SHOULD I BUILD OR UPGRADE?

IrlMonk

Hi all,
I need some advice please.
I need to run some 3D cad software with a min of 4Gb RAM, but personally i think the software needs at least 8Gb.
The PC i have at the moment hangs whenever i use the program.
Is there any advice on tweaking hardware or should i upgrade or do a new build.

Here is the specs on the pc i have at the moment.
CPU: i3 Intel Core2 Quad Q8200 CPU @ 2.33GHz Bus speed: 1333 Instruction Set 64bit
RAM: 4G DDR2 single channel
Graphics Card: GeForce 8800 GTS
Mobo: Ecs MCP73VT-PM LGA775 DDR2


I just made this PC up from parts and need to sort out a solution asap.
I am thinking about what i can do here that works out the least expensive!!
I know it's a bad spec but i thought it would do the job! :-(

OPTIONS:
(1)
Should i get 2x4Gb RAM modules?
8GB Patriot DDR2 Signature Series PC2-6400 800MHz CL6 Dual Channel kit (2x4GB) Cost: 190 from Memoryc (Should the ram module frequencies match the CPU FSB?)

(2)
Should i get a better graphics card?

(3)
Should i get a better CPU?

(4)
Should i do a new build with a budget of 500-600 (borrowed cash!!)

I need to sort this out within a week or two.


Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks

free_man

Hi
Your issue is RAM.
GPU and CPU seems OK to me.
As MB has only 2 slots , you are stuck with max. 8GB RAM also you are stuck with single channel.
For CAD software, more RAM you have better it is.

My suggestion is to a MB with 4-6 RAM slots and add RAM as you have spare money. LGA775 MBs have been out of market for some time now. Buy a cheapo MB from ebay and you should be grand. I can't post weblinks, search ebay for LGA775.

Lu Tze

IrlMonk wrote: »

Hi all,
I need some advice please.
I need to run some 3D cad software with a min of 4Gb RAM, but personally i think the software needs at least 8Gb.
The PC i have at the moment hangs whenever i use the program.
Is there any advice on tweaking hardware or should i upgrade or do a new build.

Here is the specs on the pc i have at the moment.
CPU: i3 Intel Core2 Quad Q8200 CPU @ 2.33GHz Bus speed: 1333 Instruction Set 64bit
RAM: 4G DDR2 single channel
Graphics Card: GeForce 8800 GTS
Mobo: Ecs MCP73VT-PM LGA775 DDR2


I just made this PC up from parts and need to sort out a solution asap.
I am thinking about what i can do here that works out the least expensive!!
I know it's a bad spec but i thought it would do the job! :-(

OPTIONS:
(1)
Should i get 2x4Gb RAM modules?
8GB Patriot DDR2 Signature Series PC2-6400 800MHz CL6 Dual Channel kit (2x4GB) Cost: 190 from Memoryc (Should the ram module frequencies match the CPU FSB?)

(2)
Should i get a better graphics card?

(3)
Should i get a better CPU?

(4)
Should i do a new build with a budget of 500-600 (borrowed cash!!)

I need to sort this out within a week or two.


Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks

What prgram are you running? Does it run at all? Do you have 64bit windows to take advantage of any extra ram you put in?

Any ram you buy will only be of use in this pc, if you decide to upgrade in the next few months or year you will not be able to re-use the ram. Keep that in mind if you are splashing that kind of cash on an 8 GB kit.

IrlMonk

Cheers to responses ;-)
I want to run CADmep, when I open the drawing it is grand, panning and zooming in a 2D plan is grand but when I switch to 3D the drawing would just hang.
I had a Pentium 4 CPU in it but I had to take it out as it only used a 32bit Instruction set and the drawing would just crash. The full 4G ram was not recognised.
Ideally the more ram the better and maybe a new and better CPU in the future.
So thanks to you an idea might be to upgrade the MOBO and get two 8G ram modules. And eventually change the GPU and get a new SSD.
What's your thoughts on this?

Thanks

Lu Tze

IrlMonk wrote: »

Cheers to responses ;-)
I want to run CADmep, when I open the drawing it is grand, panning and zooming in a 2D plan is grand but when I switch to 3D the drawing would just hang.
I had a Pentium 4 CPU in it but I had to take it out as it only used a 32bit Instruction set and the drawing would just crash. The full 4G ram was not recognised.
Ideally the more ram the better and maybe a new and better CPU in the future.
So thanks to you an idea might be to upgrade the MOBO and get two 8G ram modules. And eventually change the GPU and get a new SSD.
What's your thoughts on this?

Thanks

Yeah, ddr3 ram while expensive is probably less than half the price of the ddr2 ram you listed above. You could keep things pretty cheap

Motherboard - €37.79
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/151628/ASRock+H81M-VG4%2C+Sockel+1150%2C+mATX.article

RAM - €66.45
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

CPU - €63.62
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/165994/Intel+Pentium+G3440+in-a-Box.article

Coming to less that what you might have spent on the ram above.

Im not recommending this, it would depend on how much you could come up with as regards budget, and whether you could reuse case and power supply etc.

The main benefit is you would be on the current processor socket, so if down the line you need a better processor thats all you need to replace i.e. good upgrade potential if required, with lots of options.

IrlMonk

Would I not be better with an Atx form factor rather than an m-atx ?
And maybe 16G of ram?
The prices on that site are excellent, are they reliable?

Cheers

Ninjah Tigah

For the CPU:

http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/173606/Intel+Pentium+G3258+Anniversary+Edition+Box%2C+1150.article

Can be overclocked, the G3440 can't as far as I'm aware. The only benefit of the G3440 is that it's clock speed is slightly higher, which can be solved by over-clocking very slightly.

Lu Tze

IrlMonk wrote: »

Would I not be better with an Atx form factor rather than an m-atx ?
And maybe 16G of ram?
The prices on that site are excellent, are they reliable?

Cheers

Sort out your budget first. Yeah ive bought off them before. There is also a discount site which will get you some money off the prices listed.

Motherboard shape/size depends on your case, and if its compatible.

Somebody will be able to recommend better parts on here, when you have a budget. i was just showing what you could get for the price of the ram you were looking at.

IrlMonk

Great info from all the gurus ;-)
It is just your standard tower Packard Bell, would I be better off dumping it and getting something more up to date?
My budget would be 200-300, but If I need to increase that to get it right then I might be able.

I'm thinking an atx mobo with usb3, a nice CPU 3+GHz, 16gb DDR3 Ram and if it's possible within budget an ssd!

Ninjah Tigah

A budget of 200-300 I don't think you'll fit in an atx board, 16gb of ram, ssd and a 3+ghz processor.

If I were you, I'd go for a more powerful cpu, 8gb ram, ATX board(has usb 3.0) and an ssd.

Something like;

(my suggestion)
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/169180/Crucial+MX100+SSD+128GB+%282%2C5%2C+7mm%29.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/79683/MSI+Z87-G41+PC+Mate%2C+ATX%2C+1150.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/165416/Intel+Core+i3-4150+in-a-Box.article

Also, do you mean a case like this:

http://image.computeuk.co.uk/cache/data/Products/PC%20Systems/101527-500x500.jpg

IrlMonk

Yes, that's the case.
I think your advice is sound so far.
I can upgrade the ram at a later stage.
Does the m-atx have 4 slots for ram upgrade?
I'm up to my eyeballs with the kids at the moment and will check the specs out later.
Thanks

Ninjah Tigah

Went for an ATX instead of the mATX, sorry, put in the m. So yeah, does have 4 slots.

I have one of those cases downstairs and it seems to have plenty of room. - Going to go check now.

Ninjah Tigah

You could potentially get what you were looking for but the cpu is more important than having loads of ram. Especially because it's easier to upgrade the ram than the cpu.

Lu Tze

You can get m-atx with 4 dimm slots. M-atx are often cheaper than the atx equivalent board, the only thing you are loosing is a few pci slots, 4 is enough for most!

Ninjah Tigah

If the case is the same as the one that I have downstairs. I would seriously doubt there's enough room for an ATX board, mATX would be the max.

Ninjah Tigah

http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/81331/Gigabyte+B85M-D3H%2C+mATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

May be your best bet.

IrlMonk

The case appears to be the same as the one I have. How did you know which case I had? ??? Was it the hardware that I specified?
I didn't think the mobo at present was an m-atx!
The honest reason why I choose atx over m-atx is that I believe there is plenty of room for airflow and extra large hardware. Maybe I'm wrong!

Ninjah Tigah

IrlMonk wrote: »

The case appears to be the same as the one I have. How did you know which case I had? ??? Was it the hardware that I specified?
I didn't think the mobo at present was an m-atx!
The honest reason why I choose atx over m-atx is that I believe there is plenty of room for airflow and extra large hardware. Maybe I'm wrong!

Telepathy! :O Nah, it's just that Packard Bells towers are quite limited and was curious. ^^

Hmm, the case I have downstairs that looks the same as that picture would only be able to support an mATX board. Maybe your case is larger?

Do you think it would be possible for you to measure the height of the case?

IrlMonk

Here is a thought:
Am I better off borrowing more cash and doing a mighty better build from scratch than upgrading the present system?
The work I will get will pay back the cost of a good system very rapid.
600-1000
Any thoughts welcome

IrlMonk

The case measures 170x400x400mm, it is smaller than I thought initially so maybe m-atx is the right ff for the case

Lu Tze

IrlMonk wrote: »

Here is a thought:
Am I better off borrowing more cash and doing a mighty better build from scratch than upgrading the present system?
The work I will get will pay back the cost of a good system very rapid.
600-1000
Any thoughts welcome

To be honest, you are losing on the double when you borrow to pc hardware. It depreciates quickly as the tech sector moves so fast, and you are paying it back with interest.

I wouldnt go mad, you could get a decent base build for €~400. If you think you will want more performance down the line start to put 20 quid aside a week.

The base build should be much better than your old one

IrlMonk

When you say base build are you implying a new build from the case up?

Lu Tze

Motherboard
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/81331/Gigabyte+B85M-D3H%2C+mATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

CPU
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/173606/Intel+Pentium+G3258+Anniversary+Edition+Box%2C+1150.article

RAM
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

SSD
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/169180/Crucial+MX100+SSD+128GB+%282%2C5%2C+7mm%29.article

Case
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Mini/172044/FRACTAL+DESIGN+Geh%C3%A4use+Core+1100+black.article

Power Supply
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/300+-+400+Watts/74207/Corsair+VS+Serie+VS350%2C+Non-Modular%2C+80%2B.article

Comes to ~€320.

Any suggestions from others would be welcome, havent been keeping up so there may be better parts for the money. If you up the budget, would recommend going to and i3

IrlMonk

I have a TR2-550 PP Thermaltake Psu installed.
The mobo you suggest appears to have only 1 usb2 and 1 usb3!
I also have an i3 q8200 Cpu

Ninjah Tigah

2 x USB 3.0 + 4 x USB 2.0 + ( 2 x USB 3.0 + 4 x USB 2.0 via headers )

IrlMonk

When I checked it first it only had 1xusb2 & 1xusb3!!
I'm using my s3 here so maybe I'm not reading or writing correctly :-)

Lu Tze

There are usb ports on the motherboard (at the back of the computer), you connect the two on the front of the case internally to the motherboard.

IrlMonk

Lu Tze wrote: »

You can get m-atx with 4 dimm slots. M-atx are often cheaper than the atx equivalent board, the only thing you are loosing is a few pci slots, 4 is enough for most!

With the case size i gave do you think an m-atx would fit the case?
The spec of the mobo doesn't mention m-atx!

http://www.ascendtech.us/ecs-mcp73vt-pm-lga775-ddr2-motherboard_i_mbecs4mcp73vtpm.aspx

IrlMonk

Here's what i'm thinking after your suggestions:
Do you think that would do the job?

MOBO:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/81331/Gigabyte+B85M-D3H%2C+mATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

CPU:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/173606/Intel+Pentium+G3258+Anniversary+Edition+Box%2C+1150.article

RAM:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

SSD:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/169180/Crucial+MX100+SSD+128GB+%282%2C5%2C+7mm%29.article

Ninjah Tigah

IrlMonk wrote: »

Here's what i'm thinking after your suggestions:
Do you think that would do the job?

MOBO:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/81331/Gigabyte+B85M-D3H%2C+mATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

CPU:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+1150/173606/Intel+Pentium+G3258+Anniversary+Edition+Box%2C+1150.article

RAM:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

SSD:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Solid-State-Disk/169180/Crucial+MX100+SSD+128GB+%282%2C5%2C+7mm%29.article

Aye! That oughta do it.

Adrian J Lynch

Build

IrlMonk

Will the existing heatsink fan mount correctly onto the new mobo?
Do they have a universal standard mounting design?

IrlMonk

Adrian J Lynch wrote: »

Build

Are you recommending a new build?

Ninjah Tigah

IrlMonk wrote: »

Will the existing heatsink fan mount correctly onto the new mobo?
Do they have a universal standard mounting design?

A new stock cooler should come with the actual processor. If the motherboard supports the processor then the cooler will fit the motherboard.

IrlMonk

Will the existing heatsink fan mount onto the new mobo?

Exisitng Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q8200 socket supported : LGA775

New Intel Pentium G3258 Anniversary Edition Box, 1150 socket supported : LGA1150

IrlMonk

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

A new stock cooler should come with the actual processor. If the motherboard supports the processor then the cooler will fit the motherboard.

So the existing fan attached to the CPU is only for that socket? The new CPU will have a stock cooler (fan) supplied in the box?

IrlMonk

If i overclock the CPU will the stock cooler suffice?

Ninjah Tigah

An LGA775 cooler will not fit on a LGA1150 motherboard.

The new CPU comes with a stock cooler(http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/880/i7_roundup-025.jpg) you just simply clip the stock cooler into the motherboard over the top of the cpu heatsink(like so http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/201206/install1155_DSCF3481.jpg)

The current cooler for your LGA775 will only fit on an LGA775 motherboard.

Edit: Fixed my nooby mistake with the BBCode. Links should now work.

Ninjah Tigah

If you're planning on overclocking, I'd go for an aftermarket cooler.

Ninjah Tigah

This cooler will fit onto nearly all motherboards and is very good and able to handle overclocks.

- http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Intel+AMD/59387/Cooler+Master+Hyper+212+EVO++-+Intel+AMD.article

IrlMonk

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

An LGA775 cooler will not fit on a LGA1150 motherboard.

The new CPU comes with a stock cooler(http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/880/i7_roundup-025.jpg) you just simply clip the stock cooler into the motherboard over the top of the cpu heatsink(like so http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/201206/install1155_DSCF3481.jpg)

The current cooler for your LGA775 will only fit on an LGA775 motherboard.

PAGES CANNOT BE FOUND.

But i think i understand it now, thanks

Ninjah Tigah

Fixed links and you're most welcome.

IrlMonk

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

This cooler will fit onto nearly all motherboards and is very good and able to handle overclocks.

- http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Intel+AMD/59387/Cooler+Master+Hyper+212+EVO++-+Intel+AMD.article

Is it worth overclocking CPU's?
What is the chances of frying the cpu if i used the stock cooler?

Ninjah Tigah

IrlMonk wrote: »

Is it worth overclocking CPU's?

Well, that's an entirely subjective thing. From my point of view, yes... If you do it right.

It depends on how long you intend to be using the processor. If you're planning on having the processor for the next 5+ years(which would mean this cpu would be, then I wouldn't overclock heavily. If it's more a case of just having it for 2 years or so then sure, overclock it heavily. As I said, it depends on whether or not you do it right. If you go too far with the overclock you can potentially destroy your processor but in order to do that you'd have to be incredibly reckless or just have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

To be perfectly honest, I don't frequently overclock my hardware, just no need for me. So I think if you're going to get advice on overclocking etc it'd be best to get it from someone who has more experience with doing that. There's a section forum for overclocking and modding if you would want to post your questions on there.

Forum incase you want to check it out: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=85

Ninjah Tigah

In relation to whether or not you'd fry it using the stock cooler.

I haven't done an overclock on a stock cooler as I've always been very cautious of going near them when I don't need to.

If you're talking about without an overclock, there's very very little chance of frying the processor at stock.

IrlMonk

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

Well, that's an entirely subjective thing. From my point of view, yes... If you do it right.

It depends on how long you intend to be using the processor. If you're planning on having the processor for the next 5+ years(which would mean this cpu would be, then I wouldn't overclock heavily. If it's more a case of just having it for 2 years or so then sure, overclock it heavily. As I said, it depends on whether or not you do it right. If you go too far with the overclock you can potentially destroy your processor but in order to do that you'd have to be incredibly reckless or just have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

To be perfectly honest, I don't frequently overclock my hardware, just no need for me. So I think if you're going to get advice on overclocking etc it'd be best to get it from someone who has more experience with doing that. There's a section forum for overclocking and modding if you would want to post your questions on there.

Forum incase you want to check it out: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=85

Your a gent, thanks.
I see the Intel Pentium G3258 comes unlocked! and i think i would want to overclock it due to the performances which is required with the program i will be running.
This CPU and this setup is just to get me up and running initially, i do plan in the future to build a far superior unit once the cash situation changes.

Also, is the mobo you suggested an overclockable board? and how can you tell if a board is overclockable or not?

IrlMonk

I also bought a cheap china imported heatsink compound on adverts.ie (HC-151)
Is this compound good enough or would you recomend a different one instead?

Ninjah Tigah

Also, is the mobo you suggested an overclockable board? and how can you tell if a board is overclockable or not?

I wouldn't overclock on that motherboard. Generally if you're going to overclock you'll need a z chipset (z87, z97) and I wouldn't have the best knowledge on that topic. ASUS unlocked B85, H81, H87, H97 but I still wouldn't overclock on them.

I'm sure other people on the forums would have far more knowledge on this topic as I don't have much, my apologies.

As for that compound, I would say it would be just fine. I've used some very very cheap compound before and it worked just fine so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

IrlMonk

Grand thanks for your help. It is very much appreciated.
So, if i stick with the mobo and cpu that was suggested then there is no need to get the aftermarket cooler as the stock cooler will do just fine as i would not be overclocking on that mobo.
But if i was to overclock the cpu then i would need an asus unlocked board or a z chipset and an aftermarket cooler!

And if i'm not going to overclock would i not be better off with the Intel Pentium G3440 which would be slightly faster than the Intel Pentium G3258

cheers

Ninjah Tigah

IrlMonk wrote: »

Grand thanks for your help. It is very much appreciated.
So, if i stick with the mobo and cpu that was suggested then there is no need to get the aftermarket cooler as the stock cooler will do just fine as i would not be overclocking on that mobo.
But if i was to overclock the cpu then i would need an asus unlocked board or a z chipset and an aftermarket cooler!

cheers

No problems at all.

Yeah, there wouldn't be much need for an aftermarket cooler if you're not overclocking.

Also, that's what I'd be recommending, I'm not entirely sure have any other companies unlocked their other chipsets, Asus are the only one I'm sure of.

As I said though, I'm sure there are plenty of people on the forum with a knowledge of overclocking etc, I just don't wish to deceive you by pretending that I know a lot about it when I don't. Best of luck with your computer. If there's anything I can answer fully in the thread I'll be sure to reply. ^^

IrlMonk

Okay Thanks again.
I might just go with an asus mobo and an aftermarket cooler. That way if i need to overclock the cpu then the option is there.
I will think about it over the next day or two.

Cheers