Pensions - Moving from the UK

Timfy

Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum...

My parents, who are both 70, are UK citizens. They are both on UK state pensions, my fathers being contributory as he always paid his stamp, my mother is on non-contributory.

They have recently purchased a home in Ireland and it will be their only residence as they are funding it by the sale of their UK house. They have no savings as such, just a few grand left from the house sale. Their reason for moving is to be nearer myself as they get older.

Does anyone know if I'd be right in saying that as Irish residents they would be able to avail of an Irish state pension? I believe that there is a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK with regards to benefits. When I moved to Ireland some years ago, I was on UK jobseekers allowance and that was transferred across to Irish jobseekers allowance for the time it took me to get work.

In a nutshell, does anyone have any experience with this type of situation as the governmental sites give somewhat conflicting information.

Thanks in advance......

doc11

Timfy wrote: »

Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum...

My parents, who are both 70, are UK citizens. They are both on UK state pensions, my fathers being contributory as he always paid his stamp, my mother is on non-contributory.

They have recently purchased a home in Ireland and it will be their only residence as they are funding it by the sale of their UK house. They have no savings as such, just a few grand left from the house sale. Their reason for moving is to be nearer myself as they get older.

Does anyone know if I'd be right in saying that as Irish residents they would be able to avail of an Irish state pension? I believe that there is a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK with regards to benefits. When I moved to Ireland some years ago, I was on UK jobseekers allowance and that was transferred across to Irish jobseekers allowance for the time it took me to get work.

In a nutshell, does anyone have any experience with this type of situation as the governmental sites give somewhat conflicting information.

Thanks in advance......

They'll get the non contributory irish pension of 220 each minus the uk contributory one

Timfy

Thanks for the reply Doc11,

When you say 220 minus the UK contributory, does that mean that the UK contributory one is still claimed?

mp22

Yes

eastbono

They will have to satisfy habitual residence in order to receive Non- con pension.

doc11

eastbono wrote: »

They will have to satisfy habitual residence in order to receive Non- con pension.

If they sold their UK home,were Irish nationals and moved to be closer to their family, it be hard for them to refuse under the habitual residence.But the optics aren't great that you can spend your life in one country and then move to claim higher benefits in another but that's just the way it is.

eastbono

In this instance they are UK Nationals and presumably have never worked in Ireland. They may find it difficult to be deemed habitually resident.

Cushie Butterfield

As regards satisfying the HRC here - it's quite possible that they wouldn't satisfy conditions straight away at least, but unfortunately there is no way of knowing until they actually apply, & they can't apply for top-ups on their UK pensions here until they have moved over. It may be the case that they will have to go through the application process more than once until such a time that they are deemed to be habitually resident. Certainly the very fact that you live & work here plus the fact that they have sold their UK property & bought one here should go some way to prove their long term intentions of remaining here. That, along with their age is a significant indication that Ireland would now be their main centre of interest.

I'm assuming that your father's UK state contributory pension can continue be paid to him by DWP when he moves to Ireland. I'm not sure about your mother's situation - if she's getting a non-contributory UK state pension in her own right (as in not linked to or dependant on your father's claim or his NI contributions) or whether she's getting a spouse's pension. I'm not familiar enough with the UK system plus I'm aware that there is a massive overhaul due to come into effect in 2016. Their current arrangements probably won't change (if they were still living in UK) under the new system considering their dates of birth, but it might be worth their while checking with DWP to see if their is an option for her to change her pension 'type' to one that's linked to your father's claim even if that means a reduced payment amount for her right now. I don't even know whether that is an option, but the aim would be that whatever she did get would be able to continue to be paid outside of the UK, as I'm assuming that like here a non-contributory state pension can't be paid to a person residing outside the state. She may be able to purchase some NI contributions in order to qualify her for a UK state contributory pension/partial one. It's worthwhile exploring all possible UK avenues first before going about the Irish side of things. .


My advice to them would be:
- Sever all residency ties with the UK - close bank accounts & any other interests there.
- Open joint bank account. I'm assuming they both have PPS numbers since time of house purchase.
- Exchange their UK driver's licences for Irish ones.
- If they are bringing a car over pay Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT), get new vehicle registration plates, get motor insurance, pay motor tax, NCT if required.
- Open all utility accounts in both their names.
- [highlight]*[/highlight]Register for local GP & dentist.
- Join local library & some local groups/societies (e.g. active retirement group, book club, bridge club etc).
- Add their names to the Electoral Register.
- Apply for a Drugs Payment Scheme card (criteria for eligibility is to be resident in Ireland or intend to be resident in Ireland for at least 12 months). They could get this more or less straight away before Medical Card application, which might involve a backlog.

[highlight]*[/highlight]If you are getting a social security pension from another EU/EEA country or Switzerland you may qualify for a medical card under EU Regulations if you are ordinarily resident in Ireland. You must not be subject to Irish social security legislation. This means that you must not be in receipt of a contributory Irish social welfare payment or be working in Ireland and be liable to pay PRSI. If you are living in Ireland and you are the dependant of a pensioner entitled under EU Regulations you may be eligible for a medical card. You must not be subject to Irish social security legislation (in the case of child dependants this rule applies to the spouse or person looking after them).

In other words your father should be entitled to a Medical Card under EU Regulations without being subject to a means test (which they would probably be within the guidelines for anyway if they were subject to one - but they would bypass the means test requirement), & your mother as his dependant should also be entitled to one. You can check the HSE website for further info on that or contact them HSE Primary Care Reimbursement Service, Tel: 01 864 7100 or 1890 252919.. Their local GP would have to sign the MC application form to accept them onto his/her panel. A person who has a UK social security pension does not need to obtain EU Form E121 but must provide proof that they are in receipt of such a pension when making application for a medical card.

All of the above suggestions aren't technically necessary especially the exchange of driver's licence & joining clubs but anything that goes to show that they intend staying here on a long term basis could prove useful in the event that they are required to submit extra or further 'evidence'.

After they have gathered a few months of bills/bank statements they could then apply for the Household Benefits Package, which isn't subject to the HRC criteria & isn't means tested for those over 70, which would lead to free travel, free tv licence, electricity or gas allowance (€35 per month) & a payment towards their (newly introduced) water charges (4 x €25 a year). I don't know if they get a winter fuel allowance as part of their UK pension or if it would still be payable once they move.

After they have all the above sorted out, & have lived here for at the very least six months (just my personal suggestion) they could then go about applying for the Irish State Non-Contributory Pension which would 'top up' their UK pensions to the Irish rate & see what transpires from there. At that stage they could also apply for a means tested winter fuel allowance if they don't get it from the UK.

I hope all goes well for them in their move & retirement here & that they don't run into any (or too many) problems satisfying the HRC. Please post back to let us know how the various stages are going & the final outcome as it would be of help to others in the same situation who may land on this thread from a search. It's such a grey area that basic accounts of individual experiences of the process are helpful.

Timfy

Wow! Thank you so much for the incredibly in depth responses.

It sounds like it could be a long and complicated road!

Apologies for the brevity of this response... I will call back in later to discuss properly!