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One standard scratch for 2/3 day competitions

  • 12-10-2014 6:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering, in the club i am a member of have our weekend competition spread out over 3 days yet only have show a standard scratch for the whole comp rather than one SS per each day of the comp. Does the club through the auspices of the handicap sec have discretion on whether they return the SS for each day or the competition overall?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭tax_tutor1


    Just wondering, in the club i am a member of have our weekend competition spread out over 3 days yet only have show a standard scratch for the whole comp rather than one SS per each day of the comp. Does the club through the auspices of the handicap sec have discretion on whether they return the SS for each day or the competition overall?

    Came across same issue and ask club competition secretary. He said that per GUI it was at the individual clubs discretion whether or not to calculate a separate CSS for each day of a multi-day competition. I personally think separate CSS should be calculated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    tax_tutor1 wrote: »
    Came across same issue and ask club competition secretary. He said that per GUI it was at the individual clubs discretion whether or not to calculate a separate CSS for each day of a multi-day competition. I personally think separate CSS should be calculated.

    It "should" be, but the big consideration is time and the time of the person volunteering to do the handicap secretary/competition secretary position. I can totally understand why a club would set a single CSS for an entire weekend


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    I had time last night to look at the CONGU PDF and on page 32 18.2 it clearly says that a SS has to be returned for each day of the competition, no if's or but's. i Dont buy the arguement that it may take a lot of extra time to calculate this as clubs now have all their competitions computerised. There have been 20 or so 3 day comps where i play sometimes with very different weather conditions on the Friday compared to the Sunday, this results in a player having a really good net score on a fine day say the Sunday having his handicap reduction somewhat insulated from the poorer scores returned on a wet and windy Friday or Saturday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    I had time last night to look at the CONGU PDF and on page 32 18.2 it clearly says that a SS has to be returned for each day of the competition, no if's or but's. i Dont buy the arguement that it may take a lot of extra time to calculate this as clubs now have all their competitions computerised.

    Well, if you have loads of time on your hands, why not volunteer to do the job yourself and see how it goes ?

    To restart a competition for every single day, someone HAS to be out there at the computer to set the competition, close the competition and reset it for the next morning.

    The only other option would be to remote access in, if your club will allow it, But that still requires you being available Friday, Saturday and Sunday night to do all the heavy lifting.... Forget about going out for pints some night because the responsibility is on YOU

    But like you said, you've had the time to go through the GUI's rulebook to find your answer, so no doubt you'd have loads of time to do this.



    (ftr, I am not currently involved in committee and my home club does set separate days, but i was once Competition secretary and it is a painfully time consuming job. Don't knock it till you've tried it..... )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭thoscon


    I'm the competition secretary in our club and we changed our SS to seperate days on the weekend on the advice of a GUI official i spoke to at an inter club event .
    It is more work for me but it's the right way to do it ,since ive started to do it ive noticed some weekends the SS been different on both days .
    For me personally the only difference is that I have to go over a bit earlier on a Sunday and close off Saturday's scores .On the Sundays I don't play it takes longer to do the weekend comp because first thing I have to do is seperate all the scorecards from Saturday and Sunday before starting to check them and then close off each day and then combine both days.
    I'm looking forward to non qualifying to going back to the old way !!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    Rikand wrote: »
    Well, if you have loads of time on your hands, why not volunteer to do the job yourself and see how it goes ?

    To restart a competition for every single day, someone HAS to be out there at the computer to set the competition, close the competition and reset it for the next morning.

    The only other option would be to remote access in, if your club will allow it, But that still requires you being available Friday, Saturday and Sunday night to do all the heavy lifting.... Forget about going out for pints some night because the responsibility is on YOU

    But like you said, you've had the time to go through the GUI's rulebook to find your answer, so no doubt you'd have loads of time to do this.



    (ftr, I am not currently involved in committee and my home club does set separate days, but i was once Competition secretary and it is a painfully time consuming job. Don't knock it till you've tried it..... )

    Whether i have enough time to do the job has nothing to do with it Rikland, if you take on any job there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, some clubs are returning SS for each day and some are not, those that are not are in breech of the rules from what i can see and therefore their members handicaps are not being kept in the corect manner. If the handicap secetary has not got enough time well dont take on the job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭Ciaranra


    My club has 1 sss for weekend comps but i like it that way.
    Competing for 1 medal etc against a field over 3 days


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    They used to do a single competition for the whole weekend in my place. Now only the medals are played over the full weekend, the standard stableford/v-par comps are split between Sat & Sun


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Whether i have enough time to do the job has nothing to do with it Rikland, if you take on any job there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, some clubs are returning SS for each day and some are not, those that are not are in breech of the rules from what i can see and therefore their members handicaps are not being kept in the corect manner. If the handicap secetary has not got enough time well dont take on the job.

    If you want it done right. Ya gotta do it yourself! ;)

    Btw, I wasnt defending your club but clearly they don't have someone who can make the commitment. And finding people to help out isn't easy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    This is really a let down for players and really should be put an end to by the members of any club.

    Volunteering for club positions is great , but it should be put to any candidates what is expected from the outset, and those with the time can volunteer, those without can give it a miss.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,939 ✭✭✭Russman


    Volunteering for club positions is great , but it should be put to any candidates what is expected from the outset, and those with the time can volunteer, those without can give it a miss.

    100%, but,
    Speaking from experience of doing competitions, you'll get the volunteers at the start of the year and it'll all be grand in theory, a team of 5 or 6 people will agree to rotate and do alternate days/dates and you "think" you'll end up doing maybe one weekend a month. Then the season starts and everyone has an excuse and 1 or 2 people end up doing the whole thing, which is a massive commitment.
    Very, very hard to find people to actually give that sort of commitment. Yet everyone will complain if the results are late going up but nobody offers to help out...........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,512 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Everything russman said


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    Ciaranra wrote: »
    My club has 1 sss for weekend comps but i like it that way.
    Competing for 1 medal etc against a field over 3 days

    Nothing changes Ciaran, 1 medal competition over 3 days, fine but there needs to be a standard scratch returned for each day. If you look at some of the October medal results from other clubs that are played over more than 1 day they have a standard scratch for each day and quite often the standard scratch is different. If clubs are not doing this as per regulations then their Handicap lists are not accurate and may be leaving themselves open to sanction from the GUI. Now if i have the wrong end of the stick on this issue someone please give me some evidence which i will graciously accept.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭Freemount09


    thoscon wrote: »
    I'm the competition secretary in our club and we changed our SS to seperate days on the weekend on the advice of a GUI official i spoke to at an inter club event .
    It is more work for me but it's the right way to do it ,since ive started to do it ive noticed some weekends the SS been different on both days .
    For me personally the only difference is that I have to go over a bit earlier on a Sunday and close off Saturday's scores .On the Sundays I don't play it takes longer to do the weekend comp because first thing I have to do is seperate all the scorecards from Saturday and Sunday before starting to check them and then close off each day and then combine both days.
    I'm looking forward to non qualifying to going back to the old way !!!



    Can I resurect this thread ? When comp sec closes off Fridays and Saturdays comps are the results available on HDID straight away and if so isn't this an advantage to those yet to play the competiton on the Sunday ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭thoscon


    Can I resurect this thread ? When comp sec closes off Fridays and Saturdays comps are the results available on HDID straight away and if so isn't this an advantage to those yet to play the competiton on the Sunday ?
    That's not the way we do it ,if he does the scores offline it won't automatically go to howdidido , I'd post Saturdays & Sunday's scores plus the overall score when doing Sunday's scores
    Personally I don't agree that if those playing Sunday know the scores its an advantage, knowing the scores is not going to make you play any better


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭Freemount09


    thoscon wrote: »
    That's not the way we do it ,if he does the scores offline it won't automatically go to howdidido , I'd post Saturdays & Sunday's scores plus the overall score when doing Sunday's scores
    Personally I don't agree that if those playing Sunday know the scores its an advantage, knowing the scores is not going to make you play any better



    Cheers Thoscon, it won't make you play better but it might stop someone so enclined entering a score of 42 if they knew that this wouldn't get them on the podium !? Sorry not familiar with the ins and outs of role of Comp sec, but our Comp sec says he has to close off each day and scores are uploaded automatically and nothing he can do, would you mind outlining this process of doing them 'offline' is this very manual ? PM if preferred ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭thoscon


    Cheers Thoscon, it won't make you play better but it might stop someone so enclined entering a score of 42 if they knew that this wouldn't get them on the podium !? Sorry not familiar with the ins and outs of role of Comp sec, but our Comp sec says he has to close off each day and scores are uploaded automatically and nothing he can do, would you mind outlining this process of doing them 'offline' is this very manual ? PM if preferred ?

    Well that's true but as always you have to rely on everyone's honesty. In most cases word has got round anyways if theres a good score on the Saturday.
    The way our system works is that as soon as a comp is closed it automatically uploads to howdidido but if the internet is not connected it can't upload and you upload it manually on the Sunday so really it's a simple matter of turning off the internet when closing the comp


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    On the Masterscore board system which IMHO is much better than the how did i do, you can set up 2 day competitions way before the date saving the need to be there in the morning once the sign in is up and running and when you close them off say on the Sunday evening,it will give you the standard scratch for both days. It also has a much clearer way of presenting data to you with all your previous scores showing vertically, with better color differentiation and your scores going back well over a year. Great for team managers. You can also have your club match plays, birdie leagues etc easily accessible in the "more competitions" section. Another thing that all clubs should do is have open access so that anyone can look at all clubs competition results.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭thoscon


    On the Masterscore board system which IMHO is much better than the how did i do, you can set up 2 day competitions way before the date saving the need to be there in the morning once the sign in is up and running and when you close them off say on the Sunday evening,it will give you the standard scratch for both days. It also has a much clearer way of presenting data to you with all your previous scores showing vertically, with better color differentiation and your scores going back well over a year. Great for team managers. You can also have your club match plays, birdie leagues etc easily accessible in the "more competitions" section. Another thing that all clubs should do is have open access so that anyone can look at all clubs competition results.
    Howdidido is the same set up, I set up both days seperately in advance, the only reason I do Saturday's scores on a Sunday morning it just makes things easier on a Sunday evening .
    Not sure about the Matchplays but we posted birdie league table from the system for the members to view .
    On howdidido all comps are available for viewing


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    On the Masterscore board system which IMHO is much better than the how did i do, you can set up 2 day competitions way before the date saving the need to be there in the morning once the sign in is up and running and when you close them off say on the Sunday evening,it will give you the standard scratch for both days. It also has a much clearer way of presenting data to you with all your previous scores showing vertically, with better color differentiation and your scores going back well over a year. Great for team managers. You can also have your club match plays, birdie leagues etc easily accessible in the "more competitions" section. Another thing that all clubs should do is have open access so that anyone can look at all clubs competition results.

    I prefer Masterscore too, impressive stats


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Kingswood Rover


    thoscon wrote: »
    Howdidido is the same set up, I set up both days seperately in advance, the only reason I do Saturday's scores on a Sunday morning it just makes things easier on a Sunday evening .
    Not sure about the Matchplays but we posted birdie league table from the system for the members to view .
    On howdidido all comps are available for viewing
    Yes it is just not as easy to use and the display of info is much clearer on Master.


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