IRB Player of the Year: Ireland's turn?

George Hook

IRB player of the year is awarded at the end of every year and based on who performed the most consistently during all the international matches of that calender year. There is usually a short list of players up for the award and since there are only two more international matches left this year for Ireland, I thought it might be time to get the ball rolling.

We won our 2 June matches in Argentina.
We won the 6 nations.
And at this point we should at least finish with 2/3 for the Autumn Internationals.

I'd say if we beat Australia we have a good chance of winning team of the year. But, here is a list of people who could be on the short list for IRB player of the year:

Conor Murray
Jonathan Sexton
Paul O'Connell
Jamie Heaslip
Peter O'Mahony

Other contenders from other nations:

Duane Vermeulen (RSA) - Could be the winner
Richie McCaw (NZ) - Scored a lot of tires this season and has been consistant
Julian Savea (NZ) - same as above really
Ben Smith (NZ) - started well this year
AAron Smith (NZ) - has been consistent
Broadie Retallick (NZ) - has been in great for all year.
Tevita Kuridrani (Aus) - Has been playing very well this year
Israel Folau (Aus) - I think his form has dipped slightly since the start of the year
Mike Brown (eng) - Started the 6N well


I think we could get one of our players short listed but I'd be hopeful that we might actually win it this year. Anyone have anymore suggests for the short list?

George Hook

Here is the blurb from the IRB:

The IRB Player of the Year is determined using the following criteria:

The IRB Awards panel votes on all international Test matches throughout the year using a points system i.e 3 points for best player of the match, 2 points for second best player of the match and 1 point for third best player of the match.



These votes, and a discussion amongst the IRB Awards panel to consider aspects such as form, appearances and opposition, form the basis in determining a shortlist of nominees which is announced prior to the end of the Autumn Internationals in November.


Once the nominees are announced the public is invited to give their opinion on social media as to who they believe should win the IRB Player of the Year Award. Select international media are also invited to vote.


Taking into account votes, and input from media and fans, the final winner of the prestigious IRB Player of the Year Award is determined by the IRB Awards panel at the end of the November test window.

.ak

Vermeulen for me. Beast.

Buuut... I'd have no issue if someone from either the 6n or RC winning side to took the trophy.

Tox56

Vermuelen should win. But sexton deserves a nomination

George Hook

.ak wrote: »

Vermeulen for me. Beast.

Buuut... I'd have no issue if someone from either the 6n or RC winning side to took the trophy.

Yeah, I think he is highly likely to win it this year. Need to track down a list of MOTM winners for all the internationals this year. The Ultimate rugby app doesn't give them for most of the matches.

Buer

The award is based on a panel of judges awarding points to the 3 best players on the field in a test. All others get zero (at least that's the way it has always been done). With that in mind, if someone missed out on games, they're at a disadvantage. You'll need to have probably won a MOTM award or two to get a nomination.

As such, the awards to Irish players this season have been: Sexton twice, Heaslip, BOD twice, Ruddock and POM.

Someone like POM didn't play against Italy or tour in the summer which makes him almost definitely out of the equation. POC, Heaslip and Murray all missed out on at least one game. BOD isn't in the mix.

Lets be honest, Sexton is a very likely nominee but I'd be surprised if anyone else gets the nod.

.ak

Would be gas is BOD got it.

.ak

Also what game did Ruddock get MoTM?

George Hook

.ak wrote: »

Also what game did Ruddock get MoTM?

I think the 2nd Argentina game.

sydthebeat

Vermullen looks to be a front runner

Folau over the year both at club and country has been magnificant.

and i think POC should get a nomination.

Buer

George Hook wrote: »

Yeah, I think he is highly likely to win it this year. Need to track down a list of MOTM winners for all the internationals this year. The Ultimate rugby app doesn't give them for most of the matches.

Retallick and Vermuelen both won two MOTM awards in the RC.

NZ will play about 14 internationals this season though compared to Ireland's 10.

.ak

Oh yeah. I remember Diack and Ruddock being the only good things going on that tour.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Also what game did Ruddock get MoTM?

Scotland - Heaslip
Wales - POM
Italy - BOD
France - BOD
Arg - Sexton
Arg - Ruddock
SA - Sexton

It's actually odd that Sexton didn't win any in the 6N but you can be pretty sure that he was in the top 3 players for the Scotland, Wales and France games.

I'd say Retallick, Vermeulen, Sexton and Mike Brown are all shoe ins for the nomination, I reckon.

Brown would have been a strong contender to win the overall award by the summer but his form has dropped off a cliff this season, relatively speaking.

George Hook

Buer wrote: »

Retallick and Vermuelen both won two MOTM awards in the RC.

NZ will play about 14 internationals this season though compared to Ireland's 10.

That's totally correct, it's weighted in NZ's favour since they've played more matches than us this year - or most years probably.

Whitelock was another one I thought about adding to the list, but I couldn't get any MOTM stats for him - I just remember he had performed well this year. Retallick should be on the list as you righly pointed out. I thought he has missed some matches this year but it appears he's only missed one.

Did Chris Robshaw for Eng get any MOTMs this year, maybe whilst never top in any one match he has been consistent.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Would be gas is BOD got it.

Would be a bit sentimental but maybe just after 2009 (though McCaw was not undeserving that year either).

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

Scotland - Heaslip
Wales - POM
Italy - BOD
France - BOD
Arg - Sexton
Arg - Ruddock
SA - Sexton

It's actually odd that Sexton didn't win any in the 6N but you can be pretty sure that he was in the top 3 players for the Scotland, Wales and France games.

I'd say Retallick, Vermeulen, Sexton and Mike Brown are all shoe ins for the nomination, I reckon.

Brown would have been a strong contender to win the overall award by the summer but his form has dropped off a cliff this season, relatively speaking.

Sexton was the real MOTM in the French game at least and even in the Italy match should probably have got it ahead of BOD

19543261

.ak wrote: »

Would be gas is BOD got it.

Would be laughable.

Buer

George Hook wrote: »

Did Chris Robshaw for Eng get any MOTMs this year, maybe whilst never top in any one match he has been consistent.

None for Robshaw that I'm aware of. Definitely not in the 6N. Mike Brown won 3 MOTM awards and player of the tournament. He has to be on the list, even allowing for his drop in form. Owen Farrell and Freddie Michalak both gained nominations previously on the basis of 2 or 3 MOTM awards despite doing nothing else that year (Michalak wasn't even in the French team for the 6N that year).

There's usually a nomination for one of the non-superpowers such as Blair, Parisse, Lobbe etc. Someone like Campagnero could be a dark horse.

Could be an Australian player too. Don't rule out someone a little left field like Bernard Foley. He has a couple of MOTM awards to his name also. His iconic performance in the S15 final puts him at the front of minds when people are awarding points.

George Hook

19543261 wrote: »

Would be laughable.

Well it's all down to the judges opinions when they are scoring all the players.

BOD played 5 games this year, with two MOTMs so the absolute max amount of points he can get is 12, though is more likely something like 8.
Whereas Brodie Retallick got 2 MOTMs and played 11 matches so far with maybe two to go. So he could be on something like 14.

There's actually a lot of room for overlaps and because it's all based on opinion BOD could well end up making the short list. haha - but I'd be confident he won't.

gally74

George Hook wrote: »

Well it's all down to the judges opinions when they are scoring all the players.

BOD played 5 games this year, with two MOTMs so the absolute max amount of points he can get is 12, though is more likely something like 8.
Whereas Brodie Retallick got 2 MOTMs and played 11 matches so far with maybe two to go. So he could be on something like 14.

There's actually a lot of room for overlaps and because it's all based on opinion BOD could well end up making the short list. haha - but I'd be confident he won't.

Paul o connell

Buer

gally74 wrote: »

Paul o connell

Shouldn't really but history has shown that the name alone gets a lot of votes. McCaw is pretty much an ever present on the list of nominations. If POC is thereabouts for the top 3 players on the field, you can be sure he gets the benefit of the doubt.

jm08

Man of the Match awards are meaningless in this. Owen Farrell was nominated in 2012 for instance (along with McCaw, Carter, Michalak). The judging panel was:

The IRB panel comprised Gavin Hastings, Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibañez, Francois Pienaar, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga, Paul Wallace and John Eales.

Keith Wood was on the 2009 panel (the year BOD lost it by 1 vote I think).

Yeah_Right

MOTM awards are usually handed out by the broadcaster afaik. The "experts" they have on their panel or even one person in some cases. This award is separate from that. Let's be honest, BOD got his MOTM awards as sentimental farewell gifts. He wasn't the best player on the pitch in either match.

It's a tough one this year. I don't think any one player has set the world alight for the whole year. In my opinion, Sexton is the front runner for the Irish, Vermeulen or Folau are probably the favourites. From NZ I would say Retallick, McCaw, A. Smith and Savea have the best shots at it but I don't think any of them will win it.

Also, club rugby has no bearing on the award.

Buer

Man of the Match awards are meaningless in this. Owen Farrell was nominated in 2012 for instance (along with McCaw, Carter, Michalak). The judging panel was:

The IRB panel comprised Gavin Hastings, Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibañez, Francois Pienaar, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga, Paul Wallace and John Eales.

Keith Wood was on the 2009 panel (the year BOD lost it by 1 vote I think).

You've read how the nominees are reached, yes? Man of the match awards are a very strong indication as to who will be nominated.

Michalak was nominated specifically because of his MOTM showings for France in 2012. He didn't even make the 23 for them in the 6N and then had 3 or 4 fantastic games over the summer and autumn. The awards don't feed into the official way the points are tallied for nominations but they're a very good indication as to who is receiving the 3 points from the game.

If you're the best player on the pitch for 4 games but don't play the other 6 or 7 games that season, you've every chance of being nominated.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

MOTM awards are usually handed out by the broadcaster afaik. The "experts" they have on their panel or even one person in some cases.

A number of those working for the broadcasters are on the IRB panel.

dub_skav

Buer wrote: »

You've read how the nominees are reached, yes? Man of the match awards are a very strong indication as to who will be nominated.

Michalak was nominated specifically because of his MOTM showings for France in 2012. He didn't even make the 23 for them in the 6N and then had 3 or 4 fantastic games over the summer and autumn. The awards don't feed into the official way the points are tallied for nominations but they're a very good indication as to who is receiving the 3 points from the game.

If you're the best player on the pitch for 4 games but don't play the other 6 or 7 games that season, you've every chance of being nominated.

Not really, MOTM awards nearly always go to a player on the winning side, plus as pointed out above can be given for sentimental or name-recognition reasons.

MOTM awards are probably a good indicator that the player had a very good game and may indeed get the 3 points, but I think "very good indication" is a bit strong.

jm08

Buer wrote: »

You've read how the nominees are reached, yes? Man of the match awards are a very strong indication as to who will be nominated.

Michalak was nominated specifically because of his MOTM showings for France in 2012. He didn't even make the 23 for them in the 6N and then had 3 or 4 fantastic games over the summer and autumn. The awards don't feed into the official way the points are tallied for nominations but they're a very good indication as to who is receiving the 3 points from the game.

If you're the best player on the pitch for 4 games but don't play the other 6 or 7 games that season, you've every chance of being nominated.

The IRB Player of the Year is determined using the following criteria:
The IRB Awards panel votes on all international Test matches throughout the year using a points system i.e 3 points for best player of the match, 2 points for second best player of the match and 1 point for third best player of the match.



These votes, and a discussion amongst the IRB Awards panel to consider aspects such as form, appearances and opposition, form the basis in determining a shortlist of nominees which is announced prior to the end of the Autumn Internationals in November.


Once the nominees are announced the public is invited to give their opinion on social media as to who they believe should win the IRB Player of the Year Award. Select international media are also invited to vote.
Taking into account votes, and input from media and fans, the final winner of the prestigious IRB Player of the Year Award is determined by the IRB Awards panel at the end of the November test window.

Each country is represented on the panel:

Gavin Hastings (Scotland) Will Greenwood, (England) Raphaël Ibañez, France, Francois Pienaar (SA), Agustín Pichot (Argentina), Scott Quinnell (Wales) Tana Umaga, NZ, Paul Wallace Ireland and John Eales (Aus) and also Convenor.

Buer

dub_skav wrote: »

Not really, MOTM awards nearly always go to a player on the winning side, plus as pointed out above can be given for sentimental or name-recognition reasons.

MOTM awards are probably a good indicator that the player had a very good game and may indeed get the 3 points, but I think "very good indication" is a bit strong.

Think that's really just semantics and shades of grey. Perhaps "very good indication" is a bit strong.

For the most part, if you get a MOTM award, you're going to be getting IRB points. BOD's performance against France was the only one I can think of this year that was given for sentimental reasons undeservedly. The best player is, as a rule, from the winning side. I would consider it rare enough that the stand out player in a game was from a beaten team although it does happen, 3 times in this seasons 6N, in fact.

I don't think many would be able argue much with any of the other awards to Irish players this season, for example.

I think the name recognition gets people MOTM awards at club level where there is a much stronger lack of familiarity with some players but not really at test level (although it does skew towards goal kickers, undoubtedly). They might garner some award points when the panel are figuring who to give the one point to but I don't think it would apply to MOTM. The only person who I think has consistently benefited from that is Sergio Parisse.

For example, before this season, POC and BOD (the two biggest names in Irish rugby) had just 1 MOTM award between them in the 6N since 2009 when BOD deservedly won it in Wales last season.

Buer

jm08 wrote: »

The IRB Player of the Year is determined using the following criteria:

So you must surely understand that a few MOTM level performances are going to put someone in with a great shot of being nominated....?

Michalak is the perfect example. He didn't even appear once in the 6N tournament in 2012.

Swiwi.

As much as it would go down like a lead balloon I reckon McCaw will be nominated. Has been pretty much in the top 3 players every match which means slowly but surely accumulating points. Won't get any fan votes outside NZ though.

Id say Folau Vermeulen retallick too. Ireland's "problem" is that it's been such a team effort so no one player consistently standing out above the rest.

sydthebeat

pity they dont take club form into it as well..... some of those named already wouldnt be in with a hope :P

Yeah_Right

Well we will find out the finalists tomorrow.

Fireball07

Based purely on my opinion. Who was Ireland's best player this year? Probably Sexton, shouts out to Murray, Toner & POC I'd say. Realistically, BOD wasn't one of our top players.

Was Sexton the best player in the world? Probably not... he was good, but I think some of those already mentioned are more likely. Vermuelen is probably the favourite, but Retallick is a serious operator too, and Folau is class too.


Sexton should be nominated, wouldn't be surprised if we got another one or 2 nominations too.

Clearlier

We must be in with a decent shout for the team award and Schmidt must be leading the way for the coaches award surely?

.ak

It's just a shame that armitage won't get the opportunity to get nominated.

who_me

Fireball07 wrote: »

Based purely on my opinion. Who was Ireland's best player this year? Probably Sexton, shouts out to Murray, Toner & POC I'd say. Realistically, BOD wasn't one of our top players.

Was Sexton the best player in the world? Probably not... he was good, but I think some of those already mentioned are more likely. Vermuelen is probably the favourite, but Retallick is a serious operator too, and Folau is class too.


Sexton should be nominated, wouldn't be surprised if we got another one or 2 nominations too.

I do think we're a lot less dependent on individual brilliance, now that there's a clear, solid gameplan. As our tries showed v South Africa - a kick and chase by Bowe, kick by Henshaw and chase with Payne. Lineout and try for Ruddock (several of those names wouldn't have been in the running for an Irish place a year ago). The second try, Sexton makes a break, is out of the game, instead of a few tight phases to allow him back up Murray takes over as play-maker with a great kick and chase from Bowe.

I think we've a better shot at the team award than individual, though it's still tough to look past NZ with their recent record.

pickarooney

.ak wrote: »

It's just a shame that armitage won't get the opportunity to get nominated.

Notre sure if you mean Steffon in earnest or Delon ironically.

Swiwi.

Clearlier wrote: »

We must be in with a decent shout for the team award and Schmidt must be leading the way for the coaches award surely?

I think regardless of what happens v Aussie, Schmidt should get the coaches award. If Ireland beat Aussie they should get the team award for sure. If they lose, especially badly, then I think it's a toss-up with NZ.

NB: Although that English women's team must be in the running too, no?

Fireball07

pickarooney wrote: »

Notre sure if you mean Steffon in earnest or Delon ironically.

Both are very good players tbf, but Steffon is clearly better. In every aspect, he's also a nicer guy but is a world class back row.

Akrasia

Fireball07 wrote: »

Both are very good players tbf, but Steffon is clearly better. In every aspect, he's also a nicer guy but is a world class back row.

Has anyone mentioned Zebo yet?

bilston

Fireball07 wrote: »

Based purely on my opinion. Who was Ireland's best player this year? Probably Sexton, shouts out to Murray, Toner & POC I'd say. Realistically, BOD wasn't one of our top players.

Was Sexton the best player in the world? Probably not... he was good, but I think some of those already mentioned are more likely. Vermuelen is probably the favourite, but Retallick is a serious operator too, and Folau is class too.


Sexton should be nominated, wouldn't be surprised if we got another one or 2 nominations too.

Trimble was Ireland's best player.

Don't take my word for it. His peers and as of tonight Ireland's rugby journalists said so.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Trimble was Ireland's best player.

Don't take my word for it. His peers and as of tonight Ireland's rugby journalists said so.

I think he performed most above expectations. If Sexton had been a not so fancied player later in his career or a 20 year old kid, his performances would have been viewed differently imo

Hagz

In fairness, Sexton was clearly the best player for Ireland. Some people say Trimble was the best and some people say Toner was the best, but there's sentiment mixed in with those opinions.

former legend

bilston wrote: »

Trimble was Ireland's best player.

Don't take my word for it. His peers and as of tonight Ireland's rugby journalists said so.

The way the IRB voting works pretty much eliminates any chance Trimble has, because he won't be getting any points for the November games.

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be a bit sentimental but maybe just after 2009 (though McCaw was not undeserving that year either).

2009 showed that this award means nothing.

The voting is flawed.

efb

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be a bit sentimental but maybe just after 2009 (though McCaw was not undeserving that year either).

BoD should have gotten it in 2009, I thoight McCaw was missing a lot that year if memory serves...

Clearlier

efb wrote: »

BoD should have gotten it in 2009, I thoight McCaw was missing a lot that year if memory serves...

Pretty sure that this was recognised by all involved and they amended the process because of it (or it could just have been Wallace trying to mollify his Irish audience!).

Yeah_Right

efb wrote: »

BoD should have gotten it in 2009, I thoight McCaw was missing a lot that year if memory serves...

I think McCaw missed the June tests and a Tri-nations game. When he came back, he was unbelievable though.

I don't think BOD deserved it that year. I believe Fourier Du Preez was the best player in the world in 2009.

wittycynic

Joe for IRB Coach of the Year? Should be in with a great shout if we beat Australia.

Swiwi.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think McCaw missed the June tests and a Tri-nations game. When he came back, he was unbelievable though.

I don't think BOD deserved it that year. I believe Fourier Du Preez was the best player in the world in 2009.

PM me if you need the name of a bodyguard...

TimRiggins

twinytwo wrote: »

2009 showed that this award means nothing.

The voting is flawed.

Just because the voting system is flawed doesn't mean the award means nothing.