Recruitment Agencies

Gael23 · 22-10-2014 3:55pm #1

What are peoples opinions on going this route?
A few days ago I applied for a number of jobs on Jobs.ie and within 10 minutes received a phone call from a recruiter about one of the roles I had applied for. I wasn't suited to this particular role but he had another role with the same role which he thought I was a suitable candidate for.
This led to a Skype conversation yesterday and my CV will now be sent to the company and, should I get a face to face interview, he's going to meet me for a sort of coaching session beforehand.

My question really is that is there a catch to being employed through an agency?

From what I know so far it looks like a win/win situation for me: Im dealing with someone that is going to gee me help in preparing for the interview but its also in his interests for me to get the job. He did say I would be paid through them which I thought was odd. I don't know if I'm allowed name the agency but I will if its allowed?

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-10-2014 3:58pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on going this route?
A few days ago I applied for a number of jobs on Jobs.ie and within 10 minutes received a phone call from a recruiter about one of the roles I had applied for. I wasn't suited to this particular role but he had another role with the same role which he thought I was a suitable candidate for.
This led to a Skype conversation yesterday and my CV will now be sent to the company and, should I get a face to face interview, he's going to meet me for a sort of coaching session beforehand.

My question really is that is there a catch to being employed through an agency?

From what I know so far it looks like a win/win situation for me: Im dealing with someone that is going to gee me help in preparing for the interview but its also in his interests for me to get the job. He did say I would be paid through them which I thought was odd. I don't know if I'm allowed name the agency but I will if its allowed?

You would be an agency worker in the company. It's perfectly legit. You still have the same employment rights and holiday pay etc.

realthbr · 22-10-2014 4:01pm

Can u tell me what agency it is. I'd like to contact them.

OldNotWIse · 22-10-2014 4:03pm

If you are paid through the agency then you will be considered an employee of the agency, which means you wont have the same entitlements as a permanent counterpart working in the same company. The reason why he is so interested and is helping you out is because the agency will make commission on you.

uck51js9zml2yt · 22-10-2014 4:04pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

If you are paid through the agency then you will be considered an employee of the agency, which means you wont have the same entitlements as a permanent counterpart working in the same company.

True but they still have rights with regards the agency.

OldNotWIse · 22-10-2014 4:07pm

Kase Cuddly Rope wrote: »

True but they still have rights with regards the agency.

I know that. I am pointing out that you don't have the same rights as someone doing the same job employed directly by the company.

Gael23 · 22-10-2014 4:09pm

So would my employment t&c's be those of the agency of the company where I would be working?

smcgiff · 22-10-2014 4:14pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

So would my employment t&c's be those of the agency of the company where I would be working?

It would be a contract with the agency. This is normally done with short term employment.

smcgiff · 22-10-2014 4:15pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know that. I am pointing out that you don't have the same rights as someone doing the same job employed directly by the company.

He has the same rights, but maybe different conditions.

Gael23 · 22-10-2014 4:16pm

smcgiff wrote: »

It would be a contract with the agency. This is normally done with sort term employment.

Its an initial 12 month contract with a view to permanency.

OldNotWIse · 22-10-2014 4:21pm

smcgiff wrote: »

He has the same rights, but maybe different conditions.

What rights are you referring to then?

Gael23 · 22-10-2014 8:10pm

The Job Description says its a contract with a view to permanency so if that were to happen would I then be an employee of the company itself?

smcgiff · 22-10-2014 9:49pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

What rights are you referring to then?

Employment law rights. What rights are you talking about.

ryanf1 wrote: »

Its an initial 12 month contract with a view to permanency.

I'd imagine that once permanent you'd be an employee of the company.

rachblue · 23-10-2014 12:00am

I'm employed through a recruitment agency, originally it was a six month contract, now its been extended by five months. I have had no problems with them, if I have any queries I email the person I dealt with and she gets back pretty much straight away. I signed a contract with the agency, not the employer so I'm not actually employed by the company, the recruitment agency is my employer. As I am employed by the agency I don't have the same benefits as permanent staff employed by the company such as free health care. I don't know if I will be made permanent but I have been told it is a possibility. Don't know if that helps. I also get paid weekly which really helps manage my money

OldNotWIse · 23-10-2014 8:53am

OP you might find this useful:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/types_of_employment/agency_workers.html

CatFromHue · 23-10-2014 9:56am

ryanf1 wrote: »

The Job Description says its a contract with a view to permanency so if that were to happen would I then be an employee of the company itself?

I'd imagine so.

Agencies do hire people and then employ them and contract them out to a company but these tend to be temp jobs. In this situation you give time sheets to the agency.

Agencies also just source people and then send them to interview with their client company and then the client company would hire them as an employee directly. As you're getting interview prep I'd imagine this is the case. The agency would then get a finders fee from the company if you get the job.

If you've any doubts just send an email to the agency.

cob1 · 23-10-2014 4:23pm

if the money and conditions suits go for it. one thing about going through an agency is that your career prospects and career development is low. you are there to do a job, cheaply and without the hassle of giving you the benefits of permanent staff... when it comes to training and devlopment the companies permanent staff will always get preference, you will be a 2nd class citizen in relation to these employees. and don't believe anyone when they say 12 months with a view to permancy, never happens. there's no incentive to make you permanent when you are demonstrating you are happy enough to work through an agency. you'll get a permanent job by applying for one, probably elsewhere

a lot dpends on your industry? your experience? your goals etc?

some industries you might be better being an independent contractor and getting more money on a daily rate basis, settin up as a limited company?

I do think agency staff often get the worst of both worlds, the low pay of a permanent role with none of the security, the career development and prospects. But in lots of industries it could be the only thing offered at present.

Gael23 · 23-10-2014 6:03pm

cob1 wrote: »

if the money and conditions suits go for it. one thing about going through an agency is that your career prospects and career development is low. you are there to do a job, cheaply and without the hassle of giving you the benefits of permanent staff... when it comes to training and devlopment the companies permanent staff will always get preference, you will be a 2nd class citizen in relation to these employees. and don't believe anyone when they say 12 months with a view to permancy, never happens. there's no incentive to make you permanent when you are demonstrating you are happy enough to work through an agency. you'll get a permanent job by applying for one, probably elsewhere

a lot dpends on your industry? your experience? your goals etc?

some industries you might be better being an independent contractor and getting more money on a daily rate basis, settin up as a limited company?

I do think agency staff often get the worst of both worlds, the low pay of a permanent role with none of the security, the career development and prospects. But in lots of industries it could be the only thing offered at present.

These are some of my fears, that it will basically lead nowhere, although having said that I have seen more experienced roles with the agency and direct with the company in question that I could potentially move into.
Im just out of college a few months ago so i'm looking to make that first break. My area would be accountancy/financial services.

smcgiff · 23-10-2014 6:09pm

cob1 wrote: »

one thing about going through an agency is that your career prospects and career development is low.

Only relative to the permanent employees at this company. Most likely it's a great move for the OP.

cob1 · 24-10-2014 8:11am

ryanf1 wrote: »

These are some of my fears, that it will basically lead nowhere, although having said that I have seen more experienced roles with the agency and direct with the company in question that I could potentially move into.
Im just out of college a few months ago so i'm looking to make that first break. My area would be accountancy/financial services.

accountancy/financial is an area I don't know much about myself so others could advise better. but I would just be very sceptical about any offers of being made permanent. an agency will say almost anything to get you to take the role so that they start earning their percentage. come 12 months of whatever the permanent role will be pushed out another 6 months, or worse the company will get new people in for it because you're tied to the agency (the company might have to pay off the agency in order to make you permanent). go for the job if it's good pay/money/experience, but if a permanent job is your goal keep applying for other ones. have no qualms about walking out of an agency role for a permanent one at any time, if companies want you to stay long term they shouldn't hire through agencies.

Clearlier · 24-10-2014 8:25am

cob1 wrote: »

accountancy/financial is an area I don't know much about myself so others could advise better. but I would just be very sceptical about any offers of being made permanent. an agency will say almost anything to get you to take the role so that they start earning their percentage. come 12 months of whatever the permanent role will be pushed out another 6 months, or worse the company will get new people in for it because you're tied to the agency (the company might have to pay off the agency in order to make you permanent). go for the job if it's good pay/money/experience, but if a permanent job is your goal keep applying for other ones. have no qualms about walking out of an agency role for a permanent one at any time, if companies want you to stay long term they shouldn't hire through agencies.

They will have to pay off the agency for sure. However, if you've proven yourself they'll be happy to do that because there's a cost to recruitment any way that you look at it and the biggest cost of recruitment is fixing it after a mistake has been made. Any sensible company will go with what they know ahead of what they don't know.

Granted here I'm talking about logic and being sensible neither of which are guaranteed but I wouldn't be put off by the thought that you'd be less attractive to hire as a permanent employee because you've already been working for a company through an agency.

cob1 · 24-10-2014 8:41am

it might be the sensible thing to make agency staff permanent, but I can only say I've never seen it happen. while I know a couple of people who have been great workers and performed better than the permanent staff, but we're never made permanent despite what had been promised to them. if you are a great worker AND seem content to work through an agency (ie helping keep total headcount down for the benefit of head office) whats the incentive to change it? just be aware of it. the point they are most likely to make you permanent is when you have another job offer and you are giving your notice.

Clearlier · 24-10-2014 8:58am

cob1 wrote: »

it might be the sensible thing to make agency staff permanent, but I can only say I've never seen it happen. while I know a couple of people who have been great workers and performed better than the permanent staff, but we're never made permanent despite what had been promised to them. if you are a great worker AND seem content to work through an agency (ie helping keep total headcount down for the benefit of head office) whats the incentive to change it? just be aware of it. the point they are most likely to make you permanent is when you have another job offer and you are giving your notice.

I've seen it happen lots of times but mostly when the economy was growing and the company was expanding. If the company is retrenching then obviously there's not much chance and your point about negotiating is relevant.

Negotiating by handing in your notice is a tactic used by permanent employees too. Got to be careful though I've seen that go spectacularly well and spectacularly badly! Less of a risk for an agency worker perhaps as they haven't as much to lose.

Gael23 · 24-10-2014 11:43am

Well I potentially have an opportunity to join a graduate programme in Sept 2015, so if I was to get that it would be a 3 year contract which I guess I could use as a bargaining tool.
In my position at the moment I cant afford to be to fussy about not being made permanent I suppose but it would be nice to know it leads somewhere.

Am I allowed name the Company here?

CatFromHue · 24-10-2014 11:53am

Prob best not to name the company as it wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out who you are with that user name.

Three years for a grad program! Yikes that's long. I thought 2 was the standard.

cob1 · 24-10-2014 12:02pm

it probably doesn't matter what the company is, so you might be better not to mention it. like you say if you cannot be fussy, then better to be earning money and gaining experience over sitting idle. easier to get a new job if you already have one for sure. if you get on the graduate program in 2015 then jump on it.

but you seem to think the agency work has a good chance of leading somewhere, I doubt it. understand that a recruitment agency makes a commission on placing you in the job and a decent commission on every paycheque you earn for the duration you stay, they want you to take the job and stay there, they will say whatever necessary, white lies etc. to achieve this. they do serve a purpose and not all are as evil as some people make out, but this is their motivation.

two stories I know of from direct experience:
person takes job through recruitment agency for 6 months with "view to being made permanent". when they start they find out they are just covering maternity leave, there was never a permanent role. other person returns from maternity leave and the contract is ended even before 6 months with only the notice period given. what do you do, sue the agency? there was no permanent job and no contract for one

person takes contract through an agency, they only take this job because they are told by agency there is a better role coming up in 3 months that they will get. person does so well on the more junior role the company decides to keep them there and hire someone else for the better role. luckily they found a better role and left. when leaving the company then decides to offer them the role they had been promised but it's too late.

bottom line is agencies are about their commission and not your career. if the two are compatible go for it. sounds to me like you should take the job, but still apply for graduate programs with the same effort as if you were unemployed. you don't even have to hide the fact that you are doing that.

Gael23 · 24-10-2014 12:57pm

I know the recruiter wants to make their commission but he told me the role I initially applied for wasn't suitable for me as I didn't have enough experience but he had this one that was. This makes me think if in 12 months time a similar role comes up and I have experience, then I can move up the ranks into it.

The grad programme is a training contract with the Big4 accounting firms so that would be for 3.5 years if I was to get it.

cob1 · 24-10-2014 1:33pm

i would not think the way you are thinking. just because a recruiter told you you weren't suitable for one role. this does not make me think you would move up the ranks in 12 months, i dont' see how you get this impression.

from what small bit i know about your industry i think a grad program is what you should be aiming for. take this job of course, but keep applying for everything out there, otherwise they will pass you by and you could end up in a dead end company. This company cares so little about the work you will be doing to even hire permanent staff for it, that says a lot. other companies compete to get the best grads and put them through training programs.

Gael23 · 24-10-2014 4:38pm

What I meant about progression was the reason I wasn't suited to the initial role I app,iced for was that I didn't have enough experience. So if I get this one, then I have a years experience behind me so I can potentially move into other roles if they are available.
The issue with grad programs is many of them have a fairly cut throath 2:1 policy, which I don't have so its going to be difficult for me to go that route.
If I was lucky enough to get a graduate program would I have issues on my hands by ending another contract early?

24-10-2014 6:09pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

What I meant about progression was the reason I wasn't suited to the initial role I app,iced for was that I didn't have enough experience. So if I get this one, then I have a years experience behind me so I can potentially move into other roles if they are available.
The issue with grad programs is many of them have a fairly cut throath 2:1 policy, which I don't have so its going to be difficult for me to go that route.
If I was lucky enough to get a graduate program would I have issues on my hands by ending another contract early?

It's bad form but a company will never chase you up on it.

Gael23 · 24-10-2014 6:48pm

Harper Rough Sealskin wrote: »

It's bad form but a company will never chase you up on it.

On what???

Gael23 · 24-10-2014 10:24pm

Ive found the role advertised with a different agency so that gives me some reassurance that its all above board. Reading stories of people being informed of jobs that don't exist made me a little nervous.

25-10-2014 8:46am

ryanf1 wrote: »

On what???

Breaking your contract. That is what you were asking about right?

Gael23 · 25-10-2014 8:57am

Harper Rough Sealskin wrote: »

Breaking your contract. That is what you were asking about right?

Yes just didn't pick you up properly.

cob1 · 25-10-2014 9:16am

ryanf1 wrote: »

Yes just didn't pick you up properly.

You wont be breaking a contract, there would be a one month notice period whether your through a agency or not.

Gael23 · 25-10-2014 9:30am

cob1 wrote: »

You wont be breaking a contract, there would be a one month notice period whether your through a agency or not.

If I was to find myself in that situation, I would say to the recruiter or company that I have been offered the position and while its slightly less money ( would be about 2k less to begin with), its a 3 year contract so offers me more security and basically say I will have to accept it unless you are going make me permanent following the initial contract.

Clearlier · 27-10-2014 8:52am

ryanf1 wrote: »

If I was to find myself in that situation, I would say to the recruiter or company that I have been offered the position and while its slightly less money ( would be about 2k less to begin with), its a 3 year contract so offers me more security and basically say I will have to accept it unless you are going make me permanent following the initial contract.

That would need to be immediately. Can't expect a company to make and keep a promise months in advance. Even with the best will in the world things happen and circumstances change. I also wouldn't mention lower money if it were the case.

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-10-2014 8:56am

Kase Cuddly Rope wrote: »

You would be an agency worker in the company. It's perfectly legit. You still have the same employment rights and holiday pay etc.

contractors don't get paid for holidays/bank holidays.

27-10-2014 9:20am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

contractors don't get paid for holidays/bank holidays.

That doesn't sound right at all to me. If you work you'll accrue holiday pay. Everyone has an entitlement to that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-10-2014 10:28am

Harper Rough Sealskin wrote: »

That doesn't sound right at all to me. If you work you'll accrue holiday pay. Everyone has an entitlement to that.

Contractors (in IT anyway) work for themselves and therefore don't accrue holiday pay. I worked contract work and if i took a day off or a bank holiday came along then i didn't get paid for it.

27-10-2014 10:46am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Contractors (in IT anyway) work for themselves and therefore don't accrue holiday pay. I worked contract work and if i took a day off or a bank holiday came along then i didn't get paid for it.

Ah well we're talking about two different things then, that's completely different to being employed by an agency.

Gael23 · 27-10-2014 11:12am

Harper Rough Sealskin wrote: »

Ah well we're talking about two different things then, that's completely different to being employed by an agency.

Are there things you are not entitled to when employed by an agency?

27-10-2014 11:22am

ryanf1 wrote: »

Are there things you are not entitled to when employed by an agency?

If you're employed by someone/anyone you have statutory rights to stuff like paid annual leave, etc etc. You're always entitled to these things if you're an employee.

Sometimes companies go beyond the statutory rights, so for example my last employer gave 23 days holidays when the legal entitlement is 20 days. If I worked for the company and you worked for an agency, you'd get 20 days but I'd get 23.

cob1 · 27-10-2014 12:53pm

you'll find the reason companies use agency staff is to employ people at the minimum cost that they can let go at short notice when required. in general they won't pay a pension contribution, won't pay health insurance, you won't get extra holidays days, training and any other extras like gyms etc that permanent staff would get. it would be pretty doubtful if you had genuine health issues that you would be able to get the sick leave you are entitled to. the agency will generally offer you a rolling six month contract and you might be moved from one agency to another to try and avoid any claims that you are a permanent employee. it's a very dubious practice, but what are you gonna do, take them to the court of human rights:) take it at face value, its a job for money not for loyalty or long term career development etc., dont' believe any promises about a "view to permanency", if they think they can string you along with promises like this they will

Gael23 · 27-10-2014 1:54pm

Is there no statutory entitlement to certified sick leave?
I may have to have a small procedure in the next few months but if I'm unpaid for a week or 2 that im off then will be pushing it out.

Stheno · 27-10-2014 1:58pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

Is there no statutory entitlement to certified sick leave?
I may have to have a small procedure in the next few months but if I'm unpaid for a week or 2 that im off then will be pushing it out.

There is no statutory right to sick pay, no

27-10-2014 2:11pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

Is there no statutory entitlement to certified sick leave?
I may have to have a small procedure in the next few months but if I'm unpaid for a week or 2 that im off then will be pushing it out.

Your employer doesn't have to pay you anything when you're off sick. If you've been playing PRSI I think you can claim illness benefit from the State.

cob1 · 27-10-2014 2:22pm

even if it was a permanent role, you'd be within a 6 month probation period before they would give you sick leave. I'd doubtful an agency position would give you sick leave at all, you'd be on continuous 6 month rolling contracts with no entitlements. that's how I remember it anyway.

Stheno · 27-10-2014 2:24pm

cob1 wrote: »

even if it was a permanent role, you'd be within a 6 month probation period before they would give you sick leave. I'd doubtful an agency position would give you sick leave at all, you'd be on continuous 6 month rolling contracts with no entitlements. that's how I remember it anyway.

Op could take the time as holidays?

Gael23 · 27-10-2014 2:32pm

Stheno wrote: »

Op could take the time as holidays?

That's an option I suppose. I won't have enough PRSI to get illness benefit for about a year I think.

rgmmg · 27-10-2014 4:37pm

OP - you have three options:

1 - Take the agency role (if it materialises)

2 - Continue to look for permanent roles

3 - A combination of 1 and 2.

I'd opt for 3. You get experience and paid while seeing if you like the role and company. Not sure whether an offer of permanency will materialise after 12 months (who knows?), but if you prove yourself it may be the case a role appears elsewhere in the company and you'll have your line manager to attest to your skills. In addition, not all permanent roles are advertised externally so you may be privy to those. Lastly, you can always continue to look elsewhere during your contract - short notice periods cut both ways. Always easier to get a job if you're in one and looks better on your CV. Best of luck.

Recruitment Agencies

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