Motor tax - just purchased - declaring off the road.... or not!

Geordie_Girl

Hope someone can help.
We just bought a car, took ownership on 17th Sept, our intention was to declare it off the road immediately for a little while.
We got the logbook back on 30th sept and returned the off road declaration immediately (website etc says you can't declare until you have the log book).

Got a phonecall from the tax office the next day to say too late, we'd missed their 10 day deadline for declaring off the road. We explained that we'd only just got the book and couldn't declare until we received that, as per their instructions. Their response was basically 'tough, we know lots of people are being caught out by the post, but that's the rule, tough'.

So now we've to tax the car, not just one month, but 3 months, because that's the minimum length of time you can tax a vehicle, and to tax it, we have to also insure it, again, it's not being used, it's on private property, it won't move an inch during this time, and it's not exactly an expensive car, so having it sit there uninsured wouldn't have been a concern to us.

To top it off, we checked the post mark on the envelope the logbook came back to us in (which unfortunately we no longer have, it was accidentally binned) and it wasn't even posted by them until AFTER 27th, so we never had a chance. It sat in their offices for over a week (assuming that when sent off on 17th, it arrived at least on 18th or 19th)!

Now, thanks to their mess this is going to cost us €800 in tax and insurance for the next 3 months of complete non-use and there's not a thing we can do about it apparently.

Can anyone PLEASE give me some advice, is there anything at all we can do? Furious doesn't even cover how I'm feeling.

partyatmygaff

If you don't mind an extra owner, you can transfer the ownership to a family member or close friend and declare it off the road.

That may not be an option if the car's fairly new however. Weigh it up and see if an extra owner (that can be easily explained to a potential buyer) will depreciate the car by €800. If it won't, then it's not such a bad idea.

Geordie_Girl

We can't, because we're still liable for the 2 weeks between 17th Sept and now (actually from the start of the month we took ownership), which means still paying 3 months minimum

irishgrover

not much advice but you could in theory contact Shannon to identify when they processed you log book.
Most functions that provide such a large volume of documentation who have some sort of IT system or manual controls in place to identify when a work item was processed.
If you write to them, and explain the situation they may at least be able to confirm that their processing times prevented you from being physically able to adhere to the requirements.
At that point you may be able to contact the tax office and see if they have an appeals process. If still nothing there, I would suggest going to the legal forum to see have they any suggestions. €800 is a lot of money to say goodbye to because you are expected to meet obligations that are appear to be non conformist tot he laws of physics etc.

Geordie_Girl

Thanks irishgrover, we'll try writing to them.

We have thought about legally challenging it, but then my husband thought that if we go that route we might end up being completely unable to tax the car until the end of any proceedings, which could well be a year or more, leaving us totally unable to use the car at all for far longer than we'd planned. I'm not sure if that's actually the case, but knowing the ability of the Irish system to screw things up intentionally, I'd imagine it might not be far off the mark.

Geordie_Girl

OSI wrote: »

You don't have to insure it.

Really? The woman from the tax office that phoned us told us they won't issue tax without the vehicle being insured.

ihateclowns11

Thats odd cause I bought a van about 4 months ago and two months later I figured I would mark it off the road because the van needed work before I could doe it. I went to the tax office in ballymun and they marked it off the road there and then. They even gave me an option as to wether I wanted 3 or 6 months. I chose 3 but because I sounded unsure the women said she'd give me 6 and if after 3 I needed it back on the road just go back to her anytime. The van was out of tax for over a year when I bought it. I suggest walking into tax office. Dont do it online or by post.

Geordie_Girl

As long as you got it sorted within 10 days of your name going on the book, ihateclowns, you'd have been grand. Any tax owed before that date is someone else's problem. Our problem is that the book was late, that and that alone is what's screwed everything up.

CiniO

Geordie_Girl wrote: »

We can't, because we're still liable for the 2 weeks between 17th Sept and now (actually from the start of the month we took ownership), which means still paying 3 months minimum

At the moment you are not liable for anything.
If you sell the car to someone else (f.e. you husband) then he can declare it off the road within 10 days. I'd go there withing 10 days of transaction, not waiting for logbook to arrive.

Geordie_Girl

How aren't we liable? We own it now and it's technically not off the road, so someone is liable, who?

If that's genuinely not the case then I'll be delighted, but I don't want to end up just getting a letter in a few months telling us we owe it in the end anyway.

CiniO

Geordie_Girl wrote: »

How aren't we liable? We own it now and it's technically not off the road, so someone is liable, who?

You bought the car so it's yours.
You didn't pay tax - but you have no obligation to do it.

If you don't use it, you should have declared it off the road, but by not declaring you are not making you liable for anything.
Only in the future if you go to tax your car, you will be liable for arrears of tax unpaid if car was undeclared.
But if you don't tax this car yourself, but instead sell it to anyone else, then you are not liable for anything.

If that's genuinely not the case then I'll be delighted, but I don't want to end up just getting a letter in a few months telling us we owe it in the end anyway.

You won't get a letter like that.
No one is going to ask you to pay the tax on your vehicle if you don't use it.
By not having declared it though, you make yourself liable for arrears if you tax vehicle in the future.
But if you don't decide to tax it ever again yourself (i.e. you sell it), then you are not liable for anything.

Chris_Heilong

Geordie_Girl wrote: »

How aren't we liable? We own it now and it's technically not off the road, so someone is liable, who?

If that's genuinely not the case then I'll be delighted, but I don't want to end up just getting a letter in a few months telling us we owe it in the end anyway.

if you sell it on any tax owed disappears, its just the system we have now.

Geordie_Girl

Thanks very much. We might just do that then. It's not a new car by a long shot (10yo), so an additional owner won't make a bit of difference.

Geordie_Girl

One thing husband isn't sure on, the arrears owed now on this car, if he goes in future to tax another car, will those arrears follow him? He's convinced they will. It's a tax bill of his, like any other, and will follow him until he pays it eventually.

corktina

It's a daft system but it is the case. When you are ready to put it on the road, transfer it to your partner and he taxes it from the first of the month of transfer.

The arrears totally disappear on transfer as it stands at present unless there is a change in the Law

Geordie_Girl

LOL let's hope for no law changes before we need to actually use it then, eh?

Thanks a lot for your help.

ihateclowns11

Geordie_Girl wrote: »

As long as you got it sorted within 10 days of your name going on the book, ihateclowns, you'd have been grand. Any tax owed before that date is someone else's problem. Our problem is that the book was late, that and that alone is what's screwed everything up.

I marked it off the road 2 months after it went into my name

Geordie_Girl

Fair enough. None of the stupid bloody system makes any sense LOL so I'm not going to try and figure it out.

slimjimmc

Geordie_Girl wrote: »

How aren't we liable? We own it now and it's technically not off the road, so someone is liable, who?

If that's genuinely not the case then I'll be delighted, but I don't want to end up just getting a letter in a few months telling us we owe it in the end anyway.

The owner is not liable for Motor Tax if the car is not actually used or parked in a public place; you only become liable once you put it on the road.
Failing to declare the car off the road just makes you liable for arrears but that liability is only due if or when you put the car on the road. If you transfer ownership that liability dies.

So, if you plan to keep the car off road for another month or more just do nothing until you want to put it back on. Then transfer ownership from your husband to yourself at the beginning of a month. The previous owner (husband) will no longer liable for any motor tax or arrears, and no liability will follow him. The new owner (you) will only liable for Motor Tax from the month you took ownership; you will also not be liable for previous arrears.