Animal Rustling - Primetime

ganmo

Anybody watching the primetime programme on cattle & sheep russeling?
That dept woman wouldn't fill ya with confidence

Muckit

She looked like Herman Munster's sister. I didn't know if she was looking at me or for me.

Willfarman

A typical institutionalised civil servant.

ganmo

she said theft of sheep wasn't a problem because she had no numbers of sheep being stolen.
she mustn't realise that theft of sheep doesn't need to be notified to the dept, and she's in charge?

TUBBY

ganmo wrote: »

she said theft of sheep wasn't a problem because she had no numbers of sheep being stolen.
she mustn't realise that theft of sheep doesn't need to be notified to the dept, and she's in charge?

i think Miriam had two suck calves under her top

Brass Tag

Willfarman wrote: »

A typical institutionalised civil servant.

Exactly. Ostrich from head to toe. Keep the head in the sand and it will all go away.
Touch of the Martin Callinan's I thought. Ah, sure there is no problem with the penalty points system -;)

Sheep breeder

the guy miriam interview seemed to dismiss it as a small problem by going into the small percent for the number of animals on the island and the bigger picture of numbers killed compared to stolen.this is really a garda problem more than a dept problem, had sheep stolen two years ago went to the gardai and they didnt want to know as the fellow that dealt with the farmers was away and come back another day otherwise piss off, didnt even take note or write it in the day book

AP2014

TUBBY wrote: »

i think Miriam had two suck calves under her top

She could rear two anyway!

on the river

AP2014 wrote: »

She could rear two anyway!

She already reared 10

AP2014

on the river wrote: »

She already reared 10

Reckon the lift on milk quota helps.

on the river

AP2014 wrote: »

Reckon the lift on milk quota helps.

Ya that's why George lee looks so well

gozunda

Apart from the number of thefts - what about where the meat is going? The dept appeared to be in denial that it could be going into the food chain ' we have no evidence ...' :rolleyes:

I have had 'boys' call to me offering meat products from the back of the van. Now I will not buy from these guys cos I don't know where the products have come from or if it has been handled properly. There doesn't even seem to bes licensing system for these guys? Anyone know if their is any regulations set out for door to selling of meat etc?

Muckit

It would be very easy get rid of the meat l was thinking. Takeaways would be my guess. Buy some meat legit and have a receipt for it. Who is to say how many portions of beef and black bean went out on a night? All cash transactions. Record less than actually went out through the till and fill the remainder with the dodgy stuff. Very easy.

My other hunch would be certain communities buying the meat from the back of a van because it is cheap. I've seen the 'travelling shops.' No writing on the side funnily enough.

It's not just sufficient to find these illegal slaughter houses. They (gardai ) need to send out surveillance to see where the end product is ending up.

Count Mondego

I added the livestock theft to farm insurance this year. 100 quid extra but f&ck it.

Upstream

Count Mondego wrote: »

I added the livestock theft to farm insurance this year. 100 quid extra but f&ck it.

Is that a cost per animal?
How many animals does that cover?
I see FBD advertising it and meant to get a quote

Connemara Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

she said theft of sheep wasn't a problem because she had no numbers of sheep being stolen.
she mustn't realise that theft of sheep doesn't need to be notified to the dept, and she's in charge?

If tagged sheep were stolen surely the dept & Gardai would need to be notified to keep the register right. Untagged lambs would be a different story.

rangler1

Upstream wrote: »

Is that a cost per animal?
How many animals does that cover?
I see FBD advertising it and meant to get a quote

I think its worth it, for peace of mind at least.
Costs €1 per €1000 worth of stock on your farm

leg wax

lads if i was up to it i could get rid of quite a large amount of stolen cattle and get rid of them into my local factory,straight into the food chain,and its so simple.:mad:

rangler1

leg wax wrote: »

lads if i was up to it i could get rid of quite a large amount of stolen cattle and get rid of them into my local factory,straight into the food chain,and its so simple.:mad:

Strong words there, maybe you should tell the guards where you think the local factories system falls down,
Just after giving out to a neighbour here for buying meat out of a 'white van'

leg wax

rangler1 wrote: »

Strong words there, maybe you should tell the guards where you think the local factories system falls down,
Just after giving out to a neighbour here for buying meat out of a 'white van'

no the factories wont detect anything,how can they,as long as we can order our own replacement tags its simple.

rangler1

leg wax wrote: »

no the factories wont detect anything,how can they,as long as we can order our own replacement tags its simple.

What do you do with your own animal that has the original tag

leg wax

rangler1 wrote: »

What do you do with your own animal that has the original tag

if i am bad enough to go out and rob from a fellow farmer, i dont think it would bother me one bit if they were put into a big hole,lets just put it this way ,there are lads on a certain site that we all look at,they are looking for disabled and lame stock,lets just say they buy them fully over board,for 200 euro,or more,all they want is the blue card and off they go,swap cow or heifer for a big fat one stolen from you or me.so so simple.

on the river

leg wax wrote: »

if i am bad enough to go out and rob from a fellow farmer, i dont think it would bother me one bit if they were put into a big hole,lets just put it this way ,there are lads on a certain site that we all look at,they are looking for disabled and lame stock,lets just say they buy them fully over board,for 200 euro,or more,all they want is the blue card and off they go,swap cow or heifer for a big fat one stolen from you or me.so so simple.

That is the reality , there are some individuals out there who do this sort of thing. All we can do is lock are gates , have insurance and a good ak47 to keep them out:cool:

Brass Tag

At the price the factories pay and the way they apply penalties, one could say that cattle are being robbed in more ways than one!!

Count Mondego

Upstream wrote: »

Is that a cost per animal?
How many animals does that cover?
I see FBD advertising it and meant to get a quote

100 covering 80k of stock.

AP2014

Count Mondego wrote: »

100 covering 80k of stock.

Sounds like value, but jesus how many extras to do you have to pay to cover different scenarios. Thieft, lightening, etc

Rip off insurance companies.

v638sg7k1a92bx

It's a non issue. Less than 1% of the bovine and cattle population. The only reason Primetime ran with this story was to appeal to urban viewers. The line of questioning towards the Dept of Agriculture Vet was ridiculous "you're not on top of the issue" she was too polite and was trying not to say that this is a ridiculous story. Seriously, it was 133 cattle!!! That number is so low that the cattle could have fallen down a ditch or rambled into the bog.

Willfarman

There is no doubt that any amount of large scale criminal activity is being tolerated in the border counties.. Seems to be the price of peace maybe? How do you build and operate a medium sized abattoir without someone noticing. No road can be that remote. The Craic with the diesel is so incredulous you couldn't make it up.

MayoAreMagic

ganmo wrote: »

she said theft of sheep wasn't a problem because she had no numbers of sheep being stolen.
she mustn't realise that theft of sheep doesn't need to be notified to the dept, and she's in charge?

I'd say she inspired more rustling rather than deterred it...

onyerbikepat

A neighbour of mine had cattle stolen a while back. Just off a motorway and along a fairly busy road. I pass there now and there is old farm machinery parked inside the gate to stop another heist.
It's only a matter of time before they are caught in the middle of the night and a little rough justice handed out.
About 50 years ago some of my other neighbours were caught stealing cattle. Did time for it and all. It's the kind if thing people never forget.

gozunda

onyerbikepat wrote: »

A neighbour of mine had cattle stolen a while back. Just off a motorway and along a fairly busy road. I pass there now and there is old farm machinery parked inside the gate to stop another heist.
It's only a matter of time before they are caught in the middle of the night and a little rough justice handed out.
About 50 years ago some of my other neighbours were caught stealing cattle. Did time for it and all. It's the kind if thing people never forget.

A little over a hundred years ago the theft of livestock often involved transportation to Australia etc. I wonder is this one of the reasons why they have so many sheep out there

blue5000

For anyone that missed it
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10334486/

TUBBY

Ye mentioned that fbd cover theft. I got it this year and then read the small print. I can be corrected on this but...

first 500 euro on EACH animal not covered. Unless ya talking purebred or top end commercial, how useful is the insurance.

Count Mondego

AP2014 wrote: »

Sounds like value, but jesus how many extras to do you have to pay to cover different scenarios. Thieft, lightening, etc

Rip off insurance companies.

You're right, it's a con job, but I can afford that. I'd be less able to afford the loss of 5 or six yearlings.

Tubby, dead right. I'd get over 1 getting robbed so that provision isn't too bad.

Upstream

TUBBY wrote: »

first 500 euro on EACH animal not covered. Unless ya talking purebred or top end commercial, how useful is the insurance.

That's a very high excess per animal but I suppose it's still better than getting nothing for them at all

mayota

TUBBY wrote: »

Ye mentioned that fbd cover theft. I got it this year and then read the small print. I can be corrected on this but...

first 500 euro on EACH animal not covered. Unless ya talking purebred or top end commercial, how useful is the insurance.

Surely it's a €500 excess on a claim regardless of number of animals.

Borzoi

gozunda wrote: »

Apart from the number of thefts - what about where the meat is going? The dept appeared to be in denial that it could be going into the food chain ' we have no evidence ...' :rolleyes:
?

We had two callers recently, very nice middle aged Muslim men looking to buy a sheep. They had been up this way a few years back but couldn't remember who they'd bought from. I didn't know either but pointed them to some possibilities. Definitely going into the food chain, and could be reported stolen!

Miname

The rumour mills running wild around here at the moment. A large farmer with serious ground and a sfp of over 100k. Brought in for the thefts of a large percent of the animals .

Mad4simmental

Off the Face of the earth, still no word what happened.

Everyone should report the meat vans, licence plates ect to the department and Garda. If all is ok so be it but if everyone done it, it may catch a few!

http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/national/cattle-herd-vanishes-in-devils-triangle/story-fndo1yus-1226457695340?nk=da69b30651a0e983f83b0045acf79edf

Count Mondego

mayota wrote: »

Surely it's a €500 excess on a claim regardless of number of animals.

Correct

TUBBY

mayota wrote: »

Surely it's a €500 excess on a claim regardless of number of animals.

Just looked at the policy. text as below (some of the jargon left out).

Theft of Livestock
It is hereby declared and agreed that .... is extended to include loss of livestock stolen and unrecovered as a result of theft:

Excluding
Loss of livestock from unfenced land or common land
Any loss not reported to Garda within 48hrs
Any loss where there is no evidence of theft
Any loss whilst livestock are in transit
The first E500 of each and every loss.

I would read this as that if I had 10 cattle stolen, the first 500 of each and every loss is not covered.
If my reading is right, I wont be bothering with it next year.

18MonthsaSlave

Illegal Abatoir found in Monaghan

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gardai-search-illegal-abattoir-in-monaghan-645839.html

greysides

Amazing the effect of national exposure.

Connemara Farmer

TUBBY wrote: »

Excluding
Loss of livestock from unfenced land or common land
Any loss not reported to Garda within 48hrs
Any loss where there is no evidence of theft

Well that's a waste of time for any commonage farmer.

Upstream

TUBBY wrote: »

The first E500 of each and every loss.

I would read this as that if I had 10 cattle stolen, the first 500 of each and every loss is not covered.
If my reading is right, I wont be bothering with it next year.

Hi Tubby, if you had 10 cattle stolen in a single theft, would that not count as a single loss?

Surely a farmer who has 5 calves at €250 each stolen one night faces the same financial loss as another farmer who has a €1250 bullock stolen.

I'm not sure which is right, but I'll make a point of asking them

Nekarsulm

blue5000 wrote: »

For anyone that missed it
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10334486/

No photos of the "gentleman" involved! He is feeling a bit down in the mouth atm.

gazahayes

TUBBY wrote: »

Just looked at the policy. text as below (some of the jargon left out).

Theft of Livestock
It is hereby declared and agreed that .... is extended to include loss of livestock stolen and unrecovered as a result of theft:

Excluding
Loss of livestock from unfenced land or common land
Any loss not reported to Garda within 48hrs
Any loss where there is no evidence of theft
Any loss whilst livestock are in transit
The first E500 of each and every loss.

I would read this as that if I had 10 cattle stolen, the first 500 of each and every loss is not covered.
If my reading is right, I wont be bothering with it next year.

If the 10 cattle were stolen it'd be counted as the one loss. Say a value of 1000 each you'd get 10000 less the excess of 500 you'd get 9500

Cattlepen

Did the fella that stole them get a hiding or what??

Nekarsulm

Oh yes.............
He had a bit of a rep. for such activities, just was unlucky in that he picked cattle from a bit of rented ground near his own place, just on the southern side. Didn't check carefully enough who had rented it.

Cattlepen

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Oh yes.............
He had a bit of a rep. for such activities, just was unlucky in that he picked cattle from a bit of rented ground near his own place, just on the southern side. Didn't check carefully enough who had rented it.

Good enough for him. Couldn't have been bet hard enough. That's after putting me in great form. Justice done

emryan

I have had a most surreal experience with a stolen animal. Sent a lot of cattle for slaughter at end of March 2015. As we sorted out tag numbers and cards discovered on March 22 that one was missing.

He was missing a tag and I knew the animal - good luck I had taken pic on my phone to remind myself when ordering tag. Published it and bumped up ad on a well know website with stuff for sale.

Reported the theft to Gardai on April 1 st and we knew picture was taken on Jan 13th. Gardai did not have much sympathy thought I was there to claim insurance.
Animal was back in our shed on April 2 after 2000 views on that website. I was shocked in a nice way all that day --- who would believe this - only for the fact that my family had searched the shed fastidiously for this animal, on March 22 I would hardly believe it myself. He is wary of us and was has lost ground but hey who is complaining I was sure he was hanging on a meat hook somewhere ??

Lesson learned - I am sure the picture did it. Advice to farmers photograph your animals or better still install surveillance systems- one animal stolen would cover the cost.