Advice on leasing commercial (restaurant) units in Dublin city centre

scr6

Hi there ladies and gents,

This is my first time posting in Boards.ie but I’ve been using it as a quality resource for quite a few years and find it very useful.

Basically I’m looking for a bit of first hand advice from those of you with a bit of specific knowledge of the commercial letting market in Dublin.

I’ve moved back to Ireland in the last couple weeks after some years abroad with the intention of setting up my own business. I’ve been working on it over the last 18 months and there is a market for it after doing a big chunk of market research, I just have to make it a reality. Currently doing Start Your Own Business and Start Your Own Food Business courses with the LEO here in Limerick. The business is in the food service sector so I’m looking for a restaurant/cafe type unit.

Looking to be up and running by February 2015. I’m at the business plan stage and have funds already. Im looking for a space with seating capacity of at least 30-40 pax with good footfall plus a small office and I've put EUR 40,000 in my initial costings for rent (wishful naivety?)

This would be my first time setting up my own business so please excuse my ignorance on certain matters - thats why I’m come to you guys for some advice.

- Can anyone give some information on the types of units that are currently available for use as a restaurant/cafe (daytime) in Dublin city centre (D2- creative quarter: South William Street and environs). Are these units becoming available or do they exist anymore since things have picked up?

- How much would I expect to pay in terms of rent in this part of the city for a unit of this type and size?

- What is the norm regarding making alterations to a leased unit? As in how far can you go to make the unit fit for your own purpose internally? Would I be liable for the full cost of these works or are landlords known for helping out in this regard?

- Are landlords likely to entertain a proposal from a young startup entrepreneur or will they only look at bigger (multi)national chains?

- I’ve read in another similar post from a few years ago about rent free period built into the lease of a cafe unit. Is this still the case?

- Are rates a flat fee and how much can I expect to pay in this type of unit per year?

Thanks a million in advance for reading and looking forward to hearing some great advice!

Shane

jimmii

Not much in D2 right now

http://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/commercial-property/dublin-2/?s%5Bpt_id%5D%5B0%5D=7&s%5Bsub_pt_id%5D=1

Unless you are looking to squeeze those 30 people in very tightly €40k would definitely be too low you may need to look further afield.

The rest of your questions are going to be Landlord dependent and also keep in mind there are listed buildings in that area where you won't be able to make certain changes too. You could try your luck with a rent free period but I am guessing that right now you are going to need to get pretty lucky to find a Landlord willing to do that unless you are willing to sign up for double digit years which would probably not be a good idea you might find they are willing to wait until you open before you start paying that would be a fair compromise. Rates vary so again best to find a property you like and contact them. Some Landlords might be waiting for Starbucks to come take the unit but others are going to be more than happy for a start-up to come in as long as the terms are right for them.

PS welcome to the world boards posters!!

scr6

Thanks for getting back to me jimmii!

Your response was what I was afraid of. That area is really buzzing at the moment. I have a few months before I'll be ready to kick off so I'm praying a few spots will open up and I'll be all set to go.

If that is the area that I really want to be in, by how much do you think I would need to be willing to pay rent wise? Or, how big a unit would I need to be looking at to fit 30-40 pax comfortably? A sit down element is key so a small grab and go spot wouldn't really work with the concept.

I was thinking of touching base with a few letting agents/estate agents and telling them what I'm looking for so on the off chance something comes up that fits the criteria they can get in contact with me - is this common practise in Dublin? I presume they wouldn't scoff at me for trying at least

Also, I know there will be big compromises in this game but for the moment it can't hurt to be a little idealistic and see how far we get :-D

Del2005

Not wanting to be sound bad, but if you don't know how big a space is required to sit 30 to 40 people have you done enough research?

jimmii

I originally wanted to set up in D2 too but ended up in D1. I would imagine check regularly enough and you will find poor units there for about €50k and double or tripple for the really great locations.

Depending on your target market and price point you would need 14-20sqft of dinning area per person the higher your prices the more space you want really! Your max number is likely to be determined by a fire inspection.

Definitely leave your details with agents I would imagine the good quality places don't even touch the market so to get the best you'll need to get in quickly.

scr6

Del2005 wrote: »

Not wanting to be sound bad, but if you don't know how big a space is required to sit 30 to 40 people have you done enough research?

Hi Del2005, no need to worry about sounding bad. As I said I need some honesty and people with real experience to give me some advice at this point. You're right and I walked right into that one. I know that I can seat 30-40 people in a 350-400 sq. ft space. What I don't know is how much space kitchens and other ancillary accommodation would take up

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Shane

scr6

jimmii wrote: »

I originally wanted to set up in D2 too but ended up in D1. I would imagine check regularly enough and you will find poor units there for about €50k and double or tripple for the really great locations.

Depending on your target market and price point you would need 14-20sqft of dinning area per person the higher your prices the more space you want really! Your max number is likely to be determined by a fire inspection.

Definitely leave your details with agents I would imagine the good quality places don't even touch the market so to get the best you'll need to get in quickly.

So I'm looking at much bigger space than I thought! Thanks for clearing that one up for me jimmii.

jimmii

scr6 wrote: »

Hi Del2005, no need to worry about sounding bad. As I said I need some honesty and people with real experience to give me some advice at this point. You're right and I walked right into that one. I know that I can seat 30-40 people in a 350-400 sq. ft space. What I don't know is how much space kitchens and other ancillary accommodation would take up

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Shane

30-40 people in that sort of space would definitely be on the tight side thats the sort of space cafes and fast places would squeeze that number in.

jimmii

scr6 wrote: »

So I'm looking at much bigger space than I thought! Thanks for clearing that one up for me jimmii.

Its really up to you how comfortable you want your customers to be! There is nothing worse than a restaurant squeezing too many people in and you banging your chairs off other peoples or having to squeeze by someone to get to a window seat etc.

scr6

jimmii wrote: »

30-40 people in that sort of space would definitely be on the tight side thats the sort of space cafes and fast places would squeeze that number in.

The concept is fast casual though, not high end or sit down dinners but at the same time I would never want people to be squeezed in like sardines. I wouldn't go to a place like that myself so why would my own place be special? :-D

jimmii

scr6 wrote: »

The concept is fast casual though, not high end or sit down dinners but at the same time I would never want people to be squeezed in like sardines. I wouldn't go to a place like that myself so why would my own place be special? :-D

600-650 sqft of dinning space should be enough then probably add about 200sqft for kitchen, storage, staff area and office etc.