Two Ryanairs have just hit each other at DUB

Alaba320 · 07-10-2014 5:49am #1

Just listening on frequency and heard a Ryanair say they "clipped" another on their left. Just happened this minute

Alaba320 · 07-10-2014 5:51am

Alaba320 wrote: »

Just listening on frequency and heard a Ryanair say they "clipped" another on their left. Just happened this minute

Initially it sounded as they were being pushed back, but now they said it happened on F-outer and Alpha, so I'm presuming aircraft were under own power. All start ups have been suspended

07-10-2014 6:44am

Alaba320 wrote: »

Initially it sounded as they were being pushed back, but now they said it happened on F-outer and Alpha, so I'm presuming aircraft were under own power. All start ups have been suspended

Woah big wings !

I'm going to guess he meant F 1 and alpha. (Pilot)

Highflyer13 · 07-10-2014 6:50am

Tweet: https://twitter.com/EmzCarr/status/519370251033911296

Reported across the various news websites now. Seems like a collision of winglet and tail whilst taxiing.

sjb25 · 07-10-2014 7:12am

Heard a stupid woman in news saying her plane was going way to fast at near take off speed FFS where do these people come from

Tenger · 07-10-2014 7:14am

Yup.. RTE story:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1007/650519-ryanair-dublin-airport/

In a statement Ryanair said: "Two of our aircraft were taxiing slowly to the runway at Dublin Airport this morning. The winglet of one aircraft appears to have scraped the tail of the other.
There was no impact on customers on board. Ryanair has contacted the IAA and is working with them to return both aircraft to stand and allow normal operations at Dublin Airport to resume.

"Ryanair apologises sincerely to customers for any inconvenience."

Surely the delay is impacting on the pax?
Looking at the pics its a bit more than a "scraped the tail of another", the stab has part of the winglet attached to it.

homerjay2005 · 07-10-2014 7:15am

Am i right in saying this is the 4th incident like this for Ryanair this year?

Lapin · 07-10-2014 7:15am

THE DAILY MAIL - WEDNESDAY 08 OCTOBER 2014

TWO RYANAIR JETS COLLIDE IN DUBLIN.

HUNDREDS OF PASSENGERS IN PANIC EVACUATION

LATEST IN A STRING OF EVENTS INVOLVING LOW COST AIRLINE

THOUSANDS DELAYED AT AIRPORT

devnull · 07-10-2014 7:36am

Probably not too far off the DM.

Who would be responsible for avoiding these kind of things? Airline or ground handling / ATC

vicwatson · 07-10-2014 7:37am

^^^^^

PART OF AIRPORT ON FIRE

AIRPORT EXPLODES KILLING THOUSANDS

DUBLIN IN FLAMES

IRELAND FALLS INTO THE ATLANTIC

lol

17larsson · 07-10-2014 7:42am

Collision. Smash. Terrified passengers. Broken wings. Dublin airport shutdown. MH370. Only two parachutes. We're all going to die

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 7:49am

sjb25 wrote: »

Heard a stupid woman in news saying her plane was going way to fast at near take off speed FFS where do these people come from

Maybe not so stupid. Clearly her plane was going way too fast. Part of the winglet is embedded in the horizontal stabiliser of the other aircraft ffs.
(Oh well at least the crews stopped this time rather than continuing their journey)

sparrowcar · 07-10-2014 7:55am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Maybe not so stupid. Clearly her plane was going way too fast. Part of the winglet is embedded in the horizontal stabiliser of the other aircraft ffs.
(Oh well at least the crews stopped this time rather than continuing their journey)

Seriously?

Lads focus a bit here. Since when can any object weighing over 50 tonne go from 140kts to 0kts in less than 10ft? Look at the picture attached!

Let's leave the sensationalist comments to the daily fail.

2 stroke · 07-10-2014 7:55am

TWO RYANAIR JETS CRASH ON LUNAR SURFACE.

kub · 07-10-2014 7:57am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

(Oh well at least the crews stopped this time rather than continuing their journey)

Right there is proof of the new caring Ryanair.

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 8:01am

sparrowcar wrote: »

Seriously?

Lads focus a bit here. Since when can any object weighing over 50 tonne go from 140kts to 0kts in less than 10ft? Look at the picture attached!

Let's leave the sensationalist comments to the daily fail.

Where's the sensationalist comment? If the crew wasn't sure they had clearance, they should have been going at 0kts, not 10, 20 or anything else. Also, looking at the damage, I'd hazard that it was going a lot faster than 10kts. Nothing sensationalist about that.

Bummer1234 · 07-10-2014 8:21am

Aircraft still has its transponder on, Still coming up on fr24 by the looks of it.

2 stroke · 07-10-2014 8:24am

I havnt time (work), someone wind it back and check the speed.

bikeman1 · 07-10-2014 8:34am

So EI-EMH is one of the aircraft involved, anyone know the other one? And its destination?

Lapin · 07-10-2014 8:36am

And they're off

'Top of wing ripped off' no less.

PukkaStukka · 07-10-2014 8:40am

Lapin wrote: »

And they're off

'Top of wing ripped off' no less.

A masterpiece of gratuitous sensationalism unworthy of the denunciation it truly deserves.

bikeman1 · 07-10-2014 8:42am

bikeman1 wrote: »

So EI-EMH is one of the aircraft involved, anyone know the other one? And its destination?

Found the answer to my own question. The other aircraft involved is EI-EKK performing FR 42 to Brussels Chaleroi.

billie1b · 07-10-2014 9:06am

2 stroke wrote: »

I havnt time (work), someone wind it back and check the speed.

According to playback on FR24 the FR812 was going 15kt and the FR042 was stopped at the time.

Spanish Eyes · 07-10-2014 9:19am

Will the pilots lose their jobs over this, or is Ground Control involved aswell?

Glad it's not a big deal, no one hurt or dead, just a bit of a delay. That's good.

Bummer1234 · 07-10-2014 9:21am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Will the pilots lose their jobs over this, or is Ground Control involved aswell?

Glad it's not a big deal, no one hurt or dead, just a bit of a delay. That's good.

Costly for ryanair so someone will have to pay.

sparrowcar · 07-10-2014 9:44am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Where's the sensationalist comment? If the crew wasn't sure they had clearance, they should have been going at 0kts, not 10, 20 or anything else. Also, looking at the damage, I'd hazard that it was going a lot faster than 10kts. Nothing sensationalist about that.

Quote: ProfessorPlum
Clearly her plane was going way too fast.

??

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 9:52am

sparrowcar wrote: »

Quote: ProfessorPlum
Clearly her plane was going way too fast.

??

Like I said - if the aircraft collided - which they did - the aircraft was going too fast. Simples. When you are taxiing an aircraft you should be going slow enough that you can stop if there is a conflict. When close to other aircraft, as clearly these aircraft were, crews need to be extra vigilant, and when in doubt stop.
So clearly, the aircraft was going way too fast, as it collided with the other aircraft.

basill · 07-10-2014 9:59am

Will the pilots lose their jobs over this, or is Ground Control involved aswell?

It is likely that they don't have jobs per se. Probably employed by a shelf company and contract solely to Ryanair obtaining their work through an agency. They don't have to be let go as such should FR ultimately decide it no longer requires their services. A few months of a blank roster will be enough to get the message across. Bills have to be paid and families fed somehow and the crews will disappear from wherever they came from.

CruelCoin · 07-10-2014 10:01am

PukkaStukka wrote: »

A masterpiece of gratuitous sensationalism unworthy of the denunciation it truly deserves.

You're looking at the same picture we are?

The top of the wing is indeed ripped off. How else could you decribe it? "Pulled gently apart by michaels' sweet nothings"

Into The Blue · 07-10-2014 10:06am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Like I said - if the aircraft collided - which they did - the aircraft was going too fast. Simple. When you are taxiing an aircraft you should be going slow enough that you can stop if there is a conflict. When close to other aircraft, as clearly these aircraft were, crews need to be extra vigilant, and when in doubt stop.
So clearly, the aircraft was going way too fast, as it collided with the other aircraft.

You have no reason to say it was down to excess speed. You're operating under the assumption that they could see the impact coming and were going too fast to avoid it.

But it's more probable that the points man just made a human error and didn't notice the impending collision.

billie1b · 07-10-2014 10:08am

CruelCoin wrote: »

You're looking at the same picture we are?

The top of the 'wingtip' is indeed ripped off. How else could you decribe it? "Pulled gently apart by michaels' sweet nothings"

I corrected that for you, the wingtips are actually very light and fragile, two strong enough people would most likely be able to bend and snap one

Growler!!! · 07-10-2014 10:10am

Into The Blue wrote: »

You have no reason to say it was down to excess speed. You're operating under the assumption that they could see the impact coming and were going too fast to avoid it.

But it's more probable that the points man just made a human error and didn't notice the impending collision.

What's a points man?

Does he have a higher rank than the aircraft commander who is responsible for the aircraft?

Into The Blue · 07-10-2014 10:13am

Growler!!! wrote: »

What's a points man?

Does he have a higher rank than the aircraft commander who is responsible for the aircraft?

What's the lad with the lightsabers called?
Might not have a higher rank, but should have a better view..

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 10:16am

Into The Blue wrote: »

You have no reason to say it was down to excess speed. You're operating under the assumption that they could see the impact coming and were going too fast to avoid it.

But it's more probable that the points man just made a human error and didn't notice the impending collision.

I'm operating under the assumption that the commander is responsible for the safe conduct of the flight, and s/he must be sure there is no risk of conflict. The fact that the two aircraft collided implies that any speed - even 1kt - was excessive in the circumstance. Even if they used wing men (which afaik they don't) there would be none out on the taxiway, so it was the crew who made a human error, which now they will probably pay dearly for. As Basil said, if they are contractors, they may find themselves with a quiet few months (years) ahead of them.

Into The Blue · 07-10-2014 10:17am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

The fact that the two aircraft collided implies that any speed - even 1kt - was excessive in the circumstance

We'll just agree to disagree on that.

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 10:21am

Into The Blue wrote: »

We'll just agree to disagree on that.

So I take it that you think it's ok to taxi / drive into things? If you can't see where you're going you stop, right? Weather you're on a tricycle or a 737. It really isn't that complicated.

novarock · 07-10-2014 10:26am

Looks like they finally got away then...

http://www.flightradar24.com/RYR65ND/4832158

stop · 07-10-2014 10:31am

Ryanair not wasting time pointing fingers

Ryanair said both planes were under the instruction of Dublin Airport Air Traffic Control at the time of the incident.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-airport-planes-runway-1710016-Oct2014/

ukoda · 07-10-2014 10:32am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

So I take it that you think it's ok to taxi / drive into things? If you can't see where you're going you stop, right? Weather you're on a tricycle or a 737. It really isn't that complicated.

he was too close to the other plane and didn't realise it, it happens every other day in other means of transport.

They collided because he didn't think he was that close to the other plane, not because he was speeding down the runway

Dublinflyer · 07-10-2014 10:34am

Some people will argue about anything. Until all the facts are established be the AAIU everything is just guesswork by people who do not have the facts. What was the ground controllers instruction an did they say to proceed or "when aircraft is clear proceed" etc. Did one of the aircraft not follow it's instructions. Did the aircraft that had it's elevator struck stop suddenly for some reason. There are a thousand other questions that will be asked. The events that lead up to this incident will come to light and all going well people will learn from it and move on.

sparrowcar · 07-10-2014 10:35am

I'll be bowing out of the thread until the official report comes out. It's clear that many posters haven't a clue about airport operations.

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 10:36am

ukoda wrote: »

he was too close to the other plane and didn't realise it, it happens every other day in other means of transport.

They collided because he didn't think he was that close to the other plane, not because he was speeding down the runway

He collided because he didn't stop when he didn't have sufficient clearance. 'thinking your not that close' doesn't cut it in this form of transport. The wing tip is easily fixed, but if that elevator needs replacing that's a big lump of cash, not to mention the career of the lad/lassie in the left seat. Had he been 'speeding down the runway', he would have been in the clear!

ukoda · 07-10-2014 10:38am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

He collided because he didn't stop when he didn't have sufficient clearance. 'thinking your not that close' doesn't cut it in this form of transport. The wing tip is easily fixed, but if that elevator needs replacing that's a big lump of cash, not to mention the career of the lad/lassie in the left seat. Had he been 'speeding down the runway', he would have been in the clear!

as others have said, none of us have any idea the exact cause of the incident, it could have been any number of factors.

but its obvious someone somewhere didn't realise how close the planes were and thought they had a green light to move

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 10:40am

Dublinflyer wrote: »

Some people will argue about anything. Until all the facts are established be the AAIU everything is just guesswork by people who do not have the facts. What was the ground controllers instruction an did they say to proceed or "when aircraft is clear proceed" etc. Did one of the aircraft not follow it's instructions. Did the aircraft that had it's elevator struck stop suddenly for some reason. There are a thousand other questions that will be asked. The events that lead up to this incident will come to light and all going well people will learn from it and move on.

Regardless of ATC instructions, it is up to the commander of the aircraft to remain clear and ensure wing tip clearance. Looking at the picture in the last link posted, it would seem even more damning for the crew of the aircraft on Alpha. There may be 'mitigating circumstances', but at the end of the day this will fall firmly in the lap of the guy in the left seat of FR815. I don't envy him. Mistakes happen.

ProfessorPlum · 07-10-2014 10:45am

sparrowcar wrote: »

I'll be bowing out of the thread until the official report comes out. It's clear that many posters haven't a clue about airport operations.

Indeed.

billie1b · 07-10-2014 10:50am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Regardless of ATC instructions, it is up to the commander of the aircraft to remain clear and ensure wing tip clearance. Looking at the picture in the last link posted, it would seem even more damning for the crew of the aircraft on Alpha. There may be 'mitigating circumstances', but at the end of the day this will fall firmly in the lap of the guy in the left seat of FR815. I don't envy him. Mistakes happen.

Im nearly sure where it happened is an incursion hotspot, I thought extra vigilance would come into play with it being a hotspot and the amount of movements at that hour

Dublinflyer · 07-10-2014 10:50am

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Regardless of ATC instructions, it is up to the commander of the aircraft to remain clear and ensure wing tip clearance. Looking at the picture in the last link posted, it would seem even more damning for the crew of the aircraft on Alpha. There may be 'mitigating circumstances', but at the end of the day this will fall firmly in the lap of the guy in the left seat of FR815. I don't envy him. Mistakes happen.

As someone who has sat in the left seat of an aircraft I can tell you know that when it's a dark morning it is almost impossible to to gauge where the end of the wing is, you almost have to break your neck to turn around to see the tip. You are relaying on ATC to give you the clearance and you assume that you are clear when they do. There are so many factors that come into play here I will leave the speculation to the armchair pilots who want to come up to their own ideas based on what they see on twitter, in the paper and on the radio. In fact RTE were saying this happened on the runway. It didn't.

Based on what I could see out the office window this morning and having heard the atc tapes I have my own idea of where the fault was but I will leave it to the very qualified guys and gals in the AAIU to present the facts.

PukkaStukka · 07-10-2014 10:54am

CruelCoin wrote: »

You're looking at the same picture we are?

The top of the wing is indeed ripped off. How else could you decribe it? "Pulled gently apart by michaels' sweet nothings"

I'm having a jab at the media coverage of it. "Passengers left shocked...passengers watched in horror....I thought we were going to fast".

Of course it shouldn't have happened but not wishing to be flippant, I've seen more damage from a car crash. This is the sort of nonsense journalism I despise.

MoeJay · 07-10-2014 10:57am

That'll be the end of simultaneous 28/34 departures in the morning for a while! Maybe.

Anyhow, LHR always had on the ATIS (haven't been for a while) a specific instruction about wingtip clearance at the runway holding areas - effectively reminding crew it was their responsibility...

olive20 · 07-10-2014 10:59am

Dual Runway ops.........was bound to happen especially with the layout of E1 and A. Such a shame.

Getting a giggle alright from the "Armchair Experts" here. **** happens

olive20 · 07-10-2014 11:00am

Dual Runway ops.........was bound to happen especially with the layout of E1/F and A taxiways. Such a shame.

Getting a giggle alright from the "Armchair Experts" here. **** happens

Two Ryanairs have just hit each other at DUB

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