Renting a room 'problem'

keith o h

hi,
im not sure if i am posting this in the right section as i am new to this but sure, her it goes.
i am currently renting a room along with two of my friends who are also renting in the same house. the place we are renting is an extension onto an estate house and the two parts (old and new) are joined by a sliding patio door. (both can be accessed from the one entrance) however this door is alway locked, only allowing us access to the 3 bedroom extension with or own living area and bathroom. this is the part that im unsure about. the landlady was wondering why my bedroom door was locked, because she wanted to let people sleep in the room that i was renting, i dont really like the idea of this going on during the weekends when im returning home to galway for the weekend should this be allowed? in the add for the letting it mentioned 5 days a week but we where never told about other people staying in my room. there is no contract or anything signed either if that makes any difference.
any help with this situation is appreciated.

Afroshack

keith o h wrote: »

hi,
im not sure if i am posting this in the right section as i am new to this but sure, her it goes.
i am currently renting a room along with two of my friends who are also renting in the same house. the place we are renting is an extension onto an estate house and the two parts (old and new) are joined by a sliding patio door. (both can be accessed from the one entrance) however this door is alway locked, only allowing us access to the 3 bedroom extension with or own living area and bathroom. this is the part that im unsure about. the landlady was wondering why my bedroom door was locked, because she wanted to let people sleep in the room that i was renting, i dont really like the idea of this going on during the weekends when im returning home to galway for the weekend should this be allowed? in the add for the letting it mentioned 5 days a week but we where never told about other people staying in my room. there is no contract or anything signed either if that makes any difference.
any help with this situation is appreciated.

It's the landlady's house, she can legally do as she pleases.

The_Conductor

If you took the room and it stated in its terms- that it was for a 5 day week- it is for a 5 day week, and what happens outside of these 5 days is the business of the landlady

Mrs OBumble

keith o h wrote: »

in the add for the letting it mentioned 5 days a week but we where never told about other people staying in my room.

So you thought it would be a five-day rental, and you would have access the other days too???

keith o h

the fact that theres noting signed would this have and effect? and the fact that shes not issuing me with receipts for the rent paid?

Beaner1

This isn't a rent a room scheme and the landlord should be reported to revenue.

The_Conductor

Beaner1 wrote: »

This isn't a rent a room scheme and the landlord should be reported to revenue.

From the details supplied by the OP (thus far) it does in fact meet the requirements of the rent-a-room scheme. The landlady would have to declare the income in an annual tax return- but providing she keeps under the new 12k limit (it went up in the budget last week)- there is no tax due on it.

keith o h

we are paying €80 each a week, and what ever she is making on the weekend for the 3 rooms (we where also offered a 4th room if we knew anyone that would take it) would be coming very close to the €12,000 limit

keith o h

there has to be some law against handing over €240 a week between us and not getting any receipt for out money?

Emme

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you took the room and it stated in its terms- that it was for a 5 day week- it is for a 5 day week, and what happens outside of these 5 days is the business of the landlady

OP, if the landlady wants to let someone else sleep in the room (and presumably the bed you sleep in 5 nights a week) will she be changing the sheets before and after? I'm sure you don't want to sleep in sheets someone else has slept in and that goes for the person who would be sleeping in the bed at weekends.

Even if it's within her legal rights to have someone sleep in the room at the weekends it sounds a bit iffy. also the part where she is limiting access to the house. Here's an interesting link:

http://www.independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/a-magic-mirror-to-earning-potential-rentaroom-scheme-30296793.html

From the article:

This is because the Government stipulates that in order to qualify for the scheme, the area the lodger occupies must be linked directly into and be a part of the main residence. There must be an internal passage from the lodger's living area into the main abode, or else it is considered to be a self contained apartment and therefore liable for full taxation.

In Carmel's case, the lodging accommodation – which comprises a modern and well kitted bedroom, bathroom, and a kitchen/living area – has its own front entrance, its own rear access and a private rear garden patio.

The necessary linking door into her main residence is through the front hall of the main residence.

Note the bit in bold. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same house with a different owner letting out the rooms. If you and the other lodgers don't have full access into the house at any time then you are living in a self-contained apartment. I would check this out with Threshold or the PRTB.

keith o h

this is it, there is no changing of the sheets happening... there is a link passage alright through to the main house via a ''patio type'' sliding door however we are not allowed into the main house so im pretty sure she has her ass covered by having this door there.. by the looks of it and there research i have done, i dont have a foot to stand on in this case

Emme

keith o h wrote: »

this is it, there is no changing of the sheets happening... there is a link passage alright through to the main house via a ''patio type'' sliding door however we are not allowed into the main house so im pretty sure she has her ass covered by having this door there.. by the looks of it and there research i have done, i dont have a foot to stand on in this case

If you're not allowed into the main house you're effectively renting a 3 bedroom apartment 5 days a week, sliding patio door or not. If the sliding door is locked then you don't have access to the full house. Is it locked with a padlock or some other lock you can photograph? If not you can still check out your situation with Threshold. If all the occupants go to Threshold together and explain about the locked patio door you may have a stronger case. PRTB might not recognise you as private tenants so there's no point going there until you are more sure about your situation but your landlady is sailing very close to the wind. She's running a rooming house of sorts, you're not in a normal house share with the owner occupier.

Do you pay her in cash or through your bank account? If she's getting cash from you all and the people she wants to stay at weekends (in unwashed sheets :rolleyes: ) then she can rake as much money in as she likes, especially if she's not inclined to give receipts. If you're all paying €80 a week she's getting €12,480 per annum for this which brings her well over the new rent a room limit. If she rents out the rooms at weekends she will be getting more money again. Do you pay bills etc. on top of this? If so are they a lot? What way is the electricity paid? Is there a separate bill for the "apartment" or does she just tell you what you owe. It wouldn't surprise me if she's dividing her bill by 3 and getting the lodgers to pay it while she gets off scot free.

It might a be a good idea for you and the others to sit down, do your sums and see if you could afford to get together and rent a place - it might not be much more than what you're paying as it is and you would be able to stay there 7 days a week.

Letting different people stay in the bed at weekends and not changing sheets is risky. I'm sure she vets everyone very well but there's always a risk of bedbugs especially if she's not in the habit of changing sheets between occupants. If you're renting the room for 5 days a week it's probably not a good idea to leave stuff there at weekends.

Check your situation first before putting pressure on her to give you receipts because she might throw you out and she may feel entitled to do this. You need to know your rights in this situation.

Peter File

Rent of 240 * 52 is €12,480 so well above the current €10,000 per anum threshold and even the new threshold which comes into force in January. Do you pay any bills on top of the rent.

aunt aggie

keith o h wrote: »

there has to be some law against handing over €240 a week between us and not getting any receipt for out money?

Has anyone requested receipts?? It's the first thing I would do.

I've always been curious about 5 day lets. I imagine you would leave a lot of clothes and belongings in your room at the weekend. But it sounds like the landlady is renting the room at weekends rather than wanting her privacy. It seems very strange.

Beaner1

It's not a room, it's a standalone premises with its own entrance and facilities.

keith o h

the door is locked and we are not given any key for this door, its just the normal lock youd see on any patio door. she is skating on very thin ice to be coming in under the 12k alright especially with weekend rents iswell.. no there is going to be nothing left in the room anymore and my own bed sheets will be coming home with me if this is whats going on. it was only today when i was questioned why i had the bedroom door locked that she informed us that there would be other people staying here at the weekend. if the door was never locked we might not of even known what was going on.

aunt aggie

If anyone walked into my bedroom on a Saturday morning, they wouldnt think it was a holiday with all the dirty clothes on the floor!! Did she give you any indication of this before? Ask you to take belongings home with you at the weekend? Encourage you to not store valuables in your room? Also has anyone requested receipts?

Beaner1

From the PRTB

What is a dwelling? TOP
A "dwelling'' is a property let for rent or valuable consideration as a self-contained residential unit.
It includes any building or part of a building used as a dwelling and any out office, yard, garden or other land appurtenant to it or usually enjoyed with it.
It excludes a structure that is not permanently attached to the ground and a vessel and a vehicle (whether mobile or not).

Whosthis

I don't really understand what your problem is, you agreed to a five day rental and pay rent for 5 days but you have a problem with the landlady using the room for the other two days? The simple solution would be to rent the room for seven days.

Mrs OBumble

keith o h wrote: »

we are paying €80 each a week, and what ever she is making on the weekend for the 3 rooms (we where also offered a 4th room if we knew anyone that would take it) would be coming very close to the €12,000 limit

That's pretty cheap for Dublin. Do you really want to rock the boat?

You have no evidence that the LL is not comply with her tax obligations: she is not required to make less than 10 / 12k, she is simply required to pay tax if she exceeds that. By all means you should be asking for receipts.

keith o h

never told anything about what would be going on there over the weekend and never told to bring all of out belongings with us. i was just curious as to where i stand with not being informed about all of this. for example i had a bag left in the room over the weekend with some of my belongings that i did not need to bring home, if i didnt lock the door and she had different people in the room and my belongings has got stolen as a result where would i stand then. just found it a bit weird that this was going on and we where not aware of this happening. its not really that cheap to be honest, we where paying €100 a week for 5 night in a hotel in the center of cork and we are now just outside of the city. cold damp place that smells every money when we come back here for the week. but sure this is what i got myself into, soon time to get back out.

Whosthis

keith o h wrote: »

never told anything about what would be going on there over the weekend

Because its none of your business, you agreed to rent the room for five days, its your room for those five days and for the remaining two days its not yours.

You should also be taking all your belongings with you when you vacate the room for the weekend.

Beaner1

The 5 day thing is typically used to give the owner a break to have the house to themselves at the weekend. It's very unusual to have them using another persons room over the weekend. It's ****ed up really. I'd strip the bed every weekend and make it as difficult as possible.

aunt aggie

Beaner1 wrote: »

The 5 day thing is typically used to give the owner a break to have the house to themselves at the weekend. It's very unusual to have them using another persons room over the weekend. It's ****ed up really. I'd strip the bed every weekend and make it as difficult as possible.

I agree. Its mostly owner occupiers who request 5 day lets so they dont have tenants underfoot at the weekend. When you move into a place you bring your stuff with you and you're not going to pack it up and bring it home every weekend. I'd be concerned about leaving confidential information, personal letters lying about the place. Not to mention clothes, food, toiletries. Having someone else sleeping in your bed and using your towels is just wrong.

If I were you OP, I'd leave. You didnt sign any agreement and if you can find somewhere else, RUN!

keith o h

Whosthis, i get the point. No need to be writing pretty much the same thing but in different words twice, your coming across like a person who is doing the very same thing.. Beaner1 im glad you see it the way i do its exactly the way it came across to me, giving the owner a break at the weekend. and i like your idea of making it as awkward as possible. found it strange iswell that we came home to a cold place when it is usually warm when we come in, the more i looked into it i figured somebody had been in around the rooms, toilet and living area, and turned off all of the valves on the radiators for some strange reason. seem a bit odd knowing she does be snooping around the rooms during the day when we are gone

Beaner1

keith o h wrote: »

Whosthis, i get the point. No need to be writing pretty much the same thing but in different words twice, your coming across like a person who is doing the very same thing.. Beaner1 im glad you see it the way i do its exactly the way it came across to me, giving the owner a break at the weekend. and i like your idea of making it as awkward as possible. found it strange iswell that we came home to a cold place when it is usually warm when we come in, the more i looked into it i figured somebody had been in around the rooms, toilet and living area, and turned off all of the valves on the radiators for some strange reason. seem a bit odd knowing she does be snooping around the rooms during the day when we are gone

She might just be turning off the heating trying to save money. Ask her if anybody is actually staying in your bed.
Still, I'd suggest that you are not in a licencee situation and I'd ask to be registered with the PRTB.

keith o h

id imagine she would save on heating another way other than turning off all the rads in our place? cut the time that the boiler if left on for down or something. i will have all my questions ready for her tomorrow and find out what is the proper story is with the place.. find out the info that we where never informed about.

Beaner1

keith o h wrote: »

id imagine she would save on heating another way other than turning off all the rads in our place? cut the time that the boiler if left on for down or something. i will have all my questions ready for her tomorrow and find out what is the proper story is with the place.. find out the info that we where never informed about.

Not if she's running the heating from the one boiler for both houses. I don't understand why she would want a five day rental if you don't share any living space. Might be the savings in electricty etc or the fear of weekend parties.

athtrasna

Peter File wrote: »

Rent of 240 * 52 is €12,480 so well above the current €10,000 per anum threshold and even the new threshold which comes into force in January. Do you pay any bills on top of the rent.

The 10/12k is total money handed over so includes any bills. If the OP and their housemates pay bills to the landlady on top of rent she is seriously over the limit if Rent a Room even applies.

Greenmachine

Landlord is taking the piss. A five day rental is one thing. But renting the rooms over the weekend. wtf. What would happen if you came home last thing on sunday and the weekend renter overstayed, hate a late night friday and woke up with some stranger fecker booting you out of your bed.

D_D

Greenmachine wrote: »

Landlord is taking the piss. A five day rental is one thing. But renting the rooms over the weekend. wtf. What would happen if you came home last thing on sunday and the weekend renter overstayed, hate a late night friday and woke up with some stranger fecker booting you out of your bed.

But this is what the OP signed up to from the beginning? Landlady advertised a 5 day rental, OP saw it and thought it was a great idea so signed up?

I don't see the issue here myself. What did you think would be happening the remaining two days?

Also, jumping to conclusions about tax avoidance on the landlady's part is ridiculous... No one here has any idea what the woman is declaring/not declaring. It's completely beside the point!

'Person A' rents a room for five days and is 'shocked' when they they find out what is happening the remaining two days? What did you think would happen?

No sympathy from myself, you shouldn't have signed up in the first place. Also, asking her to register for the PRTB is laughable based on 'a locked sliding patio door'. You can't take advice from people on a web forum who can't even see the premises.

It seems simple to me and you should move out and get your own place. But my guess is you won't find a place for less than €80 per week, hence the reason why you chose this place in the first place. This is what comes with cheap rent in a 5 day rental...

That's my 2c anyway.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Here's an idea OP, actually pay a market rent, and then you can have your living space for the whole week. Or are you only willing to pay cheap rent and expect free storage of your property at the weekends?

Greenmachine

Greenmachine wrote: »

Landlord is taking the piss. A five day rental is one thing. But renting the rooms over the weekend. wtf. What would happen if you came home last thing on sunday and the weekend renter overstayed, hate a late night friday and woke up with some stranger fecker booting you out of your bed.

Can't imagine it being fun. Moving all your school books and personal belonging every weekend.

Beaner1

Beaner1 wrote: »

She might just be turning off the heating trying to save money. Ask her if anybody is actually staying in your bed.
Still, I'd suggest that you are not in a licencee situation and I'd ask to be registered with the PRTB.

From the information the op has provided there is no reason to believe that it doesn't meet the rent a room scheme. She is renting rooms in her house to three individuals separately. The house has a second kitchen and second living room (not completely out of the ordinary) and the house is very much the same structure with an entrance between both parts of the house. The fact it's looked doesn't matter.

Beaner1

Aubrey Ugly Swordsman wrote: »

From the information the op has provided there is no reason to believe that it doesn't meet the rent a room scheme. She is renting rooms in her house to three individuals separately. The house has a second kitchen and second living room (not completely out of the ordinary) and the house is very much the same structure with an entrance between both parts of the house. The fact it's looked doesn't matter.

See my note from the PRTB which contradicts your view.

the_syco

keith o h wrote: »

the landlady was wondering why my bedroom door was locked, because she wanted to let people sleep in the room that i was renting

Ask her would she take responsibility over any of your belongings going missing, ans also ask her how much would the full 7 days cost.

I'm thinking she's going to rent the rooms via Airbnb, and thus god knows who'll be f**king in your bed. Clean sheets are the least of your worries!

keith o h wrote: »

turned off all of the valves on the radiators for some strange reason. seem a bit odd knowing she does be snooping around the rooms during the day when we are gone

AH here, leaving the rads on full blast when you're not there is taking the piss!

messrs

is she actually renting out your room on weekends, or was it just this one of occasion? maybe she had friends/family memebers staying and needed the room?

imitation

Have you asked her what it would cost to rent the room for the weekend ? Honestly it would probably be more worth her while getting 100 quid a week than 80, the some extra the odd weekend. I also assume the only way it would work is if she housekeeps the room every friday, which easily turns into a pain in the ass if you "forget" to bring stuff home and have various items all over the place. Maybe shes airbnbing it ? Otherwise what will happen is people will come, see some old bedsheets and socks and just leave again, it will get crap reviews and thats the end of that.

Michael D Not Higgins

Beaner1 wrote: »

See my note from the PRTB which contradicts your view.

See this note from revenue that contradicts that

"Self-contained unit
It is not possible to let an entire residence because the room or rooms that are let must form part of the residence and the residence must be occupied by the individual receiving the rent as his/her sole or main residence. The room or rooms can comprise a self-contained unit within the residence such as a basement flat or a converted garage attached to the residence. However, a self-contained unit that is adjacent to the residence but not actually attached to it cannot qualify for the relief."

Mrs OBumble

Lads, you are talking about two different things.

Technically "rent-a-room" only applies to the Revenue side of things: it says that a home owner can let room in their own "home" (as defined by Revenue, this can include attached flats etc) and not pay any tax if they earn less than 10k in total. Note that they can still let the room and receive more than this - in which case it's all taxable.

The PRTB opinion is about what doesn't constitute a tenancy. Their definition of "in the owners house" (and therefore not eligible for usual tenancy rights) doesn't include granny flats and the like - so most likely in the OP's situation tenancy rights would apply. But only for five days a week. Which is kind of interesting. It may be that there's some other legal basis (like they use for student hostels) which is actually a better fit for the OP's situation.




Either way - I still think that the OP is only paying for 5 days per week, so that's all they should be expecting to get. It would be reasonable to negotiate a locked cupboard or similar where you could leave your stuff, but it's totally not reasonable to pay for five days and get seven days storage.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Lads, you are talking about two different things.

Technically "rent-a-room" only applies to the Revenue side of things: it says that a home owner can let room in their own "home" (as defined by Revenue, this can include attached flats etc) and not pay any tax if they earn less than 10k in total. Note that they can still let the room and receive more than this - in which case it's all taxable.

The PRTB opinion is about what doesn't constitute a tenancy. Their definition of "in the owners house" (and therefore not eligible for usual tenancy rights) doesn't include granny flats and the like - so most likely in the OP's situation tenancy rights would apply. But only for five days a week. Which is kind of interesting. It may be that there's some other legal basis (like they use for student hostels) which is actually a better fit for the OP's situation.




Either way - I still think that the OP is only paying for 5 days per week, so that's all they should be expecting to get. It would be reasonable to negotiate a locked cupboard or similar where you could leave your stuff, but it's totally not reasonable to pay for five days and get seven days storage.

Where does it say that it doesn't count as living with the landlord? I thought if it qualifies for rent-a-room it qualifies as living with the landlord?

madmac187

I would be so careful with this, if in the event the rooms are being rented at the weekend, she could be renting to god knows what druggies that aren't allowed to hostels or sex offenders not allowed to any shelters. This is something very prevalent at the minute. So tell her no and get your own place. Dont even try to negotiate, been there done that in college myself. Bad landlord that is mean and penny pinching is never worth it.

Mrs OBumble

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Where does it say that it doesn't count as living with the landlord? I thought if it qualifies for rent-a-room it qualifies as living with the landlord?

Yes - from a revenue perspective.

But the PRTB advice is different, because it's from a tenancy perspective.

runawaybishop

madmac187 wrote: »

I would be so careful with this, if in the event the rooms are being rented at the weekend, she could be renting to god knows what druggies that aren't allowed to hostels or sex offenders not allowed to any shelters. This is something very prevalent at the minute. So tell her no and get your own place. Dont even try to negotiate, been there done that in college myself. Bad landlord that is mean and penny pinching is never worth it.

Where does it say the rooms are being rented at the weekend? The LL might just have had guests over and wanted to let them stay.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes - from a revenue perspective.

But the PRTB advice is different, because it's from a tenancy perspective.

From the PRTB
"A licensee is...persons sharing a house/apartment with its owner e.g. under the ‘rent a room’ scheme or ‘in digs’"

That seems clear that the rent a room scheme means you're sharing with the landlord. Where do the PRTB stipulate the difference?

pc7

Not up on the rental market in Cork but if the 3 of you are paying €240 for 5 days each a week, that's about 1040 a month, can you not find something together for that? Quick search on daft shows 32 properties in Cork City center for under 1k per month. Then you might be saving on travel costs (that might cover bills?), anything sounds better than the current situation you find yourself in. http://www.daft.ie/cork-city/houses-to-rent/?s[area_type]=on&s[mxp]=1000&s[mnb]=3&s[mxb]=3&s[advanced]=1

the_syco

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Either way - I still think that the OP is only paying for 5 days per week, so that's all they should be expecting to get. It would be reasonable to negotiate a locked cupboard or similar where you could leave your stuff, but it's totally not reasonable to pay for five days and get seven days storage.

5 days is so the people are not there at the weekend. If renting the room to someone at the weekend, and I have no doubt the OP and friends will quickly find another place, as someone renting out a room for the weekend will usually be renting out the place to shag.

keith o h

theres so muc going on here im nealry sorry that i even posted this at all.. does seem a bit funny when theres bottles found in the other rooms on monday that does not belong to them. i was talking to her just a few minutes ago and paid my rent and when i asked for my receipt she was a little bit gob smacked and suddenly brough up the topic about tax and will the receipt have anything to do with tax. so she has to be dodging the bullet on this one. i aslo brought up about people in the rooms and i asked her why she was curious as to why my room was lock and told me that ''it was just because she was hoovering around the place'' after she had told the other guy here that ''why was the door locked, i couldnt put anyone into the room for the weekend.'' if the ''anyone'' was a family member or even friend i would imagine that she would have said that. the ''anyone'' comes across to me as the place is being rented over the weekend.. seems to me that she is really dodging the bullet with the revenue.

The_Morrigan

Beaner1 wrote: »

Have a look on airbnb. If you find an ad then you have her by the ovaries. A little mention of revenue should get you your 7 day room.

Could you please stop being so crass in your posting style, there are far more eloquent ways to get a point across.

Emme

keith o h wrote: »

theres so muc going on here im nealry sorry that i even posted this at all.. does seem a bit funny when theres bottles found in the other rooms on monday that does not belong to them. i was talking to her just a few minutes ago and paid my rent and when i asked for my receipt she was a little bit gob smacked and suddenly brough up the topic about tax and will the receipt have anything to do with tax. so she has to be dodging the bullet on this one. i aslo brought up about people in the rooms and i asked her why she was curious as to why my room was lock and told me that ''it was just because she was hoovering around the place'' after she had told the other guy here that ''why was the door locked, i couldnt put anyone into the room for the weekend.'' if the ''anyone'' was a family member or even friend i would imagine that she would have said that. the ''anyone'' comes across to me as the place is being rented over the weekend.. seems to me that she is really dodging the bullet with the revenue.

Bottles as in drink bottles? I wouldn't mind that if she told you some of her family were staying and the sheets were changed. If the sheets aren't changed before or after the weekend then this woman is scraping the barrel in every way. It's one thing renting out rooms 5 days a week and having the place to yourself over the weekend but renting out rooms 5 days a week and over the weekend for people who may use the beds for sex beggars belief especially if the sheets aren't changed.

Find another place and in the meantime take the sheets off the bed on Friday evenings when you leave. Make the beds again when you come back. If all three lodgers do that is would be better still.

the_syco

keith o h wrote: »

does seem a bit funny when theres bottles found in the other rooms on monday that does not belong to them.

If these are "drink bottles" as Emme said, I'd be taking the sheets and everything else off the bed on the Friday, as well as anything of monetary or sentimental value!