that the majority of people involved are more than likely right-wing.

That said, it's a football crowd and I think an apology is overkill.

SharpshooterTom

anncoates wrote: »

Obviously I can imagine some of the boneheads singing it but it's not like you don't get anti-English/British Army sentiment at Ireland or Celtic and so on. It's just football crowds and a non-story.

I said that in my OP, but it doesn't make this incident right, regardless of what certain moronic Irish fans chant, if we continue to get incidents from Irish fans I would condone that too.

You see the game next year will attract idiots from here who take interest in this sort of stuff and will look get stuck into England fans, the whole thing becomes a vicious cycle. The game next year I fear will get swamped by idiots by both sides.

Nidgeweasel

Apologise for what.

They're anti IRA. Hardly a shock is it.

Fratton Fred

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30110633

Anyone hear about this?

I didn't watch the game yesterday, but I was told and rather suspected of the anti-IRA/Irish rubbish that would be sung at the game, significantly because it was played at Celtic park.

I know a lot of Irish people are often torn about whether to wish England well or offer England support because of the interest taken in England's club sides and don't want to be seen as hypocritical, but personally I have always felt uncomfortable with a lot of Englands support, particularly their away support, which even till this day still has very strong links to Ulster loyalism, National Front/Combat 18 morons, its not a small number, its a lot of them.

Ireland are supposed play England at the Aviva next year, is this what we want? I suspect the atmosphere's going to be uncomfortable if these are the types who are coming over. :rolleyes:

Evidently therefore there's a significant amount of anti-Irish catholic sentiment in England's support, and although I wouldn't cheer against them, I wouldn't cheer for them either until a significant chunk of that support has been removed. On the other hand I have no problems with the England rugby/cricket or their Olympic team doing well, but their football team, nah.

Kudos to the FA for apologising, they didn't have to. I know whatabouterry will exist in this thread with certain sections of the ROI support/Green brigade booing Rangers players which is obviously pathetic as well.

Its still a shame Englands support is still perpetrated by morons however, even if the two countries relationships are repairing peace time.

When I read about this, I knew someone would try and turn this in to an anti Irish thing, which if course, it isn't.

They were at Celtic park, home of the notoriously anti British/pro ira green army. So what if they engaged in a bit chest beating.

anncoates

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I said that in my OP, but it doesn't make this incident right, regardless of what certain moronic Irish fans chant, if we continue to get incidents from Irish fans I would condone that too..

It's not exactly rocket science that some English people (right wing boneheads or not) don't like the IRA after Warrington, Birmingham, Manchester etc.

Nor that some Irish people have grief with the British army and establishment.

If the chants are not specifically racist or offensive, just leave it be. Football is sanitized enough as it is these days.

SharpshooterTom

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Apologise for what.

They're anti IRA. Hardly a shock is it.

Maybe I read into it differently, but I would see thinly veiled anti-Irish feeling within those ranks because of this, possible sympathises with loyalist paramilitaries and death squads? Because some of them would have, its just the broader context I don't like when reading about stuff like this.

I honestly don't think also a lot of these guys are that bright to differentiate between the IRA and the general Irish population either and some would see them as all as one.

anncoates

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Maybe I read into it differently, but I would see thinly veiled anti-Irish feeling within those ranks because of this, possible sympathises with loyalist paramilitaries and death squads? Because some of them would have, its just the broader context I don't like when reading about stuff like this.

I honestly don't think also a lot of these guys are that bright to differentiate between the IRA and the general Irish population either and some would see them as all as one.

You could change a few key words there and easily have it apply to some Irish supporters too.

yipeeeee

James mcclean, only the other way around.

It's no biggie.

Fratton Fred

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Maybe I read into it differently, but I would see thinly veiled anti-Irish feeling within those ranks because of this, possible sympathises with loyalist paramilitaries and death squads? Because some of them would have, its just the broader context I don't like when reading about stuff like this.

You're being paranoid.

Sufa

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I said that in my OP, but it doesn't make this incident right, regardless of what certain moronic Irish fans chant, if we continue to get incidents from Irish fans I would condone that too.

You see the game next year will attract idiots from here who take interest in this sort of stuff and will look get stuck into England fans, the whole thing becomes a vicious cycle. The game next year I fear will get swamped by idiots by both sides.

I wouldn't get too worked up if I were you.

According to the media, all hell was to be let loose last night by England fans travelling up to Scotland. Inexplicably (yeah right) it seems everything went very smoothly, fans interacted in an extremely well-mannered fashion both in the city and outside the ground, and after the game everyone simply... went home.

There's nothing to fear! Everyone will be happy!

Slightly off topic, but looking at your post history it seems you have quite the fascination with Anglo-Irish relations? And, rather bizarrely, it looks like you almost dare I say it, enjoy talking up the possibility of hostility, antagonism and a breakdown of amicable relations on almost all levels? What is it, some kind of masochism?

Fuhrer

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You're paranoid.

The National Front and Combat 18 have always had close and open links with Loyalist Death Squads, they also happen to be voracious supporters of the England National Team.

dRNk SAnTA

Why would the English not be anti-IRA? The IRA have bombed their cities, politicians, and royal family. If I was English, I'd be fairly anti-IRA too.

It doesn't mean they're anti Irish.

dinorebel

Fuhrer wrote: »

The National Front and Combat 18 have always had close and open links with Loyalist Death Squads, they also happen to be voracious supporters of the England National Team.

Nice username given the topic:eek:

SharpshooterTom

anncoates wrote: »

You could change a few key words there and easily have it apply to some Irish supporters too.

You see I knew this was unavoidable, I did make a reference to this in my post, and suggested whatabouterry was coming.

I don't support any anti-British chanting either, but all I was talking about was this specific incident which I felt uncomfortable with. I think I made a dislike to Celtic's pathetic booing of the minute's silence last week on remembrance sunday.

FTA69

The "no surrender to the IRA" nonsense is more about British jingoism and a "we're f*cking great" sentiment as much as it is 'anti-Irish'. The same tossers who sing that can also be found singing "Ten German Bombers" to the tune of "Ten Green Bottles"; "Rule Brittania" and a load of other stupid imperialistic b*llocks.

In general, I think soccer in England is a great expression of working class culture and 99% of the chants are concerned with mocking opposing fans/managers, witticisms etc. You do get the occasional 'oo are ya' boorishness but we get plenty of that in all sports.

In short, a few England fans being mouthy c*nts at a match against their rivals isn't huge news.

howiya

So a month or so after voting to stay within the UK Scottish fans boo God Save the Queen and English fans sing anti-IRA songs to Scottish fans?? Go figure.

While completely unnecessary in my view I can understand why the English FA have issued an apology. They have been at the forefront of attempts to have stadia closed in Eastern Europe mostly over racist chanting and abuse of players (rather than political chants). They obviously want to keep themselves on the moral high ground in this area. Football and sport in general has gone very PC these days.

That being said I'm surprised it is being reported on at all save for highlighting flaws within the UKs education system

paulbok

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I see no mention of an apology from the Scottish FA for their fans booing GSTQ.

I say that as an England and Ireland Fan, who woud be against sectarianism or political chantings, and would love to see GSTQ replaced with something else.

It'll be GSTK soon enough.

iDave

Why cant they just watch the bloody game?

Nothing sadder than soccer fans bragging after losing a match that they sang more than the other fans.

howiya

yipeeeee wrote: »

James mcclean, only the other way around.

It's no biggie.

What has it got to do with James McClean??

FTA69

howiya wrote: »

Football and sport in general has gone very PC these days.

Football in the UK also had a deep and systemic problem with overt racism being tolerated for years. Something had to change and the current state of affairs is a lot better than it was before. That's something that should be supported, not derided as "very PC" because fans aren't allowed to shout n*gger and throw bananas at John Barnes anymore.

6541

I hope the English Fan's riot in Ireland when they play next year !! I am entitled to an opinion !

anncoates

iDave wrote: »

Nothing sadder than soccer fans bragging after losing a match that they sang more than the other fans.

Because that only ever happens in perfidious Tan sports, obviously.

SharpshooterTom

FTA69 wrote: »

Football in the UK also had a deep and systemic problem with overt racism being tolerated for years. Something had to change and the current state of affairs is a lot better than it was before. That's something that should be supported, not derided as "very PC" because fans aren't allowed to shout n*gger and throw bananas at John Barnes anymore.

I have to say the English FA have done a terrific job on this front in the past 20 years, compared to Spain, Italy etc, its marketing and overall inclusiveness like this which the FA have done as good as anyone else which makes the Premier league the most watched league in the world.

Sufa

FTA69 wrote: »

The "no surrender to the IRA" nonsense is more about British jingoism and a "we're f*cking great" sentiment as much as it is 'anti-Irish'. The same tossers who sing that can also be found singing "Ten German Bombers" to the tune of "Ten Green Bottles"; "Rule Brittania" and a load of other stupid imperialistic b*llocks.

In general, I think soccer in England is a great expression of working class culture and 99% of the chants are concerned with mocking opposing fans/managers, witticisms etc. You do get the occasional 'oo are ya' boorishness but we get plenty of that in all sports.

In short, a few England fans being mouthy c*nts at a match against their rivals isn't huge news.

lol. Say what you want about a song such as "Ten German Bombers" (which incidentally isn't sung to the tune of ten green bottles, or six hundred green bottles as would be my favoured version) but to call it imperialistic is pushing it considering it is intended to refer to the Battle of Britain and the German attempts to level London and the south eastern airfields.

Strange stance for someone so famously "anti-imperialist"

Jarrod

anncoates wrote: »

I doubt that they are making a considered political point about armed force republicanism. It's safe to say that the majority of people involved are more than likely right-wing.

That said, it's a football crowd and I think an apology is overkill.

I'm not trying to argue that they're making a reasonably thought out political point about the IRA, just that I don't associate being anti IRA with being anti Irish. Now the sort that were involved may be anti both but from what I can gather, the FA is apologising for them being anti IRA.

yipeeeee

howiya wrote: »

What has it got to do with James McClean??

Anti British army, anti ira.

howiya

FTA69 wrote: »

Football in the UK also had a deep and systemic problem with overt racism being tolerated for years. Something had to change and the current state of affairs is a lot better than it was before. That's something that should be supported, not derided as "very PC" because fans aren't allowed to shout n*gger and throw bananas at John Barnes anymore.

Football "fans" may not be allowed use the n word or throw bananas anymore but it doesn't make those people any less racist and these people are merely being PC while attending games

Nidgeweasel

2 world wards and 1 world cup doo dah doo dah.

howiya

yipeeeee wrote: »

Anti British army, anti ira.

You'll have to explain the connection for me. England were playing Scotland last night. James McClean was playing against the USA

Mint Sauce

6541 wrote: »

I hope the English Fan's riot in Ireland when they play next year !! I am entitled to an opinion !

If they do, I hope the guards crack skulls like they did last time.

if it did happen, dont expect another friendly international between the two sides again in our lifetime on these shores, and very high tension in any full internationals. Both nations have moved on considerably since 1995, lets not go back to them times.

blinding

Who are the IRA and why would the English fans rather not surrender to them !

Is there some body or force about that they would prefer to lay down for ?

Nidgeweasel

No surrender to the IR-ish water.

Karl Stein

We interrupt this thread to go back to 1966..

P. Breathnach

Jarrod wrote: »

... I don't associate being anti IRA with being anti Irish....

The problem is that many of those who chant anti-IRA stuff see it as an expression of anti-Irishness. There is a presumption in their thick skulls that being Irish is the same as being pro-IRA.

I'm not offended by any expression of anti-IRA sentiment; I am offended by any presumption that I am pro-IRA.

I suppose that is what the FA is addressing in making an apology.