Compulsory Tillage During The Wars

mikefoxo

Heard about this on a tv programme in the UK a while ago. Was compulsory tillage adopted in Ireland too? I suppose it was a certain percentage of the farm that had to be ploughed. There's an old horse-drawn plough in again a ditch on the farm, it's probably been there since WWII ended and some fella shagged it in:D

Nekarsulm

Yep, you had to plough a certain percentage of your land, don't know how much, 8 or 10 %. Lots of hilly fields up our way haven't been ploughed since. Lots were ploughed in "2 ridge lands" for drainage , and the track of them are still clearly to be seen, especially when the sun is low and casting a shadow in the right direction.

Connemara Farmer

I think you had to plant the crop you were told to plant, regardless of whether it'd fail or grow too. I must ask Dad about it again.

Farmer Pudsey

It was the last time a lot of land in this country was reseeded.

who the fug

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It was the last time a lot of land in this country was reseeded.

Bollicks , field reseeded in the eighties was done in the fifties and all the drainage was dug by hand.

Guard use to come out our valley by all accounts and make sure all was correct by all accounts

Reggie.

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I think you had to plant the crop you were told to plant, regardless of whether it'd fail or grow too. I must ask Dad about it again.

Spuds I think ya had to plant for food during the war. Most hilly land in the around here still have ridges on them from that time

who the fug

Reggie. wrote: »

Spuds I think ya had to plant for food during the war. Most hilly land in the around here still have ridges on them from that time

Not down our way them fecking lazy beds are older than the forties

Cattlepen

Think it was devaleras idea. Me da used to curse him about it

Reggie.

Cattlepen wrote: »

Think it was dealer's idea. Me da used to curse him about it

Same way he had the army out cutting turf

Dawggone

Reggie. wrote: »

Same way he had the army out cutting turf

They're still at that craic Reggie, by all accounts.
Way more dangerous than Syria.

Reggie.

Dawggone wrote: »

They're still at that craic Reggie, by all accounts.
Way more dangerous than Syria.

Caused alot of the desertions back then

sandydan

Reggie. wrote: »

Caused alot of the desertions back then

sure you can't be serious about bog cutting and desertion's, thought it was those who went to fight the gerries deserted,pay and pensions as well. uncle in law went to work in coal mines in England in war years .good pay and those that worked in coal mines avoided conscription , he said most English fellas preferred army to coal mine work.i thought army transported the turf ,around here farmers cut some if not all turf. most was wasted i believe. mother's family always maintained a big mountain of turf (finest black turf they recon)was stacked in central Galway maybe Eyre Square and soldiers and Gardai minded it ,according to them most melted in rain as no system was used to distribute fuel or how to allocate . must ask aunts , they are in their late eighties but should remember it

sandydan

Reggie. wrote: »

Spuds I think ya had to plant for food during the war. Most hilly land in the around here still have ridges on them from that time

i know neighbour(rip) had wheat growing ground and was told to sow extra to what he usually did. all were supposed to be self sufficient.

Reggie.

sandydan wrote: »

sure you can't be serious about bog cutting and desertion's, thought it was those who went to fight the gerries deserted,pay and pensions as well. uncle in law went to work in coal mines in England in war years .good pay and those that worked in coal mines avoided conscription , he said most English fellas preferred army to coal mine work.i thought army transported the turf ,around here farmers cut some if not all turf. most was wasted i believe. mother's family always maintained a big mountain of turf (finest black turf they recon)was stacked in central Galway maybe Eyre Square and soldiers and Gardai minded it ,according to them most melted in rain as no system was used to distribute fuel or how to allocate . must ask aunts , they are in their late eighties but should remember it

What happened was lads joined the army for X number of years and when ireland didn't join the war on the side of the allies they waited till their time was up to go and join the British army. Thing was the irish government decided they couldn't leave as they needed the army for turf cutting. So lads deserted the army as a result to join the Brits to fight in the war. They were branded as traitors of the state and they could not return after the war. A general pardon was only issued for them men the last while

sandydan

who the fug wrote: »

Bollicks , field reseeded in the eighties was done in the fifties and all the drainage was dug by hand.

Guard use to come out our valley by all accounts and make sure all was correct by all accounts

up to eighties guards were checking for weeds in farmers fields.
in our area a lot of boggy type fields were hand dug as deep as if cutting turf and some turf if usable was cut as well,holes were filled with stone by knocking ditches and ground levelled off,shallow drains were dug with combination of horse plough and digging deeper by hand and stone drains were put in, these collapsed as heavy machinery came in seventies for silage cutting and tractor ploughing as well.these "heavy" tractors were like feathers compared to whats in everyday use today.

kowtow

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I think you had to plant the crop you were told to plant, regardless of whether it'd fail or grow too. I must ask Dad about it again.

I'm beginning to understand how they came up with "Harvest 2020"

sandydan

kowtow wrote: »

I'm beginning to understand how they came up with "Harvest 2020"

ya and organisation and compliance is organised in same efficient manner with civil service model inherited from 1800s never mind the Irish solutions to resolve issues

Nekarsulm

sandydan wrote: »

up to eighties guards were checking for weeds in farmers fields.
in our area a lot of boggy type fields were hand dug as deep as if cutting turf and some turf if usable was cut as well,holes were filled with stone by knocking ditches and ground levelled off,shallow drains were dug with combination of horse plough and digging deeper by hand and stone drains were put in, these collapsed as heavy machinery came in seventies for silage cutting and tractor ploughing as well.these "heavy" tractors were like feathers compared to whats in everyday use today.

Remember going to square bale hay for a neighbour. This was in the early Nineties. He had a couple of "gardens" to bale, about an acre each, real moor ground. He was warning me about watching "the heavy side" of the baler didn't sink!
This was a NH 268 :rolleyes:

Connemara Farmer

Reggie. wrote: »

Spuds I think ya had to plant for food during the war. Most hilly land in the around here still have ridges on them from that time

There were different things, I remember oats being mentioned. Will be working with him most of the day tomorrow so will quiz if I can remember to ask!

sandydan

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Remember going to square bale hay for a neighbour. This was in the early Nineties. He had a couple of "gardens" to bale, about an acre each, real moor ground. He was warning me about watching "the heavy side" of the baler didn't sink!
This was a NH 268 :rolleyes:

yez were lucky there was an acre in them,some of a neighbours gardens where he cut hay in 70s were less than half acre,he was in his late fifties then and got an idea of cutting silage ,contractor nearly had a fit but mowed it and drew it in with buckrake off swarth, nearly brought in half acre of sods in process but he got his pit of silage same as big fellas, that was all he wanted, was as proud as punch in pub telling all he cut silage ,easy to keep a man happy in Ireland in late 70s, he had no car ,tractor or electricity, talk about keeping up the Joneses (if that's the correct spelling)

Nekarsulm

sandydan wrote: »

yez were lucky there was an acre in them,some of a neighbours gardens where he cut hay in 70s were less than half acre,he was in his late fifties then and got an idea of cutting silage ,contractor nearly had a fit but mowed it and drew it in with buckrake off swarth, nearly brought in half acre of sods in process but he got his pit of silage same as big fellas, that was all he wanted, was as proud as punch in pub telling all he cut silage ,easy to keep a man happy in Ireland in late 70s, he had no car ,tractor or electricity, talk about keeping up the Joneses (if that's the correct spelling)

Remember as a child we has a Silage Knife, made out of the disk from a Ferguson plough, cut into a tri-angle and sharpened. When the cows ate into the pit face and caused an overhang, you got up on top and cut the overhang off.
Health & safety, how are you!

sandydan

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Remember as a child we has a Silage Knife, made out of the disk from a Ferguson plough, cut into a tri-angle and sharpened. When the cows ate into the pit face and caused an overhang, you got up on top and cut the overhang off.
Health & safety, how are you!

had to buy hay-knife to cut out mould out of bales this past year. a fella i know had pushed in fresh pit against old left-over silage. following year when self feeding using some type of tombstone barrier last of fresh silage collapsed onto cows killing a few and injuring others.
in old silage pits back then you dealt with single chop silage that could withstand a considerable overhang. besides back then we regularly jumped off ditches 7-10 feet high, when taking shortcuts, and besides we were hardy (remember that definition) and didn't hurt as easily. no cushion on tractor seats then and no cabs either.the young un's today are spoilt and need more tlc

frazzledhome

The saying was " one more cow, one more sow and one more acre under the plough"

gozunda

mikefoxo wrote: »

Heard about this on a tv programme in the UK a while ago. Was compulsory tillage adopted in Ireland too? I suppose it was a certain percentage of the farm that had to be ploughed. There's an old horse-drawn plough in again a ditch on the farm, it's probably been there since WWII ended and some fella shagged it in:D

Compulsory tillage introduced in 1940

who the fug

sandydan wrote: »

up to eighties guards were checking for weeds in farmers fields.
in our area a lot of boggy type fields were hand dug as deep as if cutting turf and some turf if usable was cut as well,holes were filled with stone by knocking ditches and ground levelled off,shallow drains were dug with combination of horse plough and digging deeper by hand and stone drains were put in, these collapsed as heavy machinery came in seventies for silage cutting and tractor ploughing as well.these "heavy" tractors were like feathers compared to whats in everyday use today.

Round our way would have been the white stuff, rather than weeds. Specially on the run up to Xmass

Them drains in the field I did in the eighties had all been dug by hand in the fifties and your typical field drain put in, where still working thirty odd years later but their mouths where blocked

Biggest Tractor I ever saw was a Ford 8000 and it was just to big and any four wheel drives I saw just made bigger holes

sandydan

who the fug wrote: »

Round our way would have been the white stuff, rather than weeds. Specially on the run up to Xmass

Them drains in the field I did in the eighties had all been dug by hand in the fifties and your typical field drain put in, where still working thirty odd years later but their mouths where blocked

Biggest Tractor I ever saw was a Ford 8000 and it was just to big and any four wheel drives I saw just made bigger holes

well they were more into the drink around here . one woman woke at 6.30 to find yard filled with guards, spent half hour searching for liquid in house almost tore mattresses apart she said. searched yards dungheaps straw in sheds and ration house ditches bushes drains etc even took down some ceiling boards where electrician went into attic to fix wiring. in middle of it all a fella with a bad thirst arrived for bottle and was entertained with tea while guards completed search. so when all was settled down and peacefull the man of the house went out with his 4 prong pike and took away few pikes of dung from behind 10 cows in old cow stall and took a bottle of dew from under a foot of dung and asked fella if twas only the 1 he wanted.

sandydan

met a chap last night at meeting and he told me he knew a source of information on the war years and im waiting to get in contact with him. should be interesting as he is retired history teacher, when i get info ill pass it on. id say flak hemp, wheat and turf were very important issues around most parts so i wait and see what turns up.

Username John

Googling this threw back a few interesting links

http://www.iar.ie/Archive.shtml?IE%20LHA%20PP00293/

I just had a quick look, but this loks like an interesting doc...
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/agriculture/farmingsincethefamine/General,Details,-,Farming,Since,the,Famine.pdf

who the fug

sandydan wrote: »

well they were more into the drink around here . one woman woke at 6.30 to find yard filled with guards, spent half hour searching for liquid in house almost tore mattresses apart she said. searched yards dungheaps straw in sheds and ration house ditches bushes drains etc even took down some ceiling boards where electrician went into attic to fix wiring. in middle of it all a fella with a bad thirst arrived for bottle and was entertained with tea while guards completed search. so when all was settled down and peacefull the man of the house went out with his 4 prong pike and took away few pikes of dung from behind 10 cows in old cow stall and took a bottle of dew from under a foot of dung and asked fella if twas only the 1 he wanted.

White stuff = flash = Katie Daly = poiteen

Best one I ever saw was local supplier got followed into the valley , goes to his first contact they refused to take the load, goes to his cousins who refer him to me mother. ( he walked to our house and sold it at a discount)

The old dear got me out of bed to get rid, two houses raided and nought to show and the old dear made a profit.

sandydan

Username John wrote: »

Googling this threw back a few interesting links

http://www.iar.ie/Archive.shtml?IE%20LHA%20PP00293/

I just had a quick look, but this loks like an interesting doc...
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/agriculture/farmingsincethefamine/General,Details,-,Farming,Since,the,Famine.pdf

youve done some digging there, loads of info, must get to my source soon as possible, its mostly local to west cork id expect but interesting allsame. wonder about ground suitability for crops like wheat, neighbours rated valuation was higher than others locally due to wheat growing ability of about 4 acres.would artificial fertilizer compensate for ground fertility nowadays

sandydan

who the fug wrote: »

White stuff = flash = Katie Daly = poiteen

Best one I ever saw was local supplier got followed into the valley , goes to his first contact they refused to take the load, goes to his cousins who refer him to me mother. ( he walked to our house and sold it at a discount)

The old dear got me out of bed to get rid, two houses raided and nought to show and the old dear made a profit.

i bet a few "calves" were cured of their artritics around locally. interesting story i heard repeatedly of good moonshine seller, his local garda raided station (mass in farm-house followed by tea and biscuits) party about 4 in afternoon, checked all over found nothing, owner insisted he have drink before leaving "to show no hard feelings" so drop of whisky was agreed tipple and produced. man said to garda what he'd like to dilute his whisky. so water was agreed as suitable and man said ill get fresh water for you. "yerra said garda water in jug ill do fine and poured out a substantial amount of "water" from jug into whisky . well man said water is great drink when taken in right spirit. Garda finished drink and went back to garda station, not realising until much later in afternoon he diluted his whiskey with poiteen. next time he met the man in question he remarked some thing about water in right spirits,

sandydan

who the fug wrote: »

Not down our way them fecking lazy beds are older than the forties

heard this subject being discussed about ridges,ie. in some areas im told ridges are still to be seen mostly in mountainous areas where reclamation is deemed as overspend as ground is poor and may now be covered by planting trees if careful examination is done the ruins of dwelling houses are nearby,indicating they are potato ridges from famine times , the ones i was told about in west cork and in parts of Kerry that have survived up to recently were much less than half acre in size,
in penal times the British insisted on total area of tenants land being equally divided among all the family, i presume this was sons only but the result was if farmer had 2 acres and 4 sons each got half acre and to complicate matters as well they didn't get the plot where house(for want of a more charitable description) was erected so all plots were criss-crossing each other leading to more fueds etc.
in famine times and there were several famines in the 1800s, these plots were abandoned as loads of families were wiped out and food riots were common, ie where road construction was seen as way of providing food in return for work or slavery more like,food provided being taken to workers were attacked , but as English idea of food consisted of maize and other staples that Irish stomachs were unable to digest it caused more misery than starvation.

sandydan

mikefoxo wrote: »

Heard about this on a tv programme in the UK a while ago. Was compulsory tillage adopted in Ireland too? I suppose it was a certain percentage of the farm that had to be ploughed. There's an old horse-drawn plough in again a ditch on the farm, it's probably been there since WWII ended and some fella shagged it in:D

wonder can you carefully get that plough out of ditch and see who made it , didn't realize till recently that local blacksmiths made those ploughs. heard some fella talking about a "Whooley" plough and when i asked he said a local family made them and were in his opinion far superior for single horse ploughing than Pierce of Wexford ploughs. there was a "chill " plough, now i presume that was a certain design,some ploughs had what seemed to be a square chisel pointed bar instead of sock held in place by brackets squeezed in place by bolts. there was Pierce plough ,2 wheels with swivel head pulled by two horses, i liked that as it was less liable to hit you on chin as dept was controlled by the wheels. btw i hated horse ploughing and avoided it like plague.

Bullocks

sandydan wrote: »

sure you can't be serious about bog cutting and desertion's, thought it was those who went to fight the gerries deserted,pay and pensions as well. uncle in law went to work in coal mines in England in war years .good pay and those that worked in coal mines avoided conscription , he said most English fellas preferred army to coal mine work.i thought army transported the turf ,around here farmers cut some if not all turf. most was wasted i believe. mother's family always maintained a big mountain of turf (finest black turf they recon)was stacked in central Galway maybe Eyre Square and soldiers and Gardai minded it ,according to them most melted in rain as no system was used to distribute fuel or how to allocate . must ask aunts , they are in their late eighties but should remember it

I think there are old pictures in the house of the reeks of turf in eyre square and I cant remember if it was that the army used to load the trucks and trains with it to go up the country

sandydan

Bullocks wrote: »

I think there are old pictures in the house of the reeks of turf in eyre square and I cant remember if it was that the army used to load the trucks and trains with it to go up the country

my mother reckoned the best of it was melted in want of being stooked in reeks properly by those that knew how to do it and she reckoned as well that it was never divided up properly as no one in charge knew how or cared even less, it was generally meant for townspeople and cities but prioritizing those was issue as well. communications and sanctioning the deliveries probably had to be cleared in Dublin as well.minding it was where the money was in her opinion. suppose politics had a lot to do with it.
the idea behind it and the organisers were honorable and well meaning people dont get me wrong on that side of it but unfortunately waste was massive and amount of turf cut off bogs just has to be seen to believed. in my uncles bog there is a rock about 20 foot high and my father once told me the top of it was just protruding over the surface of the bog at start of war and it was cut down to that level 5 years later in that part of bog covering at least 6 acres, all thats left there now is cut-away bog and all is planted

Nekarsulm

sandydan wrote: »

wonder can you carefully get that plough out of ditch and see who made it , didn't realize till recently that local blacksmiths made those ploughs. heard some fella talking about a "Whooley" plough and when i asked he said a local family made them and were in his opinion far superior for single horse ploughing than Pierce of Wexford ploughs. there was a "chill " plough, now i presume that was a certain design,some ploughs had what seemed to be a square chisel pointed bar instead of sock held in place by brackets squeezed in place by bolts. there was Pierce plough ,2 wheels with swivel head pulled by two horses, i liked that as it was less liable to hit you on chin as dept was controlled by the wheels. btw i hated horse ploughing and avoided it like plague.

Seem to remember seeing reference to a horse plough which was advertised as having "chilled steel" in the mouldboard. Supposedly a better harder steel, according to the maker.

mikefoxo

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Seem to remember seeing reference to a horse plough which was advertised as having "chilled steel" in the mouldboard. Supposedly a better harder steel, according to the maker.

Might they mean chilled shares? I think that's how Ransomes got themselves going http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransomes,_Sims_%26_Jefferies

KatyMac

My grandfather had to divide out a big field into allotments during WW2. The patches can be seen even now. The neighbours planted spuds in their own patch. I think he wasn't able to grow the necessary amount himself so this was a way round it.
Afterwards my grandmother found a half sovereign in the field, lost by someone who had a patch. She kept it and handed it down to me. I wear it round my neck on a gold chain occasionally.

sandydan

i bet there are millions of stories relating to the war years some extremely sad, but have never been told and this thread could be the inspiration for a book or film maybe. was listening to Gay Byrne on Late Late last night and apart from the fact there is not another presenter like him , his story on the 1st WW and his fathers involvement is truly some thing a scriptwriter couldn't make up, ive seen the documentary on it and it was compelling if sometimes a horrible story of mans inhumanity to man and the attitude of officers who by and large represent the then upper echelons of British society and i would say reflected their attitude to all those born outside their privileged sector. remember the Kaiser and British monarchy and Czar of Russia were blood related so the poor in those countries were regarded in similar fashion

keep going

my mother used to spin one about her neighbour Sean who was called for an interveiw to explain why he needed to opt out of compulsery tillage .the problem was he didnt speak any english so the local boys rehrearsed the answers with him.the problem was at some point the interveiwer must have departed the script because when Sean was asked was he married he replied" no ,sheep would pay me better"