Attachment of earnings order - self employed

armstrongracer

Hi,

I'm a separated, unmarried father paying maintenance. In June my company went into liquidation and I was made redunant without any redundancy being paid. We separated about a year before that and between legal fees and settlement all my savings have gone. I started looking for work immediately but couldn't pay maintenance since I had to support myself on €188/week jobseekers allowance. Although I had already stated having interviews my ex issued a circuit court motion after only 1 missed payment and without as much as a solicitors letter being issued first. In August I started work again but in much reduced circumstances. I am paying maintenance again but she is still going through with court proceedings. Claiming back maintenance and legal costs, the fees will probably be more than the back maintenance. I will have to defend myself because I can't afford a lawyer.

The question is this; I am employed now as a Ltd company contractor. So essentially I work for a company that has myself as the sole employee and director. I get no holiday pay or sickness pay so have to acrue for this. The other side have simply multiplied my hourly rate by 37, then by 52 and come up with hugely inflated annual salary. The affadavit of means I sent includes my contract so her solicitor knows the terms. They are just trying it on. The notice of motion is seeking an Attachment of Earnings order. How does this work for self employed people? Some months are 4 paid weeks, others are 5, if I'm sick or on holiday and can't work my earnings are reduced. Also within that monthly figure I have to acrue for holidays and accountants fees. This is not like paye.

Pat Mustard

Self employed people tend to show their income by reference to their accounts.

If you can't pay for a solicitor, you can go to the legal aid board.

armstrongracer

Cheers,

Am earning too much for legal aid, unfortunately the contract is in Cork and I live in Dublin, my outgoings are very high and I'm barely breaking even. Court is in a few weeks, I will only have 3 months worth invoices and no full accounts to show. Before this I was on PAYE.

Stheno

armstrongracer wrote: »

Cheers,

Am earning too much for legal aid, unfortunately the contract is in Cork and I live in Dublin, my outgoings are very high and I'm barely breaking even. Court is in a few weeks, I will only have 3 months worth invoices and no full accounts to show. Before this I was on PAYE.

Are you doing the accounts yourself?

armstrongracer

Yup,

I contracted about 7 years ago so I know the ropes. However all I have to show the court are three invoices, timesheets from the client, Vat receipts and some small expense claims. I've had no days off so far and if they project 10 weeks worth of earnings over 52 weeks I will get hammered. Also how would an attachment of earnings work for a self employed person with no savings. Essentially I'm living month to month, I pay myself a varying monthly wage based on take home from the month before, less deductions to cover holiday's etc.. The client is a big multinational and even the date that they pay my invoices can vary by a week or two.

Pat Mustard

armstrongracer wrote: »

Cheers,

Am earning too much for legal aid, unfortunately the contract is in Cork and I live in Dublin, my outgoings are very high and I'm barely breaking even. Court is in a few weeks, I will only have 3 months worth invoices and no full accounts to show. Before this I was on PAYE.

It depends on disposable income, among other factors.

If you are barely breaking even, then it sounds like your disposable income may be quite low, in which case you may qualify for legal aid.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/legal_aid_and_advice/civil_legal_advice_and_legal_aid.html

If your disposable income is more than €18,000 then I don't think that you'll qualify for legal aid. However, if that's the case, I would think that you could afford to hire private representation.

armstrongracer

Anyone have any idea what the court's can do or have done, regarding Attachment of Earnings Orders with respect to self employed people. I'm actually worried that they will try to approach my client. They are an American Multinational Pharma company and would drop me like a stone if they thought they were going to get caught up in a legal case. When I had a solicitor before, she said that family law solicitors and judges in particular have a real problem with self employed people and cant get their heads around the fact that technically there is no employer for them to get the money from at source. They seem to think everyone is on paye. Essentially I am my own employer here.

Pat Mustard

armstrongracer wrote: »

Essentially I am my own employer here.

armstrongracer wrote: »

I am employed now as a Ltd company contractor. So essentially I work for a company that has myself as the sole employee and director.

www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKPC/1960/1960_33.html

Lee v Lee's Air Farming

Catherine Lee’s husband Geoffrey Lee formed the company through Christchurch accountants, which worked in Canterbury, New Zealand. It spread fertilisers on farmland from the air, known as top dressing. Mr Lee held 2999 of 3000 shares, was the sole director and employed as the chief pilot. He was killed in a plane crash. Mrs Lee wished to claim damages of 2,430 pounds under the Workers’ Compensation Act 1922 for the death of her husband, and he needed to be a ‘worker’, or ‘any person who has entered into or works under a contract of service… with an employer… whether remunerated by wages, salary or otherwise.’ The company was insured (as required) for worker compensation.

There appears to be no great difficulty in holding that a man acting in one capacity can make a contract with himself in another capacity. The company and the deceased were separate legal entities.

Even though Mr. Lee was the sole director and majority shareholder in Lee's Air Farming Ltd., he was still held to be an employee of the company. Therefore, the company was his employer.

philc1974

You could counter her pursuit of arrears with a variation of maintenance order, basically you want the amount what you pay in maintenance reduced as your financial situation has changed, it also depends on which judge you get...
That Dolphin House is a horrible place!

philc1974

You could counter her pursuit of arrears with a variation of maintenance order, basically you want the amount what you pay in maintenance reduced as your financial situation has changed, if only she makes an application, they will only act on her allegation, if you have a variation of maintenance application toothey have to look at that too. It also depends on which judge you get...

I dont think they will drag your clients into court as the court itself has an "In Camera" rule which is basically means it is conducted in secrecy to protect the children...this is where your civil rights get trampled on by pro-woman judges.. and this is where spiteful ex's get to abuse the situation

Go to dolphin house and seek a variation of maintenance order.

You dont need a solicitor to speak on your behalf and you will convey your own financial situation much better than any solicitor.

Hope that helps

armstrongracer

Thanks Phil,

That's exactly the situation I will be in 3 weeks from now. My ex went straight to circuit court when my arrears were only €800, I'm back working and paying maintenance but the arrears are €3k. They are claiming back maintenance, interest and legal costs. I have been fully open with respect to affidavit of means etc.. There is no money there and they know it. As it's circuit court & family law it will be me on my own and a room full of women, including the judge. Basically a firing squad with me up against the wall.

Her solicitor is a real piece of work, opening line of the motion is a statement saying that I should be comitted to prison for failing to comply with last years separation agreement. Now, the bank statements I furnished show that with the very last salary cheque I recieved before the company went into liquidation I paid maintenance, leaving me €1000 overdrawn and with €188/week coming in.

They are also claiming that although I am on a temp contract with only 1 months notice I should move to Cork and on the weekends I have my children, stay in Dublin with my seriously ill 80 year old mother and two hyperactive 6 year old children. The stress of that would kill her, I'd rather go to prison than be culpable for the premature death of my mother. Also I'm living in an unfurnished house with 30 years worth of posessions and a 6 month termination agreement. Are these guy's living in the real world?

philc1974

Their solicitors are trained to be ruthless, they are kinda like guard dogs to their rented owner!, you have your say, then she has hers, The solicitor can intervene all she wants while you argue your position, the judge might tell her to be quiet while you talk. Its not nervy at all, more frustrating as solicitors tend to skip over details you might think important, so my advice would be to:

-Write down everything about your situation

-Cover all your bases with explanation written down too, that way if your mind goes blank, you have bullet points to fall back on

-Dont lie, that way you wont have to remember everything you said

-Be clear as you can and to the point

One thing that will stop eventually is that you wont be paying her legal fees if you on 188 per week, she will need to seek legal aid in future, if you are working on and off, you need to cover outgoings first which wont leave much disposable income, make sure you drive that point home

Again the outcome depends on which judge you get, some are proper cnuts, others are more even spreading of things if you know what i mean

Hope that helps

Pixie Chief

Might sound like a ridiculous suggestion but could you try the Family Mediation Service before court. I've no idea what the waiting times are like but a mediator would surely take more time assessing the finances than a judge? Courts seem quite supportive of people trying to mediate so perhaps you could request mediation in court given that finances are complicated, you're doing your best to sort it out and just need a bit of time and help to do so properly?

lomb

Its a tough position to be in .How much is the maintainance for?

armstrongracer

Pixie, never even got the chance. My ex went straight to Circuit Court when arrears were only €800, I never even got a solicitors letter first. She's just bitter and spiteful. Last year she dragged me though the courts, her Solicitor conducted what could only be described as an evil campaign to get me to react, they failed miserably and backed down on the steps of court. Upon disclosure it turned out that my ex had lied to her own solicitor hugely as to my savings and essentially every penny of the settlement I gave her went to cover her legal bill. The financial predicament she's in is totally the result of her actions. If I had any savings left I would have maintained maintenance payments after the job wen't. The good news is that I got joint custody and very good access to my beautiful children.

Thanks Phil, sounds like you've been through this before They are trying the "Throw enough mud and some will stick" approach. 80-90% of what's in their motion is just a down right lie. I have emails & texts to back everything up and rubbish everything my ex is saying. However my solicitor has said that judges have a short fuse when it comes to reams of detail so some of the nonsense might get through. Also I've a real problem with face-to-face lying, I'm worried that I will lose it with the solicitor, which is probably her plan. Female judges tend not to react kindly to what they percieve as agressive fathers, no matter how much pressure they are under.

Hi Lomb, maintenance is €800/month. The problem is that the only work I could find is in Cork, the same salary in Dublin would allow me to pay maintenance and also pay off the arrears pretty quickly. Which I have promised her if I found something in Dublin. However, salary has to cover rent in Dublin, fuel to Cork, 4 nights in a B&B plus maintenance. I'm left with €200/week to live on and cover all bills etc. There is no way I can pay the arrears at the moment. However, I suspect that there is a back story here. I live two streets away from my ex and the kids, she now has a fella and doesn't want me around. Think she is trying to lever me out of the house and out of Dublin.

philc1974

they wont accept texts,if you know her solicitors plan then be wise to it, female judges are a hell of a lot more partial to your arguement than a male judge... just think a ban garda and how they would treat a woman who was caught speeding and the woman started crying...bull**** filter would kick in right?

Game plan, expect everything thrown at you, keep composure, stay calm, be polite, state your argument, be precise and back everything up with facts, if ex makes a claim, ask her to prove it and you prove her wrong with statements and receipts and notices of arrears in loans, credit cards etc... thats your angle going into this

above all, dont lie, they will rip you to shreds, you have no reason to lie, be exact and upfront, but dont let anger make you out to be some sort of troll or monster under their attempts to bring out the worst in you, stay calm, collected and speak clear and back everything up with facts, statements, social welfare statements, receipts, demands off banks/credit union/credit cards

you are there to state that your financial situation has changed dramatically and consideration is in order

Stay calm and collected

Be ready!