Cash 4 Cars...

LordNorbury

I can't remember the last time I drove through a set of traffic lights in Dublin where I haven't seen a tacky cheap sign cable tied to the traffic lamppost with a mobile number advertised if you are selling a car for scrap.

All these signs have a few things in common:

(1) There is no business address, website, landline number, or anything that would indicate that these advertisers are legitimate businesses registered with Revenue for tax purposes, etc.

(2) The only method of contacting these people is by calling a mobile number.

(3) Everything is "cash", so it is pretty much untraceable, just like the business in general, no business address, no email address, no website, no landline...

These people are very obviously in my opinion, black market operators who are not declaring income for the purposes of paying tax.

I've only one question and it is this: This is a country that has gone through 6 odd years of ravishing austerity, because the economy has been on it's knees and where we have seen our national tax take being on a knife edge due to widespread unemployment (and the decreased PAYE/PRSI tax take that comes with that), and then because people have been spending a lot less, this has caused VAT sales to be depressed.

But my question is, how is it actually possible, that widespread black market activity on this scale, can go completely unchallenged? This isn't just a few signs thrown up in a certain area or on a particular road or car park! This is a situation where there isn't a set of traffic lights left in Dublin or an ESB substation box, that doesn't have a "Cash 4 cars" sign or sticker attached to it???

I'd like to discuss this on here as it is starting to seriously annoy me, me being a taxpayer who is being bled fúcking dry these days, seeing people in Revenue who have had their pay and their jobs completely protected, not being able to get off their fat arses and confront what is obviously "IN YOUR FACE" at this stage, widespread black market activity that is currently going on within the motor industry.

Celly Smunt

The people generally operating these wouldn't be "traditional" taxpayers if you get me. They do have plenty of cash however.

Del2005

Same as every industry. People are giving out about the cuts and stealth taxes but the 1st question that they ask is how much for cash. The legal businesses are being killed by the cash in hand economy which is leading to increased taxes and charges on legal companies so more people go to the illegal businesses.

LordNorbury

Celly Smunt wrote: »

The people generally operating these wouldn't be "traditional" taxpayers if you get me. They do have plenty of cash however.

I know the point you are making, but does it follow from that point you've made, that we just leave these people to it, these people who fall into this "category of taxpayer", and tolerate this?!?!?

Is there a Revenue policy now of allowing people who have "traditionally never paid tax", and let's not beat around the bush about it here, we are most certainly talking about a certain self professed indigenous ethic minority of our society here, to promote & operate such a large scale black market business such as this one???

It boils my píss I have to say. And I'm not having a go at those behind it, what I am seriously confused about is now there appears to be absolutely no attempt whatsoever to confront it on the part of Revenue.

_Kaiser_

Truth be told, if I was selling a car for scrap and someone was offering a decent amount for it, I wouldn't give a toss if they're Revenue compliant. The "legal criminals" of this country get and take enough as it is!

It's the same as buying a car for a grand and whinging that you didn't get a warranty - that's not the segment you're in. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Key word to the above being IF however.

LordNorbury

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Truth be told, if I was selling a car for scrap and someone was offering a decent amount for it, I wouldn't give a toss if they're Revenue compliant. The "legal criminals" of this country get and take enough as it is!

It's the same as buying a car for a grand and whinging that you didn't get a warranty - that's not the segment you're in. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

Key word to the above being IF however.

That's very Irish, in the next breath you'd most probably complain about all the taxes and charges you now have to pay because the cost of rescuing the country due to the banking crisis and the "legal criminals", has been handed to every citizen in the country, which affects the money that you now have in your pocket.

This is the problem with this country these days, people just can't make the very simple association between their incessant need to always have the little "how much for cash" backhander, there available for them when the might need it, and the fact that black market activity only increases the amount of tax you will pay, because if someone else is dodging their fair share of paying tax, then those that are tax complaint are carrying their burden for them. You can't have it both ways I believe.

Tragedy

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Valetta

Knowing the Irish Revenue, I would say they are well aware of these guys and are doing all they can to combat them.

If you notice, you very seldom see two mobile numbers the same.

It's very difficult to track down a PAYG phone.

They could set up "stings", but I would imagine the lads are well wide to that.

LordNorbury

Valetta wrote: »

Knowing the Irish Revenue, I would say they are well aware of these guys and are doing all they can to combat them.

If you notice, you very seldom see two mobile numbers the same.

It's very difficult to track down a PAYG phone.

They could set up "stings", but I would imagine the lads are well wide to that.

That's where these guys are vulnerable, is it asking too much for Revenue to use some initiative and to question someone offering to buy a car for cash, under caution, ask them for their PPS number or VAT number or whatever, and make some attempt to establish if they are declaring income for tax purposes or not and complying with the law, and if not, then prosecute?!?

This is the same Revenue by the way that last year made a big huge deal out of reminding grandparents that any money received from adult siblings for minding grandchildren, was income for the purposes of declaring tax! Is it asking too much of the same plebs to act in the face of what is blatant illegality and widespread tax fraud on a massively higher scale?

Frankie Lee

Not to mention the littering fines that should be imposed.

biko

Posts guessing about or referring to a particular ethnic group removed. Let's not go there folks.

corktina

if they offer you enough cash and sign the taxbook and you send it off yourself, that's fine.

mickdw

corktina wrote: »

if they offer you enough cash and sign the taxbook and you send it off yourself, that's fine.

Its perfectly legit as far as the seller is concerned but when they are buying large numbers in a commercial fashion, it's not ok from their end

Amalgam

These are being vandalised a lot in South County Dublin. Phone number being ripped off/concealed. Not seen one intact for a good month or two.

A media outlet covered this, radio possibly.. and there was a whiff of intimidation and passive/aggressive carry on with one punter that made the mistake of ringing the number and having people come to his home.. :eek:

punisher5112

There is one 085 number I have seen from all over the outskirts of Dublin and Wicklow, Navan, Blanchardstown, Ballinteer and some crazy amount of places.

They are damaging public property and putting stickers up also which seem to be very sticky as some are just spraying paint over.

People who have some time on their hands should keep ringing them and get them to call out to places that don't exsist:pac:

Soundboard on youtube to make it interesting.

We all know it is certain people at this illegal activity but for some reason they are probably some of the best protected under are silly laws.

I would not get away posting any business I have blocking junctions and damaging property.

Similar thing seen few years ago was a Taxi firm printed thousands of stickers and placed on traffic lights, junctions and wheelie bins.

LordNorbury

I find it strange that Revenue are not leading the charge against these tax dodging muppets. because there is no way this income is being declared for income purposes. A small handful of sting operations would have a lot of these cowboys dealt with, if the will and initiative was there to begin with.

Gardaí and the Dublin local authorities have warned motorists against selling cars through 'Cash for Cars' dealers.
The councils have started taking down the signs under litter prevention legislation and Gardaí are trying to have the phone numbers disconnected.
The councils say motorists need to be aware they have a responsibility to ensure that the change of ownership is done correctly so that any charges, fines or penalty points are attributed to the rightful owner.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gardai-warn-of-illegal-cash-for-cars-dealers-in-dublin-650582.html

Rubberchikken

Glad i found this thread.
Im seriously considering selling my 2011 seat ibiza amd had given consideration to contacting the site mentioned in the thread.

I'll be looking at another way of selling methinks

Bigus

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Glad i found this thread.
Im seriously considering selling my 2011 seat ibiza amd had given consideration to contacting the site mentioned in the thread.

I'll be looking at another way of selling methinks

What site ? Was mentioned

biko

Anyone between you and the buyer will want a piece of the cake, from your piece. Is that ok with you?
If not, sell private.

dr.fuzzenstein

Del2005 wrote: »

Same as every industry. People are giving out about the cuts and stealth taxes but the 1st question that they ask is how much for cash. The legal businesses are being killed by the cash in hand economy which is leading to increased taxes and charges on legal companies so more people go to the illegal businesses.

The legal businesses are the ones who offer cash only jobs. Just have any handyman come to your house, be it plumber, carpenter and so on.
We have come to the stage where you cannot survive if you're 100% honest, unless you're doing fantastically. The government is only interested in tax take and not having any hassle. People avoid tax? Wham up tax, so the honest ones pay for the dishonest ones. It is ironic that now honest people have to find shortcuts unless they fancy sleeping in a doorway.
The state doesn't give a single sh*t if 20% of business go under, we have seen that in action, they just want their money and don't care if you're in a ditch somewhere. So for a lot of businesses gong crooked is the only way. And I don't mean all-out criminal, any business will try and keep a certain amount of transactions off the books, cash in hand, no receipts and squirrel the money away somewhere safe or trickle into legitimate expenses. If you don't take the absolute piss, it's very hard to detect and having been involved in many small businesses (not my own, but working there), it sometimes is the only way to get them going over a rough patch.
A certain amount of taxes is necessary, but at some stage it is taking the piss. Then taxes have to be viewed like any loss or theft and methods found to combat such. You can be compliant or you can survive.
I mean small legit businesses. I'm not talking about organised gang style businesses, where it's all cash and all criminal.

LordNorbury

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The legal businesses are the ones who offer cash only jobs. Just have any handyman come to your house, be it plumber, carpenter and so on.
We have come to the stage where you cannot survive if you're 100% honest, unless you're doing fantastically. The government is only interested in tax take and not having any hassle. People avoid tax? Wham up tax, so the honest ones pay for the dishonest ones. It is ironic that now honest people have to find shortcuts unless they fancy sleeping in a doorway.
The state doesn't give a single sh*t if 20% of business go under, we have seen that in action, they just want their money and don't care if you're in a ditch somewhere. So for a lot of businesses gong crooked is the only way. And I don't mean all-out criminal, any business will try and keep a certain amount of transactions off the books, cash in hand, no receipts and squirrel the money away somewhere safe or trickle into legitimate expenses. If you don't take the absolute piss, it's very hard to detect and having been involved in many small businesses (not my own, but working there), it sometimes is the only way to get them going over a rough patch.
A certain amount of taxes is necessary, but at some stage it is taking the piss. Then taxes have to be viewed like any loss or theft and methods found to combat such. You can be compliant or you can survive.
I mean small legit businesses. I'm not talking about organised gang style businesses, where it's all cash and all criminal.

You do have a point there. I've had that point made to me before, that you simply couldn't afford to "dot the i's and cross the t's", and do everything legit in this country at the present time. It boils my píss though that the people who are meant to be enforcing the rules here, those in Revenue, Gardai, those in the local authorities, are the very people whose pay, jobs, terms and conditions are all protected, and those who are not dealing in the black market, and being bled dry to pay for these folks who are simply failing to enforce the law.

dr.fuzzenstein

LordNorbury wrote: »

You do have a point there. I've had that point made to me before, that you simply couldn't afford to "dot the i's and cross the t's", and do everything legit in this country at the present time. It boils my píss though that the people who are meant to be enforcing the rules here, those in Revenue, Gardai, those in the local authorities, are the very people whose pay, jobs, terms and conditions are all protected, and those who are not dealing in the black market, and being bled dry to pay for these folks who are simply failing to enforce the law.

Current reports seem to indicate that the Gardai have trouble catching a cold...

keithclancy

Exists over here also,

Apparently <see mod post above>
It's difficult for the Belastingdienst (Tax Authorities) to do anything about it since they are not registered with City Hall and deal mainly in cash.

You just see a business card in a super market with a "Sell your car for cash" and I assume prepaid mobile number.

LordNorbury

keithclancy wrote: »

Exists over here also,

Apparently <see mod post above>
It's difficult for the Belastingdienst (Tax Authorities) to do anything about it since they are not registered with City Hall and deal mainly in cash.

You just see a business card in a super market with a "Sell your car for cash" and I assume prepaid mobile number.

Is it asking too much for a small bit of ingenuity to be deployed and for the Garda officials to pose as customers selling a banger, then ask the cash 4 cars sellers to identify themselves? This is the problem with the black market in this current times, there is no state strategy to face up to the reality that between mobile phone technology and online/internet technology, that the old ways of dealing with black market crime is simply not workable. It's like the whole apparatus of the state is 15-20 years behind the times when it comes to this stuff.

the world wonders

Man jailed and fined €5,600 over ‘cash for cars’ signs

“The perpetrator was sentenced to three months’ imprisonment and fined €200 for each summons, totalling €5,600 in fines.”

...

“Sting operations offering unmarked police vehicles for sale were put in place to identify the culprits responsible for the signs, culminating in last month’s court appearance by the most prolific offender,” a spokesman said.

biko

Bit old but I'll allow it

Glad they are clamping down on these individuals now.

punisher5112

Wow I am amazed.

Why they can't be sent out to clean the mess they made is beyond me.

dr.fuzzenstein

the world wonders wrote: »

Man jailed and fined €5,600 over ‘cash for cars’ signs

WOW! Only 2 years to catch one tax dodger. I'd say not many people on the dodge are losing sleep over this.

jackofalltrades

Good to hear someone getting done for this.
It really takes some level of idiocy and selfishness to obscure road safety signs with Ads for your business.