Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

mosstin

Mr Alan wrote: »

My point is he seems to be trying to quash any criticism of Rodgers in this thread.

So while very few people (if any) are calling for Rodgers head, he is deserving of very real criticism for the way the team is performing this season, his transfer record & his tactical inflexibility. Some people here don't seem to want to allow that criticism.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could defend him from criticism right now. He's made several errors, not least a pointless (pun intended) persistence with one up front, but having coaxed a solid performance from a fresh starting XI on Tuesday night, and to then reinstate those who performed so abysmally last weekend.... the mind boggles.

mav79

MD1990 wrote: »

Who could replace Rodgers anyway?
He done a great job last year he deserves some time to try to get things right imo.

My problem with Rodgers this year is he seems to be hoping things will improve rather than righting any problems we have in the team. Same formations, same subs and same under-performing players picked each week.

Agent Coulson

I have not read anyone on here say Rodgers should be sacked!!!!!!!

Yet if some of us show any sign of criticism towards him we seem to be hit with "Should Rodgers be sacked?"

If you ask that question and can't see the manager deserves criticism for not fixing the defence or other glaring mistakes from last season.

Well then I don't know or have an answer for you!

I do not want Rodgers sacked as of right now come 3rd round of the FA Cup I may feel different.

mosstin

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Completely written him off. Top level defendes make good decisons. He is just a front foot defender who tries to win everying no matter how improbable. He seems to completely lack any kind of good decision making power instead relying solely on his ability to be proactive. Mostly as a defender you need to weigh up danger and make good considered decisions to the best course of action. Lovren just wants to head straight towards putting out fires with no forethought..

Completely? Christ. He's been piss poor but you can't completely write off a player after a third of a season.

djPSB

Criticism of Rodgers is justified.

But there's a difference between being critical and disrespectful.

Last seasons performance means he should be given the benefit of the doubt and time to put things right.

If things don't improve over the coming months then yes maybe questions will have to be asked.

All coaches go through rough patches though and should be given time to put things right.

At the end of the day, the match going fans are still very much behind Rodgers and that's all that matters really.

JohnDaniels

mosstin wrote: »

Completely? Christ. He's been piss poor but you can't completely write off a player after a third of a season.

Meh, I listened to some people before the season talking about him who claimed to have watched him since before his Southampton days who said he would fail spectacularly. Almost everything they described has been bang on. He has hardly had a good game for us since we kicked a ball competitively. He isn't some kid we bought that should be given plenty of time. He was one of the few we bought who has plenty of experience, coming into his prime, year in the league already. I expect him to be hitting the ground running. You only need to watch him closely to notice how rash he is and his complete lack of good decision making. Top defenders are far more considered. These are fundamental things to the make up of a defender that should be imbedded at his age. His will to impress was an excuse for a while but that goodwill at least for myself has passed.

Mr Alan

I think what people who say "he needs time to put it right" need to realise that he is getting time.

This is not a couple of weeks of bad form. We've been very poor for nearly 4 months and criticism has been minimal. That's the credit & good will he built up last year. Expecting much more is unreasonable.

If there's not significant signs of improvement by Christmas, I expect he'll find himself under real pressure.

mosstin

JohnDaniels wrote: »

Meh, I listened to some people before the season talking about him who claimed to have watched him since before his Southampton days who said he would fail spectacularly. Almost everything they described has been bang on. He has hardly had a good game for us since we kicked a ball competitively. He isn't some kid we bought that should be given plenty of time. He was one of the few we bought who has plenty of experience, coming into his prime, year in the league already. I expect him to be hitting the ground running. You only need to watch him closely to notice how rash he is and his complete lack of good decision making. Top defenders are far more considered. These are fundamental things to the make up of a defender that should be imbedded at his age. His will to impress was an excuse for a while but that goodwill at least for myself has passed.

Through thick and thin eh?

delw

djPSB wrote: »

Criticism of Rodgers is justified.

But there's a difference between being critical and disrespectful.

Last seasons performance means he should be given the benefit of the doubt and time to put things right.

If things don't improve over the coming months then yes maybe questions will have to be asked.

All coaches go through rough patches though and should be given time to put things right.

At the end of the day, the match going fans are still very much behind Rodgers and that's all that matters really.

We all know in the modern day it's all about results which we just are not getting but people seem to think when Sturridge comes back things will change,maybe they will time will tell but Rodgers stubbornness with one up front & the fact we seem to lose the ball or give it away cheaply in the final third needs to be addressed but does Rodgers know how to?

JohnDaniels

mosstin wrote: »

Through thick and thin eh?

What? I'm objectively talking about whether I think a player is good enough. Do you think the club makes these decisions emotionally? By all means though quote some silly rhetoric and bury your head in the sand. I'll support the players on the pitch as always when match time rolls around.

brevity

I'm really sick of losing. I'm not sure what Rodgers is trying to do but he's going to lose his job if he doesn't figure it out soon or he doesn't get some help.

djPSB

Mr Alan wrote: »

You're really on a one man Rodgers defensive aren't you?! Are you able to admit that Rodgers is doing very poor in his role this season?

You once said this about Kenny and I think the same principles apply here.

Mr Alan wrote:

The simple fact is, until the last 10 league games when we've struggled badly, Kenny has been doing a decent job. We hit a bad patch (which we've been quite unlucky during) & all of a sudden the knives are out. You'll never walk alone indeed.

tigger123

When is Sturridge due back?

Kerrigooney

Kristian Walsh,the Echo reporter and sometime TAW contributor was glassed tonight. He said he's fine tho.

Kerrigooney

tigger123 wrote: »

When is Sturridge due back?

Just before he's due to get injured again.

mosstin

JohnDaniels wrote: »

What? I'm objectively talking about whether I think a player is good enough. Do you think the club makes these decisions emotionally? By all means though quote some silly rhetoric and bury your head in the sand. I'll support the players on the pitch as always when match time rolls around.

He's played 11 league games for us and you've given up on him already. I'm not the one being silly here.

Charlie19

tigger123 wrote: »

When is Sturridge due back?

J Enrique Knee Injury no return date
D Sturridge Calf/Shin Injury 23rd Nov 14
J Saez De La Torre Groin/Pelvis Injury 6th Dec 14
M Sakho Hip/Thigh Injury 23rd Nov 14
J Flanagan Knee Injury 21st Dec 14

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php

mosstin

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Kristian Walsh,the Echo reporter and sometime TAW contributor was glassed tonight. He said he's fine tho.

He seems more pissed off about the fact that he won't make it to the chippy.

cunnifferous

Where's Kess these days? Mostly a lurker on these parts but haven't seen him posting in a while

daithijjj

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Your shout Lovren did and he was poor again.















I know, I know, nobody would look good in our defence the way we play.

I wonder how many international CB's with a good reputation will come through the club before we realise it is the linchpins of sh1te defences (Skrtel/Johnson) that are actually the issue.

At this stage im sure people are bored reading my thoughts on Skrtel. I think it would be ironic if we get to christmas or 15 /16 games with our only clean sheet being when he didnt play.

All that said, the manager is having an absolute shocker this season, even after the obvious loss of Sturridge.

We dont have Suarez and Sturridge from last season, we have Balotelli, yet we play the same way and Rodgers isnt changing it in the interim, seriously?. I think if we keep this up, Rodgers wont see the season out or a fair few upstairs wont. Too many players who have had great form for 12/18 months are playing badly, generally when that happens there are bigger issues at play.

Osmosis Jones

This international break has to be the time for Rodgers to make changes. I want to see a completely different team, in both personnel and strategy, when we travel to Palace.

Kerrigooney

mosstin wrote: »

He seems more pissed off about the fact that he won't make it to the chippy.

He does alright.

JohnDaniels

mosstin wrote: »

He's played 11 league games for us and you've given up on him already. I'm not the one being silly here.

So from all I have learned he was a bad buy before he kicked a ball for us. Everything since has confirmed that view. I don't think I've ever watched a CB who looks so out of his depth so regurally. I still think Sahko has all the base level ability to be a top defender despite him having a very mixed time at Liverpool so far. That doesn't come from any fanboy love as I'd never seen him play prior to Liverpool. My views come from more than just judging a player on games played. If I thought lovren had shown signs of things to build on I'd say it's early days but IMO we have seen Lovren. This is just the player he is. A front foot defender who when things go right for in a game can look great but over the longer term will invariably make many mistakes due to that rashness.

mosstin

JohnDaniels wrote: »

So from all I have learned he was a bad buy before he kicked a ball for us. Everything since has confirmed that view. I don't think I've ever watched a CB who looks so out of his depth so regurally. I still think Sahko has all the base level ability to be a top defender despite him having a very mixed time at Liverpool so far. That doesn't come from any fanboy love as I'd never seen him play prior to Liverpool. My views come from more than just judging a player on games played. If I thought lovren had shown signs of things to build on I'd say it's early days but IMO we have seen Lovren. This is just the player he is. A front foot defender who when things go right for in a game can look great but over the longer term will invariably make many mistakes due to that rashness.

I'm happy to give him time before judging him. It's a big step up for him. Looks like he'll struggle alright but daft to be writing him off so soon.

Turtyturd

djPSB wrote: »

Within a whisker of delivering a League title last season should buy a man a bit of time.

How much time does it buy him though? The more this season goes on, last season looks to be more and more down to Suarez's influence.

I am not advocating sacking him as I have stated already most of the issues I would have with him relate to his handling of players he doesn't want, and I actually think, somewhat surprisingly for a man with his ego he is lacking confidence, and is intimidated by trying to match up to last season. But there are still some good signs there such as the Spurs game and opening 20-30 minutes in both Madrid games and today's game.

OwaynOTT

Missed the game today or did I? Or have I not yet gone into a black hole to be there not missing the match while missing the match because I haven't went into a black hole yet to be there not missing the match...

Demosthenese

daithijjj wrote: »

I wonder how many international CB's with a good reputation will come through the club before we realise it is the linchpins of sh1te defences (Skrtel/Johnson) that are actually the issue.

At this stage im sure people are bored reading my thoughts on Skrtel. I think it would be ironic if we get to christmas or 15 /16 games with our only clean sheet being when he didnt play.

All that said, the manager is having an absolute shocker this season, even after the obvious loss of Sturridge.

We dont have Suarez and Sturridge from last season, we have Balotelli, yet we play the same way and Rodgers isnt changing it in the interim, seriously?. I think if we keep this up, Rodgers wont see the season out or a fair few upstairs wont. Too many players who have had great form for 12/18 months are playing badly, generally when that happens there are bigger issues at play.

One clean sheet doesn't really make a difference does it? I mean, if we played Toure and we got a clean sheet does that mean he automatically makes the teamsheet for every game thereafter?

Personally i don't see Skrtel as weak a link as say Johnson. Nor can i lay the blame at the feet of the 2 CB's as at the end of the day they are a cog in the machine that defends from the front.

Look at Chelsea. Would John Terry be as effective if he played for us? Probably not. He plays in a system where they are drilled to within an inch of their lives. So comfortable on the backfoot, so comfortable when the ball is in front of them. It is no accident Mourinho builds teams like this. But you place out midfield and strikers in front of John Terry and Cahill and they'll not fare too much better the way we play.

Even with Gerard/Can/Hendo in front of our defence we still leak too much space. Still make stupid decisions and still do not defend as a team. Chelsea play Hazard as a luxury player but by god he stills puts in a shift. Last season we did the same with Sterling/Coutinho they worked like dogs but we carry too many players in these games. Thats why we leak goals.

I think Rodgers is trying to tinker with the system and players, Can for example was a refreshing addition to the mid today - unfortunately Hendo was a bit of a spanner cos he was out of position. He was pressing on his own (We we all know we need to press as a team like last season), i am extremely worried that Lallana seems to keep getting overlooked by BR and the question is WHY? We spent 25mill on the lad!!! Why can't we get him match ready? That is more of a concern to me. As well as why do we not get the best from Sterling ...

On a side note, Johnson ... i knew he'd start today and i am thinking, he will play well against his old club or Hazard could tear him a new arse ... instead my only memory of him was watching as Azpilicueta ran past Coutinho and crossed the ball as he JOGGED back to help his team-mate. I'd blood Manquillo all day every day over that imposter.

daithijjj

Demosthenese wrote: »

One clean sheet doesn't really make a difference does it? I mean, if we played Toure and we got a clean sheet does that mean he automatically makes the teamsheet for every game thereafter?

Personally i don't see Skrtel as weak a link as say Johnson. Nor can i lay the blame at the feet of the 2 CB's as at the end of the day they are a cog in the machine that defends from the front.

Look at Chelsea. Would John Terry be as effective if he played for us? Probably not. He plays in a system where they are drilled to within an inch of their lives. So comfortable on the backfoot, so comfortable when the ball is in front of them. It is no accident Mourinho builds teams like this. But you place out midfield and strikers in front of John Terry and Cahill and they'll not fare too much better the way we play.

Even with Gerard/Can/Hendo in front of our defence we still leak too much space. Still make stupid decisions and still do not defend as a team. Chelsea play Hazard as a luxury player but by god he stills puts in a shift. Last season we did the same with Sterling/Coutinho they worked like dogs but we carry too many players in these games. Thats why we leak goals.

I think Rodgers is trying to tinker with the system and players, Can for example was a refreshing addition to the mid today - unfortunately Hendo was a bit of a spanner cos he was out of position. He was pressing on his own (We we all know we need to press as a team like last season), i am extremely worried that Lallana seems to keep getting overlooked by BR and the question is WHY? We spent 25mill on the lad!!! Why can't we get him match ready? That is more of a concern to me. As well as why do we not get the best from Sterling ...

On a side note, Johnson ... i knew he'd start today and i am thinking, he will play well against his old club or Hazard could tear him a new arse ... instead my only memory of him was watching as Azpilicueta ran past Coutinho and crossed the ball as he JOGGED back to help his team-mate. I'd blood Manquillo all day every day over that imposter.

Plenty of folk think he should have started today after the midweek game.

I've been saying on this thread for 3 or 4 windows that we need a starting DM to ease Gerrard out of the team as well as play alongside him when need be. Lucas and Allen dont count, no strength in possession, yard dog required.

I've not seen the game because of work but whats new?, he started Henderson wide left v Newcastle, why?. This ties in with Lallana, at least Lallana has experience in that position, Henderson doesnt.

This might be controversial but we dont get the best from Sterling because we had a shocker replacing Suarez, players trying to knit the mid with attack have the total opposite to what they had last year. Ballotelli cant play on the break or move the ball quickly. "Best we could have got" should be replaced with "what we were willing to pay for".

Johnson has never been a decent full back, he is a wing back moonlighting as a full back. The irony of this is, he is actually decent at left back because he isnt comfortable going forward as much that side.

*we made a mistake selling Martin Kelly for pittance*

Moving forward, i think the club needs to buy for the here and now. We spent 100m in the last 18 months that never got on the pitch v Newcastle. We spent 50m summer before last and have Mignolet to show for it most of this season. We have over 30m Rodgers has spent out on loan. None of those figure include Borini, who we actively tried to push out the door 3 months ago, and, ironically, happens to be probably our most effective striker with Sturridge out.

In short, i'd get rid of Lucas/Allen/Skrtel/Johnson to start with. I'd try for Begovic if i was pushed for a name of a keeper, get a starting DM to ease Gerrard out. I'd also sell Balotelli (yeah, i know), it wont work out on various levels. I kept that short because of the time of night it is.

tigger123

Just my two cents.

Rodgers should be, and most probably will be, given until the end of the season before being judged by LFC. He's without Suarez and Sturridge this season so far and has been given Balotelli as a replacement.

If after Sturridge comes back and he can't pull some wins together then he should be looked at, but not until then. Fans saying he should be sacked are totally jumping the gun.

By the way Balotelli was landed on him its pretty obvious he has little or no control over the transfers at the club. He can only work with what he's been given.

klose

Its just so confusing to see us having reverted to this awful ineffective 4231 when we played much better last season with the 41212, does rodgers think we are playing well? Sterling played so much better playing off the strikers and now he has been reduced to a by line wingers it seems, coutinho had his best run of form in a centre mid position but is back between playing off a sole striker (who himself cant play as one) where he can still be great there but his consistency is poor, or on the wing.
Granted the likes of gerrard/henderson are in poor form but we will have 10/11 of a team that was superb last season when sturridge returns, it seems painfully obvious that we should go back to that formation??
Glen johnson still playing is just bizzare, he is off almost certainly next summer, possibly in january but seems to have a default starting spot? Manquillo has shown much more to date but cant get a look in