Ireland V Oz build up thread [MOD WARNING POST #90]

justsomebloke

Usual rules of engagement apply.....


...and they're off


copy of .ak's warning in post 90

No more of of this going forward. Accusations of bias or sniping or derailing the thread will result in a 1 week ban. Infact, I recommend certain posters just ignore each other all together if you can't stop yourself being dragged into petty arguments and pot shots at each other.

sydthebeat

we owe these feckers BIG TIME!!!!!!!!

sullivlo

I think this will be our biggest test / barometer of Schmidts tenure to date. A year since they hockied us, it will be very interesting to see how we perform, particularly given that Australia will be a different beast under Cheika.

.ak was right this time last year - we showed promise against the Wallabies - and it was small margins in which we lost.

FWIW, my team:

McGrath
Strauss (Cronin to come on at 60)
Ross
Toner
POC
POM
Ruddock (not looking likely for Henry)
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Zebo (pure lack of other options - unless Luke is parachuted in)
Darcy (Henshaw if Payne fit)
Henshaw (Payne if fit)
Bowe
Kearney

Killer
Cronin
Ah You
Foley
TOD
Marmion (showed yesterday he can up the tempo too)
Madigan (Keatley didn't play 10 yesterday)
Jones (deserves the 23)

Larbre34

Even if Henry were fit and ready, I think he'd do well to push back ahead of Ruddock or O'Mahony. They have the potential to devastate the Qantas Wannabees.

.ak

That's probably who'd I'd go with too. Altho I'd have a different bench; McCarthy and Reddan to keep their places, but maybe Foley's fresh legs might be an asset.

Buer

McGrath, Strauss/Cronin (think Cronin might get the nod), Ross, Toner, POC, POM, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Zebo, D'Arcy, Henshaw, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss/Cronin, Kilcoyne, Ah You, Foley, TOD, Reddan, Madigan, Jones

I believe that'll be it.

Swiwi.

Repeat after me

Ireland are firm favourites
Ireland are ranked higher
Ireland are at home
Ireland just smashed South Africa

None of this plucky under-dog business please

Mahatma Geansai

Is Best definitely going to miss out?

TheDoctor

We should comfortably beat this lower ranked side.

S12b

Would none of ye have Rory Best in? I thought he was going to be fine for this one??

Neil3030

Any updates on Payne, Best or Henry?

vienne86

S12b wrote: »

Would none of ye have Rory Best in? I thought he was going to be fine for this one??

I certainly would have Best in even though he has not played any in this series. But things seem to have gone a bit quiet on his fitness.

1 McGrath No Brainer
2 Best I think he will be fit
3 Ross No Brainer
4 Toner No Brainer
5 POC No Brainer
6 POM No Brainer
7 Ruddock Have doubts about Henry. If Henry fit, Ruddock replaces TOD on Bench
8 Heaslip No Brainer
9 Murray No Brainer
10 Sexton No Brainer
11 Jones Better defensivly than Zebo, works harder and has a better kick chase.
12 D'arcy Would have started against SA, Payne more versatile from Bench
13 Henshaw Best centre after 1st two games
14 Bowe No Brainer
15 Kearney No Brainer
16 Kilcoyne No Brainer
17 Cronin If Best is not fit I think Strauss will start
18 Ah You No Brainer, actually thought he did well against Georgia
19 McCarthy I really like Foley, but think McCarthy will get the nod. More experience and more familiar with set up.
20 TOD Only drops if Henry fit
21 Reddan Marmion did nothing to displace Reddan and even if he was vastly superior on Sunday, Reddan would still get the nod. For now!
22 Madigan No Brainer, not just versatility - kicking % is key.
23 Payne 13, 15 - keeps madigan free for 12, or Henshaw to 12. Just makes sense.

Quint2010

Deleted User wrote: »

1 McGrath No Brainer
2 Best I think he will be fit
3 Ross No Brainer
4 Toner No Brainer
5 POC No Brainer
6 POM No Brainer
7 Ruddock Have doubts about Henry. If Henry fit, Ruddock replaces TOD on Bench
8 Heaslip No Brainer
9 Murray No Brainer
10 Sexton No Brainer
11 Jones Better defensivly than Zebo, works harder and has a better kick chase.
12 D'arcy Would have started against SA, Payne more versatile from Bench
13 Henshaw Best centre after 1st two games
14 Bowe No Brainer
15 Kearney No Brainer
16 Kilcoyne No Brainer
17 Cronin If Best is not fit I think Strauss will start
18 Ah You No Brainer, actually thought he did well against Georgia
19 McCarthy I really like Foley, but think McCarthy will get the nod. More experience and more familiar with set up.
20 TOD Only drops if Henry fit
21 Reddan Marmion did nothing to displace Reddan and even if he was vastly superior on Sunday, Reddan would still get the nod. For now!
22 Madigan No Brainer, not just versatility - kicking % is key.
23 Payne 13, 15 - keeps madigan free for 12, or Henshaw to 12. Just makes sense.

McCarthy over Foley after yesterday? Be very harsh call that.

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

Repeat after me

Ireland are firm favourites
Ireland are ranked higher
Ireland are at home
Ireland just smashed South Africa

None of this plucky under-dog business please

It's frustrating that two of our three tests this year are against minnows of the game

Nialler15

If Darcy is fit I would love to see Payne given a run at 15. His most natural position and think he is an overall better full back than Kearney.

former legend

Neil3030 wrote: »

Any updates on Payne, Best or Henry?

Hasn't been a word about Henry - presume he is out.

I read Joe saying that Payne hasn't been ruled out yet, if he can resume training tomorrow, he'll be considered, if not, he's out. I'd imagine Best is the same.

vienne86

Quint2010 wrote: »

McCarthy over Foley after yesterday? Be very harsh call that.

Yes, I got really excited about Foley yesterday, but to be fair to McCarthy, he had a great game. I'd say he'll hang on to his spot on the bench for now, but by theh six nations, it could be Foley's. Joe seems very enthusiastic about Foley.

shuffol

former legend wrote: »

Hasn't been a word about Henry - presume he is out.

I read Joe saying that Payne hasn't been ruled out yet, if he can resume training tomorrow, he'll be considered, if not, he's out. I'd imagine Best is the same.

From an article in the indo

He said he should know by tomorrow whether Jared Payne will be available after injuring his foot in last week's win over South Africa, but Chris Henry is facing a long spell on the sidelines after suffering a "severe migraine" on the morning of last week's match.

former legend

Quint2010 wrote: »

McCarthy over Foley after yesterday? Be very harsh call that.

I don't think it would be harsh really, McCarthy performed well yesterday too, I don't think the gap between his performance and Foley's was so wide that it's a done deal either way.

Pudsy33

This Henry thing is bizarre. First it's a virus, then a severe migraine that will keep him out for weeks? It's pretty concerning.

vienne86

Pudsy33 wrote: »

This Henry thing is bizarre. First it's a virus, then a severe migraine that will keep him out for weeks? It's pretty concerning.

I usually look for confirmation from another source when I read something in the Indo, but there is obviously something amiss - poor guy. Ireland will manage without him, but it is bad news for Ulster.

shuffol

Pudsy33 wrote: »

This Henry thing is bizarre. First it's a virus, then a severe migraine that will keep him out for weeks? It's pretty concerning.

"Long spell" would indicate months to me rather than weeks unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong though. Ulsters engine room resources been severely tested. Its been a fairly rotten season for them so far with few positives, although they're still decently placed in the league.

BoardsMember

Nialler15 wrote: »

If Darcy is fit I would love to see Payne given a run at 15. His most natural position and think he is an overall better full back than Kearney.

Can you expand on that? I don't like a lot of the fawning that goes with RK, and equally I don't see a huge amount of Payne, I'd like to know what particular areas of the game that he's shown himself to be better than Kearney.

Quint2010

Quint2010 wrote: »

McCarthy over Foley after yesterday? Be very harsh call that.

I would be surprised if Foley got the nod and I wouldn't reverse my thinking after one game. Foley is a great player and went well yesterday, eclipsed McCarthy in certain aspects of the game.

Where McCarthy is ahead in my opinion is experience with the set-up and international experience in general. He is a very powerful second row option and athletic in most aspects of play which is important if our set piece is under pressure in the second half.

I think Foley has a little bit to go and despite being one of our top three players yesterday I would be surprised if he was in the 23.

I wasn't sure when McCarthy came off is the only thing, but I think when Toner came on for Foley, one of our back rows moved into the second row as copeland came on at the same time and I didn't see any of our backrow subbed at that point.

Nialler15

Nialler15 wrote: »

If Darcy is fit I would love to see Payne given a run at 15. His most natural position and think he is an overall better full back than Kearney.

Folau is starting at 15 for the Wallabies so id imagine if it was all evens between Payne and Kearney at FB (which I don't think it is) I would still have Kearney ahead on the basis that Australia are going to be kicking a lot of ball for Folau to contest.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be surprised if Foley got the nod and I wouldn't reverse my thinking after one game. Foley is a great player and went well yesterday, eclipsed McCarthy in certain aspects of the game.

Where McCarthy is ahead in my opinion is experience with the set-up and international experience in general. He is a very powerful second row option and athletic in most aspects of play which is important if our set piece is under pressure in the second half.

I think Foley has a little bit to go and despite being one of our top three players yesterday I would be surprised if he was in the 23.

I wasn't sure when McCarthy came off is the only thing, but I think when Toner came on for Foley, one of our back rows moved into the second row as copeland came on at the same time and I didn't see any of our backrow subbed at that point.

Did Copeland not go in to the second row?

BoardsMember

I thought Copeland was impressive when he came on. I know it was at the perfect time for his type of skill-set/approach, but he looked really impressive. Great time for any of the subs to come on in fairness, beaten side, exhausted and a man down, but some good hands and linkup play.

Nialler15

BoardsMember wrote: »

Can you expand on that? I don't like a lot of the fawning that goes with RK, and equally I don't see a huge amount of Payne, I'd like to know what particular areas of the game that he's shown himself to be better than Kearney.

He is equally as good at both fielding and kicking. His defence is stronger and his attack play is streets ahead. Kearney runs with the ball in one hand and his link play needs a lot of work. Payne is the catalyst for so much of Ulsters attack play.

And its not Kearney bashing. Just my opinion.

shuffol

From some of the posts on UAFC that you'd expect to be reliable it sounds like the priority for Henry right now is his long term health.

Nialler15

Deleted User wrote: »

Folau is starting at 15 for the Wallabies so id imagine if it was all evens between Payne and Kearney at FB (which I don't think it is) I would still have Kearney ahead on the basis that Australia are going to be kicking a lot of ball for Folau to contest.

Payne is as good as Kearney in the air. I just feel Payne deserves a chance in his natural position against top class opposition. We would find out soon enough if he is good enough...which I have no doubt he is.

Sangre

How were Oz against France? Haven't caught the game yet. I thought Oz were poor enough against Wales.

shuffol

Deleted User wrote: »

I would be surprised if Foley got the nod and I wouldn't reverse my thinking after one game. Foley is a great player and went well yesterday, eclipsed McCarthy in certain aspects of the game.

Where McCarthy is ahead in my opinion is experience with the set-up and international experience in general. He is a very powerful second row option and athletic in most aspects of play which is important if our set piece is under pressure in the second half.

I think Foley has a little bit to go and despite being one of our top three players yesterday I would be surprised if he was in the 23.

I wasn't sure when McCarthy came off is the only thing, but I think when Toner came on for Foley, one of our back rows moved into the second row as copeland came on at the same time and I didn't see any of our backrow subbed at that point.

Foley being the one substituted yesterday would suggest to me that he's in pole position for the bench spot.

SaveOurLyric

Quint2010 wrote: »

McCarthy over Foley after yesterday? Be very harsh call that.

Performance in an individual game, against second rate opposition is not how Joe picks teams. Macca has been in the structure for longer, has more experience, the difference is slight/debatable anyway. Foley will be eased in in time though.

SaveOurLyric

sullivlo wrote: »

Zebo (pure lack of other options - unless Luke is parachuted in)

Joe doesnt do parachutes. Thats for the amateur coaches we had in the past.
Zebo will be give a last, for the moment anyway opportunity. If he doesnt deliver (and not just in tries, but all round game), then he will be a tackle bag holder for the 6N. At best. Trimble will be back. Fitz wll be given a chance if there is an opening - i.e an unfit Trimble - it wont be a 4th or 5th chance for Zebo. And McFadden will probably just about jump him if he doesnt do anything noteworthy this Sat.

Nialler15

Nialler15 wrote: »

Payne is as good as Kearney in the air. I just feel Payne deserves a chance in his natural position against top class opposition. We would find out soon enough if he is good enough...which I have no doubt he is.

I watch every Leinster game so I'm familiar with Kearney and personally think he is the best FB in the NH when it comes to contesting high ball, fielding and kick chasing. I would have Folau as the best in the world.

I watch probably every 2nd or 3rd Ulster game so don't know Payne as well but from what I have seen I have to disagree with you. I think his counter attack play is great but I think Ulsters back three have been more effective than Leinsters over the last season and we don't really use Kearney as a distribution channel. Kearney tends to take the ball in field into contact and we start to go wide from there.

Kearney under Schmidt was exceptional for Leinster - remember the semi-final against Clermont? Masterclass.

shuffol

shuffol wrote: »

Foley being the one substituted yesterday would suggest to me that he's in pole position for the bench spot.

Both were substituted at the same time, or within minutes of each other.

Buer

Nialler15 wrote: »

Payne is as good as Kearney in the air. I just feel Payne deserves a chance in his natural position against top class opposition. We would find out soon enough if he is good enough...which I have no doubt he is.

Ah, he's not. He's better at a number of things but fielding, positioning and kicking are areas where RK isn't touched by anyone in this country and are what gets him the jersey.

shuffol

Deleted User wrote: »

Both were substituted at the same time, or within minutes of each other.

Oops, your right. I'd still expect to see Foley get the nod.

SaveOurLyric

Swiwi. wrote: »

Repeat after me

Ireland are firm favourites
Ireland are ranked higher
Ireland are at home
Ireland just smashed South Africa

None of this plucky under-dog business please

They are a southern hemi team. We are northern. So they are better.
We cant match Aussie back creativity and skill.
We get nervous when we are favourites and crash and burn.
The expectation from the fans and press will be too much.
They can beat NZ. We cant. Therfore they are a league above us.

Still, lets give it a lash. Rip into them n the first 15 and give them a fright. Might rattle them. Show them some good old Irish fight and the Lansdowne roar. Give their stars a welcome to remember. Show them what irish rugby passion really is. Hopefully its rainy and muddy. Windy too. See how they handle our conditions. Never know, might even get score or two against them. Give them something to think about at half time. And who knows, hopefully we might hand on close enough to them coming into the last 10 minutes. See what they are made of. You never know, maybe even hang on and beat them.

SaveOurLyric

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They are a southern hemi team. We are northern. So they are better.
We cant match Aussie back creativity and skill.
We get nervous when we are favourites and crash and burn.
The expectation from the fans and press will be too much.
They can beat NZ. We cant. Therfore they are a league above us.

Still, lets give it a lash. Rip into them n the first 15 and give them a fright. Might rattle them Show them some good old Irish fight and the Lansdowne roar. Give their stars a welcome to remember. Show them what irish rugby passion really is. Hopefully its rainy and muddy. Windy too. See how they handle our conditions. Never know, might even get score or two against them. Give them something to think about at half time. And who knows, hopefully we might hand on close enough to them coming into the last 10 minutes. See what they are made of. You never know, maybe even hand on and beat them. Hopefully its rainy and muddy. Windy too. See how they handle our conditions.

If we can keep it to three points for long enough, O'Gara will have time to fly over, warm up, get his kit on and score a 79th minute drop goal to give us a plucky lead.

Will be delirium in the stands until Australia score off the restart.

its_phil

Nialler15 wrote: »

He is equally as good at both fielding and kicking.

No chance. Kearney is the best in the world for fielding, it's not even a debate.

SaveOurLyric

Deleted User wrote: »

If we can keep it to three points for long enough, O'Gara will have time to fly over, warm up, get his kit on and score a 79th minute drop goal to give us a plucky lead.

Will be delirium in the stands until Australia score off the restart.

Its OK. We'd hang on this time. Rob Saunders is retired.

sydthebeat

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

...

Still, lets give it a lash. Rip into them n the first 15 and give them a fright. Might rattle them. Show them some good old Irish fight and the Lansdowne roar. ....

is that you Deccie??

Zzippy

its_phil wrote: »

No chance. Kearney is the best in the world for fielding, it's not even a debate.

Ah now...

Mahatma Geansai

Christ, people want to hang on to McCarthy due to his greater experience. Such a negative and backward way to view squad/player development.

If posters are going to advocate going down that route, I'd hope we bring DOC in from left-field. He is significantly more experienced than both lads.

BoardsMember

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Christ, people want to hang on to McCarthy due to his greater experience. Such a negative and backward way to view squad/player development.

If posters are going to advocate going down that route, I'd hope we bring DOC in from left-field. He is significantly more experienced than both lads.

That's a little disingenuous, or silly; the opinion was expressed in the context that there is not a lot between the two players, and experience tips the balance.

SaveOurLyric

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Its OK. We'd hang on this time. Rob Saunders is retired.

Was that try Campese? It's the first tournament I can remember watching. Was gutted, After Italia 90 the year before I just thought Ireland were jinxed.

Pudsy33

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah now...

Folau comes close but that's it.

NoelJ

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Folau comes close but that's it.

I'd definitely have Falou ahead of Kearney. When we kicked to him last year he won everything.

Is Steyn still around for SA? He had an outrageous boot on him.

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah now...

I'm guessing the elipsis here is where you tried to start listing players better than him but then realised you couldn't? :pac: