Reason Why Irish Channels Are Not Free On Satellite Dish?

rb25

I have a amika alien tuner & an old Sky dish.

It picks up about 600 channels including signal for Irish channels. The Irish channels appear with a dollar sign beside them indicating they are paid.

Could somebody explain why I get the BBC and all the english channels via a satellite dish for free but I need an aerial for the Irish channels or purchase them from Sky?

What are the technical reasons the Irish channels are blocked via the satellite?

Is this some scam to drive us back into the arms of sky?

doney84

I think it's because if they were FTA on the satellites Sky use people in the UK & some parts of Europe could receive them and RTE only pay for broadcast rights 2 show programs in ROI and possibly Northern Ireland. Could be more reasons but as I say I think this is one of them.

rb25

doney84 wrote: »

I think it's because if they were FTA on the satellites Sky use people in the UK & some parts of Europe could receive them and RTE only pay for broadcast rights 2 show programs in ROI and possibly Northern Ireland. Could be more reasons but as I say I think this is one of them.

I would have thought the opposite of doing this would make more commercial sense. Bigger audience would mean bigger advertising potential.

But this reason still doesn't make sense to me. They are broadcasting it either way because my receiver is receiving the satellite signal but some organisation (man in the middle) is scrambling the signal to force people that live in Ireland to pay for a free-to-air national channel. Even if I don't buy it from Sky I still have to go out & buy an approved aerial to receive it.

The Cush

rb25 wrote: »

I would have thought the opposite of doing this would make more commercial sense. Bigger audience would mean bigger advertising potential.

Bigger audience would also mean bigger actual broadcast rights costs, 6.5m population vs. 100m+ (GB/Europe overspill), too expensive for Irish broadcasters.

Thurston?

rb25 wrote: »

... Even if I don't buy it from Sky I still have to go out & buy an approved aerial to receive it.

I don't think there are any Saorview approved aerials. No such thing as 'digital' or 'HD' aerials either. You do need the right kind of aerial.

Atlantic Dawn

I think an RTÉ international channel would work well, could be a stripped down version of the locally produced TV and then merged with RTÉ News for when there's rights problems like for live Sport or films.

ei9go

RTE channels are free on satellite, just not on Astra 28.2.

Google Saorsat

rb25

ei9go wrote: »

RTE channels are free on satellite, just not on Astra 28.2.

Google Saorsat

@ei9go Interesting. Have never heard of this. Can I get both the BBC/ITV etc. and the Irish channels available at the same time on the tuner box I have?

Or if I were to tune receiver into Saorsat does all of the channels I currently have disappear?

Thurston?

rb25 wrote: »

... Can I get both the BBC/ITV etc. and the Irish channels available at the same time on the tuner box I have?

Saorsat doesn't have TV3 or 3e, & RTE1 is still SD. You would need either a separate dish for Saorsat (min. size recommended for the southeast would be 80cm) or a single large dish with 2 LNBs mounted, that could receive UK & Saorsat (probably more like 100cm to be reliable).

Less DIY friendly than Saorview, if you're thinking along those lines.

winston_1

rb25 wrote: »

What are the technical reasons the Irish channels are blocked via the satellite?

Is this some scam to drive us back into the arms of sky?

There are no technical reasons. The reasons are greed.

Irish channels could be free to view and cards issued to Irish licence payers only.

Of course some would escape overseas but it would not be a big issue.

coylemj

In return for Sky carrying the RTE channels, they (Sky) make the channels available to their Irish subscribers. For RTE that means a cheap route into peoples homes. For Sky it means that there is an incentive for people living in Ireland to continue paying the Sky subscription, especially if you live in an apartment block and can't stick an aerial on the roof.

So it's essentially a marriage of (commercial) convenience but as already stated, there is no technical reason why you couldn't pick them up.

rb25

coylemj wrote: »

So it's essentially a marriage of (commercial) convenience but as already stated, there is no technical reason why you couldn't pick them up.

Or just pushing the inconvenience and costs onto average punters like me.

winston_1

coylemj wrote: »

In return for Sky carrying the RTE channels, they (Sky) make the channels available to their Irish subscribers. For RTE that means a cheap route into peoples homes. For Sky it means that there is an incentive for people living in Ireland to continue paying the Sky subscription, especially if you live in an apartment block and can't stick an aerial on the roof.

So it's essentially a marriage of (commercial) convenience but as already stated, there is no technical reason why you couldn't pick them up.

If an apartment block can distribute sky it can distribute an aerial feed so that argument is invalid.

So it is cheap for RTE, and a nice little earner for sky. What about the Irish viewer who has to pay twice, once through the licence fee or its new equivalent and again through a sky sub, for this cosy little cartel?

icdg

winston_1 wrote: »

If an apartment block can distribute sky it can distribute an aerial feed so that argument is invalid.

So it is cheap for RTE, and a nice little earner for sky. What about the Irish viewer who has to pay twice, once through the licence fee or its new equivalent and again through a sky sub, for this cosy little cartel?

The numbers who must pay Sky to access RTÉ (presumably apartment owners who cannot pick up Saorview using a set-top aerial alone and for whom Communal Sky is the only television option) is presumably very low. Even these people could access most RTÉ programming on RTÉ.ie.

winston_1 wrote: »

There are no technical reasons. The reasons are greed.

Irish channels could be free to view and cards issued to Irish licence payers only.

Of course some would escape overseas but it would not be a big issue.

You say it like its a simple thing to do. Its not. The BBC stopped such a scheme which operated in the UK because it was cheaper to go free to air (they had less rights issues to contend with by doing so). You have to remember that RTÉ would still need to pay Sky large sums to run the scheme (the channels would still be encrypted in VideoGuard, there would still be a need to issue Sky viewing cards to the users of the scheme, and RTÉ would have to pay for EPG listing at the commercial rate). It would also have to operate a call centre to administer the scheme. Now it would have to do this at expense to the licence fee payer and very little benefit to RTÉ.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I think an RTÉ international channel would work well, could be a stripped down version of the locally produced TV and then merged with RTÉ News for when there's rights problems like for live Sport or films.

There are long standing plans to create such a channel - called RTÉ Ireland in the current version of the plans. Apparently it is still on the agenda but doesn't look like happening any time soon. You can however be sure that if such a channel is created it will not be on the Sky ROI EPG.

The Cush wrote: »

Bigger audience would also mean bigger actual broadcast rights costs, 6.5m population vs. 100m+ (GB/Europe overspill), too expensive for Irish broadcasters.

This is the biggest reason. RTÉ would no longer be buying rights for Ireland alone. It would be forced to complete in the UK rights market and wouldn't have the money to do so. Also Equity would be on looking for larger fees which would put up the price of RTÉ's home produced programming too.

winston_1

icdg wrote: »

The numbers who must pay Sky to access RTÉ (presumably apartment owners who cannot pick up Saorview using a set-top aerial alone and for whom Communal Sky is the only television option) is presumably very low. Even these people could access most RTÉ programming on RTÉ.ie.



You say it like its a simple thing to do. Its not. The BBC stopped such a scheme which operated in the UK because it was cheaper to go free to air (they had less rights issues to contend with by doing so). You have to remember that RTÉ would still need to pay Sky large sums to run the scheme (the channels would still be encrypted in VideoGuard, there would still be a need to issue Sky viewing cards to the users of the scheme, and RTÉ would have to pay for EPG listing at the commercial rate). It would also have to operate a call centre to administer the scheme. Now it would have to do this at expense to the licence fee payer and very little benefit to RTÉ.



There are long standing plans to create such a channel - called RTÉ Ireland in the current version of the plans. Apparently it is still on the agenda but doesn't look like happening any time soon. You can however be sure that if such a channel is created it will not be on the Sky ROI EPG.



This is the biggest reason. RTÉ would no longer be buying rights for Ireland alone. It would be forced to complete in the UK rights market and wouldn't have the money to do so. Also Equity would be on looking for larger fees which would put up the price of RTÉ's home produced programming too.

I've already stated that apartments that can have communal sky can also have communal terrestrial so that is not a valid argument.

RTE is already on sky encrypted in video guard. The only extra costs would be issuing cards. I doubt a large call centre would be required. I believe sky currently provide RTE EPG free of charge, well they could be told to carry on doing so or RTE would be pulled. With a free to view system on sky the Soarsat service could be dropped which would save a lot.

winston_1

icdg wrote: »

The numbers who must pay Sky to access RTÉ (presumably apartment owners who cannot pick up Saorview using a set-top aerial alone and for whom Communal Sky is the only television option) is presumably very low. Even these people could access most RTÉ programming on RTÉ.ie.



You say it like its a simple thing to do. Its not. The BBC stopped such a scheme which operated in the UK because it was cheaper to go free to air (they had less rights issues to contend with by doing so). You have to remember that RTÉ would still need to pay Sky large sums to run the scheme (the channels would still be encrypted in VideoGuard, there would still be a need to issue Sky viewing cards to the users of the scheme, and RTÉ would have to pay for EPG listing at the commercial rate). It would also have to operate a call centre to administer the scheme. Now it would have to do this at expense to the licence fee payer and very little benefit to RTÉ.



There are long standing plans to create such a channel - called RTÉ Ireland in the current version of the plans. Apparently it is still on the agenda but doesn't look like happening any time soon. You can however be sure that if such a channel is created it will not be on the Sky ROI EPG.



This is the biggest reason. RTÉ would no longer be buying rights for Ireland alone. It would be forced to complete in the UK rights market and wouldn't have the money to do so. Also Equity would be on looking for larger fees which would put up the price of RTÉ's home produced programming too.

I've already said if apartments can provide communal sky they can provide communal terrestrial so that argument does not apply.

RTE is already on sky encrypted in video guard so the only extra costs are the cards. I doubt that a large call centre would be needed. I believe sky provides the RTE EPG free of charge. Well they need telling to continue to do so RTE would be pulled. With free to view RTE on sky Saorsat could be discontinued as well which would save a lot of money.

winston_1

I've already said if apartments can provide communial sky they can provide communal terrestrial so that argument is invalid.

RTE is already on sky encrypted in videoguard so the additional cost of cards is small. I doubt a call centre would be required. Plus Saorsat could be stopped saving a lot of money.

TAFKAlawhec

Off the top of my head, there are only four countries in Europe where the main PSB broadcasters broadcast their main/flagship domestic channels FTA via satellite for at least most of the day. The UK, Germany, Italy & France. For the last two there are some restrictions, with Italy RAI they simply encrypt any programming that they don't have rights to show outside Italy (e.g F1) while France Televisions while the Mediaset owned Canal 5 operates a blackout on such programming on their FTA stations on Hotbird (e.g. Champions League soccer). Most of France Televisions' stations are FTA on 5 West, but France 4 isn't available.

In most countries in Europe, viewing PSB stations and popular general commercial stations (that may or may not have PSB missions) via satellite requires either a subscription to a pay-tv package, or in some cases the purchase of a viewing card from the broadcaster. A few also broadcast an 'international' channel from their PSB e.g. Romaina, Serbia, Albania. In this sense RTÉ are in that area, with the addition of a FTA service using Ka rather than Ku frequencies.

To the best of my knowledge, BSkyB pretty much pay everything for RTÉ, TV3 (but not 3e) & TG4 to have their channels available on their platform from transponder rental, uplink kit, EPG fees etc. because Sky feel that having the main Irish broadcasters on their platform is a bigger enticement for people to subscribe and that the costs in providing these outlays are outweighed by extra subscription revenue being brought in.

Saorsat may not have TV3 or 3e, but that is a commercial decision for them. RTÉ One may not be HD either, but neither is it on Sky for the time being. A previous report suggests that Saorsat is pretty cheap to run for 2RN compared to a lot of other ongoing costs. Hiring transponders on the Astra satellites at 28.2 east would cost a lot more in comparison, would require encryption with either their own call centre or sub-contracted, Sky EPG fees etc. Also tying a conditional access system for viewing to being only available via approved Sky receivers would be a politically sensitive decision - for its shortcomings Saorsat is viewable via any DVB-S2 receiver. The BBC quickly got away from the Solus scheme in the UK due to its shortcomings, with ITV, Channel 4 & Channel 5 following suit. A multi-CAS solution could be put in place, but that adds additional cost. You then have no certainty that TV3 or TG4 would join RTÉ on such a scheme (remember like RTÉ they get a free ride through Sky too), and without them, such a scheme could cost even more for licence fee viewers.

The current methods that RTÉ employ for the distribution of their programming is fairly good value for them. Almost everyone in the state can access their programming by at least one method, and almost everyone of them can do so by at least one FTA signal. It's up to the viewer as to how they access these channels.

icdg

winston_1 wrote: »

I've already said if apartments can provide communal sky they can provide communal terrestrial so that argument does not apply.

That's up to the apartment management companies. It's not a matter for RTE to arrange

RTE is already on sky encrypted in video guard so the only extra costs are the cards. I doubt that a large call centre would be needed. I believe sky provides the RTE EPG free of charge.

They would lose all of that if no longer part of the Sky package. A new deal would have to be negotiated and if there is no benefit for Sky in terms of subscriptions RTE will be paying the full rate card for encryption and EPG listings.

rb25

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Off the top of my head, there are only four countries in Europe where the main PSB broadcasters broadcast their main/flagship domestic channels FTA via satellite for at least most of the day. The UK, Germany, Italy & France. For the last two there are some restrictions, with Italy RAI they simply encrypt any programming that they don't have rights to show outside Italy (e.g F1) while France Televisions while the Mediaset owned Canal 5 operates a blackout on such programming on their FTA stations on Hotbird (e.g. Champions League soccer). Most of France Televisions' stations are FTA on 5 West, but France 4 isn't available.

In most countries in Europe, viewing PSB stations and popular general commercial stations (that may or may not have PSB missions) via satellite requires either a subscription to a pay-tv package, or in some cases the purchase of a viewing card from the broadcaster. A few also broadcast an 'international' channel from their PSB e.g. Romaina, Serbia, Albania. In this sense RTÉ are in that area, with the addition of a FTA service using Ka rather than Ku frequencies.

To the best of my knowledge, BSkyB pretty much pay everything for RTÉ, TV3 (but not 3e) & TG4 to have their channels available on their platform from transponder rental, uplink kit, EPG fees etc. because Sky feel that having the main Irish broadcasters on their platform is a bigger enticement for people to subscribe and that the costs in providing these outlays are outweighed by extra subscription revenue being brought in.

Saorsat may not have TV3 or 3e, but that is a commercial decision for them. RTÉ One may not be HD either, but neither is it on Sky for the time being. A previous report suggests that Saorsat is pretty cheap to run for 2RN compared to a lot of other ongoing costs. Hiring transponders on the Astra satellites at 28.2 east would cost a lot more in comparison, would require encryption with either their own call centre or sub-contracted, Sky EPG fees etc. Also tying a conditional access system for viewing to being only available via approved Sky receivers would be a politically sensitive decision - for its shortcomings Saorsat is viewable via any DVB-S2 receiver. The BBC quickly got away from the Solus scheme in the UK due to its shortcomings, with ITV, Channel 4 & Channel 5 following suit. A multi-CAS solution could be put in place, but that adds additional cost. You then have no certainty that TV3 or TG4 would join RTÉ on such a scheme (remember like RTÉ they get a free ride through Sky too), and without them, such a scheme could cost even more for licence fee viewers.

The current methods that RTÉ employ for the distribution of their programming is fairly good value for them. Almost everyone in the state can access their programming by at least one method, and almost everyone of them can do so by at least one FTA signal. It's up to the viewer as to how they access these channels.

Thanks for the reply. It seems to me it's good value for RTE & SKY but pushes the costs higher for people trying to access the Irish channels as the cost is transferred via a subscription model to Joe public. In my case I cannot get the channels via an aerial so I'm either forced to pay Sky or do without. This brings up the related subject of being forced to pay the license fee of €160 for NOT being able to receive all the channels. This applies to many people in my area and is not just an once off issue for my situation.

Is the Department Of Communications ultimately responsible for this situation? (seeing as RTE is the state broadcaster)

Thurston?

rb25 wrote: »

In my case I cannot get the channels via an aerial so I'm either forced to pay Sky or do without. This brings up the related subject of being forced to pay the license fee of €160 for NOT being able to receive all the channels. This applies to many people in my area and is not just an once off issue for my situation.

Is your own experience based solely on your DIY aerial rigging attempts? What about the 'many people' you refer to here? Is your area actually screened from Mt. Leinster?

winston_1

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge, BSkyB pretty much pay everything for RTÉ, TV3 (but not 3e) & TG4 to have their channels available on their platform from transponder rental, uplink kit, EPG fees etc. because Sky feel that having the main Irish broadcasters on their platform is a bigger enticement for people to subscribe and that the costs in providing these outlays are outweighed by extra subscription revenue being brought in.

Don't you think this would also be the case if they were FTV?

Imstuck

Thurston? wrote: »

Is your own experience based solely on your DIY aerial rigging attempts? What about the 'many people' you refer to here? Is your area actually screened from Mt. Leinster?

I am in the same predicament, only way I can view is via saorsat, so another expensive cost purely for rte!!!

TAFKAlawhec

winston_1 wrote: »

Don't you think this would also be the case if they were FTV?

Do you?

TAFKAlawhec

rb25 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. It seems to me it's good value for RTE & SKY but pushes the costs higher for people trying to access the Irish channels as the cost is transferred via a subscription model to Joe public.

The only people paying to watch RTÉ, TV3 & TG4 on the Sky platform are those subscribing to Sky the same way as they are on UPC. No burden (or one so minuscule as to be as good as no burden e.g. the electricity costs for the uplink) is placed on licence fee payers in the state.

rb25 wrote: »

In my case I cannot get the channels via an aerial so I'm either forced to pay Sky or do without.

You can obtain all RTÉ TV services plus TG4 free to air if you can visibly see the 9 degree east orbital position. Also it's possible to get RTÉ television services via UPC or another cable operator if one is available in your area. I was going to mention MMDS, but that is on borrowed time.

rb25 wrote: »

This brings up the related subject of being forced to pay the license fee of €160 for NOT being able to receive all the channels. This applies to many people in my area and is not just an once off issue for my situation.

Terrestrial coverage in nearly all countries are made on a "best effort" basis, and in Ireland's case the terrain makes this a challenge. Saorview currently covers roughly 99% of the population of the Republic of Ireland which is as good if not better than that of Freeview in the UK. It is unfortunate that you seem to be in a spot where no reception of Saorview transmissions seem possible. The licence fee is not a guarantor of terrestrial reception.

rb25 wrote: »

Is the Department Of Communications ultimately responsible for this situation? (seeing as RTE is the state broadcaster)

Strictly speaking RTÉ is not a "state broadcaster", as that infers that the state is not only the owner of the broadcaster but also acts as its propaganda arm with direct control over content, more applicable to countries whose freedom of journalism isn't largely free. In most western democracies, there are public service broadcasters enabled by the respective states & authorities (but don't run them on a day-to-day basis) whose job is to be at least informative and impartial in their output. With RTÉ being a semi-state body, they cover this function for the Irish Republic. While some people will debate as to wherever some elements of RTÉ's journalism may lean to certain political parties at times due to some sympathies of people with power in the broadcaster, if it was found out that the Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources was directly influencing RTÉ News & programming output without an exceptional reason for intervening, it would (quite rightly) be a scandal. In other countries where they either don't hold western democratic values or where they are subverted, shoulders tend to be shrugged.

I'd be curious as to what you want the DCENR to do? The cost of terrestrial provision gets much more expensive as you start to approach covering 100% of the population (note that providers of terrestrial based services be it television, radio, mobile, wireless broadband etc. all have coverage limits)?

rb25

@TAFKAlawhec a good defense there of the current situation. I'm just asking questions & looking for the facts as to why the current situation exists as it does.

My opinion before asking was one of thinking there must be something dodgy going on that I can get free English channels but not free Irish channels. That hasn't changed.

Majority seem to have no problems with reception which is good. By the sounds of it from responses there is a general happiness with continuing to pay Sky or to spend money on installing aerials & cabling for FTA channels.

Grand I suppose if there's spare cash to do that.

Thurston?

rb25 wrote: »

By the sounds of it from responses there is a general happiness with continuing to pay Sky or to spend money on installing aerials & cabling for FTA channels.

I would have thought the terrestrial broadcast system would be seen as the default option for Irish channels, outside of areas that have been cabled for a long time anyway.

If your house had happened to have a working aerial rather than a dish, would you be wondering why UK channels weren't provided on Saorview, or would it have seemed more worthwhile to get a dish installed, in that case? Is it just that the few Saorview channels don't seem worth the bother?

Tony

winston_1 wrote: »

well they could be told to carry on doing so or RTE would be pulled. .

That's not a realistic scenario, RTE's advertisers would then pull advertising leading to further loss of revenue .In any case RTE have a contract with sky which can't be rescinded without consequence. As stated previously the BBC stopped paying for cards as its not financially advantageous . Not sure why you think issueing viewing cards would be a low cost option.

icdg

rb25 wrote: »

My opinion before asking was one of thinking there must be something dodgy going on that I can get free English channels but not free Irish channels. That hasn't changed.

The population of the UK is 64m or thereabouts. The population of ROI is 4.5m or so.

For the UK broadcasters, they are adding only about 8% to their broadcast area by broadcasting free to air to Ireland. On cable and satellite most rights are bought on a UK and Ireland basis anyway. The rights holders aren't ao much worried about that kind of overspill and Irish broadcasters traditionally haven't put up massive objections anyway.

But for an ROI broadcaster, going FTA and adding the UK market increases the broadcast population by a whopping 1400%! The rights holders and UK broadcasters would not be happy with that. The outcome before long, as I mentioned earlier, would be that ROI broadcasters would have to compete in the UK rights market. The costs of acquiring sporting rights and imports would be so high that you could say goodbye to Irish broadcasters holding rights to most imports and any international sporting events that are not listed or purely of Irish interest.

watty

Also traditionally even before Sky Digital about 70% of Ireland had BBC/ITV!

This has all been explained a million times and there are stickies with the info as well as 1000s of Google hits.

Staff, composers, Actors etc even for Irish productions would have to be paid massively more if they had a UK audience.

Of course RTE presenters are already paid as if they had 70M+ UK + Ireland and others audience and Celebrities. They are x5 to x20 overpaid already.

watty

The Licence fee here is purely for having a Reception Apparatus. It doesn't matter if you only watch free to air Italian TV or only DVDs. It nearly came in during 1955, almost seven years before Irish TV. It's never been about reception of Irish TV. Before Irish TV started, Dublin was practically an aircraft hazard and maybe a 1/3 of East and Border had BBC before ITV even started in 1955.

watty

winston_1 wrote: »

There are no technical reasons. The reasons are greed.

Irish channels could be free to view and cards issued to Irish licence payers only.

Of course some would escape overseas but it would not be a big issue.

Nonsense.

Cards do not limit area. There would be a huge market selling the cards, like there used to be in mainland Europe when BBC was on Solus card and Wide Beam. They went to a narrower beam to ditch the cards.

Also the cost of cards is massive, more expensive than Saorsat just for annual cost. The Call Centre costs close to €1Million p.a. It suits Sky to add Irish TV to Irish Sky subscribers. RTE, TV3 & TG4 are charged nothing. If there was an Irish FTV card scheme annual card costs would be nearly €1Million PA too. So FTV could cost x2 to x3 Saorsat AND let everyone in UK that wanted it, the Irish TV as they wouldn't be able to regulate how many cards sold in Ireland and can't stop them being used elsewhere.

Cards really only work for PAY TV, as the channels get income from cards and in reality there is only an issue if the same pay content is on a cheaper card from a competitor, otherwise actually no-one cares about PAY /Subscription fully paid for cards used somewhere else.

winston_1

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Do you?

Yes, with the right negotiation by RTE.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

Also traditionally even before Sky Digital about 70% of Ireland had BBC/ITV!

We're not of these via illegal relay transmitters?

winston_1

watty wrote: »

The Licence fee here is purely for having a Reception Apparatus. It doesn't matter if you only watch free to air Italian TV or only DVDs. It nearly came in during 1955, almost seven years before Irish TV. It's never been about reception of Irish TV. Before Irish TV started, Dublin was practically an aircraft hazard and maybe a 1/3 of East and Border had BBC before ITV even started in 1955.

Surely if you only watch DVDs on a monitor no licence is required.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

Cards do not limit area. There would be a huge market selling the cards, like there used to be in mainland Europe when BBC was on Solus card and Wide Beam. They went to a narrower beam to ditch the cards.

At the end of the day how many people outside of Ireland would want Irish TV, especially if they had to pay £25 plus local agents fees for a card? Very few I would suggest.

watty

winston_1 wrote: »

Surely if you only watch DVDs on a monitor no licence is required.

Yes.
But if it's a TV tuner in it , or you have an unused VHS, DTT box, Sat box or Cable TV box it counts as a reception apparatus even if only a monitor. Even if only analogue. (small boxes to convert exist) Even a 405 TV today STILL needs a licence. You can actually feed it from an Aurora fed from a DTT box, cable or Satellite.

A Laptop + €6 DTT stick or PC with a Satellite card counts as a reception apparatus. Even if currently you don't watch Broadcast TV. It's possession that counts!

watty

winston_1 wrote: »

At the end of the day how many people outside of Ireland would want Irish TV, especially if they had to pay £25 plus local agents fees for a card? Very few I would suggest.

It's a cheap once off cost if RTE / TV3 /TG4 etc happens to have the TV series ahead of UK or the particular Sport (even GAA, also IRISH Rugby, not just UK sports).
There is a reason Loyalist East Belfast etc has had Irish Terrestrial TV for years in Analogue Era.
It could easily be 4 million extra viewers.
Something nice could easily double it later.

Also the card even if NOT used in UK, would cost x2 to x3 existing Saorsat, every year and have Sky in control and using it to promote Sky Pay TV.

watty

winston_1 wrote: »

We're not of these via illegal relay transmitters?

That was later. Direct Reception and Cable was 70%
Later MMDS and the illegal Relay (the unpaid royalty charges to BBC /ITV etc are not much and easily negotiated, the main illegality was breaking Irish laws on Transmitters, hence misleading calling them "Deflectors")
In early 1980s I contacted BBC regarding retransmission permission/royalties for a Kerry /Clare /Limerick consortium. That wasn't the problem. Local Transmission licence was the stumbling block. Back then even a microwave link to feed one mountain from another was nearly impossible. Chorus got the first such link licence to feed Keeper from Cavan instead of the massive aerial arrays on Keeper. Eventually Chorus and NTL paid the small royalty charge to UK channels. It's small as mostly they have the rights anyway here. The Dutch pay the BBC more for BBC on their cable I think.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

Yes.
But if it's a TV tuner in it , or you have an unused VHS, DTT box, Sat box or Cable TV box it counts as a reception apparatus even if only a monitor. Even if only analogue. (small boxes to convert exist) Even a 405 TV today STILL needs a licence. You can actually feed it from an Aurora fed from a DTT box, cable or Satellite.

A Laptop + €6 DTT stick or PC with a Satellite card counts as a reception apparatus. Even if currently you don't watch Broadcast TV. It's possession that counts!

Seems pretty unreasonable to have to pay a licence on unused or unusable apparatus.

Digifriendly

Could they not make TG4 FTA the same way BBC Alba and S4C are?

watty

No
For the reasons described above.
Ordinary BBC,ITV, C4 and Five are FTA.

watty

winston_1 wrote: »

Seems pretty unreasonable to have to pay a licence on unused or unusable apparatus.

It's a tax on owning it really. It may be unreasonable, I'm not sure because how do they know it's unused?
The new plan is a universal per household media tax*. The flaws may be in how it's collected (Electricity bill is simplest, every 2 months instead of annual) and how they spend it. Don't bother taxing people not on the grid.
(* that may automatically stop people cheating about offices, 2nd & 3rdd homes etc).

icdg

We might keep the licence fee discussion to the sticky in broadcasting

fryup

so why is the BBC broadcasting on fta satellite?? they're not a commercial station as such

i mean ..if i was a british resident i would be rightly p!ssed off paying my licence fee knowing the rest of europe can get it for free

icdg

They ran the numbers and found free to air cheaper than the free to view scheme they previously used. They no longer needed to pay Sky for encryption, only an EPG listing. It also helped that a new Astra satellite was launched whose footprint was targeted solely at the UK and Ireland (at least with the Sky minidishes anyway). Made it more expensive (though not entirely impossible) for people on the continent to pick up.

winston_1

fryup wrote: »

so why is the BBC broadcasting on fta satellite?? they're not a commercial station as such

i mean ..if i was a british resident i would be rightly p!ssed off paying my licence fee knowing the rest of europe can get it for free

Well I'm a British resident and it does not piss me off. What would piss me off would be having to get a sky box and having to pay a subscription to Murdoch to watch those channels in addition to the licence fee.

Yes some people outside the UK including Ireland can get them for free but I am able to watch (some) other countries for free as well.

kooga

fryup wrote: »

so why is the BBC broadcasting on fta satellite?? they're not a commercial station as such

i mean ..if i was a british resident i would be rightly p!ssed off paying my licence fee knowing the rest of europe can get it for free

the rest of europe cant watch it free as it is a very tight beam over the uk and ireland.

watty

fryup wrote: »

so why is the BBC broadcasting on fta satellite?? they're not a commercial station as such

i mean ..if i was a british resident i would be rightly p!ssed off paying my licence fee knowing the rest of europe can get it for free

You'd be even more cross if the Licence fee was going to Sky to pay for Card!
Also ANYONE was in reality able to easily and cheaply get a FTV / Solus card once off charge and watch over x3 to x5 as big an area as today.

FTV cards are an illusion. PayTV cards work because the pay channels get money and in reality don't care who watches as long as it is paid for!

lertsnim

Digifriendly wrote: »

Could they not make TG4 FTA the same way BBC Alba and S4C are?

BBC Alba and S4C don't show imports in the English language. TG4 do.

watty

lertsnim wrote: »

BBC Alba and S4C don't show imports in the English language. TG4 do.

Even if they did it would be irrelevant. See reason why BBC, ITV, C4 and Five are Free To Air.