New Championship Schedule

Pete_Cavan · 26-10-2014 4:19pm #1

There are regular threads on here about changing the structure of the Championship. This is not without merit, the Championships as they are very drawn out with teams regularly have long layoffs between games while others dont. For example, Donegal played the Ulster final 8 weeks after their quarter final, their opponents, Monaghan, only had 5 weeks between quarter and final.

Suggestions to change are always met with a lot of opposition from people who want provincial championships retained as they are. Again, there is sense in this, the provincial championships have a great history, have great rivalries and the goal for most counties at the start of the year is to win a provincial title. It would be a shame to lose all this.

I think a lot of the anomalies in the Championships could be addressed by altering the scheduling, not the provinces. The below table shows the dates for the various stages of both the hurling (in blue) and football (in red) championships for this year. Beside it I have laid out an alternative schedule which shortens the Championship season and rationalises the fixtures.

Actual Proposed
Ulster Leinster Munster Connaucht Qualifiers AI Series Games* Ulster Leinster Munster Connaucht Qualifiers AI Series Games*
03/04 May - Wk1 QF 1 0
10/11 May - Wk2 0 Prelim Prelim QF x 2 6
17/18 May - Wk3 Prelim Prelim QF 5 QF x 2 QF x 2 4
24/25 May - Wk4 QF QF QF 3 QF x 4 QF 5
31 May/01 June - Wk5 QF QF x 2 QF SF 5 QF x 4 SF x 2 R1 x 4 10
07/08 June - Wk6 QF QF x 3 QF QF SF 7 SF x 2 SF x 2 R1 x 4 8
14/15 June - Wk7 QF QF SF SF 4 SF x 2 SF x 2 SF x 2 R2 x 4 10
21/22 June - Wk8 SF SF SF x 2 SF R1 x 4 9 F F R2 x 4 6
28/29 June - Wk9 SF SF x 2 R1 x 4 R1 x 2 9 F F R3 x 4 R1 x 2 8
05/06 July - Wk10 F F R2 x 4 R1 x 2 8 F F R4 x 4 R1 x 2 8
12/13 July - Wk11 F F R2 x 4 + R3 x 2 R2 9 R2 QF x 2 3
19/20 July - Wk12 F F R3 x 2 R2 5 R2 QF x 2 4
26/27 July - Wk13 R4 x 2 QF x 2 4 QF x 2 2
02/03 Aug - Wk14 R4 x 2 QF x 2 4 SF 1
09/10 Aug - Wk15 QF x 2 SF 3 SF 1
16/17 Aug - Wk16 SF 1 SF 1
23/24 Aug - Wk17 SF 1 SF 1
30/31 Aug - Wk18 SF 1 F 1
06/07 Sept - Wk19 F 1 F 1
13/14 Sept - Wk20 0 0
20/21 Sept - Wk21 F 1 0
81 80

*The total number of games played on each weekend

I have left out the New York game because I would prefer to see them removed from Championship but that match could be retained in its original place or game week 2 without affecting anything after that.

As you can see (hopefully) the football final has been moved to before the hurling. This means the football Championship is 4 weeks shorter. The other big change is to have quarters and semis from each provincial championship on one weekend instead of having them spread across several weekends. The Ulster Championship for example would be played across 4 game weeks, not the present 8 (across 10 weekends in total), which would make it more interesting and easier to follow for fans and more intense for players. I have kept the Munster football and hurling championships separate, similarly with Leinster. This avoids a situation where both a counties footballers and hurlers are playing on the same weekend.

The wait between games in 2 or 3 weeks, exception being between Leinster hurling semis and final which is 4 week and the winner of the first football AI semi also has to wait 4 weeks for the final. The winners of Leinster and Munster hurling finals will have a long wait before next match also but this is unavoidable due to other games which need to be played first. The only time a team will be out two weekends in a row is in the qualifiers, as is the case now.

There are a couple of options for hurling Final. Either played as I have it but that only gives one finalist two weeks to prepare for the final. The alternatives are that the final could be pushed out by a week or both semis could be played on the same weekend.

My month of June is busy with 50 games played over 6 weekends, although in reality we had 46 games played over 6 weekend this summer so the fixture congestion is minimal. The most number of matches on any one weekend that I have is 10, this happens twice (game weeks 6 & 7). Weeks 8, 9 & 11 actually had 9 matches each so my suggestion is only one extra match on two weekends.

My proposal shouldnt reduce TV coverage either. Assuming there are only 4 live TV slots each weekend (2 Saturday evening, 2 Sunday afternoon), any weekend with more than 4 matches will mean some games can not be shown live. The existing schedule had 8 weekends with more than 4 matches being played, mine has only 7.

The benefits are;

Clearer more defined structure to all provincial championship making it easier to follow

Easier to market and promote - Ulster quarter final weekend or Munster hurling semi final weekend can be advertised in one package instead of individual matches clashing randomly with other matches

Irons out a lot of the unfairness in the Championship - your opponent will have had the same time to rest and prepare for the match as you did (except for those in the qualifiers)

Leinster & Munster football and hurling championships are kept to separate weekends which makes them easier to promote and will avoid a county having both hurlers and footballers playing on the same weekend

Shorter intercounty season means more time in the year available for club games
Note; the point of this thread is to discuss the scheduling of the championships, there are enough threads already to do with the structure so any talk of open draws, gerrymandering of provinces or Champions League format can go to them.

ArmaniJeanss · 26-10-2014 5:43pm

I think a lot of these plans clash with TV deals. Like don't BBCNI show 2 or 3 of the Ulster QFs and both semis. Your plan plays all these games on 2 weekends instead of the current 6 weekends and is probably something BBCNI wouldn't accept.

Pete_Cavan · 26-10-2014 6:47pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I think a lot of these plans clash with TV deals. Like don't BBCNI show 2 or 3 of the Ulster QFs and both semis. Your plan plays all these games on 2 weekends instead of the current 6 weekends and is probably something BBCNI wouldn't accept.

Games can be staggered to suit TV, this happens already. We have had 4 TV slots for games for a while, 5pm and 7pm Saturday and 2pm and 4pm on Sunday. You can of course have two games showing on different channels at the same time.

BBCNI could continue to show 3 QFs, one Saturday evening and two Sunday afternoon at 2pm and 4pm. I dont know how they would feel about a Saturday evening match, they may not want to show it or may have a full schedule at the time already. The Monaghan Armagh Ulster semi this year was played on a Saturday evening, cant remember if BBCNI showed it.

mickmackey1 · 26-10-2014 6:57pm

Under your system there would be a massive 6-week gap between Mun Final and AI semi, 5 weeks is already too long. Appreciate the effort though.

ArmaniJeanss · 26-10-2014 7:12pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Games can be staggered to suit TV, this happens already. We have had 4 TV slots for games for a while, 5pm and 7pm Saturday and 2pm and 4pm on Sunday. You can of course have two games showing on different channels at the same time.

BBCNI could continue to show 3 QFs, one Saturday evening and two Sunday afternoon at 2pm and 4pm. I dont know how they would feel about a Saturday evening match, they may not want to show it or may have a full schedule at the time already. The Monaghan Armagh Ulster semi this year was played on a Saturday evening, cant remember if BBCNI showed it.

I'm not sure they'd be willing/able to 'opt out' of regular programming for so many hours on one weekend, and they may not be able to commit the amount of outside broadcast units needed to cover multiple games. And fundamentally they may not want such a condensed deal, e.g., 3/4 games one weekend then nothing for x weekends isn't good.

Theres also an issue that the 4 quarter finalists in Ulster are usually played in different grounds - currently when its over 4 weekends the hardcore fan can go to all 4 games. Under your scheme fans wouldn't be able to do that given games in say Ballybofey, Derry, Clones and Belfast. Any idea which makes it difficult for fans to go to games is starting off on a negative footing.

Your idea's are ok* for other provinces, but don't work in Ulster football.

* though I think they are addressing something which isn't really an actual problem.

Boom__Boom · 26-10-2014 7:24pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not sure they'd be willing/able to 'opt out' of regular programming for so many hours on one weekend, and they may not be able to commit the amount of outside broadcast units needed to cover multiple games. And fundamentally they may not want such a condensed deal, e.g., 3/4 games one weekend then nothing for x weekends isn't good.

Theres also an issue that the 4 quarter finalists in Ulster are usually played in different grounds - currently when its over 4 weekends the hardcore fan can go to all 4 games. Under your scheme fans wouldn't be able to do that given games in say Ballybofey, Derry, Clones and Belfast.

Your idea's are ok* for other provinces, but don't work in Ulster football.

* though I think they are addressing something which isn't really an actual problem.

I'm sure BBCNI would just love to be able to opt out of showing GAA games anyway. Also arranging the schedule of games with the TV schedule as the main priority strikes me a bit of the tail wagging the dog. If one or two Ulster championship games had to be sacrificed from being broadcast live to cut a month off the length of the championship, I think it could well be a sacrifice worth making in terms of improving things for the club player.

Also when the new stadium is finished in Belfast there will be surely be a lot more games played there so should make the notion of games being all over the place a lot less of an issue.

I think the interprovincals are easily an area where time could be saved in terms of the whole scheduling issue at very little cost - get rid of them and you save 2 weekends of top intercounty players being taken away from their clubs for a competition where the crowds are pretty much at one man and a dog level. Complete no-brainer imo.

Pete_Cavan · 26-10-2014 7:50pm

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Under your system there would be a massive 6-week gap between Mun Final and AI semi, 5 weeks is already too long. Appreciate the effort though.

Yes but the issue there is the structure of the hurling championship, Munster and Leinster champions have to wait for other games to be played before their next opponent is confirmed. The only way to reduce the gap is to change the structure or have some teams play three weeks on the trot which arent great options. Playing hurling QFs on the same day as football QFs isnt a great option either.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not sure they'd be willing/able to 'opt out' of regular programming for so many hours on one weekend, and they may not be able to commit the amount of outside broadcast units needed to cover multiple games. And fundamentally they may not want such a condensed deal, e.g., 3/4 games one weekend then nothing for x weekends isn't good.

Theres also an issue that the 4 quarter finalists in Ulster are usually played in different grounds - currently when its over 4 weekends the hardcore fan can go to all 4 games. Under your scheme fans wouldn't be able to do that given games in say Ballybofey, Derry, Clones and Belfast. Any idea which makes it difficult for fans to go to games is starting off on a negative footing.

Your idea's are ok* for other provinces, but don't work in Ulster football.

Fair points

* though I think they are addressing something which isn't really an actual problem.

Wouldnt agree with that, every year we have complaints about the provincial championships and how they are a lame duck yet many people dont want to lose them. The best compromise is to shorten the provincials. They currently account for more than half the duration of the championship and have the feeling of going through the motions until we get down to the real business. You also have what seems like a random mix of QFs and SFs for 6 weeks which takes away from their appeal. Having more time for club football (the level of football the vast majority of players play at) would also be very beneficial.

munchkin_utd · 27-10-2014 10:43am

I've been bleating the same story myself when folks are chatting about abandoning the provincials, the problem is that the provincials are too long and especially Ulster which has 4 QFs in a row in 4 weeks, but the provincials themselves arent terrible AND arent going to be abandoned so no point in wasting time coming up with schedules for a champions league format - tweaking the current system is all that will happen for the foreseeable future

Your schedule with all 4 Ulster QF on the same weekend is a non runner though. But 2 over 2 weekends would work, and you can taper that into having semis on different weeks.

As in,
wk2 preliminary
wk4 2xquarters
wk5 2xquarters
wk6 1xsemi (of winners of wk4)
wk7 1xsemi (of winners of wk5)
wk10 Ulster Final (need 2 weeks break till final, especially if wk7semi goes to replay - schedule the small provinces Munster/ Connacht for finals on wk9 instead)

Leinster would be like Ulster with more prelimiaries OR possibly a round robin with weaker counties from wk1 to 3 as a preliminary which is possibly going to be proposed to congress in the spring.

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2014 3:03pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I've been bleating the same story myself when folks are chatting about abandoning the provincials, the problem is that the provincials are too long and especially Ulster which has 4 QFs in a row in 4 weeks, but the provincials themselves arent terrible AND arent going to be abandoned so no point in wasting time coming up with schedules for a champions league format - tweaking the current system is all that will happen for the foreseeable future

Your schedule with all 4 Ulster QF on the same weekend is a non runner though. But 2 over 2 weekends would work, and you can taper that into having semis on different weeks.

As in,
wk2 preliminary
wk4 2xquarters
wk5 2xquarters
wk6 1xsemi (of winners of wk4)
wk7 1xsemi (of winners of wk5)
wk10 Ulster Final (need 2 weeks break till final, especially if wk7semi goes to replay - schedule the small provinces Munster/ Connacht for finals on wk9 instead)

Leinster would be like Ulster with more prelimiaries OR possibly a round robin with weaker counties from wk1 to 3 as a preliminary which is possibly going to be proposed to congress in the spring.

Playing Ulster final on week 10 would mean Round 4 of the qualifiers cant be played until week 11 and it pushes everything out. I would be more inclined to play the QFs two on wk 3, two on wk 4 (one of these having come through the preliminary road in wk 2) with both SFs being played on wk 6. This brings in some teams having more time to prepare and others having less time before semis.

I wouldnt see having two weeks to prepare for a provincial final as an issue, it was good enough for Munster football finalists and one Leinster hurling finalist this year. If this is important, it could be achieved in Ulster but the gap between QFs and SFs would be reduced to two weeks for some or all teams, perhaps it is better to give more time to prepare for the final. To keep things consist, the Munster QFs and SFs could be pushed back to give three weeks between semis and final. Having three weeks to prepare for final can be achieved in Leinster although the break between prelim round and QFs, and QFs and SFs would be two weeks. Taking on board these and ArmaniJeanss comments above, there is merit in tweeking, I will change to to reflect this when I have sufficient time to figure out the table.

munchkin_utd · 27-10-2014 4:29pm

Pete, the likelyhood of a replay in a Munster semi is fairly low with Cork and Kerry separated to be in opposite semi finals, so there a week break (leaving 2 weeks between the last semi and the final) is a safe buffer. Also, teams in Munster / Connacht have fewer games, and of the games they have its no comparison in toughness or exertion to say the path in the bottom half of Ulster this year where anyone coming through that would possibly need the 3 weeks to recover, and regardless of whether its truely needed you'd need to give them 3 weeks break to get the approval to have a calendar that would be a runner (again, as opposed to abstract proposals that wont get agreement in the real world)

By rights the biggest change necessary is allowing extra time in the 1st meeting of teams in everything up to all ireland quarters or semis which would mean less draws and allow for better scheduling.
You might even need to seed the teams in Ulster so the top and bottom half is more balanced, but again this isnt something that comes into your calendar scheduling.

New Championship Schedule

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