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Ordinary People

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Are they the same as 'normal people'?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    John Q. Taxpayer. Who wouldn't dream of voting for the loony left or the shinners. The type of lad who earns a decent wedge, put the head down, and now wants a small bit back. Will probably give FG the vote in the next General Election.

    Dream on, Enda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Because "de salt of the earth wurking class" is probably too cliched and patronising these days.

    Ah yes, "De Plain Peeple of Eyre-land" the shower of self interested chancers who had nothing to do with the country falling down the toilet.

    (Did get a laugh when the FF spokesman talked about how he hoped it wasn't a return to auction politics. I thought they had that copyrighted so no one else could use it!)


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Dream on, Enda.
    I think the next GE will be a shock to a lot of people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Stheno wrote: »
    I think the next GE will be a shock to a lot of people.

    Yes, mainly to Enda. His own constituency isn't too enamoured.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    tritium wrote: »
    Ah yes, "De Plain Peeple of Eyre-land" the shower of self interested chancers who had nothing to do with the country falling down the toilet.

    (Did get a laugh when the FF spokesman talked about how he hoped it wasn't a return to auction politics. I thought they had that copyrighted so no one else could use it!)

    The poor auld plain people of Ireland are a fine and noble sort of human. Very into the humility and the frugality and the sense of perspective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    John Q. Taxpayer. Who wouldn't dream of voting for the loony left or the shinners. The type of lad who earns a decent wedge, put the head down, and now wants a small bit back. Will probably give FG the vote in the next General Election.

    The Mediocre :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    To be honest, the cynic in me wonders whether both Paul and Pearse are really trying to champion and represent these "ordinary people" or if they're hell bent on maintaining a significant number of "ordinary people" in order to secure the "ordinary" vote.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Plates wrote: »
    If this has been covered before (Mods) please feel free to delete.

    In their Dail speeches today both Pearse Doherty and Paul Murphy referred to "Ordinary People". Does anyone have any insight into the parameters they use to define "Ordinary People"?

    Does that term imply that those who do not fit the definition are, by default, "Extraordinary People"?
    I keep hearing of the "squeezed low/middle income bracket" and what their average wage is. Its quite a bit higher than mine and my wife's combined income and we're getting by. Not rich but getting by. This bracket must be set by our 100,000 a year politicians to whom a wage of 40,000 seems low.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,406 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Are they the same as 'normal people'?

    Or even the "plain people of Ireland".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Stheno wrote: »
    No that would be the 7% of our workers who earn more than 100k per year yet contribute 24% of the overall tax take.

    Ordinary people would probably be the 76% on under 50k who contribute less than what those seven percent do.

    so what does that make those of us in the middle?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    so what does that make those of us in the middle?

    Ordieery daecent wuuuurkers .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Ordieery daecent wuuuurkers .

    or in other words the poor saps who pay the highest percentage of tax


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    or in other words the poor saps who pay the highest percentage of tax

    No, the highest earners do that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭caolfx


    Ordinary people - they think the Stig is brilliant and may even have a 'Stig' ornament on their desk at work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,790 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    No, the highest earners do that.

    The middle income earners which make up 23% pay 59% of Income and USC.

    Proportionately the highest 1% may pay more per person but the 23% of the middle is paying more as a whole


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    No, the highest earners do that.

    well if those on over 100K pay 24% of the tax take and those on under 50K pay less than that then that means that those in the middle must pay the rest. which would be more than 50%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    well if those on over 100K pay 24% of the tax take and those on under 50K pay less than that then that means that those in the middle must pay the rest. which would be more than 50%.


    Here's how it breaks down for income tax.
    (As per the ministers budget speech.

    1% of workers pay 21%
    23% of workers pay 59%
    76% of workers pay 20%.

    You can't get much more progressive than that, where the vast majority of workers pay just 1/5 of income tax.

    Or, 100 friends get a bill for €100 in a café.....
    1 guy pays €21
    23 guys pay €2.56 each
    76 folk pay €0.26 each.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Here's how it breaks down for income tax.
    (As per the ministers budget speech.

    1% of workers pay 21%
    23% of workers pay 59%
    76% of workers pay 20%.

    You can't get much more progressive than that, where the vast majority of workers pay just 1/5 of income tax.

    Or, 100 friends get a bill for €100 in a café.....
    1 guy pays €21
    23 guys pay €2.56 each
    76 folk pay €0.26 each.

    the post i originally replied to said that the top 7% paid 24% of the tax take. Presumably that was wrong. But even going on the figures you have provided it is the people in the middle that are getting screwed. The top 1% can afford tax advisors so probably pay nowhere near the percentage of tax that i do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    I keep hearing of the "squeezed low/middle income bracket" and what their average wage is. Its quite a bit higher than mine and my wife's combined income and we're getting by. Not rich but getting by. This bracket must be set by our 100,000 a year politicians to whom a wage of 40,000 seems low.

    Can you qualify that statement a bit? 2 kids, 2 cars, etc?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    But even going on the figures you have provided it is the people in the middle that are getting screwed.

    The top 1/4 of workers paying 80% of income tax seems to indicate that those in the middle are not being screwed on income tax.

    Around 1.5 million workers kick in 20% of income tax.
    The other 450k workers pay the rest.

    Unless there is confusion as to what a "middle" is?
    The top 1% can afford tax advisors so probably pay nowhere near the percentage of tax that i do.

    No doubt you have stats to back that up?

    Or, most of the top 1% are also PAYE & so taxes are deducted at source like anyone else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    The top 1/4 of workers paying 80% of income tax seems to indicate that those in the middle are not being screwed on income tax.

    Around 1.5 million workers kick in 20% of income tax.
    The other 450k workers pay the rest.

    Unless there is confusion as to what a "middle" is?



    No doubt you have stats to back that up?

    Or, most of the top 1% are also PAYE & so taxes are deducted at source like anyone else.

    no you're just changing the numbers you use. You've gone from the top 1% to the top 20%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    no you're just changing the numbers you use. You've gone from the top 1% to the top 20%.

    The numbers haven't changed!

    C'mon beano.

    Please tell me, if 76% of workers pay 20% of income tax in 2015.... How exactly is the guy in the middle being screwed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    In Germany a person on €18k pays about 26% tax on it.

    In Ireland a person on €18k pays about 3% tax on it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    In Germany a person on €18k pays about 26% tax on it.

    In Ireland a person on €18k pays about 3% tax on it.

    Its not as clear cut as that though. The person on 18k tops up the tax he pays on income in the vat and duty he pays on the things he consumes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    The numbers haven't changed!

    C'mon beano.

    Please tell me, if 76% of workers pay 20% of income tax in 2015.... How exactly is the guy in the middle being screwed?

    23% of workers pay 59%

    these are the people being screwed.

    By way of information what is the average income of the top 1%? The avergae income of the top 10% is 150,000 so presumably it is much higher for the top 1%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    syklops wrote: »
    Its not as clear cut as that though. The person on 18k tops up the tax he pays on income in the vat and duty he pays on the things he consumes.
    Yeah but so does everyone. My point is that if everyone paid a reasonable chunk of income tax, maybe we could afford the functioning first world services we aspire to


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Beano wrote: »
    23% of workers pay 59%

    these are the people being screwed.

    And they aren't the middle.
    They are in the upper 1/4 if all workers.

    The middle are part of the 76% contributing 20% of income taxes.

    Perplexed as to what part of 'middle' is so hard to fathom?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    And they aren't the middle.
    They are in the upper 1/4 if all workers.

    The middle are part of the 76% contributing 20% of income taxes.

    Perplexed as to what part of 'middle' is so hard to fathom?

    how are those 76% the middle? surely they are the bottom?
    1% of workers pay 21%
    23% of workers pay 59%
    76% of workers pay 20%.

    call me crazy but the 23% is in the middle there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Beano wrote: »
    the post i originally replied to said that the top 7% paid 24% of the tax take. Presumably that was wrong. But even going on the figures you have provided it is the people in the middle that are getting screwed. The top 1% can afford tax advisors so probably pay nowhere near the percentage of tax that i do.

    Don't assume that everyone over some arbitrary figure can avail of or would benefit from a tax adviser. A large portion of 'high' earners are PAYE workers too and have limited options to get out of paying tax - hence why they pay so much of the tax take relative to their numbers.

    Nice to see that the government set a figure of 70k in the budget as their definition if rich...


This discussion has been closed.
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