How strict is the "garden >25 sq. m." planning rule for extensions?

CamillaRhodes

We're getting a small extension built on the back of our house, for which our architect and builder have said we don't need planning permission (it'll be <40 sq.m.) However, I just read the regulation that your remaining garden must be greater than 25 sq. m. to avoid having to apply for planning permission. I measured our garden this morning and think it may be just slightly under that, ~24 sq.m. (it's roughly 4.5m x 5.5m). I'm wondering whether this is something that could come back to bite us when we come to sell our house (if we go ahead with the extension without pp), or if the rule isn't applied that strictly? I'd appreciate your advice.

BryanF

Take this up with your architect. S/he should be providing a cert of compliance that it's planning exempt. If it were me I'd submit a section 5 exemption pack to the planners outlining all the particulars. What stage is the works at? 25msq open space is what the exemption states, it potentially becomes an issue if you sell, if you don't have approval from the council that is.

CamillaRhodes

Architect only drew up the initial plan; we're not using them for the build (it's only a small 2m x 3m sunroom + utility room / loo). They said we wouldn't need PP, but never mentioned a 'cert of compliance' - is this a council issued form? If so, can we have our building contractor complete it? We haven't started the works yet.

Also, €80 fee?! What the...?!

DOCARCH

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

I'm wondering whether this is something that could come back to bite us when we come to sell our house (if we go ahead with the extension without pp), or if the rule isn't applied that strictly? I'd appreciate your advice.

It's a black and white issue. If less than 25m.sq. (even if it's 24.9m.sq.) you need planning permission.

If you have not started building yet, reduce the size of the proposed extension accordingly (if you do not want to apply for planning permission).

CamillaRhodes

OK, I think we need to do some serious and specific measuring of the garden this evening.

If we did need planning permission, do you guys happen to know the turnaround time for applications?

BryanF

You haven't started so do as DOC say above

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

Architect only drew up the initial plan; we're not using them for the build (it's only a small 2m x 3m sunroom + utility room / loo). They said we wouldn't need PP, but never mentioned a 'cert of compliance' - is this a council issued form? If so, can we have our building contractor complete it? We haven't started the works yet.

Also, €80 fee?! What the...?!

to answer your questions: no compliance cert (planning & building regs) also H&S is your responsibility, these services are generally provided by an arch or eng. The 80€ fee is a council charge for assessing the section 5 application.

CamillaRhodes

BryanF wrote: »

no compliance cert (planning & building regs) also H&S is your responsibility

can you explain what you mean here? sorry, I don't understand your terminology.

BryanF

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

can you explain what you mean here? sorry, I don't understand your terminology.

1. Cert of compliance with building regulations http://www.riai.ie/consumer_services/working_with_an_architect/the_project_stages/ ( see last paragraph)
2. Cert of compliance with planning regulations http://conveyancinghandbook.lawsociety.ie/Chap07/07-34.pdf
3. (H&s)Health & safety regulations http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/Guide_for_Homeowners.html

If something goes wrong these are what will be looked for - 1&2 might be when you come to sell the property. With the h&s - ( and I give an extreme example) if the builder cuts his hand off and you have not complied with your h&s responsibilities then it's on your head.

CamillaRhodes

Thx Bryan. Are these Certs (1 & 2) usually issued by builders / contractors, if you're not using an architect / eng, as must be the case quite often when people are just adding on a little sun-room extension?

I had a read through H&S, don't think it'll be an issue, our contractor comes highly recommended, we know people who've had work done by him before, professional outfit, etc.

I think the solution will be to shave a few inches off the planned sun-room, as we're literally only a few square centimeters missing in the garden, so then we'll then definitely be PP-free.

BryanF

I think you'll find I've answered your above questions already.

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

Thx Bryan.
Are these Certs (1 & 2) usually issued by builders / contractors,

not really.

if you're not using an architect / eng, as must be the case quite often when people are just adding on a little sun-room extension?

typcailly on bigger projects, you deal with this outside of the contract. But given its a small job why not ask them can they supply an eng/arch to provide certs, but have this in writing before you start work

I had a read through H&S, don't think it'll be an issue,

you must satisfy yourself that you have full-filled YOUR responsibilities: as i see it there will be a least three contractors on site and chances are they will be there for more than 30 days (plumber, electrician & general builder for example). However as you say its minor work, but we cant visualize/ comment so I would suggest you send the HSA an email outlining the nature of the proposed works, with perhaps a few photos & plan and ask them to confirm your obligations

our contractor comes highly recommended, we know people who've had work done by him before, professional outfit, etc.

that's good but not really relevant. note YOUR responsibilities - ignorance is no longer a defense

I think the solution will be to shave a few inches off the planned sun-room, as we're literally only a few square centimeters missing in the garden, so then we'll then definitely be PP-free.

that may well take care of the issue. but a section 5 is always a good idea, chances are the dwgs given to your contractor are adeqaute for submission - these things seem overkill in the moment but its when the solicitor comes looking for them when your trying to sell...

best of luck with your project

Gumbo

And Op, don't forget you still need to meet the minimum building regulations with regard to wall, floor and roof construction. Structurally and thermally.