visa debit card tap payment works when 'insuffient' funds in account

kumate_champ07

I can use my card in Tesco and Lidl for payments under 10 euro ,even if my balance is a couple of euro and has been for a few days

it usually takes 2-3 working days for the transaction to appear but I can use the card as many times as I want for the tap payment. I get paid on wednesdays and usually those previous tap payments dont go thru while my balance is almost empty

this happened today


18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 11    10.00        -53.56
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 10    10.00       
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 9    10.00       
18/11/2014     POSC15NOV LIDL IRELAN    5.60       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    9.77       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    6.55   


why am I being penalised when my card is obviously being authorised for those instore payments, the card doesnt work when my balance is negative, and sometimes it doesnt work in Lidl, thats happened twice but then I go to Tesco and the card works

how are these fees justified? Im seriously considering moving to a different bank

Bank of Ireland: Sarah

Hi kumate_champ07,

Thanks for contacting us here on Boards.

Sorry to hear you are unhappy with regards these fees on your account.

As this is very much account specific, we would be unable to discuss this further with you here on Boards. If you would like us to arrange a call to you from a branch representative, who can then check this for you, please let us know in a private message. Please include your name, contact phone number and your account holding branch in your private message (please do not include your account number).

To send a private message, please click on the link in my signature below. You will need to have signatures set to display and private messages enabled.

Thanks,
Sarah

The Voice of reason

Why would you use your card if you didn't have enough money on it? Surely you have to shoulder the responability for your actions here!

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I can use my card in Tesco and Lidl for payments under 10 euro ,even if my balance is a couple of euro and has been for a few days

it usually takes 2-3 working days for the transaction to appear but I can use the card as many times as I want for the tap payment. I get paid on wednesdays and usually those previous tap payments dont go thru while my balance is almost empty

this happened today


18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 11    10.00        -53.56
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 10    10.00       
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 9    10.00       
18/11/2014     POSC15NOV LIDL IRELAN    5.60       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    9.77       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    6.55   


why am I being penalised when my card is obviously being authorised for those instore payments, the card doesnt work when my balance is negative, and sometimes it doesnt work in Lidl, thats happened twice but then I go to Tesco and the card works

how are these fees justified? Im seriously considering moving to a different bank

Delta2113

It's not a credit card -that's how you seem to be using it.

kumate_champ07

The Voice of reason wrote: »

Why would you use your card if you didn't have enough money on it? Surely you have to shoulder the responability for your actions here!

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I can use my card in Tesco and Lidl for payments under 10 euro ,even if my balance is a couple of euro and has been for a few days

it usually takes 2-3 working days for the transaction to appear but I can use the card as many times as I want for the tap payment. I get paid on wednesdays and usually those previous tap payments dont go thru while my balance is almost empty

this happened today


18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 11    10.00        -53.56
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 10    10.00       
18/11/2014     CHG-OVRLIMIT ITEM 9    10.00       
18/11/2014     POSC15NOV LIDL IRELAN    5.60       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    9.77       
18/11/2014     POSC16NOV TESCO STORE    6.55   


why am I being penalised when my card is obviously being authorised for those instore payments, the card doesnt work when my balance is negative, and sometimes it doesnt work in Lidl, thats happened twice but then I go to Tesco and the card works

how are these fees justified? Im seriously considering moving to a different bank

I was hungry

kumate_champ07

Delta2113 wrote: »

It's not a credit card -that's how you seem to be using it.

if its not a credit card why is it providing credit?

Red Alert

Seen as the BOI reps seem unwilling to give a rough explanation, my understanding is as follows: Most of the time, the debit card in contactless mode does an offline authorisation. The problem with an offline authorisation is that the card doesn't know your account status, so once the card is valid then it'll OK the transaction.  The reason for an offline authorisation is speed: it doesn't need to contact any other computer to verify your transaction, so the contactless method usually authorises much faster.  (To get an idea, try a chip transaction and a contactless transaction on the self checkouts in Tesco.  The contactless is very very fast.) 

The chip can do an offline authorisation too, but most of the time in Ireland it doesn't.  Very occasionally you'll see the phrase "Offline PIN verified" on a card slip. 

You may be better off pushing this issue with your local branch manager, and mention that you may be considering moving bank. 

Delta2113

Because the contact less transactions are processed offline so your balance in your current account is not checked.

The banks should make things clearer but then they wouldn't catch people out as often, just like you got caught.

Red Alert

Good point Delta2113, which I totally forgot to include!! 

collie0708

I love how it's the banks fault for charging someone who was using the card even though they knew there was no money on it...

kumate_champ07

Red Alert wrote: »

Seen as the BOI reps seem unwilling to give a rough explanation, my understanding is as follows: Most of the time, the debit card in contactless mode does an offline authorisation. The problem with an offline authorisation is that the card doesn't know your account status, so once the card is valid then it'll OK the transaction.  The reason for an offline authorisation is speed: it doesn't need to contact any other computer to verify your transaction, so the contactless method usually authorises much faster.  (To get an idea, try a chip transaction and a contactless transaction on the self checkouts in Tesco.  The contactless is very very fast.) 

The chip can do an offline authorisation too, but most of the time in Ireland it doesn't.  Very occasionally you'll see the phrase "Offline PIN verified" on a card slip. 

You may be better off pushing this issue with your local branch manager, and mention that you may be considering moving bank. 

thanks, Im aware of all of that but it must know something about my balance if it doesnt authorize a payment when its negative. I fail to see the need to have to waste money on the phone when this apparent 'customer service' is available


every official response in this forum seems to be read from a 'cheat sheet' with a final suggestion to call them on the phone, If I wanted to call them Id have done that already. its like Im communicating with an AI application

kumate_champ07

collie0708 wrote: »

I love how it's the banks fault for charging someone who was using the card even though they knew there was no money on it...

thats correct, the card is not working as its supposed to. its not a credit card, but allows credit. If the funds are topped up a few days later theres no reason for those 10euro penalties. banks screw people with technicalities, this is a technicality they are wrong on.

Bank of Ireland: Sarah

Hi kumate_champ07,

Thanks for your reply. 

As mentioned in my first post, we are unable to go into this in detail here as it is account specific. We can answer general queries here and are happy to arrange a call back from a representative with account access to go through this with you. Please send us a private message and we will be happy to arrange this. 

We would also always advise using your card only when you have the available funds in your account. This will prevent any fees from being accrued on your account. It is now possible to check your balance online, on our mobile app, new tablet app and at an ATM. An over limit charge will apply when you go into an unauthorised overdraft. You can find the details of our fees and charges here. 

Thanks,
Sarah

Red Alert

This is not account specific.  The original poster is pointing out that the logic behind card authorisation seems to allow a tap to pay when insufficient funds exist, presumably this behaviour will appear for all accounts? 

Jarko

2017 and this is still an issue. It takes them forever to update your ballance at 365online yet they still charge you with overlimit. Shame on you BOI, i'll move to AIB soon.

myshirt

Jarko wrote: »

2017 and this is still an issue. It takes them forever to update your ballance at 365online yet they still charge you with overlimit. Shame on you BOI, i'll move to AIB soon.

Sher they are all the same. Don't you have to pay a fee with some banks to restrict your account from going overdrawn. Good money maker there. Charge you a couple of quid for *cough cough* an "unauthorised overdraft".

kumate_champ07

another example, if I have 2 euro in my account and the tap function doesnt work and it asks for my pin , I buy an item for under 2 euro. I can then use the tap function again 3 times before Im asked for my pin. obviously if I do this Im responsible for penalites which is why I will do this within a day or 2 of getting money into my account so Im within the time limit.  but this is not a service I asked for, its an overdraft which I didnt authorize, in fact I havent seen any details about it, I discovered it thru daily usage


Ive had money returned to my account a few days after a purchase a few times, so it gives a false account balance,

its gone when I buy the items, then its back, then its gone again. it all seems very convenient for the banks to not have a real time balance, its a nice little earner for them.

Jarko

myshirt wrote: »

Sher they are all the same. Don't you have to pay a fee with some banks to restrict your account from going overdrawn. Good money maker there. Charge you a couple of quid for *cough cough* an "unauthorised overdraft".

That's insane. I swear. Why do they let me order food, pay online and even withdraw money - THEY LET ME - and then they charge me few days later for going over limit. Do BOI really want me to check my account every hour? Unstable bank, really can't rely on what's shown online and i called them, they were talking typical **** like politicians do, without a thing making sense so instead of me just hanging up i acted like i got what the person was saying, i said thank you you did a good job and have nice day - didn't want to ruin somebody's shift just because of a bank they're speaking for...I lived in several countries and without a doubt, BOI is the worst bank i've ever been to. Everyone was telling me to avoid them when i got to Ireland, but it's a freaking bank OF Ireland! National bank, irish bank for irish people and people living in Ireland. It's supposed to be #1 for native people, why do irish people tell me to go with AIB instead? BOI should be the best like?

Jarko

Guys, what i'm using now is Apple Pay and the App Boon. It will generate sort of digital MasterCard, you can top up 10-100€ and it's booked as a whole let's say 100€ from your account. So when you go to 365online you see -100€. In the Boon App, you see every ****ing thing you bought and it's right there, real time. Every cent you spend, it's there immediately. Just discovered this when Apple Pay came to Ireland. BOI doesn't even support Apple Pay directly, you have to have Boon. What a...ah...

myshirt

The technology is there and the technology works. It's just that there is money to be made by transfering money back and forth and back and forth in a financial system.

Take the whole 2 or 3 days for a bank transfer, or 2 or 3 days to cash a cheque. All that is going on is they are lending it on money markets or using it to meet short term liquidity requirements instead of just f#cking putting it into your account. 25 snots then for a same day transfer that likely cost cents. What a mark up.

Quackster

Since I started using N26 and Revolut, I haven't looked back. Instant notification of transactions on phone. Balance updated instantly. Contactless transactions verified online (and no slower as a result). And best of all, completely free!

I couldn't begin to imagine going back to banking with this dinosaur.