Dart Usage

youknowwho

Interesting report in the Indo during the week:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/new-160m-train-line-is-failing-to-get-passengers-30719976.html

"◊ The busiest train in the country that day - with 1,444 passengers - was the 8am DART from Greystones in Co Wicklow to Malahide in Co Dublin."

Maybe now they might improve the access and egress as surely 1000+ people trying to enter and alighting passengers exiting a station with one door in a short space of time can't be appropriate or safe.

eigrod

youknowwho wrote: »

Interesting report in the Indo during the week:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/new-160m-train-line-is-failing-to-get-passengers-30719976.html

"◊ The busiest train in the country that day - with 1,444 passengers - was the 8am DART from Greystones in Co Wicklow to Malahide in Co Dublin."

Maybe now they might improve the access and egress as surely 1000+ people trying to enter and alighting passengers exiting a station with one door in a short space of time can't be appropriate or safe.

All true. The report also shows how much commuters in 'the greater Dublin area' are subsidising underused and redundant services in rural areas and are facing increased fares each year as a result.

Heisenberg1

youknowwho wrote: »

Interesting report in the Indo during the week:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/new-160m-train-line-is-failing-to-get-passengers-30719976.html

"◊ The busiest train in the country that day - with 1,444 passengers - was the 8am DART from Greystones in Co Wicklow to Malahide in Co Dublin."

Maybe now they might improve the access and egress as surely 1000+ people trying to enter and alighting passengers exiting a station with one door in a short space of time can't be appropriate or safe.

But that report does not say that 1000+ passageners boarded at GS they had census personal in each station on the DART line that figure for that train is for the total amount of passengers that boarded that train along the line.

vinpaul

Well pointed out. How many would a full train from greystones hold?
Certainly no where near 1440

Heisenberg1

vinpaul wrote: »

Well pointed out. How many would a full train from greystones hold?
Certainly no where near 1440

Depending on the size of the train I would say an 8 piece train would hold up to 1000 maybe more I'm not too sure of the loads to be honest.

beepbeeprichie

eigrod wrote: »

All true. The report also shows how much commuters in 'the greater Dublin area' are subsidising underused and redundant services in rural areas and are facing increased fares each year as a result.

Erm, Greystones was considered rural a few years ago and only in recent years got the dart service. Apart from peak commuter times Greystones dart services are not busy, maybe that would also contribute to increased fares??

youknowwho

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

But that report does not say that 1000+ passageners boarded at GS they had census personal in each station on the DART line that figure for that train is for the total amount of passengers that boarded that train along the line.

Good point, I didn't understand how the census was undertaken.

However having got that Dart myself a few times I note that there are people having to standing from Greystones which is why I go for the earlier train.

Given a Dart carriage (depending on class of coach) holds approx 80 seating and same again standing with a squeeze, I recon a 12 car Dart leaving Greystones has approx 960 seated alone so it is likely to have in excess of 1000 with only a small number of standing passengers. Obviously this swells from Bray onwards.

Captain Chaos

DARTs are 8 car max with each coach having 64 seats. You can get about 100 standing on a coach.

loyatemu

that train is the "Hogwarts Express" that takes all the school kids to Killiney, Dalkey and Booterstown. As Greystones has the highest number of secondary school kids attending schools outside their hometown in the country, its not surprising that train is busy, but the numbers might decline as Temple Carrig school increases in size.

Annasopra

youknowwho wrote: »

Interesting report in the Indo during the week:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/new-160m-train-line-is-failing-to-get-passengers-30719976.html

"◊ The busiest train in the country that day - with 1,444 passengers - was the 8am DART from Greystones in Co Wicklow to Malahide in Co Dublin."

Maybe now they might improve the access and egress as surely 1000+ people trying to enter and alighting passengers exiting a station with one door in a short space of time can't be appropriate or safe.

Theres no way almost 1500 people got on in Greystones.

Annasopra

beepbeeprichie wrote: »

Erm, Greystones was considered rural a few years ago and only in recent years got the dart service. Apart from peak commuter times Greystones dart services are not busy, maybe that would also contribute to increased fares??

The reason IR give for the increased fare is the length of the track between Bray and Greystones. A journey into the city is I think 25 km and the distance between Bray and Greystones is 6. So bray to greystones is approx 25% of journey. Those are rough figures.

I think its crazy myself that you pay 6.50 return bray to dublin and 10.50 return greystones to dublin

loyatemu

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I think its crazy myself that you pay 6.50 return bray to dublin and 10.50 return greystones to dublin

If you have a leap card it's only 9.00 (and 9.20 is the max daily Dart fare on Leap, so any additional journeys you make are virtually free).

Plastik

I have been getting the Dart from Greystones to Tara regularly, 3/4/5 times a week, and I can safely say that I have never, ever, failed to get a seat on the 8am train. Certainly, if you want to try and get the 7.50/7.55 diesel that comes through from Wexford there's a good chance that you might have to stand all the way in, but not on the Dart.

I'm ditching the annual tax saver card for 2015 and going to cycle in 3/4 times a week. Certainly not an option for a lot of people but free, and for me, faster than the dart.

ckeego

loyatemu wrote: »

that train is the "Hogwarts Express" that takes all the school kids to Killiney, Dalkey and Booterstown. As Greystones has the highest number of secondary school kids attending schools outside their hometown in the country, its not surprising that train is busy, but the numbers might decline as Temple Carrig school increases in size.

Well said..Perhaps the powers that be with the brains like a pea would consider putting on an 815 train from Greystones?

I really find it hard to believe that stations much closer to town get more frequent a service. That said, I would be seriously wired off getting on at Blackrock every day, paying my fare or Leap card and having no hope of a seat..

The fares are so much higher from Greystones with a fraction of the service (and don't even start me on the fact that they have RAISED the fares despite oil prices falling by 22% since January 2014)

They also have this REALLY frustrating habit on that 8am train of putting carriages on with these "split seats" that frankly, are a chiropractors wet dream-they are different levels, tilted and unstable..shocking.:mad::mad:

ckeego

Plastik wrote: »

I have been getting the Dart from Greystones to Tara regularly, 3/4/5 times a week, and I can safely say that I have never, ever, failed to get a seat on the 8am train. Certainly, if you want to try and get the 7.50/7.55 diesel that comes through from Wexford there's a good chance that you might have to stand all the way in, but not on the Dart.

I'm ditching the annual tax saver card for 2015 and going to cycle in 3/4 times a week. Certainly not an option for a lot of people but free, and for me, faster than the dart.

I'm with Plastik on this one, particularly during the Summer:)

That said, the best I have done is equalling the DART time-more training required!!

LEIN

ckeego wrote: »

Well said..Perhaps the powers that be with the brains like a pea would consider putting on an 815 train from Greystones?

I really find it hard to believe that stations much closer to town get more frequent a service. That said, I would be seriously wired off getting on at Blackrock every day, paying my fare or Leap card and having no hope of a seat..

The fares are so much higher from Greystones with a fraction of the service (and don't even start me on the fact that they have RAISED the fares despite oil prices falling by 22% since January 2014)

They also have this REALLY frustrating habit on that 8am train of putting carriages on with these "split seats" that frankly, are a chiropractors wet dream-they are different levels, tilted and unstable..shocking.:mad::mad:

Not possible with the single line to Greystones.

ckeego

LEIN wrote: »

Not possible with the single line to Greystones.

Ok.. But why the crap seats so?

And if there was some more space/carriages on the 750am mainline train, it may also help.

I'm still chuckling at the Hogwartts express comment..

loyatemu

ckeego wrote: »

And if there was some more space/carriages on the 750am mainline train, it may also help.

some of the stations to the south can't take longer trains (Rathdrum I think has particularly short platforms with no space to lengthen them) - this puts a restriction on the length of Wexford/Rosslare services.

They could run an extra service from Greystones @ 0810 but they'd need to either leave a Dart in Greystones overnight, or run an extra one out here earlier in the morning.

darter

LEIN wrote: »

Not possible with the single line to Greystones.

It is possible, if they use the point in the middle where there are two sets of tracks as a passing point. This is done in Switzerland on a lot of the alpine railways.

But, given the current state of the railway infrastructure, especially the signalling, I am not sure I would trust them to get it right... At the time when Ireland built lots of motorways, there was no investment in the railways. Should have done exactly the opposite to promote rail travel and discourage car usage.

LEIN

darter wrote: »

It is possible, if they use the point in the middle where there are two sets of tracks as a passing point. This is done in Switzerland on a lot of the alpine railways.

But, given the current state of the railway infrastructure, especially the signalling, I am not sure I would trust them to get it right... At the time when Ireland built lots of motorways, there was no investment in the railways. Should have done exactly the opposite to promote rail travel and discourage car usage.

Agreed. Would take massive investment and I'm not sure IE would be all that interest for just for Greystones. Unfortunately

Plastik

Here's a tip for you ckeego, look down the line of carriages and if you see one with the windows that don't open then head for that. The older carriages and the ones that have the full solid windows don't have those horrible cramped, tilted forward seats. There's one of the solid window carriages on the trains quite often with the rest being the other style, not always mind, but often enough.

ckeego

Plastik wrote: »

Here's a tip for you ckeego, look down the line of carriages and if you see one with the windows that don't open then head for that. The older carriages and the ones that have the full solid windows don't have those horrible cramped, tilted forward seats. There's one of the solid window carriages on the trains quite often with the rest being the other style, not always mind, but often enough.

Good man!

You can delete that post now!!!:D:D:D

loyatemu

Plastik wrote: »

Here's a tip for you ckeego, look down the line of carriages and if you see one with the windows that don't open then head for that. The older carriages and the ones that have the full solid windows don't have those horrible cramped, tilted forward seats. There's one of the solid window carriages on the trains quite often with the rest being the other style, not always mind, but often enough.

you can also tell from the roof of the carriages - the ones with the really tight seats have a rounded roof. How somebody in Irish Rail signed off on those seats is a mystery - they obviously know they're not suitable as the next set of carriages they ordered had different seats.

It is possible, if they use the point in the middle where there are two sets of tracks as a passing point. This is done in Switzerland on a lot of the alpine railways.

there's no double track anywhere between Bray and Greystones - 2 trains can run in the same direction but obviously not in opposite directions.

beepbeeprichie

loyatemu wrote: »

If you have a leap card it's only 9.00 (and 9.20 is the max daily Dart fare on Leap, so any additional journeys you make are virtually free).

Holy smokes, assuming you work 5 days a week,48 weeks a year that's a minimum cost of 2160 Euro to use the dart. Fares keep going up because not many people would be willing to pay that price, I wouldn't dream of using it as I am paying for a car every year regardless so may as well use it......added petrol bill would be no where near 2 grand.
I can never get my head around the logic of charging more for distance travelled on public transport. A dart will run from Greystones to howth regardless of it having 1 person on board or 1000. There should be a flat rate fare (about3 Euro)therefore actually making it appealing to use the service which will fill trains outside of commuter times.
Increasing customer base is the key, not increasing prices constantly.

red_bairn

loyatemu wrote:

some of the stations to the south can't take longer trains (Rathdrum I think has particularly short platforms with no space to lengthen them) - this puts a restriction on the length of Wexford/Rosslare services.

I think they can take another carriage. I got the train to Gorey every morning for a year and it had about 1/2 carriages more than the current train. I think they took one or more off because there were less travelling down that way - quite costly.

red_bairn

loyatemu wrote:

some of the stations to the south can't take longer trains (Rathdrum I think has particularly short platforms with no space to lengthen them) - this puts a restriction on the length of Wexford/Rosslare services.

I think they can take another carriage. I got the train to Gorey every morning for a year and it had about 1/2 carriages more than the current train. I think they took one or more off because there were less travelling down that way - quite costly.

red_bairn

loyatemu wrote:

How somebody in Irish Rail signed off on those seats is a mystery - they obviously know they're not suitable as the next set of carriages they ordered had different seats.

They must have got their children to try out the seats or left it up to the Japanese for their own measurements. ^^

loyatemu

beepbeeprichie wrote: »

Holy smokes, assuming you work 5 days a week,48 weeks a year that's a minimum cost of 2160 Euro to use the dart. Fares keep going up because not many people would be willing to pay that price, I wouldn't dream of using it as I am paying for a car every year regardless so may as well use it......added petrol bill would be no where near 2 grand.

there's also a weekly cap on Leap (€35.50 for the Dart) but if you are using the train daily you're much better off with an Annual ticket (€1420) which is tax-deductable bringing the cost to around €700 per year, or less than €60 a month. You'd spend a lot more than that on fuel driving into the city every day, never mind extra wear & tear on the car and the stress of sitting in traffic in Stillorgan.

beepbeeprichie

loyatemu wrote: »

there's also a weekly cap on Leap (€35.50 for the Dart) but if you are using the train daily you're much better off with an Annual ticket (€1420) which is tax-deductable bringing the cost to around €700 per year, or less than €60 a month. You'd spend a lot more than that on fuel driving into the city every day, never mind extra wear & tear on the car and the stress of sitting in traffic in Stillorgan.

Out of interest, what time do you need to leave your house in the morning, how long are peoples door to door commute times to allow for walking, parking etc

loyatemu

beepbeeprichie wrote: »

Out of interest, what time do you need to leave your house in the morning, how long are peoples door to door commute times to allow for walking, parking etc

7.50 - get the 8.00 dart, in work for 9 (actually more like 9.05 these days, leaves on the line etc).

red_bairn

beepbeeprichie wrote:

Out of interest, what time do you need to leave your house in the morning, how long are peoples door to door commute times to allow for walking, parking etc

15mins from Rathdown to the station. 50mins into Pearse and 6mins walk from there to work.

youknowwho

beepbeeprichie wrote: »

Out of interest, what time do you need to leave your house in the morning, how long are peoples door to door commute times to allow for walking, parking etc

Eden Gate - IFSC
7.15 - 8.30

red_bairn

beepbeeprichie wrote:

Holy smokes, assuming you work 5 days a week,48 weeks a year that's a minimum cost of 2160 Euro to use the dart. Fares keep going up because not many people would be willing to pay that price, I wouldn't dream of using it as I am paying for a car every year regardless so may as well use it......added petrol bill would be no where near 2 grand. I can never get my head around the logic of charging more for distance travelled on public transport. A dart will run from Greystones to howth regardless of it having 1 person on board or 1000. There should be a flat rate fare (about3 Euro)therefore actually making it appealing to use the service which will fill trains outside of commuter times. Increasing customer base is the key, not increasing prices constantly.

It won't happen. crooked businessmen like the government and banks.

Anyway it is 35€ cap a week for the Leap card although I don't think they have made a monthly cap. so it isn't 2160 for the year.