€700 inc build and delivery - i3 4150 Vs FX 8320E?

BenEadir

Hi all,

I've been getting some help here over the last few weeks as I work towards spec'ing and buying a gaming PC for my 15 year old son which will also double as a family PC. 70% of the time it will be used by my son playing Far Cry 3 type games and 30% of the time it will be used for multi tasking i.e. MS Office, Chrome and uTorrent etc all running at the same time. We've narrowed it down to two options so I thought it would be worth putting them into a clean new thread and see what feedback I can get. (Monitor and OS not needed)

The big learning curve for me has been in relation to the processors. I now realise that the i3 4150 will perform very well if the machine is running a single game and not multi tasking plus the i3 is more power efficient and can be upgraded in the future to an i5/i7 if necessary.

The AMD 8320E on the other hand has much better multi tasking ability and greater processing power but can't be upgraded in the future without also replacing the motherboard and it's more power hungry.

Both builds below come in at circa €660 which I hope means I can have whichever one we go with built and landed for €700 if I use http://geizhals.de.

The decision we need to make is whether we should sacrifice some performance now for the ability to upgrade in 2-3 years time or whether we should max performance now and forget about upgrading in the future. I'm leaning towards the latter as although upgrading in the future is a nice idea I doubt it would actually happen. It's more likely this machine will be used for 3-4 years and then put out to pasture as a home office type PC running MS Office and Chrome with a new gaming PC purchased which has an upgraded graphics card, CPU etc

So here are the two builds:-

#1 - the i3 4150 build




#2 - the AMD FX 8320E build





Thoughts?

When I did a comparison of the two processors online I got the following:-




Other questions:-

1. Are the above systems correctly configured? I haven't done this before so I don't know if the motherboards match the processors, whether the towers will hold everything OK etc etc

2. Is there any reason to pay an extra €5 for this 128GB SSD http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/169180/Crucial+MX100+SSD+128GB+%282%2C5%2C+7mm%29.article Vs this one http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/59806/SanDisk+SSD+128GB+S-ATA+600.article

3. Which 8GB RAM should I go with? This one http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article which seems to be faster but is actually 2 x 4GB sticks or this one http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1333+Low+Voltage/58869/8GB+Corsair+ValueSelect+PC3-10667U+CL9-9-9-24.article which is slower but is a single stick?

I want to place the order today/tomorrow so appreciate any final advice you can give me. I can't afford to get this wrong. Not only do I not want to waste money but I can't lose face in front of my son!!!

Cheers all.

MRTULES

Just a thought,
Would you consider an i5 (the 4430/4440/4460 can be had for circa €155) and a cheap B85 or h81 motherboard (circa €50)?
This + this = €207.70
granted its nearly €30 more expensive than the combos you have selected but just wanted to put it out there as I would be interested on peoples thoughts too.

BenEadir

MRTULES wrote: »

Just a thought,
Would you consider an i5 (the 4430/4440/4460 can be had for circa €155) and a cheap B85 or h81 motherboard (circa €50)?
This + this = €207.70
granted its nearly €30 more expensive than the combos you have selected but just wanted to put it out there as I would be interested on peoples thoughts too.

Short answer is Yes, I would indeed consider that option. If an extra €30 gets you similar performance to the FX 8320E. I might get the €30 back in saved electricity quickly enough????

Here's what the system would look like with those two components



Is that a more balanced system i.e. the processor and graphics card are of similar quality?

The only concern I have, which is ignorance on my part, is what am I losing by going with the less expensive motherboard? I did some quick googling and it seems H97 motherboards offer more functionality and connectivity options Vs the H81 boards. The question is would a H81 board give me what I need or would pairing an i5-4460 with a H81 motherboard be like putting cheap oil and petrol into a sports car?

ConfusedAgain.com

Chris_Heilong

I have always been into AMD but it was time for an upgrade and I was going to go for the FX8320, after a long time watching bench marks and comparing prices it worked out better to go for an i5-4460, its just a better CPU and can be got at Komplatt.ie for around €160 so that is the route I would recommend. Like you I was worried about the mother board so went for a slightly more expensive one just incase(MSI Z97 PC Mate)

BenEadir

Thanks Chris,

I read up on the different H81/H97/Z97 motherboards and given my son is into tweaking and and messing around with tech it's probably a good idea to go with the MSI Z97 board as it will allow him to customise the machine some more in the future and/or over clock etc.

So, it's now down to two quite distinct systems.

#1 - An AMD Fx-8320E based system which is €672 + build and delivery less discount via http://geizhals.de.



OR

#2 - An i5-4460 based system which is €727 + build and delivery less discount via http://geizhals.de.



I'm leaning towards spending the extra €55 and going with the i5 based system.

Any final thoughts from anyone before I pull the trigger???

MRTULES

Just about the board. Your CPU is not overclockable so a Z97 is probably wasted. I think the b85 boards are a decent sort usually. You just need to figure out what you need out of a board. Connections are pretty important like USB HDMI audio ect. Will you ever need/want to put in a 2nd GPU?

MRTULES

Also I would always recommend building it yourself. If you watch a few videos you'll see how easy it actually is to do. Great father son project I reckon. Also rules out the risk of damage during transport.

BenEadir

MRTULES wrote: »

Just about the board. Your CPU is not overclockable so a h97 is probably wasted. I think the b85 boards are a decent sort usually. You just need to figure out what you need out of a board. Connections are pretty important like USB HDMI audio ect. Will you ever need/want to put in a 2nd GPU?

I know the i5-4460 isn't a "K" series chip and can't be over clocked but the MSI Z97 is not much more expensive than the H97 and I thought it might save the young lad having to buy a board if in a couple of years he wants to put on a 2nd GPU or replace the chip with a clockable one.

This MSI B85 board is more expensive than the Z97 board I had spec'd. http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/151626/ASRock+Fatal1ty+B85+Killer%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article

I guess as many USB and sound ports as possible is important but I thought HDMI was taken care of by the graphics card? Am I shoing my ignorance?

If it's a choice between a board designed for gaming with lot's of ports etc (B85?) and a future proof board which will allow the addition of a second GPU and an overclockable CPU etc but isn't as suited to gaming then I'd probably go for the former as I know there is a requirement for gaming whereas I don't know if my son will ever get round to upgrading the CPU and overclocking etc.

Can I ask what board you'd recommend?

Lu Tze

BenEadir wrote: »

I know the i5-4460 isn't a "K" series chip and can't be over clocked but the MSI Z97 is not much more expensive than the H97 and I thought it might save the young lad having to buy a board if in a couple of years he wants to put on a 2nd GPU or replace the chip with a clockable one.

This MSI B85 board is more expensive than the Z97 board I had spec'd. http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/151626/ASRock+Fatal1ty+B85+Killer%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article

I guess as many USB and sound ports as possible is important but I thought HDMI was taken care of by the graphics card? Am I shoing my ignorance?

If it's a choice between a board designed for gaming with lot's of ports etc (B85?) and a future proof board which will allow the addition of a second GPU and an overclockable CPU etc but isn't as suited to gaming then I'd probably go for the former as I know there is a requirement for gaming whereas I don't know if my son will ever get round to upgrading the CPU and overclocking etc.

Can I ask what board you'd recommend?

I all depends on what you are looking for in a board, go with the cheapest one from a reputable brand that suits your needs is what i say.

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

I all depends on what you are looking for in a board, go with the cheapest one from a reputable brand that suits your needs is what i say.

I guess I don't know what it is I'm looking for on a board

It's going to be primarily a gaming PC 70% of the time and a family/home office PC 30% of the time.

Would you (or someone) mind giving me a steer on what I should be looking for in a motherboard? The CPU I'm getting (the i5-4460) can't be over clocked so I guess the priority for the Motherboard should be to facilitate maximum functionality from the assembled components at the best value for money. I agree there is no point paying €80 for a motherboard if the rest of the set up can't take advantage of the motherboards functionality but I also recognise there's no point skimping and paying €35 for a board which won't allow the rest of the machine to perform to it's full potential.

Does any of that make sense?

Help!!

Lu Tze

BenEadir wrote: »

I guess I don't know what it is I'm looking for on a board

It's going to be primarily a gaming PC 70% of the time and a family/home office PC 30% of the time.

Would you (or someone) mind giving me a steer on what I should be looking for in a motherboard? The CPU I'm getting (the i5-4460) can't be over clocked so I guess the priority for the Motherboard should be to facilitate maximum functionality from the assembled components at the best value for money. I agree there is no point paying €80 for a motherboard if the rest of the set up can't take advantage of the motherboards functionality but I also recognise there's no point skimping and paying €35 for a board which won't allow the rest of the machine to perform to it's full potential.

Does any of that make sense?

Help!!

I would go for a bog standard one if you have no particular special needs. A H81 motherboard from ASrock. They have all your usual connections, network, video ports (you can use it without a video card as that processor has on-board video) sound ports, usually 6-8 usb on the back, they nearly all now i imagine have headers for connecting usb3 ports on the front of the case. They wont be SLI or crossfire ready though, if that is an issue.

I would base the decision on are you likely to overclock (which would require a new processor) or add in a second graphics card down the road.

If yes, go for something like you had.
If no but you might, and you want to keep the option open regardless, then go for something like you had, thats fair enough.
If no, go for something which fits your needs, as otherwise you are just paying for potential options in the future, which you may end up never using and when it may be better value at that stage to leap to the next generation of processors, motherboards etc.

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

I would base the decision on are you likely to overclock (which would require a new processor) or add in a second graphics card down the road.......If no, go for something which fits your needs, as otherwise you are just paying for potential options in the future, which you may end up never using.

^^^^^ Nail on head right there!

No point paying for upgradeability that is unlikely to be taken advantage of.

I'll have a look at H81 motherboards in the morning.

Thanks.

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

I would go for a bog standard one if you have no particular special needs. A H81 motherboard from ASrock.

Like this one MRTULES recommended yesterday http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/127053/ASRock+H81M%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+mATX.article?pvid=4p4uoi5ny_i2nxbeo0&ref=13

This is a great learning experience for me I have to say.

I'll re-configure the machine with the ASRock H81 motherboard and post it for final comments before getting the credit card out!!!

Thanks

BenEadir

So here is the Final spec. i5-4460, H81 motherboard, R9 280 Graphics Card, a SansDisk 128GB SSD, 8GB Ram and a 2TB HDD in a well ventilated case.



If there is anything wrong with this set up or tweaks I should make before placing the order please let me know.

Thanks again for all your help, it's been a great learning experience.

Chris_Heilong

Looks like a great build for the money.

BenEadir

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Looks like a great build for the money.

Thanks Chris, I appreciate the positive feedback.

geosynchronous orbit

Nice build - just a question !!- you have selected an MATX board in that build- are you sure on that? nothing wrong with it at all - just pointing it out in case

BenEadir

geosynchronous orbit wrote: »

Nice build - just a question !!- you have selected an MATX board in that build- are you sure on that? nothing wrong with it at all - just pointing it out in case

I don't know much about motherboards, it's the weakest part of my knowledge. I figured out the pro's and con's of the CPU options, the graphics card, the benefit of having an SSD and how to select a good tower with plenty of air flow etc but all I could figure out about the motherboards was that a) you need to match the board to the CPU type (AMD boards and Intel CPU's as I had originally configured won't work ) plus there are H81 "basic" boards which do the job and are the best value for money at around €40 or B85 boards which are more gaming oriented (but I don't know how) which are more expensive and then there are H97 and Z97 which are the most functional but contain functionality I will either not use or can use i.e. the Z97 is designed for overclockable processors but the i5 I'm going with isn't overclockable plus they allow for SLI/Crossfire which I think relates to the ability to add in a second graphics card in the future to boost graphics performance.

I really don't have much of a clue though so went with a basic H81 motherboards but I've no idea what MATX even means.

I'd really appreciate someone who knows about these things putting me straight if there is a more suitable card I should go with. I'm happy to spend the extra €20-€30 to get it right if necessary.

Cheers.

MRTULES

Matx refers to the size or form factor of the board.
There are 3 "usual" sizes. Big ATX, middle Matx and small ITX.
Generally it is dependent on the size of your case so if you want a small case you get an itx board. I have an Matx b85m board from AsRock even though my case could fit an ATX board. Smaller means less stuff and stuff means slots for ram or GPUs ect...
That is my limited knowledge of motherboards anyway. I am by no means an expert at all and have only built one PC ever. All I have learned was from this forum mostly (and its great contributors) so take anything I recommend with a pinch of salt.
The reason to go for Matx over ATX is again to do with extras you won't use vs price.
A lot of people factor in the look of the board to match their case aesthetics seen as most of them do pretty much the same thing.
Hope this helps.

Lu Tze

BenEadir wrote: »

I don't know much about motherboards, it's the weakest part of my knowledge. I figured out the pro's and con's of the CPU options, the graphics card, the benefit of having an SSD and how to select a good tower with plenty of air flow etc but all I could figure out about the motherboards was that a) you need to match the board to the CPU type (AMD boards and Intel CPU's as I had originally configured won't work ) plus there are H81 "basic" boards which do the job and are the best value for money at around €40 or B85 boards which are more gaming oriented (but I don't know how) which are more expensive and then there are H97 and Z97 which are the most functional but contain functionality I will either not use or can use i.e. the Z97 is designed for overclockable processors but the i5 I'm going with isn't overclockable plus they allow for SLI/Crossfire which I think relates to the ability to add in a second graphics card in the future to boost graphics performance.

I really don't have much of a clue though so went with a basic H81 motherboards but I've no idea what MATX even means.

I'd really appreciate someone who knows about these things putting me straight if there is a more suitable card I should go with. I'm happy to spend the extra €20-€30 to get it right if necessary.

Cheers.

This is a brief summary of the difference between H81, B85 and H87 and Z97, might make things a little clearer.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z87-H87-H81-Q87-Q85-B85-What-is-the-difference-473/

There are three main size for motherboards, ATX, mATX and ITX from big to small respectively.

The larger ATX motherboard typically provides additional pci/pci express slots for addition of soundcards, networking cards, graphics card etc. mATX only has 3. This doesnt put me off mATX as most of the bove also have equivalent usb products if you run out of slots down the line.

The case you picked, the zalman Z3 supports the larger size ATX motherboards, but will also support mATX. You could get a smaller case if you want, if you prefer something not quite so large. Have a look through this section for cases that support mATX, but arent big enough for ATX

http://www.hardwareversand.de/634/MATX.search

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

This is a brief summary of the difference between H81, B85 and H87 and Z97, might make things a little clearer.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Z87-H87-H81-Q87-Q85-B85-What-is-the-difference-473/

There are three main size for motherboards, ATX, mATX and ITX from big to small respectively.

The larger ATX motherboard typically provides additional pci/pci express slots for addition of soundcards, networking cards, graphics card etc.

That's fantastic info, cheers. The article was nice and clear so I now have the info needed to make an informed decision.

Having read the article and looked at the prices I have swapped out the H81 motherboard for an MSI Z97 PC Mate, Sockel 1150, ATX board which includes a DVi port and that will make connecting to the existing monitor a lot easier, see http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/165931/MSI+Z97+PC+Mate%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article. It's €30 more and I know it facilitates overclocking yet the CPU I'm getting can't be over clocked but in 2-3 years if the young lad wants to change to an overclockable CPU he'll be able to do so without having to replace the motherboard. I've also agreed that we're going to have a go at building the PC together ourselves over Xmas so the €30 extra on the motherboard will be offset by the €30 we save building it ourselves.

One thought - do hardwareversand.de do Black Friday specials? Should I wait to order this next Friday the 28th? If I do will I'd still have it in plenty of time for Xmas so perhaps I should wait and see?

Lu Tze wrote: »

The case you picked, the zalman Z3 supports the larger size ATX motherboards, but will also support mATX. You could get a smaller case if you want

I'm lucky that the space the box will be going into is built into the side of a desk/play area and it will easily accommodate the larger midi tower. In fact it may look better filled with a midi tower than half empty with a mini tower. The PC that's there already is a midi type tower. The Zalman Z3 comes configured with two fans Vs most midi's only having two. I assume the extra ventilation can only be a good thing??

So, after all that here is what the build currently looks like. I'm hoping that I can run it through http://geizhals.de and get it delivered bang on the €700 budget.

BenEadir

Now that I'm getting into the frame of mind for building this machine I have a couple of questions:-

1. Can I cannibalise the old Dell Inspiron and use it's 1TB HDD, 4GB RAM and Win 7 OS in the New Machine?

2. If I use the old Dell HDD will the new machine boot up and be configured just like the old machine? (That would save me a lot of time re-loading programs, downloading data which is backed up online with Carbonite etc etc)

3. Will the Win 7 licence which came with the Dell Inspiron work on the new machine or is it likely to be a Dell OEM licence which can only be installed on a Dell machine?

Lu Tze

BenEadir wrote: »

Having read the article and looked at the prices I have swapped out the H81 motherboard for an MSI Z97 PC Mate, Sockel 1150, ATX board which includes a DVi port and that will make connecting to the existing monitor a lot easier, see http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/165931/MSI+Z97+PC+Mate%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article.

Just a final comment on this, you will have a DVI slot on your graphics card, and you can use a hdmi to dvi cable to connect to your monitor. Just in case this is the driving factor.

On the plus side, you also get two extra ram slots with that board, so if you if you need more ram down the road you can just add extra instead of having to replace the current ram with higher capacity ones. And crossfire support if needed.

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

Just a final comment on this, you will have a DVI slot on your graphics card

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that and thought it would be best to go with the Z97 which had the DVi port.

If there's already a DVi on the graphics card I might as well save €9 and go with the http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/166012/Gigabyte+GA-Z97P-D3%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article motherboard even though the Max Allocated RAM Size on that board is 1GB Vs 1.76GB on the MSi board?

Lu Tze

BenEadir wrote: »

Thanks, I wasn't sure about that and thought it would be best to go with the Z97 which had the DVi port.

If there's already a DVi on the graphics card I might as well save €9 and go with the http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/166012/Gigabyte+GA-Z97P-D3%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+ATX.article motherboard even though the Max Allocated RAM Size on that board is 1GB Vs 1.76GB on the MSi board?

I have no idea what that refers! You'll have to get googling!

BenEadir

Lu Tze wrote: »

You'll have to get googling!

And Google is indeed my friend.

"On older boards way-back-when which only supported 2GB RAM in total this sort of thing referred to what you would expect to see after on-board video hardware and other devices and consumed some.

On a modern board like this (which supports 64GB as the other specs state) this refers to what memory can be allocated to the on-board GPU - so you might put 8GB in there but only see ~6.25 GB available to OS/apps/games as the GPU has claimed the remainder for its work. You usually have some control over what the GPU does claim, and of course if you completely replace its function with an add-on card (which you likely will if building a machine for gaming) it should take 0."

So it refers to how much RAM the board will allocate to onboard graphics card if you're using one but it's irrelevant if there's a dedicated graphics card.

.G.

I wouldn't get hung up on being able to replace the CPU in 2-3 years without replacing the motherboard because its possible intel will change the socket used for newer cpu's so you'd have to change motherboard either way if you wanted a newer cpu. For example I built my PC 4 years ago with an i7 chip and the socket was 1366. That socket is now obsolete so if I wanted a new CPU i'd have to change my motherboard as well.

Also I bought an itx MSI board based, among other things, on its ability to allocate 1GB to onboard graphics and when I tried it it didn't work and they had to release a bios update to reduce that to 500MB! If your buying a GPU though it doesn't matter.

BenEadir

superg wrote: »

I wouldn't get hung up on being able to replace the CPU in 2-3 years without replacing the motherboard because its possible intel will change the socket used for newer cpu's so you'd have to change motherboard either way if you wanted a newer cpu. For example I built my PC 4 years ago with an i7 chip and the socket was 1366. That socket is now obsolete so if I wanted a new CPU i'd have to change my motherboard as well.

Also I bought an itx MSI board based, among other things, on its ability to allocate 1GB to onboard graphics and when I tried it it didn't work and they had to release a bios update to reduce that to 500MB! If your buying a GPU though it doesn't matter.

Thanks Super G, appreciate the feedback.

Despite the fact the Z97 is €30 more expensive than the entry level H81 board I think I'll stick with it. It's got more slots for expansion and in 2-3 years if Intel go with a new socket it will probably be quite easy to pick up the latest "old" 1150 based i7 blah blah blah for relatively little money thus extending the life of the machine for a couple of years, even if it's just as a nippy home/home office PC.

.G.

Yeah you could do. Only final thing I'd say is absolutely build it yourself. There's really nothing to it and when you've done your first one you'll have the bug.Your wallet won't thank you when the bug bites though

BenEadir

superg wrote: »

Yeah you could do. Only final thing I'd say is absolutely build it yourself. There's really nothing to it and when you've done your first one you'll have the bug.Your wallet won't thank you when the bug bites though

Thanks superg, we're definitely leaving towards having it as a Xmas "build" project. It's a bit daunting not having done it before but I'm sure with a bit of patience and lots of YouTube assistance we'll get there.

Chris_Heilong

BenEadir wrote: »

Thanks superg, we're definitely leaving towards having it as a Xmas "build" project. It's a bit daunting not having done it before but I'm sure with a bit of patience and lots of YouTube assistance we'll get there.

When I build my first PC there was no youtube or instructions and it could be done no problem, its basically lego. Now that we have youtube every step is explained in detail. You wont regret building it yourself.

.G.

Defo.

The manual that comes with the case will likely show how to install the Mobo and PSU in the case and the Mobo manual will explain the rest. People think its more complex than it is.

BenEadir

I'm going to be on here begging for help Xmas day lads so make sure you're online

BenEadir

For those who have (painstakingly) helped me figure out how I should configure my sons new gaming PC (and part time family PC) THANK YOU.

I finally put a spec together which I feel represents the best value for money for my €700 budget and thanks to you guys I'm (we're) going to build it ourselves over Xmas.

I just placed the order and by running the parts through https://skinflint.co.uk (the UK version of http://geizhals.de) and applying a €20 discount code I got here http://www.gutscheinsammler.de/gutscheine/hardwareversand I ended up with the following for €702 delivered.



Thanks everyone, your help on this interesting learning curve (part one) has been much appreciated.