Damage to rented house

MarthaMyDear

Hi,

I have a question about damage in a rented house that a friend of mine is renting. Basically there is a large glass door on the bath (you know the kind that keeps water in if you're showering) and this was never very secure. It was fitted by the landlord himself and didn't really work at keeping the water in but it was never an issue because they didn't use the bath in that bathroom much. The other day their child was getting off the toilet and pushed off the glass door as he was getting off as the bath is right beside the toilet and the whole door fell and smashed off the sink. The glass door didn't break but there is now a large hole in the sink.

The landlady is saying it isn't her responsibility to replace the sink and my friend is saying it is because it was an accident due to the door not being properly secured. I think the landlady thinks the child was messing with the door or swinging out of it but my friend who was standing at the bathroom door says he literally just hit off it as he was holding onto the bath to get off the toilet (he's a toddler).

I hope that makes sense as I wasn't there at the time! Anyone have any info on who is in the right? I have no idea myself so thought here would be a good place to ask for advice then pass it onto her The landlord is coming over to the house next week to take a look at the sink which will definitely need replacing!

Michael D Not Higgins

Offer to pay half. The door may not have been secure, but it was the tenant's responsibility to notify the landlord and have it rectified. As I see it, action of the landlord left the hazard, action of the tenants broke the sink. 50/50.

Mrs OBumble

I'd see it as 100% tenant responsibility - unless the tenant has previously notified the LL that the door was not properly fitted.

This is one of the risks of not telling the LL when something is broken.

shruikan2553

Did you tell the LL about it previously?

hfallada

OP if you go to any builders merchant (not a DIY store). Something like Buckleys or Chadwichs or PH Rosses(probably the cheapeast). A sink can be got for as little as 30-40(often cheaper as they have custom orders never collected and the goods are sold for super cheap,eg €300 toilet for €50). A sink shouldnt that expensive to get a plumber to install. Try trademens.ie for a cheap quote.

handlemaster

I love these posts because right off the bat there is a quasi denial as if the Landlord was at fault, even though it was the tenant that broke it.

ted1

hfallada wrote: »

OP if you go to any builders merchant (not a DIY store). Something like Buckleys or Chadwichs or PH Rosses(probably the cheapeast). A sink can be got for as little as 30-40(often cheaper as they have custom orders never collected and the goods are sold for super cheap,eg €300 toilet for €50). A sink shouldnt that expensive to get a plumber to install. Try trademens.ie for a cheap quote.

She must replace like for like. If it was an you can't replace expensive with cheap, or one that msy be different and not match the rest of the room.

She failed to notify the landlord so it's the tenants fault

Lux23

Might have been a cheap sink to begin with.

handlemaster

Lux23 wrote: »

Might have been a cheap sink to begin with.

Thats OK so

messrs

just because your friend said the child wasn't swinging out of it, doesn't mean that was the case, im not saying she is lying , but how is the LL to know? as far as im aware anything the tenant breaks/damages it is then their responsibility to replace ( at least that was the case when I used to Rent)

MarthaMyDear

handlemaster wrote: »

I love these posts because right off the bat there is a quasi denial as if the Landlord was at fault, even though it was the tenant that broke it.

It's not even me that I'm talking about, I have no idea who should pay for it which is why I'm asking. I'm just passing on the story my friend told the landlord as she obviously doesn't want to pay for it.

And to answer the other questions no they never let the landlord know the door wasn't secured properly. They are leaving the house soon so I can imagine the landlord saying that they will take it out of the deposit would that be fair enough?

Apparently the landlord is coming to inspect the whole place this week as they are now concerned, this family have lived here for 5 years and the landlord has never inspected before now! There has also never been any issues apart from asking once to get some carpet replaced but I don't think the landlord is happy about the sink at all!!

MarthaMyDear

Also they don't have a lease as the landlord never renewed it after the first year.

GreenwayM

Think of it this way:

If it was your own house and the door was badly hung and you were aware that it was badly hung. the following, IMHO, applies:

Not telling the LandLord = Ignoring the problem hoping it will go away

Falling and breaking the sink = if it was your own house and the sink got broken because the badly hung door, which you have been ignoring, fell on it YOU would be out of pocket. Why would the LandLord be out of pocket.

MarthaMyDear

GreenwayM wrote: »

Think of it this way:

If it was your own house and the door was badly hung and you were aware that it was badly hung. the following, IMHO, applies:

Not telling the LandLord = Ignoring the problem hoping it will go away

Falling and breaking the sink = if it was your own house and the sink got broken because the badly hung door, which you have been ignoring, fell on it YOU would be out of pocket. Why would the LandLord be out of pocket.

Definitely a good point! I think what they are trying to tell the landlord is that they didn't think the door would ever fall. The only issue they had was that it never really worked at it's purpose but this wasn't too big of a deal. Now they're saying it can't have been secured properly if a toddler pushing off it could bring it crashing down. Does that make any difference?

Basically, I think they knew it wasn't fitted great but didn't think it was at risk of ever falling or they would have let the landlord know.

shruikan2553

If they had told the LL it was loose then I would blame the LL for not getting it fixed. If they didn't tell the LL then it would be on them.

Wabbit Ears

TBH I would have fixed the sink and shower door and never said nowt to the landlord about the kid wrecking the gaff.

Unfortunately I grew up with a sense of personal responsibility, Its so out of fashion these days.

MouseTail

MarthaMyDear wrote: »

Now they're saying it can't have been secured properly if a toddler pushing off it could bring it crashing down. Does that make any difference?

.

No, they didn't inform the LL it wasn't fitted correctly, and the LL would be reasonable to assume it broke due to negligence from the tenants. On the tenants 100%.
I would have fixed the screen myself, small job to secure it to the wall, particularly if I had a small child.

blindside88

Was the screen there when they moved in or was it recently added. You say they are in the house 5 years, if it was there when they moved in it mustn't have been too badly fitted. Tenant at fault as far as I can see

handlemaster

they will keep going until they can come up with a good enough excuse that the damage was the fault of the Landlord.

Rob Thomas

If they are in the house for 5 years and never raised the issue previously then I think this is the tenants responsibility to replace like for like.

The door can't have been that bad if it hasn't raised an issue in 5 years. And if it was fitted during the tenancy then that was the time to advise that it was not up to standard, not after it's been knocked down.

The lease not being renewed is not an issue for the tenants rights and it's irrelevant in respect of this issue. I don't see why it's been added to the argument. It certainly doesn't make the issue of the door any more or less anyone's fault.

sassyj

Landlord cannot rectify a problem they know nothing about. As others have said, 5 years there, can't have been a big issue, if your friend saw it getting loose, should have repaired it.

MarthaMyDear wrote: »

Also they don't have a lease as the landlord never renewed it after the first year.

What has this to do with anything?? I've seen this wedged in on posts here as if it somehow gets tenants out of their responsibilities.