Public Intoxication

PhilosophyBro

This may seem like an odd question, but why do guards bother to arrest people for being drunk in public?

A friend of mine left a house party for a few minutes and ended up being arrested and shoved in a cell. He was given no information as to what was going on.

Surely the guards have better things to be doing and could have just asked him to go back to where he came from.

Does this not seem pointless to anyone else?

Little CuChulainn

They don't arrest someone just for being drunk, they arrest them if they are so drunk they are a danger to themselves. It's a pain in the ass to throw drunk people in the cell because they have to be monitored. You really have to do something to draw their attention first.

PhilosophyBro

It still seems a bit odd that they think the best thing to do in that situation is arrest them, drive them to the station and put them in a cell.
My friend didn't know it was illegal and he thought he was going to court even though he had just left the party. All of this can be more shocking than if they just left it. It's a bit over the top.

I would almost prefer if a private crowd did this to be honest because then they would be forced to be more professional and reasonable.

Little CuChulainn

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

It still seems a bit odd that they think the best thing to do in that situation is arrest them, drive them to the station and put them in a cell.
My friend didn't know it was illegal and he thought he was going to court even though he had just left the party. All of this can be more shocking than if they just left it. It's a bit over the top.

I would almost prefer if a private crowd did this to be honest because then they would be forced to be more professional and reasonable.

You'd prefer if a private crowd had the power to take people off the street?

Gardaí arrest people who are a danger to themselves. You might think it's unreasonable but it's better than having some idiot walk in front of a car or fall in a canal because he can't handle his drink.

punisher5112

Can't see how with google and the likes these types of threads pop up.

It seems to be a case of where op quite possibly is the defendant or has left a whole lot out of the story.

Cops don't go looking for drunks as drunks usually find the cops or do stupid things that draw attention to themselves.

I have been at parties, out all night and day and not drawn attention to myself and never been arrested so seems to me quite strange as most cops I see if they are ever around usually look the other way if something is happening.
Not saying they do nothing but cops are quite thin on the ground.

Beano

The gardai are extremely lenient on people who are publicly intoxicated. Unless somebody is an immediate danger to themselves they will just leave them alone. Just be grateful they dont take the heavy-handed approach american police to public drunkenness.

PhilosophyBro

That's fair enough and thanks for clearing that up.

I think since the guards have the power to do it, there should be some transparency or accountability. Not just a one way thing where the guards can do whatever they like.

coylemj

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

That's fair enough and thanks for clearing that up.

I think since the guards have the power to do it, there should be some transparency or accountability. Not just a one way thing where the guards can do whatever they like.

You mean they should be required to phone for a doctor to certify that the guy is drunk?

And then what?

What % would you estimate would be certified to be sober and immediately released on to the streets?

It doesn't seem to have occurred to you that your friend was arrested taken off the streets by the Gardai for being drunk his own safety yet here you are defending him and questioning the right of the Gardai to do what they did.

It didn't cross your mind that your friend is giving you a sob story about police high-handedness instead of feeling guilty for wasting their time?

Beano

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

That's fair enough and thanks for clearing that up.

I think since the guards have the power to do it, there should be some transparency or accountability. Not just a one way thing where the guards can do whatever they like.

What is not transparent and how are they not accountable?

PhilosophyBro

My point was that if a person isn't a danger to themselves they can still be arrested for being drunk in public. And then who's to know? It's all just very vague.

Little CuChulainn

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

My point was that if a person isn't a danger to themselves they can still be arrested for being drunk in public. And then who's to know? It's all just very vague.

Legally they cannot be arrested for simply being drunk in public. The legislation requires that there is reason to believe they are a danger to themselves or others.

PhilosophyBro

I was reading this and it seemed interesting. What do ye think?

Google: police-history-studies-garda-violence-reform

and its the first link.

By the way, I'm not affiliated with this crowd. This is in response to the accountability question.

PhilosophyBro

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Legally they cannot be arrested for simply being drunk in public. The legislation requires that there is reason to believe they are a danger to themselves or others.

This should probably be explained to the person at some point during the arrest. From what i've heard, the guards are less clear than that and you're just shoved in a cell not knowing whats going on. Theres no need for that like. It is a bit OTT.

Little CuChulainn

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

This should probably be explained to the person at some point during the arrest. From what i've heard, the guards are less clear than that and you're just shoved in a cell not knowing whats going on. Theres no need for that like. It is a bit OTT.

It is generally explained a number of times. The downside of being so drunk as to merit an arrest is a lack of ability to follow what is going on.

Beano

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

I was reading this and it seemed interesting. What do ye think?

Google: police-history-studies-garda-violence-reform

and its the first link.

By the way, I'm not affiliated with this crowd. This is in response to the accountability question.

why is this suddenly about garda violence? and that first link comes from people i wouldnt trust to tell me the time of day.

Beano

Its all very clearly explained here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0004.html#zza2y1994s4

PhilosophyBro

Its about what happens and what the guards can get away with when they arrest someone because they are not really held accountable.

Why don't you trust that crowd?

Little CuChulainn

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

Its about what happens and what the guards can get away with when they arrest someone because they are not really held accountable.

Why don't you trust that crowd?

In what way are they not held accountable?

PhilosophyBro

Yes I've read that. And a lot of things have been cleared by now

PhilosophyBro

ok, if a guard assaults someone when he is arrested what can that person do about it?

Beano

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

ok, if a guard assaults someone when he is arrested what can that person do about it?

Complain to the Garda Ombudsman

PhilosophyBro

Ok, as far as I know, the ombudsman can only deal with complaints where the person has remembered the guards badge number.

The ombudsman is not an independent organisation, it is not apart form the guards.

Being in court with a guard that can (and does) say anything can leave you in a vulnerable position. The guards know that people will try and avoid going to court, anyway.

It's his word against the guards. They always have to have the upper hand, so nothing can be done.

SameDiff

I got blasted in Manchester and the cops just dropped me home. It was pretty embarrassing and all that, but I was grateful to them that they didn't put me in a cell. Took them 5 minutes to drop me home.

Never heard from them again either.

Much easier all round.

SameDiff

I got blasted in Manchester and the cops just dropped me home. It was pretty embarrassing and all that, but I was grateful to them that they didn't put me in a cell. Took them 5 minutes to drop me home.

Never heard from them again either.

Much easier all round.

We pay their wages to look after us, so their approach seems a lot more rational and cost effective than the Dublin method.

SameDiff

double post

PhilosophyBro

Guards should be in a position where they can't hit someone first, whether its a protest or whether its an arrest. It happens all the time. Hired heavies.

Little CuChulainn

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

Guards should be in a position where they can't hit someone first, whether its a protest or whether its an arrest. It happens all the time. Hired heavies.

How about you quit the bull**** soap boxing and just tell us how you think your way can be achieved practically. Assuming you can post it before the rereg police smack you around the place.

Gran Hermano

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

Guards should be in a position where they can't hit someone first, whether its a protest or whether its an arrest. It happens all the time. Hired heavies.

Is your issue a problem with the gardai in general or a question relating to the law on public intoxication?

PhilosophyBro

I'm an anarchist.

dquinnan

Punishment for public intoxication should be a heftier punishment than just a night in the cells and a hundred quid fine. Should be a much bigger fine and a few hours community service for wasting Garda resources by taking so little personal responsibility for your actions in getting so stupidly drunk as to cause danger to yourself or others.

efb

SameDiff wrote: »

I got blasted in Manchester and the cops just dropped me home. It was pretty embarrassing and all that, but I was grateful to them that they didn't put me in a cell. Took them 5 minutes to drop me home.

Never heard from them again either.

Much easier all round.

We pay their wages to look after us, so their approach seems a lot more rational and cost effective than the Dublin method.

How about not getting blasted and hiring a taxi?

Beano

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

Ok, as far as I know, the ombudsman can only deal with complaints where the person has remembered the guards badge number.

The ombudsman is not an independent organisation, it is not apart form the guards.

Being in court with a guard that can (and does) say anything can leave you in a vulnerable position. The guards know that people will try and avoid going to court, anyway.

It's his word against the guards. They always have to have the upper hand, so nothing can be done.

The ombudsman is independent.
http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/

Pro Hoc Vice

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

ok, if a guard assaults someone when he is arrested what can that person do about it?

Sue the state for damages, bring a private prosecution for section 2 or 3 NFO act. Complain to AGS and GSOC.

punisher5112

How has this gone from someone drunk doing nothing wrong:rolleyes: to violence and how to report and sue.


op if you or your friend was arrested which now seems highly unlikely with all this other stuff coming up.

Why not tell us what really happened.


I find this very funny a Guard shouldn't be able to hit 1st.

If someone comes at you with a knife, gun, crow bar, screw driver etc etc do you let them stick it in 1st or do you defend yourself as best you can.


If this were to happen I would not hesitate in taking action.

If there is something that has been done on you and is wrong then do take action but the whole thing smells a bit to me.

SameDiff

efb wrote: »

How about not getting blasted and hiring a taxi?

Hire a taxi? I was ballooned, I didn't know where I was. They took me home for my own safety, god bless 'em.

Timberrrrrrrr

SameDiff wrote: »

Hire a taxi? I was ballooned, I didn't know where I was. They took me home for my own safety, god bless 'em.

And therein lies your problem, When you drink so much that you need to be bought home by the police it's maybe time to take a look at yourself. I'm sure you had a great laugh the next day with your mates telling them how the old bill bought you home but in all honesty people who get that drunk and waste emergency response resources are nothing but a drain on society.

What's needed is drunk tanks where people that get into that state can be thrown into, Next morning when nice and sober they should be bought to special criminal courts where they can be charged with drunk and disorderly and receive a nice hefty fine for their troubles.

Peregrinus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And therein lies your problem, When you drink so much that you need to be bought home by the police it's maybe time to take a look at yourself. I'm sure you had a great laugh the next day with your mates telling them how the old bill bought you home but in all honesty people who get that drunk and waste emergency response resources are nothing but a drain on society.

What's needed is drunk tanks where people that get into that state can be thrown into, Next morning when nice and sober they should be bought to special criminal courts where they can be charged with drunk and disorderly and receive a nice hefty fine for their troubles.

They can't be charged with being drunk and disorderly unless they are disorderly. And nothing SameDiff says suggests that he was disorderly. If he had been, I doubt that the result would have been a lift home.

Timberrrrrrrr

Peregrinus wrote: »

They can't be charged with being drunk and disorderly unless they are disorderly. And nothing SameDiff says suggests that he was disorderly. If he had been, I doubt that the result would have been a lift home.

You're right


No need to be "Disorderly"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/public_order_offenses_in_ireland.html

Public order offences in Ireland

The law on public order offences in Ireland is mainly set down in the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994. This legislation deals with the behaviour of people in public places in Ireland and provides for various controls to be exercised at public events. The main purpose of the Act was as follows:

Intoxication (being drunk) in a public place
Section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 deals with the offence of being intoxicated (that is, drunk) in a public place. While the maximum fine for being intoxicated in a public place in Ireland is a class E fine, the section gives the Gardai the power to seize the intoxicating substance (normally, the alcohol) where they suspect that an offence of being intoxicated in a public place is being committed.

Section 23B has been inserted in the Act by section 184 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and provides for a fixed charge fine instead of court proceedings for being intoxicated in a public place. This fixed charge fine, currently €100, may be set and varied by the Minister for Justice and Equality.

Raise that fine by 5x and see incidents of idiots being so drunk they need to be bought home by the police drop rapidly.

Zambia

PhilosophyBro wrote: »

I'm an anarchist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADmchFd4WxE

SameDiff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And therein lies your problem, When you drink so much that you need to be bought home by the police it's maybe time to take a look at yourself. I'm sure you had a great laugh the next day with your mates telling them how the old bill bought you home but in all honesty people who get that drunk and waste emergency response resources are nothing but a drain on society.

What's needed is drunk tanks where people that get into that state can be thrown into, Next morning when nice and sober they should be bought to special criminal courts where they can be charged with drunk and disorderly and receive a nice hefty fine for their troubles.

...wasting a lot more time and costing a lot more money than just dropping me home. I wasn't using it as a taxi service you know?! If you read what I said you would know I wasn't bragging about it. It took 5 minutes and I was grateful they didn't make a big palaver out of it, like you are suggesting they should have.

Timberrrrrrrr

SameDiff wrote: »

...wasting a lot more time and costing a lot more money than just dropping me home. I wasn't using it as a taxi service you know?! If you read what I said you would know I wasn't bragging about it. It took 5 minutes and I was grateful they didn't make a big palaver out of it, like you are suggesting they should have.

****ing right they should have! Idiots getting drunk to the point of being incapable of walking home cost millions every year between tying up police time to tying up hospitals due to stupidity.

I would rather see that money spent on holding cells for drunks and the money raked back in hefty fines would offset most of the cost. As i said most would think twice about getting that drunk again if they had been hit with a €500/€1000 fine.

2Mad2BeMad

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And therein lies your problem, When you drink so much that you need to be bought home by the police it's maybe time to take a look at yourself. I'm sure you had a great laugh the next day with your mates telling them how the old bill bought you home but in all honesty people who get that drunk and waste emergency response resources are nothing but a drain on society.

What's needed is drunk tanks where people that get into that state can be thrown into, Next morning when nice and sober they should be bought to special criminal courts where they can be charged with drunk and disorderly and receive a nice hefty fine for their troubles.

And you're the perfect angel are you? Get off you're high horse. Everyone gets wasted at least once in their life. Hardly need to change you're entire lifes perspective over 1 night of getting hammered. You must be one of them cranky owl gits who gives out about everything. Try enjoy life :L

Timberrrrrrrr

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

And you're the perfect angel are you? Get off you're high horse. Everyone gets wasted at least once in their life. Hardly need to change you're entire lifes perspective over 1 night of getting hammered. You must be one of them cranky owl gits who gives out about everything. Try enjoy life :L

Nope not an Angel in the least, I've just never been so drunk that i don't know what's happening around me or incapable of putting one foot in front of the other. This may come as a surprise to you but here's the thing


Don't tell anyone ok it's a secret


You actually DON'T have to get rat arsed, stupid falling down drunk.......ever!

If you do CHOOSE to get into that state and you are so bad that you are a danger to yourself and others then you should be locked away in a nice comfy cell for the night to sleep it off. The next morning you would have the chance to explain to the nice judge why you were not able to walk and he/she can then give you a hefty fine to see the error of your ways. That's the problem with this country, Many people think it's natural to get falling over drunk on a night out.

SameDiff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope not an Angel in the least, I've just never been so drunk that i don't know what's happening around me or incapable of putting one foot in front of the other. This may come as a surprise to you but here's the thing


Don't tell anyone ok it's a secret


You actually DON'T have to get rat arsed, stupid falling down drunk.......ever!

If you do CHOOSE to get into that state and you are so bad that you are a danger to yourself and others then you should be locked away in a nice comfy cell for the night to sleep it off. The next morning you would have the chance to explain to the nice judge why you were not able to walk and he/she can then give you a hefty fine to see the error of your ways. That's the problem with this country, Many people think it's natural to get falling over drunk on a night out.

Is that you Cliff Richard?

Little CuChulainn

Intoxication is the single biggest consumer of Garda resources. Public order, drink driving, domestic violence and health calls. 95% of these will involve the person drinking too much. In all the suicides I've attended the person has been drunk. In the majority of assaults I've dealt with, drink has been the catalyst. And lets not forget the time wasted by the health services on drunks. You can say it's all in a bit of fun but alcohol consumption is by far the biggest problem in this country and brings more misery to people every day than anything else.

Timberrrrrrrr

SameDiff wrote: »

Is that you Cliff Richard?

Cliff Richard doesn't drink alcohol afaik, I do.

Should these lads just be left to go on their merry way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5mmzqfZrdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SPjy5RlqFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a7l7IHXZwk

The other fella

Its illegal to be drunk in a public place and they sell intoxicating alcohol in public houses.... What a country!

Timberrrrrrrr

The other fella wrote: »

Its illegal to be drunk in a public place and they sell intoxicating alcohol in public houses.... What a country!

You can have an alcoholic drink and not be drunk


DUCY?

Beano

The other fella wrote: »

Its illegal to be drunk in a public place and they sell intoxicating alcohol in public houses.... What a country!

you do realise that it is possible to drink intoxicating liquor without getting falling down, danger to yourself and others, drunk?

Little CuChulainn

The other fella wrote: »

Its illegal to be drunk in a public place and they sell intoxicating alcohol in public houses.... What a country!

It's not illegal to be drunk. How hard is it to comprehend? It's illegal to be drunk to such an extent to be a danger to yourself or others. Incidentally, bars are not allowed serve people in that state either.

jobbridge4life

Beano wrote: »

you do realise that it is possible to drink intoxicating liquor without getting falling down, danger to yourself and others, drunk?

Aye but then whats the point?