My baby is in pain and curling up.

dashcamdanny

I have a newborn boy. 10 days old.

My partner is breast feeding but he requires a top up of Aptamil as she can only produce around 35ml per feed at the moment.

The baby seems to be fine with the breast milk but curls up and has explosive poo's with a cry of pain.

He seems to be in pain most of the time .

We are getting his wind up ok and his poo's are creamy in consistency and mustard in color. They are also causing rash on his bottom.


Could this be the premixed aptamil? Is it ok to change brand?

clare82

Congrats
Why are you topping up? I'd be inclined to stop that first. Bfing works on supply/demand so the more mammy feeds the more milk she will produce.
The poos sound perfectly normal.
Have a look on sites such as kelly mom or Dr jack Newman for other bf related issues.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

mapaca

The more you feed/put baby to the breast, the more milk your body will produce. I wouldn't bother topping up with formula at this early stage. The poos sound normal to me, but if you are worried baby is having trapped wind or pain, try massaging his tummy gently and cycling his legs. Hope that helps, it's a steep learning curve in the first few weeks but it gets easier, I promise!

Moonbeam

Some people are told to top up in the hospital.
Talk to your PHN,it could be just wind or it could be a milk allergy or colic. She will know best.

Sclosages

Is your wife expressing?

dashcamdanny

Thanks. We have been seen the lactation consultant. We were told to top up as the baby lost 9% weight and was quite jaundice as well.
She is breast feeding every 3 hours and then pumping, but its not coming in even 10 days later. She is starting to get quite upset over this unfortunately. And very tired. She is getting 35ml when she expressing
Now the baby is getting pains .



Is there a big difference in brands of formula? Im wondering if a change will make things better or worse for his belly.

Sclosages

Would you or your wife be averse to switching solely to formula? I mean this. Life is too short to have Mammy, Daddy and Baby miserable.

Sclosages

Btw - I'm not sure why your wife is pumping this early on. It would account for low milk supply. Is there a reason she is pumping and not feeding?

SameDiff

Sclosages wrote: »

Would you or your wife be averse to switching solely to formula? I mean this. Life is too short to have Mammy, Daddy and Baby miserable.

Jesus, what a shocking comment to make. The OP is hindering breastmilk production by topping up and the formula is more than likely causing the cramps and constipation the baby is enduring, yet your first suggestion is to switch completely to formula.

The baby is 10 days old. Breastfeeding takes time to establish. A 7-10% weight loss is perfectly normal when breastfeeding.

Throw the formula in the bin is the solution to the OP's problem.

Sclosages

SameDiff wrote: »

Jesus, what a shocking comment to make. The OP is hindering breastmilk production by topping up and the formula is more than likely causing the cramps and constipation the baby is enduring, yet your first suggestion is to switch completely to formula.

The baby is 10 days old. Breastfeeding takes time to establish. A 7-10% weight loss is perfectly normal when breastfeeding.

Throw the formula in the bin is the solution to the OP's problem.

Jesus - grow up and cop on that breastfeeding is not necessarily BEST FOR BABY WHEN IT IS DRIVING MUMMY AND DADDY INSANE!

dashcamdanny

Sclosages wrote: »

Btw - I'm not sure why your wife is pumping this early on. It would account for low milk supply. Is there a reason she is pumping and not feeding?

She had to stop after 3 days as her nipples were starting to crack. She needed a couple of days to heal. I rented the pump as advised so the baby could still get the her milk and her breasts were still getting stimulated for feeding. .

Sclosages

dashcamdanny wrote: »

She had to stop after 3 days as her nipples were starting to crack. She needed a couple of days to heal. I rented the pump as advised so the baby could still get the her milk and her breasts were still getting stimulated for feeding. .

Some people soldier through the cracked nipples. I did. Lansolin or some such other precious cream, panadol (yup), cabbage leaves.

The thing is, if your wife isn't feeding, the supply will be reduced. Go with the advice of the professionals in the hospital. That, and what you both feel is best for you as a family and for you both as parents.

Sclosages

Oh, and you'd swear I worked for these dudes, but I don't. Infacol. Religiously. Before every feed. EVERY FEED. RELIGIOUSLY.

People don't tell other people about this as they believe they will incur some curse whereby it will never work again, if they share this little secret.

Don't tell anyone.

Sclosages

Anyone I know, who has used Infacol, has waited until the child was entirely weaned off bottles before sharing the name of this miracle cure. Honestly. I was afraid to tell anyone about it, in case, it reduced the efficacy on my child. Such was the wondrous nature of these drops. One becomes a little superstitious when your baby doesn't cry for hours. You're just waiting for something to set it off again.

SameDiff

Sclosages wrote: »

Oh, and you'd swear I worked for these dudes, but I don't. Infacol. Religiously. Before every feed. EVERY FEED. RELIGIOUSLY.

People don't tell other people about this as they believe they will incur some curse whereby it will never work again, if they share this little secret.

Don't tell anyone.

Your advice is getting worse and worse.

First up, the "professionals" are totally wrong. Supplementing breastfeeding with formula after 10 days is terrible advice. Yes, the baby will gain weight but will continue to be in pain and keeping parents anxious and awake. The "professionals" only care about the weight gain and are unconcerned about anything else.

Secondly, cracked nipples are a sign of poor technique and are not part and parcel of correct breastfeeding. Soldiering on with that is no good, technique needs to be corrected.

Thirdly infacol before every feed is also not normal nor required and recommending before every feed is dangerous.

Sclosages

SameDiff wrote: »

Your advice is getting worse and worse.

First up, the "professionals" are totally wrong. Supplementing breastfeeding with formula after 10 days is terrible advice. Yes, the baby will gain weight but will continue to be in pain and keeping parents anxious and awake. The "professionals" only care about the weight gain and are unconcerned about anything else.

Secondly, cracked nipples are a sign of poor technique and are not part and parcel of correct breastfeeding. Soldiering on with that is no good, technique needs to be corrected.

Thirdly infacol before every feed is also not normal nor required and recommending before every feed is dangerous.

The professionals care about weight gain as they do not want a baby dying from starvation or dehydration while under their care. Funnily enough.

Cracked nipples are par for the course for a first time breast-feeder. It takes time, and the patience of nurses (who don't exist), to demonstrate proper latch on. Or are La Leche doing hospital visits these days? (God forbid!).

Infacol was recommended by a paediatric consultant. Both myself and baby slept soundly after the introduction of that wee piece of genius.

SameDiff

Sclosages wrote: »

The professionals care about weight gain as they do not want a baby dying from starvation or dehydration while under their care. Funnily enough.

As I said, 9% weight loss is perfectly normal.

Cracked nipples are par for the course for a first time breast-feeder.

Totally incorrect

It takes time, and the patience of nurses (who don't exist), to demonstrate proper latch on. Or are La Leche doing hospital visits these days? (God forbid!).

Yes it takes time, but it is well worth perfecting, rather than rushing to formula which has a whole host of problems.

Infacol was recommended by a paediatric consultant. Both myself and baby slept soundly after the introduction of that wee piece of genius.

Yes, morphine or horse tranquilisers would have the same effect.

Sclosages

Babies lose a percentage of weight in the first few days after birth. THAT is normal. Then they start to gain weight. It is NOT NORMAL to be 9% down on birth-weight, 10 days after birth.
Cracked nipples ARE PAR for the course on first pregnancies as there is no-one to teach a new mother how to latch on. It is a painful learning curve!
Infacol and morphine or horse tranquilisers? lol. I suggest you're possibly on the latter two!

indigo twist

Bear in mind that you don't get as much milk when you pump as you do during a regular feed. So even though you only get 35 ml when pumping, the baby could be getting a lot more when feeding directly.

I don't think changing formula at such a young stage is the solution - Aptimel is known to be closest in consistency to breastmilk, so usually best for combined feeding.

If she really wants to make a go of it, I would advise you to cut out the pumping (not recommended until supply has been well established) and cut out the formula. Get in touch with Cuidiu or La Leche League asap. Have a read of the breastfeeding support thread on this page. Don't get bogged down with numbers and percentages and amounts - the baby will let you know if they're not getting enough!

Breastfeeding isn't for everyone - it wasn't for me - but pumping and formula top-ups within the first couple of weeks really isn't going to help matters. Best of luck!

emer_b

OP I'm sorry that you came on here looking for some simple advice and got bombarded with such differing opinions on what to do. I completely understand how confusing it is first time around.
As a second time mum, currently bfeeding my 10week old, I would have to agree with the advice from samediff and indigo twist. Talk to your PHN tmrw or call a lactation consultant to guide you forward. Bear in mind that some of the PHNs at excellent at bfeeding advice, some are not, just obsessed with weight gain and that chart.
As for the poos, don't worry that sounds completely normal. While bfeeding, most poos seem like diarrhea and often continue like this until solids are introduced.
Good luck

SameDiff

Sclosages wrote: »

morphine or horse tranquilisers? lol. I suggest you're possibly on the latter two!

Post reported

bp

My baby was breastfed but got formula too a few times in the hospital as I was exhausted (shockingly enough) and was fine with both. The latch was shocking at the start but a lactation consultant helped.

I also pumped from day seven and this did not affect my supply.

I am a firm believer in do what is right for mammy and baby. Try tilting the cot slightly so baby isn't flat on their back, might help with trapped wind.

Also bf doesn't always work for everyone so work around yourself, partner and baby.

And yes all formula are different but give each one a bit of time if that is the route you take. Even one bf a day will help the immune system (that said my 19 month old has has about 6 antibiotics so far with being bf)

pwurple

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I have a newborn boy. 10 days old.

My partner is breast feeding but he requires a top up of Aptamil as she can only produce around 35ml per feed at the moment.

The baby seems to be fine with the breast milk but curls up and has explosive poo's with a cry of pain.

He seems to be in pain most of the time .

We are getting his wind up ok and his poo's are creamy in consistency and mustard in color. They are also causing rash on his bottom.


Could this be the premixed aptamil? Is it ok to change brand?

Congratulations on the new baby!

To answer your questions, yes it is ok to change brand.

I'd return to the doctor and ask about the pain though.

January

Scloages, attack the post not the poster

Op, contact cuidi or la leche league or a private breast feeding consultant if you can afford it today. That's if your wife wishes to continue to breast feed, it is overall her choice whether she wishes to continue or not.

I'd recommend taking the advice of professionals about this over any one here. As you can see already there are already so many conflicting views when it comes to breast feeding.

SameDiff

January wrote: »

I'd recommend taking the advice of professionals about this over any one here.

I really wouldn't. More than likely they are using the generic formula-fed weight charts so their assumptions are incorrect. And again, their primary concern is fattening up baby, not curing pains, constipation, sleepless nights etc. etc. Those are of no concern to them.

I'd recommend stopping expressing, stopping formula-feeding, correcting your breastfeeding technique and watching baby gaining weight over the next 2-3 weeks free of pain.

January

SameDiff wrote: »

I really wouldn't. More than likely they are using the generic formula-fed weight charts so their assumptions are incorrect. And again, their primary concern is fattening up baby, not curing pains, constipation, sleepless nights etc. etc. Those are of no concern to them.

I'd recommend stopping expressing, stopping formula-feeding, correcting your breastfeeding technique and watching baby gaining weight over the next 2-3 weeks free of pain.

I meant from a professional breast feeding consultant not a regular GP or PHN (although my phn had the breast feeding charts and they were great).

I actually agree that stopping the formula and pumping is the best idea but I wouldn't be informing first time parents to do it without the advise and guidance of someone professional because it could be a pretty dangerous thing especially if baby continues to lose weight and gets dehydrated as a result. Sometimes supply doesn't automatically correct itself once you start feeding more.

clare82

Formula is only good for mammies and daddies. Breastfeeding is what's best for babies. Stick it out Op and don't give up on a bad day.
Posters here have advised going to back to the doc or phn but some of these ppl are all too happy to advise formula/pumping etc which might work for some people but it seems to be causing a problem for your baby. As others suggested get help from breastfeeding experts such as la leche league and lactation consultant etc. There are things like breast shells and nipple shields to help with cracked nipples. ..try them before formula.
Strip baby down to nappy and cuddle up to mammys chest all day to get lots of skin to skin contact. Let them sleep together with you checking in regularly if your worried about safety.
Bfing can be exhausting in the beginning but once it's established it'll be easy.
Also fennel tea and oats are good for supply.

I hope you get the help and support that you came on here looking for and that this thread doesn't decend into some childish argument over bfing v formula.

Freddie Mercurys Bolero

See if there is a lactation consultant near you, or a la leche league, it does sound like the latch needs correcting. Also every three hours does not sound like enough... My babies weren't feeding every three hours until they were about 5 months. Is your wife offering breast every time baby roots? She should offer the breast every hour at least. There are lots of breastfeeding support groups on Facebook that can advise and support also if your wife uses Facebook. Mammys breastfeeding chat group (Ireland) is one. It's really not easy to establish breastfeeding sometimes so please offer her all the support you can, bring her food and drinks and look a after the house work too .

De_man

Folks a lot of good advice here, speaking from our personal experience daughter 1 was breast fed no problems, daughter 2 experienced similar as OP.

Loosing weight, howling, that awful curling up wife that just
Wanted to breast feed etc I know what your going through.

Go with your gut instinct something's not right here, we went to several GPs and didn't get any real assistance, your baby will settle we were told, this is true for a lot of the time, after a while a nurse suggested we try nutramigen what a life saver, the awful curling up stopped immediately and you could tell she was happy. Finished the first bottle off, We used this formula for several months then weaned off no problems.

To us it tasted awful, but she loved it

This stuff is expensive though, maybe if the doctor prescribes it could be cheaper

Let us know
I hope this works, let us know

indigo twist

De_man wrote: »

Folks a lot of good advice here, speaking from our personal experience daughter 1 was breast fed no problems, daughter 2 experienced similar as OP.

Loosing weight, howling, that awful curling up wife that just
Wanted to breast feed etc I know what your going through.

Go with your gut instinct something's not right here, we went to several GPs and didn't get any real assistance, your baby will settle we were told, this is true for a lot of the time, after a while a nurse suggested we try nutramigen what a life saver, the awful curling up stopped immediately and you could tell she was happy. Finished the first bottle off, We used this formula for several months then weaned off no problems.

To us it tasted awful, but she loved it

This stuff is expensive though, maybe if the doctor prescribes it could be cheaper

Let us know
I hope this works, let us know

That solves nothing though if the wife really wants to give breastfeeding a proper go ...

I tried breastfeeding for just long enough to know that, despite what I'd planned and expected, it was NOT for me and I was much happier formula-feeding. But, I did read up plenty on breastfeeding ... something that's often repeated is the mantra "for every breastfeeding problem there's a breastfeeding solution."

First step is to see a lactation consultant. The OP should get on to the hospital ASAP to arrange an appointment - or arrange one privately - by the way, this is covered under some health insurance policies. Either way, it's imperative to get the appointment asap - in the early days of breastfeeding, especially if it's not working out, a day can feel like an eternity (especially when pumping in between feeds - it's like you're feeding two babies!)

Also as I mentioned, La Leche League and Cuidiu are both there to provide support and advice.

And OP you have to remember, breastfeeding is a completely different routine to bottle feeding. If you're bottlefeeding a baby every four hours, I'd maybe be concerned if they were only taking 35ml each time. But with breastfeeding in the early days, it's unusual to only feed only every three or four or five hours - it's quite normal for the baby to pretty much live on the boob at times! So it's fine for them to feed little and often (very often!) as opposed to taking large regular feeds.

I do think that cutting out pumping and formula feeding is the way to go, but as above, it would be important to do so under the guidance of a lactation consultant or similar medical professional. It is so important though that you get to one as soon as you possibly can. Oh and think of it this way - if you have to wait a few days to see the public consultant, pay whatever it takes to get a private lactation consultant to call to your house today or tomorrow - believe me, if it means you get on track with the breastfeeding, you'll save that much several times over on the cost of formula!!!

Jerrica

Breastfeeding is hard work, you and your wife are doing a great job so far. It's not necessarily the route that everyone ends up taking, but you're playing a blinder so far and there's lots of things you can try before considering a switch to formula (if you're both happy to).

Breastmilk is super easy for babies to digest, so any pain or discomfort is likely from the formula. Switching brands so early isn't recommended so if you're using aptamil then stick with it. As has been said though, breastmilk works on supply and demand, and there's around a four week window after the baby is born to establish supply, so there's loads of time yet to get that right.

Infacol can work, and it's probably worth a shot, but don't be distressed if it doesn't get rid of all of the baby's discomfort right away. A baby has such a delicate and immature digestive system, it's going to take a few weeks for them to get strong and happy

More than anything though what your wife needs is support, and you're obviously giving her plenty. If she wants to continue breastfeeding every feed is going to be important to her, and encouragement and support will mean the world. An IBCLC certified lactation consultant would be great, if you're in Dublin and need recommendations let me know. There's a group called Friends of Breastfeeding who run a buddy system, your wife could be given a breastfeeding buddy who can give her support when she needs it. Cuidiu have groups and on line support on facebook.

The health professionals do tend to put a huge emphasis on numbers and percentiles, but that's not necessarily in mum and baby's best interest. If the baby is gaining weight (even in small amounts) then that's a good sign. If at all possible I'd second the suggestion that you consider going back to exclusively breastfeeding, formula can help in the short term but may bring it's own issues, and is highly likely to being breastfeeding to a premature end because of the effect is has on supply.

A good LC will also be able to see if baby has a tongue or lip tie - this causes an inefficient latch which again causes supply issues.

It does get easier, once you have someone to turn to when things go a bit wonky. I had a fairly rough time with feeding for the first two weeks, I had to use shields, I pumped, I very very nearly stopped altogether. But once I had a LC help me to pinpoint our problems I was able to wear off the shields, and now I use the pump every few days to build up my freezer stash. My baby had a posterior tongue tie and we got it snipped, now breastfeeding is an absolute pleasure and the easiest thing in the world to do. But it didn't work straight away and it takes time for mum and baby to learn, and mum needs support support support to get there. Best of luck.

Moonbeam

Having been through it on my 1st too .
The hospital had me pumping and topping up on day 2 and I never had enough milk for her ever . I was feeding her on demand and because she was starving , I was constantly feeding and I never got a good supply .
This was not the experience on all of mine though.
I have to go through this thread so closing it .

Moonbeam

Sclosages wrote: »

Babies lose a percentage of weight in the first few days after birth. THAT is normal. Then they start to gain weight. It is NOT NORMAL to be 9% down on birth-weight, 10 days after birth.
Cracked nipples ARE PAR for the course on first pregnancies as there is no-one to teach a new mother how to latch on. It is a painful learning curve!
Infacol and morphine or horse tranquilisers? lol. I suggest you're possibly on the latter two!

Do not feed the Troll

Moonbeam

I am no re-opening this thread.

We all know breastfeeding is best for baby but none of us are in a position to advise the op about what to do and a lactation consultant and doctor have already been consulted.
We can all talk of our personal experience but I think it is all medical advice now.
There is a difference between correct weight gain for breast fed babies and loosing weight rapidly and the stress on the mother is not going to be helped by some of the replies.