Can a National school do this

p38

Received this message from the national school my children attend do you think this is fair

Message Received
As we have a nut allergy in the school children MUST NOT bring any food containing nuts or traces of nuts to school. Check packaging if you are ever unsure:eek:

My children have brought nutella on their sandwiches, cereal bars and other products which i'm sure have being in contact with traces of nut for the last 6 years am I supposed to check everything now is this fair. Where to draw the line maybe my kids are allergic to fruit have I the right to stop fruit being brought into the school.

afkasurfjunkie

Yes a national school can do this. Many do, and crèches and play schools too. They have been probably lucky enough so far that no children have had any serious allergies but now that has changed and their policies have to change.

I'd say its hard enough for a parent who has a serious nut allergy to send their child off to school without the added worry that other parents will blatantly disregard the rule so that little Johnny can have Nutella on his sambo.

DavyD_83

p38 wrote: »

Received this message from the national school my children attend do you think this is fair

Message Received
As we have a nut allergy in the school children MUST NOT bring any food containing nuts or traces of nuts to school. Check packaging if you are ever unsure:eek:

My children have brought nutella on their sandwiches, cereal bars and other products which i'm sure have being in contact with traces of nut for the last 6 years am I supposed to check everything now is this fair. Where to draw the line maybe my kids are allergic to fruit have I the right to stop fruit being brought into the school.

They're not.
And, yes if your child did have a life threatening allergy I'm sure the school would be equally accommodating in trying to avoid your kids dying while in their care.
It may be inconvenient, but surely you see that it is a genuine concern.

pancuronium

Maybe its better to understand what the issue is & try picture yourself in the other family's shoes.

Information on nut allergies & Anaphylaxis Below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis

corsav6

My daughter is type 1 diabetic and in primary school, there is no ban on sugar products in her school and we wouldn't expect the school to ban them on the grounds that 1 student can't have sugar. You cannot punish every child because 1 child has an alergy, no matter how serious it is.
The child with the alergy has to learn that he/she can't have products with nuts, simple as.

Gatling

corsav6 wrote: »

My daughter is type 1 diabetic and in primary school, there is no ban on sugar products in her school and we wouldn't expect the school to ban them on the grounds that 1 student can't have sugar. You cannot punish every child because 1 child has an alergy, no matter how serious it is.
The child with the alergy has to learn that he/she can't have products with nuts, simple as.

Big difference between been a child diabetic and a child going into anaphylactic shock due to an allergic reaction,

A reaction can be caused not just by ingesting a nut product but by touching a nut product too

paddyh117

corsav6 wrote: »

My daughter is type 1 diabetic and in primary school, there is no ban on sugar products in her school and we wouldn't expect the school to ban them on the grounds that 1 student can't have sugar. You cannot punish every child because 1 child has an alergy, no matter how serious it is.
The child with the alergy has to learn that he/she can't have products with nuts, simple as.

This is clearly not the same thing at all.

wonderboy76

corsav6 wrote: »

My daughter is type 1 diabetic and in primary school, there is no ban on sugar products in her school and we wouldn't expect the school to ban them on the grounds that 1 student can't have sugar. You cannot punish every child because 1 child has an alergy, no matter how serious it is.
The child with the alergy has to learn that he/she can't have products with nuts, simple as.

Not at all the same thing.

And your patronising "the child has to learn" shows a complete lack of both empathy and understanding for people who suffer with potentially fatal alergies.

galwayjohn89

corsav6 wrote: »

The child with the alergy has to learn that he/she can't have products with nuts, simple as.

Nut allergies can be serious enough that it can be spread through the air. Diabetes cant.

shedweller

One of my kids has a nut allergy and i would be surprised if there were a nut products ban put in place in his school. He knows himself to avoid nuts and can smell them in foods easily enough or read whats in it so he wont accidently ingest them.
I'd feel embarassed if he was the cause of a nut ban! Kids need to learn this stuff from an early age and if we remove all risks from their surroundings then what will they learn??
But thats just my opinion.

Autumn Moon

No, not "simple as" - there's a huge difference between a child being diabetic and a child having a life threatening allergy.

Big Bag of Chips

I have 2 friends with kids with nut allergies. 1 very serious, 1 less serious. The less serious lad can be around nuts he just knows not to have any himself. The other lad can become very ill by being near someone who has eaten nuts before coming into contact with him.

Children with nut allergies know well what to eat and what not to eat. My friends little lad from when he was two would refuse any food he was unsure of. No matter how tempting it looked! Trying to compare diabetes to allergies is ridiculous. A diabetic child isn't going to get sick if their friend eats a sweet. Whereas depending on the severity of the allergy, a child could very well become incredibly ill if their friend has something in their lunch box they are allergic to.

wonderboy76

shedweller wrote: »

One of my kids has a nut allergy and i would be surprised if there were a nut products ban put in place in his school. He knows himself to avoid nuts and can smell them in foods easily enough or read whats in it so he wont accidently ingest them.
I'd feel embarassed if he was the cause of a nut ban! Kids need to learn this stuff from an early age and if we remove all risks from their surroundings then what will they learn??
But thats just my opinion.

I'm all for kids learning things for themselves. I don't think they need to learn the hard way if their nut allergy is fatal, though, do you?

corsav6

So is this going to be happening in every school in the future or just where there are known students with allergies?
I wasn't aware that nuts could affect people through the air either, probably would explain the ban for all students.

wonderboy76

corsav6 wrote: »

So is this going to be happening in every school in the future or just where there are known students with allergies?
I wasn't aware that nuts could affect people through the air either, probably would explain the ban for all students.

Perhaps in larger institutions it would be harder to police, a primary school is a pretty small and easy place to institute a ban though.

ceegee

shedweller wrote: »

One of my kids has a nut allergy and i would be surprised if there were a nut products ban put in place in his school. He knows himself to avoid nuts and can smell them in foods easily enough or read whats in it so he wont accidently ingest them.
I'd feel embarassed if he was the cause of a nut ban! Kids need to learn this stuff from an early age and if we remove all risks from their surroundings then what will they learn??
But thats just my opinion.

Depends on the severity of the allergy, if you're close enough to identify that it contains nuts without any ill effects then it is not at the most severe end of the spectrum.
some people will go into anaphylaxis because the person beside them opens a bag of nuts

looksee

As various people have said, it is not as simple as not eating nuts. I have a grandchild with a significant dairy allergy, she is very well trained not to eat things that might have dairy products in them, but being near someone drinking milk is not going to put her into shock. There was a situation recently I think (?) where a child on a plane was affected by nuts being eaten in a nearby seat. Smelling them, or less, is all it takes in some cases.

DoctorEdgeWild

The important point to understand is just how severe SOME nut allergies can be.

It's not a case of rash/ill/spots, there are some (luckily very few) who have truly fatal consequences when they come into contact (kids get food bloody everywhere and on every toy as you know) with nut products.

Must be a terrible worry for parents. Really scary.

wonderboy76

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

The important point to understand is just how severe SOME nut allergies can be.

It's not a case of rash/ill/spots, there are some (luckily very few) who have truly fatal consequences when they come into contact (kids get food bloody everywhere and on every toy as you know) with nut products.

Must be a terrible worry for parents. Really scary.

This is a good point. Not all allergies work the same way and they don't all affect people in the same way.

Chip Whitley

My daughter is in a primary school where there is a ban on nuts because of a child in her class. I'm very proud of the fact that she checks labels before bringing anything to school, really shows she cares for a fellow pupil. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

The child in question only has to breathe around nuts and he will have some sort of reaction, it must be an awful thing for his parents to worry about.

Big Bag of Chips

As mentioned, it can only be seen as a good thing to educate the other kids about allergies. Lunch in school is really only a snack. If they really need Nutella or cereal bars etc they can be eaten at home. My friend with the child with the severe allergy can not praise his friends enough. She says they are always conscious of his allergy. If he's ever staying at a friend's house they go out of their way to get in suitable treats for him, which they eat themselves around him. They know not to eat anything that might have nuts before coming over to play with him etc.

And you know what... It has had no adverse reaction on any of the kids! None of them are missing out on anything. Checking packaging for traces of nuts in lunch products might be a slight inconvenience to parents who don't have to live with it every day. Imagine what it must be like for parents who have to do it for every meal, every day.

neemish

Had a friend who died from anaphylaxis in his twenties from an egg... yes, an egg! (it was included as a part of a recipe in a restaurant)

As a child, if someone brought egg sandwiches to school, his eyes would stream and he would find it hard to breathe. Sometimes had to leave school for the day. He was the same with bananas of all things. His allergy eventually killed him...my point is: checking products for nuts is a lot less traumatic than seeing a school friend die.

MrStuffins

Just can't get over the complete lack of empathy in the OP tbh!

byhookorbycrook

OP, you obviously know nothing about nut allegies. A child I know can go into arrest in 4 minutes and die. What say you think about others and cop on a bit?
And yes, schools can.

miamee

My friend's child has a severe allergy to nuts and when she entered primary school, they put a ban on nuts and nut products as there was herself and another little girl in the same year with a similarly severe allergy. The headmaster has since decided to make it a nut-free environment in school for all classes as there are varying degrees of severity and it is becoming more and more common. I think this shows a proactive headmaster and a caring environment where other pupils are taught to take care of other people's needs as well as their own.

Before anyone bemoans the poor children who cannot bring nutella or peanut butter sandwiches to school, my friends little girl cannot leave the house without an Epi-pen. This is to be administered to her in the event of a severe reaction/going into anaphylactic shock. She knows how to administer it to herself as well. She is 5. This is not just watery eyes or a rash, she literally would not be able to breathe in the event she came into contact with some nuts.

dilallio

In fairness, the effects of a serious nut allergy is not known to a lot of people.

It would have been helpful in this case if the school had put a bit more information or a link in the text message, or even a fact sheet sent home with each student, so that each parent would understand the seriousness of the allergy.

Son of Jack

A child in my daughter's class had a severe allergy to nuts and fish. Parents were asked not to send either in with lunches. This almost all except one parent complied with willingly. It was after all a matter of life or death. This parent kept sending in tuna sandwiches and peanut butter ones.

Information went home on paper to all parents. It was explained that if the child with the allergy came into contact with even a trace of nuts or fish on a child's hand, desk, a door knob that the results could be lethal for the child. Even the 'whiff' of either in the air was a threat to the child and yet the parent kept on sending in these lunches.

She said not being able to do so, greatly limited her options with regard to what her child could have for lunch because there wasn't a lot he liked to eat and that it was her entitlement and her child's right to have this food in his lunch. In effect she was put one's own child's food preferences ahead of another child's health.

Time and time again I have seen posts on parenting discussion boards where parents take issue with nuts being banned. But generally once the dangers of them to the child are explained, they seem to come round.

Of course if it was their child had the allergy you could be sure, they would be looking for all potential allergens within a twenty kilometre radius to be banned with the severest of penalties to those who didn't comply.

With so many sad misadventures reported where people did lose their lives on account of nuts eaten by mistake, I think there are few enough parents who would not know that children can be allergic to nuts and that this allergy can be life threatening.

It must be a great worry for parents whose children have severe allergies to something as commonly available as nut...and parenting is worrying enough at the best of times!

Son of Jack

Son of Jack wrote: »

She said not being able to do so, greatly limited her options with regard to what her child could have for lunch because there wasn't a lot he liked to eat and that it was her entitlement and her child's right to have this food in his lunch. In effect she was put one's own child's food preferences ahead of another child's health.

Jesus. was she told to cop on or was anything done?

dirkmeister

p38 wrote: »

Received this message from the national school my children attend do you think this is fair

Message Received
As we have a nut allergy in the school children MUST NOT bring any food containing nuts or traces of nuts to school. Check packaging if you are ever unsure:eek:

My children have brought nutella on their sandwiches, cereal bars and other products which i'm sure have being in contact with traces of nut for the last 6 years am I supposed to check everything now is this fair. Where to draw the line maybe my kids are allergic to fruit have I the right to stop fruit being brought into the school.

I'm gobsmacked with the total lack of understanding and empathy being shown here.

Are you seriously suggesting that taking a few seconds to check a label is more important than a child's health?

Son of Jack

bluewolf wrote: »

Jesus. was she told to cop on or was anything done?

In the end the boy with the peanut butter/tuna sandwiches used have his lunch at a table out at the end of the corridor and was supervised washing his hands afterwards.

p38

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

dirkmeister

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

Hang on now, your children aren't "suffering" because they can't have a Nutella sandwich.

Why should one child be put in danger needlessly?!?

Any school I've ever heard of banning nut items does it for very good reasons.

As it happens, our school has "banned" unhealthy lunches. While most kids bring in the best of food, it still doesn't stop a number of children bringing in rubbish though.

Tasden

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

You're child isn't suffering due to a lack of some tasty spread on their bread.
A child with a nut allergy could actually suffer- experience the terror of suffocating, an itchy/painful rash, whatever other symptoms that the child will suffer. Die even, in some cases and you're talking about you're child "suffering".

I thought nuts were automatically banned in all schools tbh. Never questioned it.

Bored Capri

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

To help children with severe allergies we, as a community need to help them. With time, the children will learn to avoid foods, read labels etc but in the meantime it is our responsibility to make sure their environment is safe.

The big issue for allergy kids is cross contamination. A child with a nut allergy will not knowingly eat Nutella, however, a child in the classroom may eat it, get it on his hands, handle toys, pens etc, the child with allergies may then handle the same items and perhaps put his fingers in his mouth which may lead to anaphylaxis, a tiny amount can do this. It can kill in minutes.

Small children are not good at hand washing and very good at putting things in their mouths so potentially this is a disaster waiting to happen.

JPA

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

If a child dies how much suffering will there be?

allym

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

How is your child not getting Nutella even comparable to a child possibly dying??? Not getting to eat something you like is not "suffering". Someone dying is.

p38

Tasden wrote: »

You're child isn't suffering due to a lack of some tasty spread on their bread.
A child with a nut allergy could actually suffer- experience the terror of suffocating, an itchy/painful rash, whatever other symptoms that the child will suffer. Die even, in some cases and you're talking about you're child "suffering".

I thought nuts were automatically banned in all schools tbh. Never questioned it.

Ok suffer may have been the wrong word to use but lets take another example Mary or johnny is allergic to the chlorine in the swimming pool water school says no children can go swimming or teacher has planned to take the whole class on a nature walk through the hazel wood but Mary or johnny is allergic to nuts so nobody goes where is the fairness

Big Bag of Chips

p38 wrote: »

I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be....

Clearly you're not.

Where does it stop? Probably where something isn't likely to cause a child to suffocate.

You said earlier, "maybe my children are allergic to fruit"... Well are they? Have they been tested? I can guarantee you anybody who has a nut allergy there's no "maybe" about it. They've find out the terrifying way.

If your child was severely allergic to bananas, would you just send him off to school and tell him you'll all hope for the best, or would you try to take every step possible to make sure the school didn't have to ring you one day with terrible news, that could easily be avoided?

allym

You say you understand how serious nut allergies can be, but you obviously don't. A school would not take the action of banning nuts, unless the child is question has a serious allergy. How would you feel if it was your child? Would you want them to literally take their life in their hands going into school every day, because some other parent wants their child to have nut products?

Insect Overlord

p38 wrote: »

Ok suffer may have been the wrong word to use but lets take another example Mary or johnny is allergic to the chlorine in the swimming pool water school says no children can go swimming or teacher has planned to take the whole class on a nature walk through the hazel wood but Mary or johnny is allergic to nuts so nobody goes where is the fairness

Those are totally different scenarios. A child can be excused from swimming. I've seen it in the last 2 weeks where 3 boys in a class were able to stay behind and do some other exercises while the rest of 2nd class went to the pool.

angeldelight

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

You can't be serious? It's not about feeling sorry for the parents of the child, it's about keeping the child alive! If you're educated about it but decide to ignore it and send in Nutella sandwiches anyway you are quite simply endangering that child's life. Of course it be banned!

bee06

p38 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies I am aware how serious allergies of any kind can be and do feel sorry for parents that have children that suffer from allergies, but I still can't see why the majority have to suffer because of one or two. By all means the children and us as parents should be educated on how serious allergies can be but banning an item. Where does it stop.

Do you seriously not understand that it's possible for people to die just from breathing near nuts? What is the parent supposed to do, put the child in a plastic bubble so it's more convenient for you? And this is not just something that happens in primary schools, we have a ban on nuts because someone has a serious nut allergy in my workplace.

eviltwin

I think you are over reacting OP. The school has a duty of care to its pupils. My son loves peanut based foods too and is a fussy eater so its hard to find things that he can bring that he will actually eat but my inconvenience is nothing compared to the worry of a parent whose child has an allergy. If something serious happened to a child in the school I would never forgive myself. Its been explained to you why its so serious but you still don't seem to get it. Or you're just being really selfish. I can't understand that.

p38

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Clearly you're not.

Where does it stop? Probably where something isn't likely to cause a child to suffocate.

You said earlier, "maybe my children are allergic to fruit"... Well are they? Have they been tested? I can guarantee you anybody who has a nut allergy there's no "maybe" about it. They've find out the terrifying way.

If your child was severely allergic to bananas, would you just send him of to school and tell him you'll all hope for the best, or would you try to take every step possible to make sure the school didn't have to ring you one day with terrible news, that could easily be avoided?

I certainly wouldn't expect the school to stop other children from eating what they like I would hope i could educate my child about his her allergy

mosstin

p38 wrote: »

Ok suffer may have been the wrong word to use but lets take another example Mary or johnny is allergic to the chlorine in the swimming pool water school says no children can go swimming or teacher has planned to take the whole class on a nature walk through the hazel wood but Mary or johnny is allergic to nuts so nobody goes where is the fairness

Seriously, I'm genuinely beginning to wonder - are you the parent or the child? Your posts suggest the latter.

p38

p38 wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't expect the school to stop other children from eating what they like I would hope i could educate my child about his her allergy

For god's sake educating your child does nothing when their friend who ate nuts stands anywhere near them. It's not just about eating, it can happen from proximity.

angeldelight

p38 wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't expect the school to stop other children from eating what they like I would hope i could educate my child about his her allergy

the child with the nut allergy knows not to eat nuts - they are educated. However the allergy could be bad enough to cause them to die purely from inhaling a tiny remnant of peanut from another child's breath. What do you suggest the child with the allergy do in this case?

Big Bag of Chips

... By the way, my children have never been brought on a nature walk through the woods, and I don't think they are missing out or suffering. I don't know much about chlorine allergy, but maybe Mary or Johnny just wouldn't be able to go swimming, but the others could?

Your arguments are becoming ridiculous to try to justify an unjustifiable point. Would you rather your child be allowed Nutella sandwiches, but might have to witness an ambulance coming to the school to bring away a suffocating/unconscious child instead?

It's an inconvenience for you. It's a risk of death for someone else.

angeldelight

angeldelight wrote: »

the child with the nut allergy knows not to eat nuts - they are educated. However the allergy could be bad enough to cause them to die purely from inhaling a tiny remnant of peanut from another child's breath. What do you suggest the child with the allergy do in this case?

They can die happy knowing it was worth it so little johnny could have his nutella

Big Bag of Chips

p38 wrote: »

I would hope i could educate my child about his her allergy

You'd need to educate yourself on it first. You're just not getting it.

Tasden

p38 wrote: »

Ok suffer may have been the wrong word to use but lets take another example Mary or johnny is allergic to the chlorine in the swimming pool water school says no children can go swimming or teacher has planned to take the whole class on a nature walk through the hazel wood but Mary or johnny is allergic to nuts so nobody goes where is the fairness

Is the chlorine 100% avoidable for the child allergic to it? Yes. So the one child sits out.

Are the nuts 100% for the child allergic to them? Yes. If nobody brings them into class. If a person brings them in there is no guarantee that the child allergic to the nuts will be able to avoid them to the extent needed to prevent a reaction.