Max towing weights.

Dawggone

Is there a list of the above available on the web?
I'm looking for something for the OH for towing a double horsebox. Trying to stay away from a jeep.

Interslice

Dawggone wrote: »

Is there a list of the above available on the web?
I'm looking for something for the OH for towing a double horsebox. Trying to stay away from a jeep.

Yes google for eaxample audi allroad max towing capacity or http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp. The licencing has changed on this too. Basically any trailer designed to carry over 700kg will require a trailer licence. More info or the rsa website.

Chimaera

It'll be listed in the owner's manual for the vehicle. Some data sites include the towing weights. You'll have to do the legwork with Google.

CiniO

Interslice wrote: »

The licencing has changed on this too. Basically any trailer designed to carry over 700kg will require a trailer licence. More info or the rsa website.

That's not true.
Unless sum of D.G.V.W of vehicle and trailer don't exceed 3500kg, there's no need for BE licence.

R.O.R

Carzone lists a lot under the new car search. Think its under the dimensions bit if it's there.

Probably around 1800kg for most saloons, based on the Mazda I looked at.

tossy

parkers.co.uk is great for a list of vehicle specs. Also what Cino says is on the money. There is also no need for a jeep when towing twin axle trailers which is the next myth someone will no doubt post soon.

3500 kgs is the magic number for the whole package

Chimaera

tossy wrote: »

parkers.co.uk is great for a list of vehicle specs. Also what Cino says is on the money. There is also no need for a jeep when towing twin axle trailers which is the next myth someone will no doubt post soon.

3500 kgs is the magic number for the whole package

From my research on it, there are certain combinations where you can go up to 4250 kg on a B licence but I'm damned if I can remember right now. Someone really needs to do a flowchart on this thing!!

_Brian

Chimaera wrote: »

From my research on it, there are certain combinations where you can go up to 4250 kg on a B licence but I'm damned if I can remember right now. Someone really needs to do a flowchart on this thing!!

No option to go above 3500kg on a straight B licence.
And it's 3500kg design gross weight of the combined trailer and towing vehicle.

So, having a big 4x4 is actually a disadvantage. Some 4x4's will have a design gross vehicle weight of 2300kg, this only leaves allowance to tow a trailer with design gross weight of 1200 kg. So this excludes most if not all twin axle horse or cattle boxes being pulled by these large 4x4's.

Some folks think that they can tow a large trailer once they don't cross the 3500kg in actual weight. But it's important to read the category weight correctly , it referrs to design gross vehicle weight, what it's designed to carry - not what you are going to carry with it.

BrianD3

_Brian wrote: »

No option to go above 3500kg on a straight B licence.

There is - 3500 kg DGVW Transit van can tow a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence. Total - 4250 kg DGVW.

CiniO

Chimaera wrote: »

From my research on it, there are certain combinations where you can go up to 4250 kg on a B licence but I'm damned if I can remember right now. Someone really needs to do a flowchart on this thing!!

EU wide driver licensing system allows for towing when total D.G.V.W is up to 4250kg, even though when trailer D.G.V.W is above 750kg, on category B licence, but only when you have code 96 by your B category in your licence.

In many countries you can pass additional driving test to obtain this code, and then you can tow f.e. with car D.G.V.W of 2250kg, trailer with D.G.V.W of 2000kg (obviously assuming car is designed to tow such trailers).

I don't think though that in Ireland you can get this code added to your B licence.

_Brian

I'm on the phone so posting links is out.
But for those saying above 3500kg design gross vehicle train weight is possible on a regular B licence in Ireland, could ye post a link from an Irish site with details.

I've researched this in detail and 3500 is the limit mentioned on bother the RSA and licensing authority websites. It continues to shock me the amount if people who cannot get their heads around this issue.

_Brian

BrianD3 wrote: »

There is - 3500 kg DGVW Transit van can tow a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence. Total - 4250 kg DGVW.

I think this information is incorrect. Anywhere I've seen it detailed 3500kg is the limit.

guil

_Brian wrote: »

I'm on the phone so posting links is out.
But for those saying above 3500kg design gross vehicle train weight is possible on a regular B licence in Ireland, could ye post a link from an Irish site with details.

I've researched this in detail and 3500 is the limit mentioned on bother the RSA and licensing authority websites. It continues to shock me the amount if people who cannot get their heads around this issue.

If you looked at the RSA website you didn't look hard enough. It's there.

guil

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/

_Brian

guil wrote: »

If you looked at the RSA website you didn't look hard enough. It's there.

Thanks for putting me straight on that.

However , for OP the 3500kg limit will apply.

hi5

Here's a good site for car tow weights, http://www.gocaravanning.com/towcars/

I'd be looking at something like a Mercedes 300d.

mullingar

When it comes to towing there a 3 very important legal factors
- licence
- towing limit of car
- weight of trailer.


The towing weight limit of the car can be worked out by looking at the chassis plate. Simply take away the first two weight numbers (the train max weight and DGVW weight).

If you look at this VIN plate the towing limit of this car is 1500kg



Take that cars DGVW weight from the 'B' 3500kg licence limit, leaves a licensing max trailer DGVW of 1650kg, so on a B licence you can 100% legally tow a trailer such as an Ifor box trailer with a DGVW of 1400kg in that Ford

However, if you are driving a jeep that has a DGVW of 2200kg, your licence will not allow you to tow that same trailer of 1400kg DGVW as the total is 3600kg.

TrailerBob

A lot of the above is useful for the OP re licensing

But the OP asked about a double horsebox

The most common horse box on the road today is the Ifor Williams 505... This has a design gross weight of 2340kg. This means that even with an EB license it is technically not ok for any saloon car or even many soft roaders to tow them. The gross weight exceeds the towing capacity of the car.

The law applies to the gross design weight, and not the actual weight you have in the trailer. IMO 2 large horses behind a mid size car is not a great idea at all, regardless of law

mullingar

Ah I missed that horse box as conversation went about a BE licence.

Bottom line OP, you need a BE licence and a car that has a towing capacity of at least 2000kg to be able to to a 900kg trailer plus 2x 500kg horses.

Silvera

BrianD3 wrote: »

There is - 3500 kg DGVW Transit van can tow a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence. Total - 4250 kg DGVW.

This is correct.
As stated on RSA, and other, websites.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote:

View Post
There is - 3500 kg DGVW Transit van can tow a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence. Total - 4250 kg DGVW..

For clarity, a 3000 kg DGVW Transit etc. can pull a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence meaning the total in that case is 3750 kg.

A category B vehicle has DGVW of up to 3500 kg. Subject to manufacturer towing limits, a Cat B vehicle can be used to tow a trailer up to 750 kg DGVW with a B licence.

If the trailer is >750 kg DGVW, the limit is 3500 kg DGVW for the towcar + trailer combination. Also, the unladen weight of the towcar must be greater than (or at least equal to, can't remember which) the DGVW of the trailer. I don't think that has been mentioned in the thread and it is important. I'm not sure if the latter rule also applies if the trailer is <750 kg DGVW.

To sum up, for towing with a B licence you want a car with a combination of high unladen weight, high manufacturer towing weight but low DGVW and a trailer that is as light as possible in terms of both unladen weight and DGVW.

I did some research on this before and IIRC found that certain models of the VW Passat CC, Audi A5 and BMW 3 series convertible are the ideal towcars for a B licence.

Also, it may be possible to downgrade a trailer. Let's say An Ifor Williams horse trailer unladen weight is ~900 kg and DGVW is ~2300 kg. I'm not sure what a horse weighs but lets say a small horse weighs 300 kg and you want to put two of them in the trailer. You don't need the full capacity of the trailer so you get it downgraded to 1500 kg DGVW. You might now be just about legal to tow it on a B licence using an A5 or 3 series etc.

mullingar

Great post.


It's cheaper and easier just to get a BE licence as I did 6 months ago to make the most of my cars 2000kg towing limit (1700kg kerb weight)

bigroad

On the parkers website he rates an audi a8 3.0tdi with towing weight 2300kgs.

tossy

mullingar wrote: »

Great post.


It's cheaper and easier just to get a BE licence as I did 6 months ago to make the most of my cars 2000kg towing limit (1700kg kerb weight)

Would you mind telling us a little about the test ?

CiniO

BrianD3 wrote: »

For clarity, a 3000 kg DGVW Transit etc. can pull a 750 kg DGVW trailer on a B licence meaning the total in that case is 3750 kg.

A category B vehicle has DGVW of up to 3500 kg. Subject to manufacturer towing limits, a Cat B vehicle can be used to tow a trailer up to 750 kg DGVW with a B licence.

If the trailer is >750 kg DGVW, the limit is 3500 kg DGVW for the towcar + trailer combination. Also, the unladen weight of the towcar must be greater than (or at least equal to, can't remember which) the DGVW of the trailer. I don't think that has been mentioned in the thread and it is important. I'm not sure if the latter rule also applies if the trailer is <750 kg DGVW.

To sum up, for towing with a B licence you want a car with a combination of high unladen weight, high manufacturer towing weight but low DGVW and a trailer that is as light as possible in terms of both unladen weight and DGVW.

I did some research on this before and IIRC found that certain models of the VW Passat CC, Audi A5 and BMW 3 series convertible are the ideal towcars for a B licence.

The bolded text is incorrect.
This used to be a requirement, but is not any more, since law was updated in 2011.
If sum of car D.G.V.W and trailer D.G.V.W does not exceed 3500kg, then such combination can be driven on B licence.

Also, it may be possible to downgrade a trailer. Let's say An Ifor Williams horse trailer unladen weight is ~900 kg and DGVW is ~2300 kg. I'm not sure what a horse weighs but lets say a small horse weighs 300 kg and you want to put two of them in the trailer. You don't need the full capacity of the trailer so you get it downgraded to 1500 kg DGVW. You might now be just about legal to tow it on a B licence using an A5 or 3 series etc.

How do you downgrade trailer in Ireland, if there isn't even any system of trailer registration or testing here ?
Trailers can be home made without any plate, etc...

Chimaera

CiniO wrote: »

The bolded text is incorrect.
This used to be a requirement, but is not any more, since law was updated in 2011.
If sum of car D.G.V.W and trailer D.G.V.W does not exceed 3500kg, then such combination can be driven on B licence.



How do you downgrade trailer in Ireland, if there isn't even any system of trailer registration or testing here ?
Trailers can be home made without any plate, etc...

Type approval is being phased in for trailers at the moment. It's impossible to buy a new coupling without a plate on it now and once type approval for one offs kicks in if your coupling is plated after that date and you don't have a matching plate for the complete trailer you'll be in trouble.

Dawggone

Thanks everyone for the info.
Looks like I'll have to buy a jeep as the weight to be towed is ~2750kg gross.

bigroad

Is the trailer that heavy with the two horses.
Yea it looks like a jeep or van.
A long wheel base opel frontera 2.2dti can tow 2800kg and it weighs 1800 if thats any use.

mullingar

tossy wrote: »

Would you mind telling us a little about the test ?

Its handy enough.

You need to sit a theory test if you never sat one before and apply for a second licence, a BE learner permit.

Once you have your licence permit you can immediately apply for a test.

For the test, make sure you do at least one lesson so you know the test route and make sure you do the test in a manual as your licence will be restricted to an auto if you use an auto.

There is a requirement on the trailer, it must be a closed box design, at least the same height as the towing vehicle and it MUST have 30x solid 4inch blocks for a load weight of around 600kg. A horse box is perfect for this.

Cost? Approx €300 and I used a local driver training company's horse box for a lesson & for the test.

mullingar

Dawggone wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the info.
Looks like I'll have to buy a jeep as the weight to be towed is ~2750kg gross.

Are you looking at the actual laden weight of the day? Or the Design GVW? The DGVW is for your licence, it's the actual weight being towed should determine your vehicle

You can legally tow a horsebox with a DGVW of 2750kg with a humble diesel focus if the Unladen trailer weight is say 900kg plus 1 large horse of 600kg = 1500kg,

Dawggone

mullingar wrote: »

Are you looking at the actual laden weight of the day? Or the Design GVW? The DGVW is for your licence, it's the actual weight being towed should determine your vehicle

You can legally tow a horsebox with a DGVW of 2750kg with a humble diesel focus if the Unladen trailer weight is say 900kg plus 1 large horse of 600kg = 1500kg,

Not bothered about licence, we both have hgv permits.
The gross weight being towed will be ~ 2750kg.

mullingar

Yup, jeep or van defo required.

bigroad

If you have a hgv c plus e as in artic you are well covered once the towing vehicle is plated for towing 2750 kg .

CiniO

Dawggone wrote: »

Not bothered about licence, we both have hgv permits.
The gross weight being towed will be ~ 2750kg.

What is HGV permit?

Dawggone

CiniO wrote: »

What is HGV permit?

Heavy goods vehicle. Artic truck.

CiniO

Dawggone wrote: »

Heavy goods vehicle. Artic truck.

So in other words CE licence

Dawggone

CiniO wrote: »

So in other words CE licence

Sorry, old school.

Markcheese

You might have to be picky about your 4x4 as well,pretty sure a defender,pajero and landcruiser are rated up to 3.5 ton .. Hilux isn't...

Dawggone

Markcheese wrote: »

You might have to be picky about your 4x4 as well,pretty sure a defender,pajero and landcruiser are rated up to 3.5 ton .. Hilux isn't...

Think I like the look of the Range Rover. Are they problematic?

bigroad

Dawggone wrote: »

Think I like the look of the Range Rover. Are they problematic?

do some reserch yourself.google is your friend.If you have a hgv licence you should know about towing.

kay 9

Markcheese wrote: »

You might have to be picky about your 4x4 as well,pretty sure a defender,pajero and landcruiser are rated up to 3.5 ton .. Hilux isn't...

Pajero & defender is 3.5, landcruiser is only rated to 3t but still adequate for a horse box.

renofan

Not sure if posting in right place but here goes, recently did the BE test and got my licence the other day and beside the BE category it has the code 79.06. On the explanation sheet that came with the licence it says this code means that I can tow a trailer with a Max authorised weight in excess of 3,500 kg.

I'm a bit confused with all this towing malarkey....what does it mean as BE normally is up to 3,500kg. So can I just tow bigger trailers but only have a max weight of 3,500kg or can I tow more that 3,500kg?

mullingar

renofan wrote: »

Not sure if posting in right place but here goes, recently did the BE test and got my licence the other day and beside the BE category it has the code 79.06. On the explanation sheet that came with the licence it says this code means that I can tow a trailer with a Max authorised weight in excess of 3,500 kg.

I'm a bit confused with all this towing malarkey....what does it mean as BE normally is up to 3,500kg. So can I just tow bigger trailers but only have a max weight of 3,500kg or can I tow more that 3,500kg?

You must have your BE learner licence a while as there was a cut off around 2 years ago.

Makes no difference for 99% of occasions as there are very few B vehicles that can tow >3500kg and also very few trailers on the market rated >3500kg designed to be pulled on a regular tow hitch.

renofan

mullingar wrote: »

You must have your BE learner licence a while as there was a cut off around 2 years ago.

Makes no difference for 99% of occasions as there are very few B vehicles that can tow >3500kg and also very few trailers on the market rated >3500kg designed to be pulled on a regular tow hitch.

I actually got the learner permit 12th June this year! I did the theory test a few weeks before that. And did the test the 1st week of Sept. Would it be because I did the test in a Toyota Landcruiser and a large box trailer full of cement blocks? (I borrowed these as didn't have a trailer big enough myself plus I'd a cv joint gone on my car!) The trailer was bigger than a horse box anyways.