Vegetarianism: where is the line drawn.

Gautama

Hi,

I've a question about vegetarianism and where the line is drawn, so to speak.
What is an what isn't a vegetarian.
To put it bluntly, do vegetarians eat fish? By fish I mean round (e.g. mackerel), flat (e.g. turbot) and/or shell (e.g. lobster).

I'm a non-vegetarian who has friends/family that are vegetarian and "seefood-vegetarian"/pescatarian (though he calls himself vegetarian).

The reason I ask is that I'm studying wine at present and food paring is my main interest in it. I've a detailed question for the tutor and I've this prepared, however I know that my example may have an interjection because of the vegetarian angle. Long story, won't let it distract me here.

LETS GET NAKED

No vegetarians don't eat fish.

Gautama

Wow, that was fast. You'd replied even before I got the poll up. Thanks.

Bacchus

Vegetarianism is what it says on the tin. No meat (including fish). As you point out yourself, Pescatarian is like a vegetarian but with fish/seafood included in the diet. You've also got flexitarianism which is a primarily veggie/plant based diet but with the occasional portion meat.

SpaceTime

This is where you'll end up in awkward situations with vegetarians when preparing food.

It means an all plant based diet although it's often not excluding things like dairy products and sometimes eggs that aren't actually meat.

A vegan diet excludes all animal products.

For restaurant menu items, you're better too design for vegans for one or two items at least.

Meat-free is starting to appear as an identifying label too which is probably more useful as a term.

Fish is a type of meat BTW.

I've even heard an old lady asking a vegetarian if he'd eat a slice of ham!

She seemed to genuinely think that it was only hot /red meat he didn't like!

Tar.Aldarion

I think the poll says it all, people saying they are vegetarian eating fish makes it hard on actual vegetarians. Things like me getting offered prawns etc. Fish is meat.

Zombienosh

Obvious poll is obvious.

--LOS--

Put simply, vegetarian (in a dietary sense but there are many other aspects) means not eating meat including fish and also often many other animal products and by-products which are less obvious and things you wouldn't consider, like jellies made from gelatine for example. It's not just fruit and vegetables either though, I would say vegetarians eat plants and dairy.

But many people misuse the term, people sometimes tell me they're vegetarian but they eat fish, even heard of people calling themselves vegan who don't eat dairy but eat fish.

The wine pairing is interesting though, because I've only ever seen wine recommendations for meat and fish.

Gautama

Well I'm glad to confirm that the poll and the useful responses have agreed 100% with my own views, i.e. if you eat fish, flesh or fowl then you are not a vegetarian.

I'm wondering where the whole concept of "fish is an honoury vegetable" came from? Does it go back to our less enlightened days of the 1980ies or what?

I once shared a house with a right odd-ball, Contrary Wan.
She was a vegetarian and I remember her saying that "eating meat is disgusting". Yet, she'd have the occasional break-out meat binge. I remember returning from a weekend away to find a half-eaten 12-pack of Big Al's Frozen Turkey Burgers in the bin.
I like meat, but I'd draw the line well before BAFTBs.

Gautama

Interestingly, animal products such as egg white and isinglass are used to fine and clarify most wines.

Slaphead07

Gautama wrote: »

Interestingly, animal products such as egg white and isinglass are used to fine and clarify most wines.

yes, and it doesn't bother most vegetarians (in my experience), perhaps because it's part of a process rather than an ingredient. It's also used in beers.

the pairing of wines is not the big subject you may think it is.... There's a lot of nonsense talked about wine (duh!) but it's as easy to "pair" wine with vegetarian dishes as it is with meat/fish/poultry. Red with fish or eggs can be a mistake but other than that your favourite wine with your favourite food with your favourite people is a good night in.

SpaceTime

I've actually come across meat-eaters who will not eat industrially produced gelatine as they don't know the origin of it.

A lot of people have ethnical issues around untraceable meats and meat derivatives, especially since the BSE crisis and the more recent horse meat scandal which would leave many questioning the supply chain's ability to control specifications of products.

In general though, when it comes to vegetarians, it's not that complicated : don't eat meat and meat includes mammals, birds, fish and insects.

Gautama

Often it isn't down to the main ingredient, but the style of the food. For example, if you are having a curry you don't want a high-alcohol wine, regardless of beef/ lamb/veg.
Though, if you are having something with radicchio, then soft tannic red is ideal.

Dozen Wicked Words

Vegetarian would also mean not eating jellies with gelatine in or cheese with animal rennet, or puddings with animal suet etc etc etc.

--LOS--

Gautama wrote: »

Well I'm glad to confirm that the poll and the useful responses have agreed 100% with my own views, i.e. if you eat fish, flesh or fowl then you are not a vegetarian.

I'm wondering where the whole concept of "fish is an honoury vegetable" came from? Does it go back to our less enlightened days of the 1980ies or what?

I once shared a house with a right odd-ball, Contrary Wan.
She was a vegetarian and I remember her saying that "eating meat is disgusting". Yet, she'd have the occasional break-out meat binge. I remember returning from a weekend away to find a half-eaten 12-pack of Big Al's Frozen Turkey Burgers in the bin.
I like meat, but I'd draw the line well before BAFTBs.

Lots of people still view fish as a lesser animal, they're not very relatable I suppose that's why. You can't read emotion/feeling from their faces like you could with other animals. It's far easier for people to recognise the sociability and intelligence of large marine animals like dolphins and whales. But fish are still feeling, social and intelligent animals. I know plenty of ecology students worried about the dwindling fish populations, but they're still eating fish!

People like that, probably just say vegetarian for convenience, sounds like they haven't much considered it anyway.

Gautama wrote: »

Interestingly, animal products such as egg white and isinglass are used to fine and clarify most wines.

Most vegetarians I think would be aware of the issue with beer and wine, not all would avoid non-veggie beer/wine though, some would draw the line there, depends on how strict you are.

TheNibbler

I'm a pescatarian but usually describe my diet as such- 'I'm a vegetarian but I eat fish'. It makes life easier, usually got confused faces when describing myself as a pescatarian in the past.

SpaceTime

Fish aren't lesser animals.

I remember playing with a ray in an aquarium in France. It literally came up to the surface to be petted, interacted with people, followed you around looking at you in the glass observation tubes.

Many fish species also have extremely sophisticated social behaviours, some even use colour flashes to communicate.

Fish aren't lesser, they're just different.

I think we've a bit of an issue with seeing animals that we can relate to as 'nice' and ones we can't as edible.

I mean, what's the difference between having a fish sandwich from some very intelligent species of fish and snacking on Tiddles, the friendly cat?