Top 50 influential Irish Rugby players

Buer

So the IT are publishing their list of the top 50 rugby players in Ireland currently. It appears it's done on the basis of how the players are perceived at this moment in time. The list determines itself to be "not the best 50 but the 50 that currently have the greatest influence".

Today they've published 50-41. In that order, they've gone with:

Conan, Jackson, Reid, Gilroy, McCarthy, Copeland, Gopperth, Diack, Boss, McFadden.

If they're talking about those with the greatest influence, I find it somewhat bizarre they'd have Jackson and Gopperth that low.

.ak

And McFadden

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

So the IT are publishing their list of the top 50 rugby players in Ireland currently. It appears it's done on the basis of how the players are perceived at this moment in time. The list determines itself to be "not the best 50 but the 50 that currently have the greatest influence".

Today they've published 50-41. In that order, they've gone with:

Conan, Jackson, Reid, Gilroy, McCarthy, Copeland, Gopperth, Diack, Boss, McFadden.

If they're talking about those with the greatest influence, I find it somewhat bizarre they'd have Jackson and Gopperth that low.

This forum will explode if we try to participate, so I think it's best if everyone keeps their opinions to themselves...
























LOL Reid is better than Paddy Jackson!!

Pudsy33

Not better, more influential......apparently.

Eat My Point

Do they mean influence the players have on a game or their influence/standing in the game?

shuffol

Perhaps it's greatest influence with the Irish Times. Which might explain why some are where they are.

errlloyd

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Not better, more influential......apparently.

Surely influential and better are the same thing.... Otherwise the most influential potentially Irish qualified player in the world would probably be ME, because playing me at inside centre is almost certainly going to influence the game, just not very well....

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

And McFadden

Why? He's one of 'x' wingers why would he be higher?

.ak

For me McFadden is in the irish 23 when all fit and firing. So he'd certainly be higher than 40.

awec

The IT having Jackson so low is just pandering to their readership. They know Ulster fans don't read it anyway.

The top 10 will be all Leinster and Munster. If the Belfast Telegraph did the same there'd be loads of over rated Ulster players.

Clearlier

.ak wrote: »

For me McFadden is in the irish 23 when all fit and firing. So he'd certainly be higher than 40.

I'm a big admirer of how much he gets out of himself but for me he's not a starter for Leinster and hardly certain to be in the Irish 23 (Earls, Fitzgerald and Madigan all offer a utility back option) when all are fit and well so I think that his influence in playing terms is relatively low.

By influence I presume that author was thinking of positive influence. The justification for the decisions seems relatively threadbare and I'm a bit bemused by the publication of it in tranches. I understand the need to gain attention etc. but the next time I see myself looking at this is when all 50 have been printed. Then again the fact that I'm writing this might provide evidence for their approach.



wonder if Duncan Casey will be in

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

The IT having Jackson so low is just pandering to their readership. They know Ulster fans don't read it anyway.

The top 10 will be all Leinster and Munster. If the Belfast Telegraph did the same there'd be loads of over rated Ulster players.

I'd hope Best and Bowe are top 10.

awec

errlloyd wrote: »

I'd hope Best and Bowe are top 10.

Sexton
POC
D'Arcy
POM
Heaslip
Murray
Madigan (Leinster golden boy)
Zebo (Munster golden boy)
Kearney
Henshaw (Connacht appeasement)


In that order :pac:

molloyjh

McFadden may not be in the top 2 wingers in Leinster or the top 3 or 4 wingers in Ireland. But he is without doubt far higher than 40th in the country. He's been pretty bloody good for Ireland every time he's played. Remember last season against Australia he made something like 5 line breaks in a single game. That's pretty bloody good at that level.

jacothelad

awec wrote: »

The IT having Jackson so low is just pandering to their readership. They know Ulster fans don't read it anyway.

The top 10 will be all Leinster and Munster. If the Belfast Telegraph did the same there'd be loads of over rated Ulster players.

The difference there of course is that the Bellylaugh would be right.:D:D

molloyjh

My top 10 would be (in no particular order):

Healy
Best
Ross
POC
Heaslip
SOB
Murray
Sexton
R Kearney
Bowe

POM would be pretty close, McGrath is climbing the ranks pretty quickly and Toner is knocking on the door too.

errlloyd

molloyjh wrote: »

My top 10 would be (in no particular order):

Healy
Best
Ross
POC
Heaslip
SOB
Murray
Sexton
R Kearney
Bowe

POM would be pretty close, McGrath is climbing the ranks pretty quickly and Toner is knocking on the door too.

I think POM is probably more influential than Ross. In terms of their definition of influence

sydthebeat

10 R Kearney
9 Bowe
8 Toner
7 Ross
6 Healy
5 SOB
4 Heaslip
3 Murray
2 POC
1 Sexton

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

I think POM is probably more influential than Ross. In terms of their definition of influence

I wouldn't agree I'm afraid. The difference between Ross being there and not shows his influence. It may not be as much across the park (it def isn't) but in terms of the overall influence on the game I'd have Ross higher.

molloyjh

sydthebeat wrote: »

10 R Kearney
9 Bowe
8 Toner
7 Ross
6 Healy
5 SOB
4 Heaslip
3 Murray
2 POC
1 Sexton

Toner over Best?

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

McFadden may not be in the top 2 wingers in Leinster or the top 3 or 4 wingers in Ireland. But he is without doubt far higher than 40th in the country. He's been pretty bloody good for Ireland every time he's played. Remember last season against Australia he made something like 5 line breaks in a single game. That's pretty bloody good at that level.

As I said, it's taken on their current situations. The piece with McFadden says he'd be in the top 20 if he was fit.

vienne86

I think it's virtually impossible to rate players like this against each other when they have such different roles in the game.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

As I said, it's taken on their current situations. The piece with McFadden says he'd be in the top 20 if he was fit.

That makes sense so, although it probably makes it even more pointless as well.

vienne86

molloyjh wrote: »

That makes sense so, although it probably makes it even more pointless as well.

I think it's a bit pointless too......I suppose they have to do something to sell papers though.

Buer

vienne86 wrote: »

I think it's virtually impossible to rate players like this against each other when they have such different roles in the game.

Indeed. It's like rating the mods against one another.

I mean, who could possibly choose the best moderator? Is it .ak or awec?

The correct answer is Zzippy

.ak

Personally I'd prefer a Top 50 haircuts in Irish rugby article.

Eat My Point

I'm not sure we'd manage 50 good haircuts

awec

Duncan Williams definitely #1 in the Worlds Worst Rugby Haircuts list anyway.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Duncan Williams definitely #1 in the Worlds Worst Rugby Haircuts list anyway.

awec

Nope, Duncan Williams still wins.

Eat My Point

.ak

I think Madigan could win both Best & Worst.

Impressive form.

Eat My Point

Denis Hickie's was pretty dodgy for a while before he wisely gave up and just shaved the head

.ak

Can anyone find that Madigan hair pic from UAFC a while back?

Clearlier

Given the time of year perhaps a facial hair one would be a better option. Any doubts about who has the no.1 spot?

Fireball07

Surely if Gopperth is included, then Sexton won't be. As he's not in Ireland?

Clearlier

Fireball07 wrote: »

Surely if Gopperth is included, then Sexton won't be. As he's not in Ireland?

All Irish players are included + all players playing in Ireland. Sexton is the only person playing outside of Ireland that is included though.

former legend

awec wrote: »

The IT having Jackson so low is just pandering to their readership. They know Ulster fans don't read it anyway.

Maybe they figure that Ulster look completely rudderless without Pienaar and therefore their out half can't be that influential.

former legend

vienne86 wrote: »

I think it's a bit pointless too......I suppose they have to do something to sell papers though.

It's not in the print version. It's clickbait maybe.

Agree it's pointless though.

awec

former legend wrote: »

Maybe they figure that Ulster look completely rudderless without Pienaar and therefore their out half can't be that influential.

Is the list based on current form?

former legend

awec wrote: »

Is the list based on current form?

See below. If Pienaar is very high, as I suspect he will be, then it somewhat supports my theory.

Now, some ground rules. It’s not necessarily the best 50 players but the top 50 on current form and impact. Or, in the case of a few injured men, how much their presence is felt by their enforced absence.

I don't agree Jackson should be so low btw, but I don't think it's just anti-Ulster bias.

Swiwi.

Sorry but I think these things are silly. Completely subjective and designed to sell newspapers. 50 greatest players of all time would be more interesting. Otherwise you're basically excluding a few fringe players and ranking the province starting XVs from 1 to 50.

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

Completely subjective and designed to sell newspapers.

See three posts up.

Swiwi.

former legend wrote: »

See three posts up.

Newspapers including online versions...

Neil3030

Shameless click-bait by the IT.

They are one step away from headlines like, "What happens next in this list of 50 players will leave you speechless...."

molloyjh

Neil3030 wrote: »

Shameless click-bait by the IT.

They are one step away from headlines like, "What happens next in this list of 50 players will leave you speechless...."

Oh, oh, what? Tell me.... :pac:

former legend

The worst thing about this is not the list but the fact that so few posters seem to have bothered actually reading it.

These lists are always designed to be controversial. I wouldn't read into it too much

bilston

Total clickbait and quite funny actually as well as arguably a waste of time and I think Cummisky is usually pretty good

Still can any Leinsterite hand on heart tell me that Noel Reid is more influential to Irish rugby than Paddy Jackson? I bet FL will give it a good stab;)

Hagz

bilston wrote: »

Still can any Leinsterite hand on heart tell me that Noel Reid is more influential to Irish rugby than Paddy Jackson? I bet FL will give it a good stab;)

Is not more influential to their respective provinces rather than Irish rugby.

former legend

bilston wrote: »

Still can any Leinsterite hand on heart tell me that Noel Reid is more influential to Irish rugby than Paddy Jackson? I bet FL will give it a good stab;)

No, no more than any Ulsterite would say that Diack is more influential than Gopperth. I don't see too many Leinster fans getting worked up over that though.

My point is that
a. There is no evidence of anti Ulster bias.
b. It's online so not selling any papers.
c. They freely acknowledge that it's bound to cause controversy.