ENG v NZ, 08.11.2014, 1430, @THOR™

Swiwi.

ENGLAND: 15 Mike Brown, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Brad Barritt, 12 Kyle Eastmond, 11 Jonny May, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Danny Care, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 Tom Wood, 5 Courtney Lawes, 4 Dave Attwood, 3 David Wilson, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler
Replacements: 16 Rob Webber, 17 Matt Mullan, 18 Kieran Brookes, 19 George Kruis, 20 Ben Morgan, 21 Ben Youngs, 22 George Ford, 23 Anthony Watson

NEW ZEALAND: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Samuel Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.
Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Patrick Tuipulotu, 20 Liam Messam, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Ryan Crotty.

Date: Saturday, November 8
Kickoff: 14:30 local (GMT)
Venue: Twickenham, London
Referee: Our good mate Nige (Wales)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Dudley Phillips (Ireland)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Tonight I have writer's block. I have this bloody assignment to get done before 2.30pm on Saturday, otherwise I'll be letting Losty Dublin down, and I promised awec I'd do it. The headlines are dominated by the teams who wear green, and somehow - somehow - I have to get people interested in a match with a team wearing the blackest shade of black ever...and the other wearing the whitest shade of white (with a hint of rose).

Luckily, the match is at Twickers, the 2 teams are both pretty handy...and it's a nice little curtain raiser to the match that every rugby fan is eagerly anticipating at 1730: Scotland v Argentina.

The Teams
So, without further ado, let me introduce the 2 teams. Starting with England, and much like Ireland, they are fairly ravaged by injury. England at full strength, especially at Twickenham, are a very dangerous beast, but without Cole, Launchbury and especially Corbisiero, that tight 5 just doesn't seem so daunting. It's a moot point which team will be the better scrummaging unit, but for all-round skills I think Crockett and Franks have the edge on Marler and especially Wilson. Hartley, although not so loved round these parts, is an excellent rake, but I must say Dane Coles has gone from journeyman => fringe All Black => decent hooker => pretty damn good in a few short months. His lineout throwing has been good all year, his scrumming is fine, and like Sean Cronin, he can be pretty lethal in the loose.

At lock, Lawes is very athletic, and brings some "mongrel" factor. I don't know much about Atwood, except he's likely getting no sleep at the moment. Maybe Brodie Retallick can tell me more...NZ's 2nd row is currently a real source of strength: Whitelock is pretty imperious in the air, and is up there with Matfield for poaching opposition throws, while Retallick must be challenging Duane Vermeulen for the IRB player of the year award. Like the energiser battery, he just keeps on going and going.

The backrow battle will be intriguing. IMO the English backrow came out on top both in 2012 and in 2013, they are sort of backrow NZ doesn't like: big strong lads who are happy just to make hay at the breakdown, and not too fussed about fancy moves out the back. Kind of SA-esque. To a certain extent, I think Vunipola is a bit of a one-trick pony, but his one trick (breaking the gainline at will) is pretty good. For NZ, Kaino is back to being the accepted frontline 6, but hasn't yet recaptured the glorious heights of 2011. On the other hand, McCaw is having (IMO) a wonderful international season, some of his steals in the last couple of games have been just excellent.

Out the back, and the English halves pairing need no introduction. Hansen seems to be Jekyll and Hyde: one moment Cruden is Out and Barrett is In, the next moment it's the reverse. For what it's worth I think it's the correct call, but as anyone who has watched any Super Rugby will know, Cruden can be prone to horror shows from the tee. Farrell is generally pretty accurate, especially at home.

The midfield is intriguing. England's midfield got (badly) exposed in June, and with Tualagi once again ruled out, a lot of responsibility falls on Barritt to nurture Eastmond. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind at all that SBW will run at Eastmond, and look to get one of those offloads away to a charging Savea. It's quite a big call to slot SBW straight back in, but once again I tend to agree. Fekitoa is constantly improving but he still looks a bit lost at times. Crotty just doesn't bring enough Pacific X-factor, Ma'a is injured, and Carter is a flyhalf, not an international 12.

NZ should have a definite edge in the back 3. Brown, after his 6N heroics, had a bit of a flat tour downunder, May is - dare I say it - a bit pedestrian, and the great unknown (at least for me) is the new Fijian lad. I've only seen a few highlights on youtube, but aside from being (Usain Bolt) fast, I have no idea whether the guy has any positional sense, can tackle, field the up 'n' unders, or kick. He could announce himself to the rugby world on Saturday. NZ has the Mr Reliable Ben Smith, the kicking prowess of Dagg, and the raw Polynesian power of Savea, who is running on average at 1 try per test match played.

Tactics
I'm not sure with that pack that England can expect to win a tight forward-based arm wrestle, so they will need to be a bit expansive, which in fairness they have made a decent crack at in recent times. They should definitely try and slow NZ's breakdown ball down to the maximum, and try and get controlled aggression from Hartley and Lawes. Either of those 2 getting cards for England would spell disaster IMO. NZ used to be a bit vulnerable to the maul, but have actually nullified all attempts at that quite well this season. Farrell will need to be on-song with the boot, and the midfield will need to at least defend well, and I'm told Eastmond can be handy on attack. The back 3 will need to kick and field well, all of Savea, Smith & Dagg can create tries out of nothing.

For NZ, the forwards will need to front up, the loosies will need to clear quick ruck ball, and there needs to be a bit more variation. How many times this season have we seen Retallick with the quick pop pass to Franks? 27 times I'm telling you! Cruden and SBW have been an excellent combination in the past, and if NZ get front-foot ball watch out.

The biggest advantage might be the bench. NZ has genuinely turned the bench into a weapon, with every player expected to add something when entering the fray. All of the players listed bring something, but perhaps none more than Beauden "Beaudy" Barrett. I barely recognise the English bench (the Bens aside), so I will need English Lurker or such to enlighten me.

Ref watch
It's Nige! Yeah! Enjoy Poite...

How I see this going
If England had their best front 5 and Tualagi, I would be very nervous. However, I reckon with NZ pretty much at full strength (you can argue about Woodcock, Nonu and Jane, maybe less so Carter), and with the team rested, rotated, and ready NZ should edge it by about 10 I reckon. I mean, the new jerseys alone are worth 5 points. There we go, and look!, not one mention of the RWC. D'oh...

Tox56

NZ have everything to lose here, another win and everyone forgets about this match, but if they lose they'll give England a massive amount more belief in the RWC if the two sides meet

Yeah_Right

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ref watch
It's Nige! Yeah! Enjoy Poite...

Great write up Swiwi. The above bit is my favourite part though. I love having Nige reffing our games.

I really hope that comment doesn't come back to bite me.

Cheese Wagstaff

Will be interested to see how Watson gets on coming off the bench. Easily one of the most exciting prospects that England have had coming up in a while. I'd have thought he might have started ahead of Nowell or May for the 6N, but it wasn't to be. He has a very bright future ahead of him, lightning fast and an awkward step that you know is coming, but you can't stop it.

English Lurker

Swiwi. wrote: »

I don't know much about Atwood, except he's likely getting no sleep at the moment. Maybe Brodie Retallick can tell me more...

He's called Michael and that's all you need to know.


Attwood's actually a bit of a sore point for a lot of England fans I know, he should have been getting this chance a lot earlier. Much as Geoff, Joe and Michael have been great for us, they're all 5 locks - oversized back-rows who are great at the lineout.

Attwood's a 4. He's been the best grunt lock in England for about two years. Bath's scrum and maul mysteriously picks up and deteriorates depending on whether he's on the pitch. He makes hard yards and can drive Billy Vunipola back one on one. He's the sort of guy we've been screaming out for to add a bit of brute to our pack and, if he can transfer his skills to international rugby quickly, he could be the difference up front.

Which is good, because if England don't get an edge on up front, I just don't see how they can win.

Swiwi.

English Lurker wrote: »

He's called Michael and that's all you need to know.


Attwood's actually a bit of a sore point for a lot of England fans I know, he should have been getting this chance a lot earlier. Much as Geoff, Joe and Michael have been great for us, they're all 5 locks - oversized back-rows who are great at the lineout.

Attwood's a 4. He's been the best grunt lock in England for about two years. Bath's scrum and maul mysteriously picks up and deteriorates depending on whether he's on the pitch. He makes hard yards and can drive Billy Vunipola back one on one. He's the sort of guy we've been screaming out for to add a bit of brute to our pack and, if he can transfer his skills to international rugby quickly, he could be the difference up front.

Which is good, because if England don't get an edge on up front, I just don't see how they can win.

Good old Austin Healy agrees with you: he has given Attwood a higher rating than Retallick. Must be some player so...

S12b

What's the story with Corbs, Tom Youngs, Parling and Dan Coles??? It seems like they have barely played since the Lions

bmwguy

English Lurker wrote: »

He's called Michael and that's all you need to know.


Attwood's actually a bit of a sore point for a lot of England fans I know, he should have been getting this chance a lot earlier. Much as Geoff, Joe and Michael have been great for us, they're all 5 locks - oversized back-rows who are great at the lineout.

Attwood's a 4. He's been the best grunt lock in England for about two years. Bath's scrum and maul mysteriously picks up and deteriorates depending on whether he's on the pitch. He makes hard yards and can drive Billy Vunipola back one on one. He's the sort of guy we've been screaming out for to add a bit of brute to our pack and, if he can transfer his skills to international rugby quickly, he could be the difference up front.

Which is good, because if England don't get an edge on up front, I just don't see how they can win.

I played rugby all my life, whats the difference between a 4 and a 5? Is it not just left and right or is there more a "type of player" that suits 4 and suits 5?I know the difference in requirements between a 1 and a 3, a 6 and a 7, a 12 and a 13 and between 11 and 14. Genuinely interested!

English Lurker

bmwguy wrote: »

I played rugby all my life, whats the difference between a 4 and a 5? Is it not just left and right or is there more a "type of player" that suits 4 and suits 5?I know the difference in requirements between a 1 and a 3, a 6 and a 7, a 12 and a 13 and between 11 and 14. Genuinely interested!

Semi-traditionally - not sure everywhere does this, but plenty do - the 4 goes behind the tighthead prop, and is expected to be the stronger man; the 5 goes behind the loosehead prop, and is expected to be the better lineout jumper. The idea being that the tighthead is more pivotal to the scrum, so you put your best scrummaging lock (i.e. usually the strongest and heaviest) behind him.

The rest of their roles comes from that. Your 4, or tighthead lock, will be strong and heavy, so you want him at the heart of your maul, doing your fringe defence and so on. The 5 will be relatively light and probably quite pacy due to having really powerful legs, so he'll usually operate a bit looser - maybe as a midfield shooter in defence.

Of course, that's just how I've learned it, not the universal truth.

S12b wrote: »

What's the story with Corbs, Tom Youngs, Parling and Dan Coles??? It seems like they have barely played since the Lions

I'm not honestly sure with some of them it's been so long... Corbs has had a long standing knee complaint, which they say is now fixed, but he's injured himself somewhere else. Not sure what's up with Youngs. Cole did something to his neck around the start of last 6N, he's back this weekend in the LV Cup. Parling played most of last season but has had to take time off due to concussions.

Swiwi. wrote: »

Good old Austin Healy agrees with you: he has given Attwood a higher rating than Retallick. Must be some player so...

I answer your questions and this is how you repay me, comparing my opinions with Austin Healy...

Swiwi.

NZ loved the 4 vs 5 lock with Thorn & Whitelock then Romano & Whitelock. But with Romano's injury, the combination of Retallick & Whitelock is more a 5 & 5. Both ways have their strengths and weaknesses.

Teferi

Nice write up mate. As per usual I will be cheering against the All Blacks as that thing they do where they always win is terribly boring. On a neutral ground I can see NZ running away with this but in Twickers with the crowd behind the English it will be closer. New Zealand by a score, maybe putting a buffer on it in the last few minutes. If England can keep it tight then the crowd may push them over the line by 3 points.

bmwguy

Thanks swiwi and English lurker, I was aware of the different types of 2nd rows, and agree with you on the descriptions but hadn't heard of them referred to as a typical 4 or typical 5 before. Probably is more of traditional thing I agree I think the way the game is going we will see more 5s than 4s. Fast rangy runners light(ish) and excellent lineout athletes. Mick galwey would have been a 4 i suppose according to this. Anyway, sorry to derail your thread, up the blacks!

Swiwi.

Teferi wrote: »

Nice write up mate. As per usual I will be cheering against the All Blacks as that thing they do where they always win is terribly boring. On a neutral ground I can see NZ running away with this but in Twickers with the crowd behind the English it will be closer. New Zealand by a score, maybe putting a buffer on it in the last few minutes. If England can keep it tight then the crowd may push them over the line by 3 points.

Yeah, I'd expect most neutrals will be cheering on the English, certainly in the NH at least. There is no such thing as an easy game at Twickenham. Should be a good match anyway.

Losty Dublin

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, I'd expect most neutrals will be cheering on the English, certainly in the NH at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-CqFh7xvDQ

thebaz

Swiwi. wrote: »

ENGLAND:
Referee: Our good mate Nige (Wales)
[

after last year - thats my favourite bit (I'm a sore loser , he's still in my black book)

ps should be a good game , great write up BTW

Journeyman_1

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, I'd expect most neutrals will be cheering on the English, certainly in the NH at least. There is no such thing as an easy game at Twickenham. Should be a good match anyway.

I shall be rooting for NZ also, and not even because of some "I hate the english" type thing

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, I'd expect most neutrals will be cheering on the English, certainly in the NH at least. There is no such thing as an easy game at Twickenham. Should be a good match anyway.

Haha. You've obviously never seen been to an Irish pub for a NZ vs England game.

connemara man

.ak wrote: »

Haha. You've obviously never seen been to an Irish pub for an anyone in any sport vs England game.

FYP :P

Judgement Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbF4NG9_x7w

The Twickenham crowd can try and drown out the Haka but the result was another English loss. Roll on 5 wins in a row!

Wales v Aus is on BBC - who is showing England v NZ?

efb

Sky sports 2.

The hyperbole is nauseating

Taco Corp

Deleted User wrote: »

Wales v Aus is on BBC - who is showing England v NZ?

Sky sports 2

Captain_Hindsight

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Sky sports 2

Ah well.

Am I woing in saying that this fixture was usually on BBC / ITV in years gone by?

Diabhal Beag

Well that was something

ThisRegard

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Well that was something

Sky Go is miles behind so, was thinking the game is starting late.

errlloyd

I'd say its pretty motivating to hear your fans singing over the Haka.

sydneybound

Shame they drowned out the haka

sydthebeat

Barnes
"This could be a dress rehearsal for the world cup final".....

Ah Jaysus stu....

bilston

Loved that from the England crowd

Teferi

sydneybound wrote: »

Shame they drowned out the haka

I love when they drown out the Haka!

Diabhal Beag

I do like any sort of Haka response tbh regardless from players or fans.

Tox56

Pretty slick NZ jersey it has to be said

errlloyd

Great kick to be fair

bilston

Lovely kick from Farrell

bilston

What a try!!

vienne86

Magnificent try from England. Johnny May. Stunning run.

errlloyd

I had him in my fantasy team for a whole six nations, and he never ****ing did that

What a try, my god.

Journeyman_1

how???

Fantastic try!

vienne86

May got arount Dagg relatively easily.

Kiwi_knock

Brilliant try, great pace

CatFromHue

Ha, where did that try come from?

vienne86

Tricky conversion, but Farrell misses. Pity.

LuckyGent88

Great try. Dagg left for dead

bilston

vienne86 wrote: »

May got arount Dagg relatively easily.

Watching the replay you have to question Dagg in particular, Smith got flat footed but still that was brillant from May.

Taco Corp

Conrad Smith won't be looking forward to seeing that again

sydthebeat

Tut tut Conrad. ...

PeteFalk78

Dagg sickened. Pointed at May to go down the line and totally burned him.

vienne86

Lovely box kick from Care there.....nearly got May away again.

errlloyd

That had to be a try

vienne86

England very alert and quick, really up for this. Good match in prospect here.