Tough At The Top.....???

az2wp0sye65487

Genuine question:

What exactly do MD's / CEO's / Partners etc. of big companies actually do on a daily basis..... Say for example in a law firm or an accountancy firm.... I'm guessing they're not doing the daily tasks, and doing 'hands-on' work on cases etc.

So what do they do? Business development / meeting important clients etc.???

Or do they show up, have meetings and just make sure all the staff are performing, then head off for a game of golf?

I know it's a bit of a broad generalisation btw. I've just always wondered!

helimachoptor

Judith Round Teamster wrote: »

Genuine question:

What exactly do MD's / CEO's / Partners etc. of big companies actually do on a daily basis..... Say for example in a law firm or an accountancy firm.... I'm guessing they're not doing the daily tasks, and doing 'hands-on' work on cases etc.

So what do they do? Business development / meeting important clients etc.???

Or do they show up, have meetings and just make sure all the staff are performing, then head off for a game of golf?

I know it's a bit of a broad generalisation btw. I've just always wondered!

Really depends on the company tbh.

In general they are looking at the strategic direction of the company, that's a fairly wide remit but would include some of the below

- Generic 5 year plan stuff (sales targets etc)
- Costs Vs Revenue growth
- Meeting clients/networking/business development
- Product development along being sponsors for business change programmes
- Budget management

_Brian

Judith Round Teamster wrote: »

Genuine question:

What exactly do MD's / CEO's / Partners etc. of big companies actually do on a daily basis..... Say for example in a law firm or an accountancy firm.... I'm guessing they're not doing the daily tasks, and doing 'hands-on' work on cases etc.

So what do they do? Business development / meeting important clients etc.???

Or do they show up, have meetings and just make sure all the staff are performing, then head off for a game of golf?

I know it's a bit of a broad generalisation btw. I've just always wondered!

I think the best description is that the further up the food chain in a company you go you will have fewer decisions to make but they will be more critical to the business success..
So yes, the MD may only have a few crunch decisions per quarter to make but the implications of the results are far greater than say the janitor, note I didn't say they were more important decisions, everyone's job is important, its just that the implications of the decisions are very different.

From my experience the biggest problem occurs when someone makes a decision that's above their pay grade.. There is a hierarchy of decision making and its best stick to it.

Mr. Loverman

I used to work at a director level. Now I run a company.

The higher up you go the busier you are.
You're responsible for everything.
Most of the time is spent on strategy and politics.
Also a lot of time is spent cleaning up the mess ****ty employees make.
It's absolutely not easy and the money isn't worth the hours/stress.

az2wp0sye65487

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I used to work at a director level. Now I run a company.

The higher up you go the busier you are.
You're responsible for everything.
Most of the time is spent on strategy and politics.
Also a lot of time is spent cleaning up the mess ****ty employees make.
It's absolutely not easy and the money isn't worth the hours/stress.

I'm not implying it's easy. I just genuinely was clueless and curious!

I suppose I was asking as I see a lot of people around me putting in long hours / extra work etc. and they all seem to be very ambitious.... presumably they are hoping to progress and move up the foodchain into more senior positions...

For me, that has lost it's appeal some time ago. While I do want to do well and give my family a comfortable life etc. what really matters to me is being there for my wife & child as much as possible. I'm just not interested in spending crazy hours in the office in the hope of moving up some day.

Mr. Loverman

Playing the politics game is much smarter than putting in long hours.

For example, people who spend time managing their relationships with senior people tend to do quite well.

TallGlass

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Also a lot of time is spent cleaning up the mess ****ty employees make.
It's absolutely not easy and the money isn't worth the hours/stress.

You get that down here at the bottom of the chain too, it's not just people at the top that suffer. I find it amazing that people either with laziness or sheer stupidity cannot get the simplest of things correct.

What I would say to any director or CEO of a company, take one day each month and go down to the people on the bottom and see what's happening, with your own eyes by yourself and unannounced. I have seen some gifted people just give up because incompetence above them and moral drop like a stone in water. Don't believe everything you see on a sheet of paper, I have seen more ways around systems than even the system knows !

TallGlass

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Playing the politics game is much smarter than putting in long hours.

For example, people who spend time managing their relationships with senior people tend to do quite well.

I think it is awful to overlook someone extremely suited to the job because someone has developed and manipulated a relationship with you. Where do you draw the line with this relationship? What if they start slipping up, what if you lose the person more suited to the job.

It's kinda like hiring family members and friends, great idea at the time until they become a problem.

Nothing wrong with hiring the best person for the job and then developing a relationship with them.

I have seen far to many people hired via politics as you said and they are utterly useless.

fret_wimp2

TallGlass wrote: »

I think it is awful to overlook someone extremely suited to the job because someone has developed and manipulated a relationship with you.

I agree, its awful and not fair. I also think its awful that people cant breathe under water. Silly analogy but the point im making is that it is what it is. To be competitive and do well nowdays managing upward is as important as actually doing your day to day job.

If there are 10 people on the floor all doing a good job, but one of them makes an extra effort to schedule a monthly catch up with the boss to check on their progress, or even just makes an effort to have a chat and a laugh with their boss at the water cooler, who will jump to mind when bonus's/promotions are being doled out?

helimachoptor

agree, with all thing being equal the person capable of building and maintaining relationships will win out.

The **** part is, a given person may not be doing the same work as their team, but may give the impression up the ladder they are and get promoted on that basis.

fret_wimp2

helimachoptor wrote: »

The **** part is, a given person may not be doing the same work as their team, but may give the impression up the ladder they are and get promoted on that basis.

100% correct, and this happens all the time! Its the world we live in. being good at your actual job is often only half the battle, you also have to be good at networking and managing upward.

It makes sense though, think of any product, iphone for example. I instantly think of tim cook, jonathan Ive and steve jobs. I dont know the name of the guy who headed the team who archited the UI or helped design itunes, or the guy who came up with acceleratometers or the guy who came up with capacative touchscreens.

I know only those who push themselves into the limelight, same applies in your daily life. Its not your boss's job to notice you, its your job to make him notice you. Until you stand out, your just a headcount.

Martin567

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Its not your boss's job to notice you.

I'm not sure I agree with this. A good boss really should know who their most productive workers are, whether those people are deliberately making themselves noticed or not.

The reality may be that there are not enough good bosses but I can't agree with your statement above.

fret_wimp2

Martin567 wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this. A good boss really should know who their most productive workers are, whether those people are deliberately making themselves noticed or not.

The reality may be that there are not enough good bosses but I can't agree with your statement above.

The unfortunate thing is you don't have to agree with it for it to be true.

You can do the best job in the company but Mary two desks over who makes a point to sit with the boss at lunch, arrange one to ones to highlight her successes, and to ask for feedback will get noticed and picked for promotion Long before the chap who does a good job but nothing to promote themselves and sell their own brand.

Expecting a manager to be watching everyone at a detailed level, taking notes like Santa on who's naughty and nice is folly. Managers are just people too just as interested in how thy can move up, and you can bet a good manager is selling himself to his/her manager.

It's called managing upwards.
It's part of your career development and you are solely responsible for your own career. Don't leave it to chance that a manager might notice, do everything in your power to make them notice. Sure it gives makes it easy to blame an incompetent manager when you get passed over for promotion, but fact is its most likely your own fault for not working hard at being noticed.

(I dont mean you specifically, im using the general "you"!)

TallGlass

fred_wimp2

I agree totally with what you are saying. Maybe I should try more networking as you put it. I tend to just disconnect from people that I feel shouldn't be where they are and don't network with them at all.

What I mean by should not be where they are? You can tell there just so incompetent and stuck in there own bubble looking at them you can see all that is wrong with a company. Only because there good at networking, they are where they are. Yet the blame gets landed on people below them. It's totally wrong, you should be able to demote people as easily as you promote. I think company's investing in these people are actually losing money at the end of the day, they sit around doing nothing, creating more issues than they solve, unproductive and cause good workers to walk out the door which in turn is also your investment that is giving you a good return on your money.

seamus

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Its not your boss's job to notice you

If your boss isn't taking an active interest in his employees and recognising and rewarding the better workers, then he's incompetent.

One problem is the attitude that all career paths lead to management. This is very much a business grad mindset and one that's massively prevalent in the the likes of accountancy, law, etc. In those companies you literally have to become management in order to get promoted. There is no way to be a technical expert and be highly paid, and not be management. So technical experts who may be lacking in sales-esque skills get left behind, even though they make the company more money than the manager.

Other professions often struggle with this because they're being run by people with this business mindset who don't understand that a great engineer may be an awful manager and vice-versa. And that it's OK for a manager to be paid less than his employees.

Any manager with an ounce of competence should be aiming to retain their most talented employees. This doesn't necessarily mean promoting them, that may be a retrograde step for that employee because they don't have the skills that promotion requires.

TallGlass, in your case if you see a poor manager suffocating morale or productivity, then it's worth raising it as a concern to someone above them. There are ways to do this without making it appear like you're playing politics, but you should usually be prepared for that move to either make or break your job in that company.

I get your point about demotion, but in reality it doesn't work. It's humiliating for the employee, who in all likelihood will never be taken seriously by his "new" colleagues and will drag down morale and productivity in general. The best solution all round is to show them the door.

fret_wimp2

On all the points about a manager who doesnt notice or make a point of noticing good employees being incompetent, i totally agree. Let me repeat, you guys are not wrong, there are lots of incompetent managers out there.

But everyone is forgetting a few key points:

1. we live in the real world, these managers exist, are more prevalent than good managers. Like it or not, it is how it is. learn to deal with it or get comfortable with being bitter about the situation.

2. if your career is not going how you think it should, do something about it. Stop blaming an incompetent manager. Maybe they have some part to play in where you are, but nobody has more control over your career than you. You dont like the manager because you think they are incompetent, do something about it.
Leave, report them to a superior or HR, or talk to them directly.

3. No matter where you go and work you will end up working under or alongside someone who you find incompetent. again, thats life, learn to deal with it instead of using it as an excuse to why you are not proceeding as you expect in your career.

One thing to note, If you bring the issue up with their superior, or HR, be prepared for the consequences though. Remember HR are not there for you, they are there to keep the company safe.

TallGlass

seamus wrote: »

TallGlass, in your case if you see a poor manager suffocating morale or productivity, then it's worth raising it as a concern to someone above them. There are ways to do this without making it appear like you're playing politics, but you should usually be prepared for that move to either make or break your job in that company.

I get your point about demotion, but in reality it doesn't work. It's humiliating for the employee, who in all likelihood will never be taken seriously by his "new" colleagues and will drag down morale and productivity in general. The best solution all round is to show them the door.

I wouldn't dare raise the issue, I am sure people above are well aware and they themselves don't care in fact it maybe seen as an asset that this person causes so many people to walk out the door, one reason I can think of is it delivers on payroll so who cares? The only issue is, the people walking are excellent workers so the place is left with a handful of decent workers that are literally at breaking point with work loads but the company dose not care cause payroll is heading into the green. Sadly, it's having a knock on effect on everything else from sales to moral. It's literally frightening to see this person manage, I say the person wouldn't know the meaning if asked what dose it mean to manage?

I know a few CEO's are on Boards, so just to highlight this issue. Hire managers based on there ability's cause if the person can't manage they usually cause issues with workers and I personally think an angry or irate worker is dangerous to a company. Last thing any company should want is a worker going out the door, it your investment gone up in smoke, you don't just pay that person, you have trained them they have bonded with customers and are promotion for you. They walk it's extra cost on your business you have to hire someone new and if you don't your leveling worker B with a bigger workload they can't cope absence starts or they walk also.

You wouldn't buy something for your business, not look after it and service it. Same should apply to workers, look after and service your workers. Look out for bad managers or managers that are burned out with workloads. Like managing, load balance your managers. Just because someone is a manager of something dose not mean they cannot take up some task from another manager if they have some slack, same for senior managers if they have slack load balance tasks with them. If anything senior managers should be picking up work from below, they are senior they know what there at and could show some inside to get a task done quickly. I also think managers should do tasks on the ground with workers to see what actually happens it can't do any harm and the workers then know well the manager might come down and we are not doing much.

Anyway, that's all in fantasy land and will never happen where I work anyway !