too much grass

dh1985

Have a awful lot of grass for this time of year. With cows calving from january on I dont want them to be overfat at calving time. They will be on good hay from the time they enter the shed. I have 6-8 inches of grass in places. Would it be ok to leave over winter and be able to turn cows out to in march. Land would be fairly good. In the midlands so get harsher frosts than some places. Any advice welcome

Nekarsulm

you need a few hundred store lambs. othetwise it will be wasted. just die into a yellow mat.

Greengrass1

Why cant you graze it now? What ever you have grazed in last two weeks don't go back on and graze rest of farm till its gone.
Get out then in early feb

rangler1

dh1985 wrote: »

Have a awful lot of grass for this time of year. With cows calving from january on I dont want them to be overfat at calving time. They will be on good hay from the time they enter the shed. I have 6-8 inches of grass in places. Would it be ok to leave over winter and be able to turn cows out to in march. Land would be fairly good. In the midlands so get harsher frosts than some places. Any advice welcome

Strip graze and give them a few hungry days every week.
anything you graze hard now will have nice grass by march

dh1985

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Why cant you graze it now? What ever you have grazed in last two weeks don't go back on and graze rest of farm till its gone.
Get out then in early feb

Didnt want to let the cows in on large amounts of grass as there in too good of condition as it is and dont want problems calving. Have just got rid off most of this years weanlings so only have a few of the younger ones left. I could leave these weanlings out on it over the winter as its good ground. Was just wondering if I left a bulk of grass like that over winter would it be suitable for early grazing in feb/mar or would it just turn to muck

Miname

dh1985 wrote: »

Didnt want to let the cows in on large amounts of grass as there in too good of condition as it is and dont want problems calving. Have just got rid off most of this years weanlings so only have a few of the younger ones left. I could leave these weanlings out on it over the winter as its good ground. Was just wondering if I left a bulk of grass like that over winter would it be suitable for early grazing in feb/mar or would it just turn to muck

Out winter the light weanlings on it with a handful of meal and you'll have serious lumps of weanlings in the spring. I can see a lot of calving problems on farms this year. I've cows I thought I'd starved throwing monsters so far, from various Bulls. Like you I've a serious cover but il leave the late spring Calvers out a while longer and let the light animals out for as long as

Mad4simmental

Same here, and as most are calving December and janery they will be going in soon regardless. I was thinking of buying sum runners and let them graze over winter.

What would people buy? I was thinking 200kg fr bulls. Not many around 10 and give them a kg of barly a day? What do people think?

Sumthing cheep and cheerfull, not set up for sheep.

just do it

dh1985 wrote: »

Didnt want to let the cows in on large amounts of grass as there in too good of condition as it is and dont want problems calving. Have just got rid off most of this years weanlings so only have a few of the younger ones left. I could leave these weanlings out on it over the winter as its good ground. Was just wondering if I left a bulk of grass like that over winter would it be suitable for early grazing in feb/mar or would it just turn to muck

The grass quality is deteriorating so I don't see an issue grazing it out with the cows. Give them 3-4 day blocks with the last 24hrs being hungry so they graze it down well and keep their condition in check. Lucky you if you can keep them out late. However above all else avoid poaching.

Leaving a heavy cover of grass on it over winter will result in poor quality spring grass. I'd top it rather than leave it

Feckthis

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Same here, and as most are calving December and janery they will be going in soon regardless. I was thinking of buying sum runners and let them graze over winter.

What would people buy? I was thinking 200kg fr bulls. Not many around 10 and give them a kg of barly a day? What do people think?

Sumthing cheep and cheerfull, not set up for sheep.

Would two strands of poly wire not keep them in? You wouldn't be herding them much so I couldn't see much bother on them.

Mad4simmental

Feckthis wrote: »

Would two strands of poly wire not keep them in? You wouldn't be herding them much so I couldn't see much bother on them.

Not sure, would it? I know feck all about sheep tbh but if that kept them in id chance them. What are lambs going for at the moment?

Feckthis

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Not sure, would it? I know feck all about sheep tbh but if that kept them in id chance them. What are lambs going for at the moment?

The idea is floating around in my head to do the same.. Maybe some one who has sheep can advise use? A neighbour of mine is telling me they will be grand on stubble with two strands of wire?

dh1985

Miname wrote: »

Out winter the light weanlings on it with a handful of meal and you'll have serious lumps of weanlings in the spring. I can see a lot of calving problems on farms this year. I've cows I thought I'd starved throwing monsters so far, from various Bulls. Like you I've a serious cover but il leave the late spring Calvers out a while longer and let the light animals out for as long as

Yeah I think I will leave out the weanlings I am keeping over winter on it for as long as I can. Its good dry ground so poaching should not be a problem if weather is anyway reasonable. Yeah with the great growth all year cows are in great condition so want them on hay for at least six to eight weeks before calving to minimise calf size. Have not had a ceasarian in at least six or seven years and want to minimise the possibility of this as I find there is a lot more negatives to producing big calves at birth than positives. Between longevity of cows, extra hardship at calving, minimising calving spread and additional vet fees I dont see a benefit of monster calves.

dh1985

just do it wrote: »

The grass quality is deteriorating so I don't see an issue grazing it out with the cows. Give them 3-4 day blocks with the last 24hrs being hungry so they graze it down well and keep their condition in check. Lucky you if you can keep them out late. However above all else avoid poaching.

Leaving a heavy cover of grass on it over winter will result in poor quality spring grass. I'd top it rather than leave it

Yeah poaching is a no no here above all else. It messes recovery up and your playing catch up all year long with grass covers.

eric prydz

dh1985 wrote: »

Yeah I think I will leave out the weanlings I am keeping over winter on it for as long as I can. Its good dry ground so poaching should not be a problem if weather is anyway reasonable. Yeah with the great growth all year cows are in great condition so want them on hay for at least six to eight weeks before calving to minimise calf size. Have not had a ceasarian in at least six or seven years and want to minimise the possibility of this as I find there is a lot more negatives to producing big calves at birth than positives. Between longevity of cows, extra hardship at calving, minimising calving spread and additional vet fees I dont see a benefit of monster calves.

I wont worry too much about having too much grass at this time of the year as it start to dye back very quickly from here on and the cows will be fitter from walking around grazeing.

mf240

Id nearly have a go at eating it myself before id let sheep around the place.

AP2014

mf240 wrote: »

Id nearly have a go at eating it myself before id let sheep around the place.

Why so against sheep? Neighbour wants to run a few over my ground over winter. Says they'll leave it clean for springtime. Not sure what to do yet.

Feckthis

AP2014 wrote: »

Why so against sheep? Neighbour wants to run a few over my ground over winter. Says they'll leave it clean for springtime. Not sure what to do yet.

Ye should get a few pound for that.. Put it under your mattress with the rest of your profits :Dha

AP2014

Feckthis wrote: »

Ye should get a few pound for that.. Put it under your mattress with the rest of your profits :Dha

Get over that. But wont turn my nose at some extra cash. Just interested in the benefits or not in having them on land over the winter? Mf240 doesnt seem a fan of them.

Nekarsulm

whats the going rate for sheep keep? 50 cent per ewe per week? Or would you get more?

AP2014

Nekarsulm wrote: »

whats the going rate for sheep keep? 50 cent per ewe per week? Or would you get more?

Haven't a clue. Outside the money wouldn't mind helping a neighbour if his stuck.

Dont want to damage land though or set it back for next spring. It it cleans it up great.

mf240

AP2014 wrote: »

Get over that. But wont turn my nose at some extra cash. Just interested in the benefits or not in having them on land over the winter? Mf240 doesnt seem a fan of them.

There actually good for the grass but i just hate them . We used to have them and there was always something wrong with them .

If whoever owns them looks after them i suppose it wouldnt be your problem.

When we had them the only place they wouldnt break out of was the freezer.

Nekarsulm

Wont damage the land, don't poach it like cattle. Might paddle the top inch, but thats it.

I said

I can see the boss mans face if I even suggested white vermin about the place

kay 9

Thought I was the only one that wasn't fond of sheep. They do pay better than Sucklers though. Himself got a few again and as a previous poster mentioned, there is always Smth wrong with them.. The list goes on.

whelan2

AP2014 wrote: »

Why so against sheep? Neighbour wants to run a few over my ground over winter. Says they'll leave it clean for springtime. Not sure what to do yet.

he's right they will leave it clean for spring time, meaning thre will be no grass for your cattle

20silkcut

This is where zero grazers really come in to their own.

rangler1

AP2014 wrote: »

Why so against sheep? Neighbour wants to run a few over my ground over winter. Says they'll leave it clean for springtime. Not sure what to do yet.

If you want grass in march, make sure the sheep are gone by the end dec at the latest

Farmer Pudsey

AP2014 wrote: »

Why so against sheep? Neighbour wants to run a few over my ground over winter. Says they'll leave it clean for springtime. Not sure what to do yet.

Disadvantage is you will have no spring grass. Being stocked low it would not be an issue if you could close some land for cattle you buy in spring. If you have extra grass graze your stores with 1-2kg of meal ( barley.Hulls with a bit of soya bean meal would be excellent) as long as you can. Do not let them regraze fields you have closed.


OP If you have a few fields with light covers(grazed since mid september) I leave them for spring but heavy covers need to be grazed. Lighter covers will have a good cover by early march might be a bit yellow on top but will do sucklers . However heavy covers need to be grazed off. Weanlings are the best but if you have a lot of it you will need somthing else as well.

If a lad need to buy somthing I be looking at light fresian store less than 400kgs or Fresian weanlings. No point in buying 200K cont runners costing 700 euro even though they will do well over winter if you lose one you are at a loss. 200ish Fresian weanlings could gain 150kgs over this winter on this type of grass with 1.5kgs ration. Leave as bulls over winter and see options re selling. If you have to squeeze do it in late February they be grand to sell in Mid april

AP2014

mf240 wrote: »

There actually good for the grass but i just hate them . We used to have them and there was always something wrong with them .

If whoever owns them looks after them i suppose it wouldnt be your problem.

When we had them the only place they wouldnt break out of was the freezer.

whelan2 wrote: »

he's right they will leave it clean for spring time, meaning thre will be no grass for your cattle

rangler1 wrote: »

If you want grass in march, make sure the sheep are gone by the end dec at the latest

Cheers, ya worked on a uncles farm with them years ago and they were dirty smelly feckers. He will be looking after them but I don't want them visiting my other neighbours, I don't have the fencing for sheep.

If he fences he can have december and january for free. I plan on only giving him the two months to clean up old dead grass and then hopefully I'll have some nice grass at end of March.

Will only give him a field or two. Thanks for the advice.

Username John

AP2014 wrote: »

Cheers, ya worked on a uncles farm with them years ago and they were dirty smelly feckers. He will be looking after them but I don't want them visiting my other neighbours, I don't have the fencing for sheep.

If he fences he can have december and january for free. I plan on only giving him the two months to clean up old dead grass and then hopefully I'll have some nice grass at end of March.

Will only give him a field or two. Thanks for the advice.

If they are gone end Jan, you might not have much grass by end March (depends a lot on weather obviously) But I think you'd need the 3 months as Rangler said.

If he is sorting the fencing, you could give him the run of the place, but only til the new year. The sheep will improve the grass for you, end it down and you'll have nice grass come springtime.
The main thing is to get them off, to allow the grass to come again for when you need it.

whelan2

AP2014 wrote: »

Cheers, ya worked on a uncles farm with them years ago and they were dirty smelly feckers. He will be looking after them but I don't want them visiting my other neighbours, I don't have the fencing for sheep.

If he fences he can have december and january for free. I plan on only giving him the two months to clean up old dead grass and then hopefully I'll have some nice grass at end of March.

Will only give him a field or two. Thanks for the advice.

just another point, if you have a department inspection while the sheep are on your land, who owns them. I have had sheep in for a couple of years, winter 2011 it worked really well, i had really nice grass for my cows after them, didnt go as well in winter 2012 as there was zero growth in spring 2013, no grass, no growth , no feed and no money,not a nice combination. So I will never have them in again as I dont want to go through that again.

20silkcut

What are the pros and cons of Topping heavy covers now in a low stocking rate situation .

Charliebull

OP i am kinda in the same boat with outfarm but have a few 1st calved heifers calved (calving) in next week and will strip graze them on it for as long as possible

_Brian

20silkcut wrote: »

What are the pros and cons of Topping heavy covers now in a low stocking rate situation .

Well €50 does a hell of a lot if topping compared to taking in sheep if your not set up to handle them, easy way to fall out with neighbours.

One pro would be cutting back any rush to let frost down to the crown, supposed to set them back well. .. Not that any of ye lads have rushes, just thinking if ourselves.

Farmer Pudsey

If you have heavy covers and cut now they will form a mat over the Field. Only way to top heavy covers is with na disc mower. However this will leave bulky swarts. Idealy you should bale it(lots of water in bales) The swart could damage grass underneath and kill some of same.

I be disclined to top I be more invline to graze it out some way or other. If you were near me I could throw a few bullock onto it. 30 store bullocks would get through it by Christmas

_Brian

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you have heavy covers and cut now they will form a mat over the Field. Only way to top heavy covers is with na disc mower. However this will leave bulky swarts. Idealy you should bale it(lots of water in bales) The swart could damage grass underneath and kill some of same.

I be disclined to top I be more invline to graze it out some way or other. If you were near me I could throw a few bullock onto it. 30 store bullocks would get through it by Christmas

Yea, if there's enough to bale then bale it. But up our way there's a bit of grass around, but not seeing anything near enough for baling.

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

just another point, if you have a department inspection while the sheep are on your land, who owns them. I have had sheep in for a couple of years, winter 2011 it worked really well, i had really nice grass for my cows after them, didnt go as well in winter 2012 as there was zero growth in spring 2013, no grass, no growth , no feed and no money,not a nice combination. So I will never have them in again as I dont want to go through that again.

they remain the property of the flock owner .. however you are supposed to notify the dept of movements in and out , but you have a week to do so , sheep can eat a lot in 6 days sir !!!! ahem

the secret is get in a out fast better a lrage number for say 2 weeks than a smaller number for 6 weeks , will be only eating re growth and have lighter cover in the spring eventhough quality will be improved

i

whelan2

orm0nd wrote: »

they remain the property of the flock owner .. however you are supposed to notify the dept of movements in and out , but you have a week to do so , sheep can eat a lot in 6 days sir !!!! ahem

the secret is get in a out fast better a lrage number for say 2 weeks than a smaller number for 6 weeks , will be only eating re growth and have lighter cover in the spring eventhough quality will be improved

i

would they not be visible by satelite?

Greengrass1

Topping and baling grass now?
Whats so hard about grazing or like waa said buy a few lambs and put them out.
I see my neighbour here with just two stands of poly wire and plastic stake and they go no where

sea12

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Topping and baling grass now?
Whats so hard about grazing or like waa said buy a few lambs and put them out.
I see my neighbour here with just two stands of poly wire and plastic stake and they go no where

Yea I strip grazed my ewes on heavy covers that Would have suited cattle with 2 strands of Polly wire and plastic stakes. Worked the finest.

20silkcut

If ya just let it go yellow and take it on the chin . Bale it up in the spring it won't affect silage quality too much??

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

would they not be visible by satelite?

you worry too much lol

yes they would be visible, but most satellite images are taken during longer days when there is less cloud cover

frazzledhome

dh1985 wrote: »

Have a awful lot of grass for this time of year. With cows calving from january on I dont want them to be overfat at calving time. They will be on good hay from the time they enter the shed. I have 6-8 inches of grass in places. Would it be ok to leave over winter and be able to turn cows out to in march. Land would be fairly good. In the midlands so get harsher frosts than some places. Any advice welcome

How many acres?
How many weanlings?

dh1985

frazzledhome wrote: »

How many acres?
How many weanlings?

I have seven young weanlings. Born april/may. About the 300kg mark. Have eight acres of good ground not ate since early september. Have 60% of my spring grazing ground closed. Most since start of october. This should be suitable for early turnout hopefully. The remaining 40% will be closed on the next two to three weeks. Then I will probably leave the weanlings out on the 8 acres of heavy grass. This is cut for meadow so dont necessarily need it in early spring but I do want it cleaned well to get good quality first cut. I thought I may be able to leave it over winter and have it for cows with calves in February if it didnt deteriorate but from people's suggestions I wont go this route. Just trying not to be short grasd in spring as I find if you get a good starting rotation it set you up well when growth really takes off

dh1985

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Disadvantage is you will have no spring grass. Being stocked low it would not be an issue if you could close some land for cattle you buy in spring. If you have extra grass graze your stores with 1-2kg of meal ( barley.Hulls with a bit of soya bean meal would be excellent) as long as you can. Do not let them regraze fields you have closed.


OP If you have a few fields with light covers(grazed since mid september) I leave them for spring but heavy covers need to be grazed. Lighter covers will have a good cover by early march might be a bit yellow on top but will do sucklers . However heavy covers need to be grazed off. Weanlings are the best but if you have a lot of it you will need somthing else as well.

If a lad need to buy somthing I be looking at light fresian store less than 400kgs or Fresian weanlings. No point in buying 200K cont runners costing 700 euro even though they will do well over winter if you lose one you are at a loss. 200ish Fresian weanlings could gain 150kgs over this winter on this type of grass with 1.5kgs ration. Leave as bulls over winter and see options re selling. If you have to squeeze do it in late February they be grand to sell in Mid april

Thanks pudsey. Yeah will graze it with the few remaining weanlings so. I will avoid purchasing stock as I try and minimise the bought in stock where I can to minimise diseases. Got stung a few years with a AA heifer from a dairy herd which was a PI with BVD, so am weary enough since. I know bvd is been eradicated but theres surely other things out there that my own stock would be liable to contract.

frazzledhome

dh1985 wrote: »

I have seven young weanlings. Born april/may. About the 300kg mark. Have eight acres of good ground not ate since early september. Have 60% of my spring grazing ground closed. Most since start of october. This should be suitable for early turnout hopefully. The remaining 40% will be closed on the next two to three weeks. Then I will probably leave the weanlings out on the 8 acres of heavy grass. This is cut for meadow so dont necessarily need it in early spring but I do want it cleaned well to get good quality first cut. I thought I may be able to leave it over winter and have it for cows with calves in February if it didnt deteriorate but from people's suggestions I wont go this route. Just trying not to be short grasd in spring as I find if you get a good starting rotation it set you up well when growth really takes off

You've insured that you won't be short in the spring as you've 60% closed. I'd block graze the 8 with weanlings and you cows and calves can go on to closed piece as they calve. If you don't finish 8 acres calved cows can clean off. Sounds to me like you could up your SR by a few cows

dh1985

frazzledhome wrote: »

You've insured that you won't be short in the spring as you've 60% closed. I'd block graze the 8 with weanlings and you cows and calves can go on to closed piece as they calve. If you don't finish 8 acres calved cows can clean off. Sounds to me like you could up your SR by a few cows

I probably could a small bit. For a suckler farm I would have thought we would be stocked fairly well. You dairy guys would probably have a different perspective on it though. Just with the tremendous growth all year and getting better and managing paddocks and utilisation in recent years there is just a lot of grass left for this time of year.

Muckit

I wouldn't be basing stocking rate for sucklers on this year. It's been an exceptional year for grass. Who knows what next year will bring.

whelan2

Muckit wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing stocking rate for sucklers on this year. It's been an exceptional year for grass. Who knows what next year will bring.

even for dairying, had an advisor lad here telling me to put a 30 acre silage field into barley for next year, my comment was what if the year is wet, grand plenty of surplus this year but next year could be very different

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing stocking rate for sucklers on this year. It's been an exceptional year for grass. Who knows what next year will bring.

Didn't someone make a comment as well, that comparing stocking rate for dairy vs stocking rate for sucklers is dangerous...
In a bad year - it can still pay to feed ration on a dairy farm, but in a bad year on a suckler farm, if you short of fodder for whatever reason, it could break, the margins are so tight... (thinking about it, it was prob Pudsey said it)

Greengrass1

The best way to determine your SR is to match it to whay grass you grow.
If I grow 14 and utilise 12 every yr I kniw I can hold an sr of 2.7.
With feeding 500kgs of meal per cow and 1100 of silage.
And that silage is coming off a seperate block.
The more grass I can grow the more cows I can have but I need to grow it consistently