Suffolk Street closed this weekend [11+12/10/2014] - emergency paving works

thomasj

So dublin bus are saying that suffolk street will be closed this weekend due to emergency paving works and as a result buses will serve nassau street, westland row, pearse street and westmoreland street. I can only Imagine what the traffic is going to be like.

I'm surprised though that they're not sending some buses up through georges street itsgoing to be chaos.

On a side note it shows that so many routes Are at the mercy of this narrow stretch.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=4214

AlekSmart

thomasj wrote: »

So dublin bus are saying that suffolk street will be closed this weekend due to emergency paving works and as a result buses will serve nassau street, westland row, pearse street and westmoreland street. I can only Imagine what the traffic is going to be like.

I'm surprised though that they're not sending some buses up through georges street itsgoing to be chaos.

On a side note it shows that so many routes Are at the mercy of this narrow stretch.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=4214

Has anybody,I wonder,done a count of how many Bus movements are scheduled through Suffolk St each day ?

I never lose an opportunity to remind any of the huffers n puffers about QBC's and suchlike,that Suffolk Street and then Church Lane are an integral part of the N11 QBC.....and they also,for good measure handle a lot of N3 QBC routes as well.....Explaining this codology to a German can require some skill,more appropriate to a Disneyland employee !!

TheBandicoot

I'd get used to it, fairly sure that kind of routing will be permanent once BXD is in place.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Has anybody,I wonder,done a count of how many Bus movements are scheduled through Suffolk St each day ?

I never lose an opportunity to remind any of the huffers n puffers about QBC's and suchlike,that Suffolk Street and then Church Lane are an integral part of the N11 QBC.....and they also,for good measure handle a lot of N3 QBC routes as well.....Explaining this codology to a German can require some skill,more appropriate to a Disneyland employee !!

It's like getting a camel EVERY camel through the eye of the needle at the same time!

I see emergency pavement works and hope if a person was seriously injured they make a full recovery because it would take a death or serious injury to get such works done on Suffolk Street. most safety works and improvement works in this country are "on the long finger" only done as a knee-jerk reaction when someone gets killed or injured!

LXFlyer

TheBandicoot wrote: »

I'd get used to it, fairly sure that kind of routing will be permanent once BXD is in place.

The plan is to split the routes during the construction phase either via Camden Street/Georges Street or Kildare Street/Westland Row/Pearse Street.

It is certainly the plan, as I understand it, that buses will post-construction then return to their current routings and share the lower part of Grafton Street and Nassau Street with LUAS post-construction.

devnull

AlekSmart wrote: »

Has anybody,I wonder,done a count of how many Bus movements are scheduled through Suffolk St each day ?

I never lose an opportunity to remind any of the huffers n puffers about QBC's and suchlike,that Suffolk Street and then Church Lane are an integral part of the N11 QBC.....and they also,for good measure handle a lot of N3 QBC routes as well.....Explaining this codology to a German can require some skill,more appropriate to a Disneyland employee !!

The way bus stops are laid out at Suffolk Street is ridiculous.

You have a first Dublin Bus stop that handles Xpressos and about 3 other routes, and another stop right next to the Aircoach, City Tours, and a few other stops that houses about 20 high frequency routes.

Needs to be a far better spread, since the end of Suffolk Street is always congested, and to be honest I'd quite like to see a ban on stopping at both Suffolk Street and Westmoreland Street or just around the corner from westmoreland Street and Westmoreland Street itself. One of the other or nothing.

punisher5112

Don't forget Taxi drivers using as a rank and delivery vans and trucks and also cash trucks and drinks deliveries on both sides.

They need to organise the whole thing much better and have traffic wardens or clampers enforcing.

I noticed a new coach tour and they are using the rtpi info board poles.(green 142 tour coaches)

LuckyLloyd

Meh, it's not ideal but that's the nature of the city Center.

Its absence will really cause chaos this weekend though.

LXFlyer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, it's not ideal but that's the nature of the city Center.

Its absence will really cause chaos this weekend though.

I hardly think it will cause chaos. Buses and taxis are the only traffic affected. It's at the weekend when there is far less traffic and there are far fewer buses. The diverted buses will have bus lanes for most of the route.

Tow

devnull wrote: »

The way bus stops are laid out at Suffolk Street is ridiculous.

And that is the improved version, at one stage there were 24 routes stopping at just one of the stops. In addition they need more lines on the electronic signs, they only display buses arriving in the next 2 of 3 minutes.

devnull

Have they changed it again recently? Because last time I was there, the first stop took Xpressos and 26/26/ and other Lucan routes only and the other stop, nbext to the stops of other operators took huge amounts, always thought it was a little odd to load the stop that has coaches and tour buses parking there with huge amounts of routes and the other stop to have very little in comparison.

But as I said the way to fix it is stop buses and coaches stopping at both Westmoreland Street and Suffolk Street. then it would make things much much easier and allow no extra services to stop there from any other operators going forward.

I would never have sanctioned cityscape and Dublin Coach for instance.

TheBandicoot

In a previous thread there was an idea to reduce Suffolk St to just one lane with a very wide footpath, and have it as a single extended bus stop with buses queuing.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I hardly think it will cause chaos. Buses and taxis are the only traffic affected. It's at the weekend when there is far less traffic and there are far fewer buses. The diverted buses will have bus lanes for most of the route.

Given that the Anti-Water Charges Protest is also taking place on Saturday,I would be far more confident of visiting Paddy Power on this one....;)

(On a more serious note,should things turn nasty at this protest,any major road opening will leave a LOT of potential ammunition lying around-Those who witnessed the Love-Ulster riot will have an appreciation of the role played by the O Connell St Paving works in supplying the protesters)

In addition the Saturday Coach Traffic along Nassau Street will still be in position,and I confidently predict that NO general Car Parking restrictions will,be imposed along Nassau Street either.

MY response to this closure would be:-

1.A 48 Hour Clearway along Nassau St/Clare St from Grafton St to Merrion Square.NO Pay & Display Parking permitted.

2.ALL outbound Nassau St Dublin Bus Stage Carriage routes re-located to TCD/Grafton St and Bottom of Kildare Street 50/50 basis,NO route stopping at BOTH locations.

3.NO Coach Parking-City Tour Operations permitted along Nassau St,relocated instead to Merrion Sq WEST,again with Car Parking suspended to facilitate space provision.

4.Inbound Dublin Bus route diversions split 1/3rd between Camden St/Georges St-Dawson St/Nassau St and Merrion Row/Merrion St/Clare St.

5.Dublin Bus to operate dedicated Short Workings on X-City routes,eg: 46A Dun Laoire-Earlsfort Tce and return 46A Phoenix Park- Parnell Square and Return.

My focus would be to recognise that there is a Problem, address it,by directing resources which will exascerbate the Problem AWAY from that Problem.

Additionally,all of this needs to be accompanied by PUBLICITY,and lots of repetition of the message....:eek:

LXFlyer

To be honest Alek, the now almost weekly protest marches (about one subject or another) in the city centre already cause significant disruption to Dublin Bus services as it is virtually every Saturday afternoon.

The rolling road closures that ensue as a result of the marches mean that any hope of keeping schedules intact evaporate.

However, I don't think that this road closure per se will cause chaos. Excepting the time while the protest march is en route, the buses should be able to divert with only minimal delay (circa. 5 minutes).

StreetLight

Why are protest marches allowed to bring the centre of a major European city to a virtual standstill anyway?

TheBandicoot

Since when has Dublin been a major European capital..

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

To be honest Alek, the now almost weekly protest marches (about one subject or another) in the city centre already cause significant disruption to Dublin Bus services as it is virtually every Saturday afternoon.

The rolling road closures that ensue as a result of the marches mean that any hope of keeping schedules intact evaporate.

However, I don't think that this road closure per se will cause chaos. Excepting the time while the protest march is en route, the buses should be able to divert with only minimal delay (circa. 5 minutes).

We shall see.

Sadly,from what I can gather,it's business as normal,with minimal actual diversions.

This will most likely result in Nassau St's Stops being used by Routes travelling in opposite directions,at the same time.....Nope,you're right ......I suspect it will work like a well-oiled Swiss Watch

Carawaystick

StreetLight wrote: »

Why are protest marches allowed to bring the centre of a major European city to a virtual standstill anyway?

Because most major eurpoean cities are in democracies.

kirving

The paving on such a crowded street should be absolutely top notch. I don't know how to further separate pedestrians from busses, but a much wider footpath would help, and possibly barriers.

A week or two ago I was hit on the back of head by a Dublin Bus mirror while I was walking on the pavement, hard enough that passers by heard it and asked was I OK. I emailed them letting them know, but really to remind DB that it the next person who simply slips on a crowded pavement could be killed if busses aren't more careful.

AlekSmart

Kevin Irving wrote: »

The paving on such a crowded street should be absolutely top notch. I don't know how to further separate pedestrians from busses, but a much wider footpath would help, and possibly barriers.

A week or two ago I was hit on the back of head by a Dublin Bus mirror while I was walking on the pavement, hard enough that passers by heard it and asked was I OK. I emailed them letting them know, but really to remind DB that it the next person who simply slips on a crowded pavement could be killed if busses aren't more careful.

Just to put a bit of perspective on it,and perhaps underline the reality of up to 18 Tonne MPV's and Pedestrians being mixed willy-nilly on places such as Suffolk Street......

www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=6896f56f-f549-4d26...

http://saferoxfordstreet.blogspot.ie/2013/12/details-of-pedestrians-and-cyclists.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/14/nyregion/man-is-hit-by-bus-mirror.html

http://accidentdatacenter.com/us/texas/austin-tx/austin/14/02/11/man-struck-and-injured-capital-metro-transit-bus-mirror-while-crossing-street-against-light

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-traffic-pedestrian-killed-by-bus-on-george-street-in-sydney-cbd-20140505-zr4z2.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/theshack/pedestrian-struck-killed-uws-biker-hit-bus-harlem-blog-entry-1.1625707

....and that's only the half of it.

Remember,a pedestrian is generally nimble,and unpredictable in their decisions about where and when to walk...A Bus on the other hand does not have anything like the ability to deviate from it's course,or even Stop when faced with the sudden appearance of a pedestrian/cyclist.

Always bear in mind that behind that Mirror and Bracket is the momentum of up to 18 Tonnes of STEEL,which could Kill you,should it impact you at even single Km/H speeds...

I totally concur about your Barriers suggestion,however when I have suggested it before,I was reminded of their negative effects on the appearance of the City.....take a moment or two later today and watch the pedestrian flow along the facade of the Bank of Ireland,College Green....Only hope here is that the BXD Barriers will be retained (Which might aid the Luas drivers too )

In the meantime...MIND how you go !

AlekSmart

One other element of modern "Easy-Access" operations which has to be borne in mind,is the requirement to bring the Bus as close to the Kerb as possible (Not always possible though....)

To this end,if one observes the design of Disability Friendly Bus Stop Kerbing (fka Kassel),the textured edging equates to the space which the Mirror will occupy when the Bus's front wheels are correctly positioned against the sculptured kerb.

Standing behind this textured band would be highly recommended,particularly at busy stops or high pedestrian volume areas.....;)

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, it's not ideal but that's the nature of the city Center.

Its absence will really cause chaos this weekend though.

Agree here, it's a potential choke point like when there was the accident on the junction of Dawson St, but then again it's the city centre.

Padraig Mor

Kevin Irving wrote: »

The paving on such a crowded street should be absolutely top notch. I don't know how to further separate pedestrians from busses, but a much wider footpath would help, and possibly barriers.

A week or two ago I was hit on the back of head by a Dublin Bus mirror while I was walking on the pavement, hard enough that passers by heard it and asked was I OK. I emailed them letting them know, but really to remind DB that it the next person who simply slips on a crowded pavement could be killed if busses aren't more careful.

My brother nearly died after apparently being hit on the back of the head by the mirror of a bus in London and then falling forward and smashing his skull like an eggshell on the ground. Had to have his face partially peeled off to repair the damage, and has a metal plate on his skull since.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

To be honest Alek, the now almost weekly protest marches (about one subject or another) in the city centre already cause significant disruption to Dublin Bus services as it is virtually every Saturday afternoon.

The rolling road closures that ensue as a result of the marches mean that any hope of keeping schedules intact evaporate.

However, I don't think that this road closure per se will cause chaos. Excepting the time while the protest march is en route, the buses should be able to divert with only minimal delay (circa. 5 minutes).

On a point of order,and with the benefit of mature reflection,perhaps that 5 Minute delay figure should have been stretched a wee bit......:)

Quite a significant lack of information to EVERYBODY involved,both staff and customers alike....

AlekSmart

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My brother nearly died after apparently being hit on the back of the head by the mirror of a bus in London and then falling forward and smashing his skull like an eggshell on the ground. Had to have his face partially peeled off to repair the damage, and has a metal plate on his skull since.

As you can see from those links posted earlier,it's a Worldwide issue,both design and operational.

Thankfully Dublin has not had a Mirror-Strike fatality as yet,and hopefully won't have either.

Everybody knows the dangers,but other than a mixture of Commonsense,Safe Driving Practice and Luck,definitive answers do not exist.

In the City Centre area,with Kassel Kerbed Stops,observe the Tactile Barrier width,but elsewhere at non-Kassel'd stops....

Stay Alert,Be Aware and Take Care.

Rock of Gibraltar

My two latest annoyances with Suffolk Street are deliveries being made at morning rush hour and sandwich boards on the footpath.

Several times over the past month delivery lorries have been parked on both sides of the street around 9 am causing traffic chaos as buses negotiate the chicane letting people off nowhere near the pavement.

AlekSmart

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

My two latest annoyances with Suffolk Street are deliveries being made at morning rush hour and sandwich boards on the footpath.

Several times over the past month delivery lorries have been parked on both sides of the street around 9 am causing traffic chaos as buses negotiate the chicane letting people off nowhere near the pavement.

It's always interesting to take a peep at the Statutory Signage relating to the Delivery Window here...they refer to a time frame of between 06.00 and 11.00 daily.

In other developed countries with functioning traffic and transport administrations,there would be a queue of vehicles there at 06.00.

However this being Ireland,the target will immediately be the 11.00,with the full knowledge that 11.00 can and will be streteched to 12.00 to facilitate those running a "wee bit late boss"

The daily situation in this area,is for few,if any deliveries (Other than large UK based multi-nationals whose drivers will be sitting idle until the shop-staff arrive around 08.00) will be attempted at 06.00 or anything like it.

The real rush begins around 09.30 and peaks c.10.30 as tempers fray between Whitevan Men,Ice Road Truckers,Brewery Draymen and inevitably the Taxi fraternity.

There is,however,a valid reason for at least some of this codology,and it was given at at least one meeting of DCC's Traffic Committee...

The almost total lack of public-transport to facilitate that 06.00 START,as in order to have the Stockrooms open to recieve the deliveries the Staff would need to be in place at 05.30...an impossibility for anybody broadly relying on Dublin Bus services.

I have made strong and repeated suggestions that Core Dublin Bus Services need to begin far earlier,with 24 Hr running along main corridors.

In general,my suggestions,have been recieved with incredulity and even,dismay by both colleagues and management alike.

With significant evidence now available of an upswing in Bus Passenger numbers,Dublin Bus needs to move quickly to respond,independently of NTA approval if necessary.

Allowing businesses to start earlier,in turn allows for a lessening of the Rish-Hour effect as everybody rushes to get in for that 08.00-09.00 target time and the return 16.00-17.00 window of an evening.

Either we ARE a functioning EU Capital City or we are not...we have,yet again,a choice to make.

We can continue to operate as a small scale town,which stirs lazily late and meanders aimlessly then for the rest of the day without any great purpose,"sure'n it'll be grand".....yet we are constantly reminded that This City is an EU Capital of come vibrancy and popularity...as long as it does'nt entail an 06.00 Start ! :rolleyes: