Consumer or Landlord issue with water rates

clint_silver

this is either a consumer or renting issue so please move if wrong place, I thought maybe just this side of consumer affairs.

I have a rental property Im renting to tenants. I got the water application pack out to my residential house last night for the rental property. I called them up and said surely it should be going to rental property, they said to forward it to the tenants, no problem.

Now, I asked a few questions and found out that if the tenant doesn't register, the landlord then becomes liable. They said if they dont register then I have to make the case to water.ie to prove not only am I not living there and someone else IS by providing the tenants details.

Now not only is it not my duty to make them register but I cant be giving their details to water.ie (I have their PPS numbers for tax). Even if its potentially making me liable by not giving them. All Im comfortable doing is telling water.ie that Im not living there. its up to them after that.

How to proceed if it comes to it?
If I give water.ie their details then it becomes a LL/tenant issue and a data protection issue.
If I dont give the details then it becomes a consumer issue as water.ie come after me for the money and then a landlord/tenant issue as I got after the tenant.
More then likely the tenants will register as theyre quite decent but just in case, wondering what peoples views are.

Cabaal

Seems like a pretty crappy situation for landlords, I've nothing to suggest unfortunately but its an unfair situation for landlords without a doubt

weisses

Not a straightforward issue indeed

Maybe register it in your name and add the charge to the rent.

tricky one

BarryD

Messy alright as far as I can see - we have a child in student rental accomm, sharing with four others. Landlord has said they should register. It seems that one of them must register their names and then pay a proportion of the annual charge etc. But they'll all likely be gone from the property next May/ June and may well move somewhere else. Reads to me like Irish Water are creating a large amount of paperwork wrt these situations. Much simpler for the property owner to register, pay the bill and recoup whatever is fair from the tenants.

delahuntv

BarryD wrote: »

Messy alright as far as I can see - we have a child in student rental accomm, sharing with four others. Landlord has said they should register. It seems that one of them must register their names and then pay a proportion of the annual charge etc. But they'll all likely be gone from the property next May/ June and may well move somewhere else. Reads to me like Irish Water are creating a large amount of paperwork wrt these situations. Much simpler for the property owner to register, pay the bill and recoup whatever is fair from the tenants.

They should register the same way as the other utilities are registered and when they leave get a final bill and transfer it.

from what Irish Water were saying on radio yesterday, the meter itself keeps a record of the readings each month, so even if the van doesn't drive by til 15th December, the reading will be from 1st October - so the tenants won't be running the risk of paying for the new tenants bills is new tenant move in, but they do benefit for the household allowance.

If the landlord has to register, (and that can be done) no allowance applies, so the option is there, but the tenant pays extra.

So the choice is for the tenant - register in their own name and get their free allowances or have landlord register, no allowance and water added to the rental payment. (quite clever and beneficial to the landlord)

clint_silver

The esb play it perfectly, every rented property is registered as such. Bill switches to tenant after LL rings up at start of rental agreement and final reading is given at handover. LL is responsible for everything inbetween which is fair enough.
Tried, trusted, very little dispute that Ive ever heard of and none that Ive experienced over the years. Why have water.ie adopted any other approach?

Gonna take this up with them.

davo10

OP, I have rental properties just like you. I received the same letter from IW with PIN numbers for each property. The tenant contracts all have a clause about tenants responsibilities to pay for utilities at the property including electricity, phone etc. water is a utility now so I informed them all that they are required to register and pay. If they don't, it comes off the deposit.

slimjimmc

I think this is more suited to Accommodation & Property.

delahuntv

clint_silver wrote: »

The esb play it perfectly, every rented property is registered as such. Bill switches to tenant after LL rings up at start of rental agreement and final reading is given at handover. LL is responsible for everything inbetween which is fair enough.
Tried, trusted, very little dispute that Ive ever heard of and none that Ive experienced over the years. Why have water.ie adopted any other approach?

Gonna take this up with them.

Because the ESB don't give a free allowance. Water charge would revert to landlord once a tenant moves out, the exact same way ESB do it. With electricity the tenant also has a choice to go with energia, bord gais or airtricity.

With water, every rented property is also listed with landlord name - and it reverts to landlord name and unoccupied charge when tenants move out and no new ones move in. - So not that much different to ESB. But if tenants want their free allowance, it for them to register.

Landlord can ring on tenats behlf once LL has permission. AFAIK ESB also ask for PPS number for ID for tenant.

So choice is TOTALLY for landlord.

a. Bill landlord only, don't get free allowance.
b - give tenant details without tenant pps number. Tenant must pay but doesn't get free allowance.
c - give tenant detail with pps number - tenant will get free allowance and tenat will pay
d - let tenant ring and give their details and choose themselves whether to give pps number for free allowance or not.

The choice is entirely up to you and your tenant.

jaykayphd

Just been speaking with Irish Water myself. Their computer systems have been down all day so they could tell me very little. His advice was to threaten any non-paying tenants with a deduction from their deposit. He said that IW is different to the ESB of Bord Gais as they cannot cut the water off to non-paying tenants.

Its crazy that IW want the landlords to be their debt collectors.

delahuntv

jaykayphd wrote: »

Its crazy that IW want the landlords to be their debt collectors.

where does it say they are debt collectors? If tenant use electricity and the electricity account is in the landlord's name, the landlord pays.

Same with IW - If it is not in tenants name, then the LL will pay. if it is in tenants name, LL won't be responsible for the bills unless tenant does a runner. But that's the whole idea of a deposit, so that the bills attached to the property are paid and LL isn't left to pay.

For your own sake you should ensure that all utility bills are closed off and paid in full before returning a deposit, not just because Irish water say so. - That's how I did it in UK when I rented out a house there and that was the normal procedure.

emeldc

delahuntv wrote: »

where does it say they are debt collectors? If tenant use electricity and the electricity account is in the landlord's name, the landlord pays.

Same with IW - If it is not in tenants name, then the LL will pay. if it is in tenants name, LL won't be responsible for the bills unless tenant does a runner. But that's the whole idea of a deposit, so that the bills attached to the property are paid and LL isn't left to pay.

For your own sake you should ensure that all utility bills are closed off and paid in full before returning a deposit, not just because Irish water say so. - That's how I did it in UK when I rented out a house there and that was the normal procedure.

The normal utility bills are nothing to do with the landlord. They are the tenants responsibility. End of.

shruikan2553

delahuntv wrote: »

where does it say they are debt collectors? If tenant use electricity and the electricity account is in the landlord's name, the landlord pays.

Same with IW - If it is not in tenants name, then the LL will pay. if it is in tenants name, LL won't be responsible for the bills unless tenant does a runner. But that's the whole idea of a deposit, so that the bills attached to the property are paid and LL isn't left to pay.

For your own sake you should ensure that all utility bills are closed off and paid in full before returning a deposit, not just because Irish water say so. - That's how I did it in UK when I rented out a house there and that was the normal procedure.

If the previous tenant doesn't pay their bill with electric Ireland it is owed by the tenant only. I can come along, rent a place set up my account and pay my bills. It is the same for phone bills. The person who's bill it is owes the money. To expect the LL to cover it is treating them like debt collectors. Its not their debt.

emeldc

davo10 wrote: »

OP, I have rental properties just like you. I received the same letter from IW with PIN numbers for each property. The tenant contracts all have a clause about tenants responsibilities to pay for utilities at the property including electricity, phone etc. water is a utility now so I informed them all that they are required to register and pay. If they don't, it comes off the deposit.

Stopping money out of the deposit to cover bills should really only be done as a last resort. What if the tenant stays for two years or more. With the deposit all but wiped out the tenant would have nothing to lose and leave the house in sh1t.

Irish water have known about this issue for long enough and refused to deal with it. I'm fcuked if I'm paying for my tenants water. I'm sending back the pack with the tenants name on it with a note attached that I don't speak Polish. I'll let IW ask him to sign it.

on_my_oe

jaykayphd wrote: »

Its crazy that IW want the landlords to be their debt collectors.

I'd agree, but I'd also say that it's crazy that Revenue want tenants to be their debt collectors; if your landlord lives abroad and you're paying your rent directly to the landlords account, you are supposed to deduct 20% tax and transfer it to Revenue on behalf of your landlord. If the tenant doesn't they're liable for the tax owing. In reality, try doing that and your landlord will quickly punish you with a higher rent and/or notice to quit.

I could argue in the case of water bills landlords have a deposit to make deductions out of, but I know that both sides play games with deposits either making unjust deductions or using it as the last months rent.

My solution, whack a €10,000 minimum fine on unregistered rentals with property confiscation on the third offence making it more encouraging to register tenancies, then let PRTB data share with Irish Water and Revenue. That way the landlord isn't breaching data and we can pick up non tac compliant landlords in one swoop.

davo10

on_my_oe wrote: »

I'd agree, but I'd also say that it's crazy that Revenue want tenants to be their debt collectors; if your landlord lives abroad and you're paying your rent directly to the landlords account, you are supposed to deduct 20% tax and transfer it to Revenue on behalf of your landlord. If the tenant doesn't they're liable for the tax owing. In reality, try doing that and your landlord will quickly punish you with a higher rent and/or notice to quit.

I could argue in the case of water bills landlords have a deposit to make deductions out of, but I know that both sides play games with deposits either making unjust deductions or using it as the last months rent.

My solution, whack a €10,000 minimum fine on unregistered rentals with property confiscation on the third offence making it more encouraging to register tenancies, then let PRTB data share with Irish Water and Revenue. That way the landlord isn't breaching data and we can pick up non tac compliant landlords in one swoop.

Wow, and all OP asked was who is responsible for the water charge. The tenant is as it's a utility.

davo10

emeldc wrote: »

Stopping money out of the deposit to cover bills should really only be done as a last resort. What if the tenant stays for two years or more. With the deposit all but wiped out the tenant would have nothing to lose and leave the house in sh1t.

Irish water have known about this issue for long enough and refused to deal with it. I'm fcuked if I'm paying for my tenants water. I'm sending back the pack with the tenants name on it with a note attached that I don't speak Polish. I'll let IW ask him to sign it.

If the tenant doesn't register, then bill comes to LL's home address as the registered owner of the rental property. After the first bill, the ll can take whatever action is allowed, if it's in the tenants name and they don't pay, well IW have their PPS number so they can take appropriate action.

clint_silver

davo10 wrote: »

If the tenant doesn't register, then bill comes to LL's home address as the registered owner of the rental property. After the first bill, the ll can take whatever action is allowed, if it's in the tenants name and they don't pay, well IW have their PPS number so they can take appropriate action.

How do IW get the tenants PPS? Only way is if I give it. I dont care what the bill is, I'm not giving it to them. Data protection etc.

Like the electricity, my one and only interaction is to tell ESB I do own the house but I dont live there. someone else lives there. send the bill to the property with that persons name on it. if they dont pay it, you can do what you like with the bill but you dont send it to me, I have no liability for it as I didnt use any of the electricity from date X to date Y while the tenant was in the house.

What IW are saying is that if the tenant doesnt pay, I have to pay for their usage. And that aint happening. Obviously in unchartered territory but you can be damn sure in the next 3-4 years we'll see a court case where the LL was pursued by IW for the tenants bill.

The deposit is a non-runner. theyre good tenants, if they dont want to pay their utility bills, thats completely up to them. not their fault IW will come after me.

This all said, Im only talking scenarios here, Im pretty sure they will register.

Mc Kenzie

Im a tenant living in a landlord house. however people come and go here all the time. and i hope to go in the next 6 months. I for one am not registering mt details. as I know from a build up of old post in the house already of previous tenants that, if I register my details even after I leave no one will bother to put there details in replace of mine. And it will be on my name for god only knows how long even i

Mc Kenzie

Im a tenant living in a landlord house. however people come and go here all the time. and i hope to go in the next 6 months. I for one am not registering mt details. as I know from a build up of old post in the house already of previous tenants that, if I register my details even after I leave no one will bother to put there details in replace of mine. And it will be on my name for god only knows how long even after I leave.

I feel water is a right and the government in this country are using this as another excuse to scrape out of my wage every month if they dont already take enough with nothing in return.

I must say in the U.K you pay a considerable amount of tax HOWEVER you actually get FREE health care. Free doctors. Free prescription medication.
Free family planning. You actually see where your moneys going.

Will we ever see where our money is going in this country ..??

clint_silver

Mc Kenzie wrote: »

Im a tenant living in a landlord house. however people come and go here all the time. and i hope to go in the next 6 months. I for one am not registering mt details. as I know from a build up of old post in the house already of previous tenants that, if I register my details even after I leave no one will bother to put there details in replace of mine. And it will be on my name for god only knows how long even i

As a matter of interest then how do you or the other tenants intend paying for the water? not for a second implying you wont, its completely your own business whether you do or not, but if you have agreed, what is that agreement?

Having really just found this out, I'll be making it a condition when renting out in future that the tenant DOES register or if they dont want to register, the contract will state I can give IW the PPS and details if they ask me for them. whether they want to pay or not after that is their own business but IW wont be coming after me for the renters bill once they know the PPs of the person in there.

clint_silver

Mc Kenzie wrote: »

Im a tenant living in a landlord house. however people come and go here all the time. and i hope to go in the next 6 months. I for one am not registering mt details. as I know from a build up of old post in the house already of previous tenants that, if I register my details even after I leave no one will bother to put there details in replace of mine. And it will be on my name for god only knows how long even after I leave.

I feel water is a right and the government in this country are using this as another excuse to scrape out of my wage every month if they dont already take enough with nothing in return.

I must say in the U.K you pay a considerable amount of tax HOWEVER you actually get FREE health care. Free doctors. Free prescription medication.
Free family planning. You actually see where your moneys going.

Will we ever see where our money is going in this country ..??

you dont get free water though. Average bill is 550 a year over there (read that last week). Irish water are getting the money from the charge here, not the govt. -edited for clarity

as for the money you pay here in taxes? You can look up the dept of finance website and its there somewhere where all the money goes.

emeldc

Mc Kenzie wrote: »

Im a tenant living in a landlord house. however people come and go here all the time. and i hope to go in the next 6 months. I for one am not registering mt details. as I know from a build up of old post in the house already of previous tenants that, if I register my details even after I leave no one will bother to put there details in replace of mine. And it will be on my name for god only knows how long even after I leave.

I feel water is a right and the government in this country are using this as another excuse to scrape out of my wage every month if they dont already take enough with nothing in return.

I must say in the U.K you pay a considerable amount of tax HOWEVER you actually get FREE health care. Free doctors. Free prescription medication.
Free family planning. You actually see where your moneys going.

Will we ever see where our money is going in this country ..??

But when you leave, you just tell IW that you are moving out, just like you would with the ESB or Bord Gais, or do you intend not paying them either.

Gatling

clint_silver wrote: »

As a matter of interest then how do you or the other tenants intend paying for the water? not for a second implying you wont, its completely your own business whether you do or not, but if you have agreed, what is that agreement?

Having really just found this out, I'll be making it a condition when renting out in future that the tenant DOES register or if they dont want to register, the contract will state I can give IW the PPS and details if they ask me for them. whether they want to pay or not after that is their own business but IW wont be coming after me for the renters bill once they know the PPs of the person in there.

Will data protection and the PTRB allow you to pass on someone's pps numbers

davo10

clint_silver wrote: »

How do IW get the tenants PPS? Only way is if I give it. I dont care what the bill is, I'm not giving it to them. Data protection etc.

Read the post again. "If it's in the tenants name" ie the tenant registers and gives their own PPS, and then doesn't pay ........

Gatling

davo10 wrote: »

Read the post again. "If it's in the tenants name" ie the tenant registers and gives their own PPS, and then doesn't pay ........

That's there personal and private decisions to make

clint_silver

Gatling wrote: »

That's there personal and private decisions to make

yes, what Im proposing is that when tenants sign rental contract that there be a clause that allows me to give IW their PPS/details if they (the tenants) decide not to register. If they dont register and dont sign that contract then I cant give IW their details and Im then liable for their water charge but they then also dont get to move in.

They can still not pay, but IW now have confirmed details of the tenant that is there so Im in the clear. thats my understanding of it.

davo10

Gatling wrote: »

That's there personal and private decisions to make

Of course, and by registering the debt follows them and not the ll just like an electricity bill. Like an electricity sign up, soon enough a deposit will have to be paid to IW by tenants.

Gatling

clint_silver wrote: »

yes, what Im proposing is that when tenants sign rental contract that there be a clause that allows me to give IW their PPS/details if they (the tenants) decide not to register. If they dont register and dont sign that contract then I cant give IW their details and Im then liable for their water charge but they then also dont get to move in.

They can still not pay, but IW now have confirmed details of the tenant that is there so Im in the clear. thats my understanding of it.

You cannot do that under any law concerning data protection and privacy

Its already been stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying
,

At this rate you could possibly end up with several costly legal actions

Marcusm

Cabaal wrote: »

Seems like a pretty crappy situation for landlords, I've nothing to suggest unfortunately but its an unfair situation for landlords without a doubt

HArdly that difficult a situation, provide the details of the registered tenant to Irish Water. The pack will then be issued in their name and they will have to deal with it. Anything else is plainly silly.

Marcusm

clint_silver wrote: »

How do IW get the tenants PPS? Only way is if I give it. I dont care what the bill is, I'm not giving it to them. Data protection etc.

Why would you have a data protection issue? A data controller must collect and use information 9(including its disclosure) in accordance with the purpose for which it is collected. You have collected the data in connection witht he letting of the property and you would be disclosing that data in a manner consistent with your responsibilities. I've had landlords provide my details to electricity and gas suppliers in the past; why do you think this is different? Mountain out of molehill.

Gatling

Marcusm wrote: »

Why would you have a data protection issue? A data controller must collect and use information 9(including its disclosure) in accordance with the purpose for which it is collected. You have collected the data in connection witht he letting of the property and you would be disclosing that data in a manner consistent with your responsibilities. I've had landlords provide my details to electricity and gas suppliers in the past; why do you think this is different? Mountain out of molehill.

Sorry no no landlord has the right to disclose a pps number or a families pps numbers to a utility company ,

Marcusm

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry no no landlord has the right to disclose a pps number or a families pps numbers to a utility company ,

A landlord has a duty to process information only for the purpose for which it is collected, in this case the operation of the rental property and associated issues, ie he cannot sell it or randomly scatter it around. Irish Water, in contrast to other utilities, is permitted under Social Welfare regulations to utilise PPS numbers in its operations. On this basis, I doubt that any issue would arise and certainly I would argue that the data controller (the landlord) has a defence to any argument that the PPS number could be disclosed. In any event, it is irrelevant, simply disclosing the name of the registered tenant will allow Irish Water to make contact and it can seek to collect the PPS number directly.

emeldc

Marcusm wrote: »

A landlord has a duty to process information only for the purpose for which it is collected, in this case the operation of the rental property and associated issues, ie he cannot sell it or randomly scatter it around. Irish Water, in contrast to other utilities, is permitted under Social Welfare regulations to utilise PPS numbers in its operations. On this basis, I doubt that any issue would arise and certainly I would argue that the data controller (the landlord) has a defence to any argument that the PPS number could be disclosed. In any event, it is irrelevant, simply disclosing the name of the registered tenant will allow Irish Water to make contact and it can seek to collect the PPS number directly.

What you say sounds correct to me, yet Airtricity refuse to deal with LL's when registering or de registering tenants stating data protections rules. Strangely enough ESB or B/Gas have no problem with it.

delahuntv

I had a chat with IW yestserday and asked them just so that I can be certain.

Advice is that you get the tenant to register the same way they register with other utilities.

Where the tenant registers and give pps number, the tenant will get their allowance and will be responsible for the bill. If the tenant moves out and there is a balance, IW will make efforts to ensure the tenant pays. If the tenant does not pay it is NOT transferred to the LL.

However is the tenant does NOT register, then the LL is responsible.

The EXACT same as ESB or gas. If you allow your tenant to live without registering for ESB, Gas, Water, then you are responsible in all cases.

If you get the tenant to register for ESB, Gas & water, the tenant assumes full responsibility.

The LL can register the tenant, but as LL may not have or have permission to give pps number, then tenant will not have the allowances - therefore it is up to the tenant to register in order to minimise their bill.

If you have a good tenant, you won't have an issue, if you have a bad tenant, then a water bill is probably the least of your worries.

Probably best to have a clause in the agreement that LL can provide pps numbers to utility services. BTW - currently IW will not be asking for deposit from tenants (unlike ESB, Bord Gas, Airtricity or energia) or insisting on DD payments in lieu of deposit.

emeldc

delahuntv wrote: »

I had a chat with IW yestserday and asked them just so that I can be certain.

Advice is that you get the tenant to register the same way they register with other utilities.

Where the tenant registers and give pps number, the tenant will get their allowance and will be responsible for the bill. If the tenant moves out and there is a balance, IW will make efforts to ensure the tenant pays. If the tenant does not pay it is NOT transferred to the LL.

However is the tenant does NOT register, then the LL is responsible.

The EXACT same as ESB or gas. If you allow your tenant to live without registering for ESB, Gas, Water, then you are responsible in all cases.

If you get the tenant to register for ESB, Gas & water, the tenant assumes full responsibility.

The LL can register the tenant, but as LL may not have or have permission to give pps number, then tenant will not have the allowances - therefore it is up to the tenant to register in order to minimise their bill.

If you have a good tenant, you won't have an issue, if you have a bad tenant, then a water bill is probably the least of your worries.

Probably best to have a clause in the agreement that LL can provide pps numbers to utility services. BTW - currently IW will not be asking for deposit from tenants (unlike ESB, Bord Gas, Airtricity or energia) or insisting on DD payments in lieu of deposit.

Im sorry but they are wrong in that respect. I can deregister myself from my property with a final reading. If the new tenant doesn't register they'll be cut off. ESB or Gas can't chase the landlord because there is no contract.

Gatling

Odd they publicly stated that landlords won't be held responsible for non payments from tenants ,

Still under any circumstances will i allow my landlord to give my or my kids pps numbers to a utility company that i didn't ask for

UCDVet

Similar question, but from the opposite perspective: Does anyone know who is liable for the water charges in the case of a broken/leaking pipe/dripping sink/running toilet in the case of a landlord/tenant?

For example - I rent. I don't own the apartment, nor the sink/toilet/facets/pipes in the wall. I register with IW, so I'm meant to pay the water bill. Let's say I come home from work and realize the toilet that was flushed at 7am never stopped refilling with water, because it is defective in some way. Now, I'd call up the landlord and he'd be obliged to fix it. Based on past experiences this would probably take 2-3 weeks. Assume that I don't have a shut-off value for the toilet, so short of turning off all of the water to the apartment, I can't reasonably do anything.

Under this new Irish Water scheme - who is liable for the water wasted? The amount could be quite significant - but it would be pretty impossible for me to measure how much water. When I register with IW, as a tenant, am I taking full responsibility for all water that goes through the meter?

A gas leak is quite serious and exceptionally rare. I've seen on the tele a phone number to call 24/7 and they'll fix it. Presumably, I'd do that, and problem solved.
An appliance that caused a problem - well, I'd just unplug it. If my washing machine wouldn't stop washing, I'd unplug it and no more wasted electricity.

But with a water problem, it seems like my hands are tied with regards to fixing the problem - since the landlord is meant to do it and I can't disconnect individual things from the water line....but I have to pay for the water.

delahuntv

emeldc wrote: »

Im sorry but they are wrong in that respect. I can deregister myself from my property with a final reading. If the new tenant doesn't register they'll be cut off. ESB or Gas can't chase the landlord because there is no contract.

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

Gatling

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

So people who don't sign up to IW are bad tenants really .

emeldc

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

WTF are you talking about. Why would I take any responsibility for my tenants utility bills. They would never pay for anything ffs. I think you're just winding me up now.
And by the way i have great tenants but maybe they wont sign up as a form of protest, who knows.

shruikan2553

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

You can for nearly every other bills the tenant might have.

Gatling

Maybe landlords should encourage us tenants to sign up to services of there choices or else

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

You cannot do that under any law concerning data protection and privacy

Its already been stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying
,

At this rate you could possibly end up with several costly legal actions

Where exactly was it stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying ?
The letter I recieved seems to me to state if the tenant dies not pay then I will have to pay for them.

Gatling

Big Davey wrote: »

Where exactly was it stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying ?
The letter I recieved seems to me to state if the tenant dies not pay then I will have to pay for them.

IW stated it several times already including on 2 tv programs

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

IW stated it several times already including on 2 tv programs

Ok I have not seen it but I will take your word for it it's good news for me. What in your opinion would be the best tactic for a landlord to take ? Ignore letters from IW ? I will not give my Tenants PPS numbers as that would be illegal. And am not interested in bullying or trying to get my tenants to sign up to something that has nothing to do with me.

Gatling

Big Davey wrote: »

Ok I have not seen it but I will take your word for it it's good news for me. What in your opinion would be the best tactic for a landlord to take ? Ignore letters from IW ? I will not give my Tenants PPS numbers as that would be illegal. And am not interested in bullying or trying to get my tenants to sign up to something that has nothing to do with me.

My landlord is ignoring it he's 4 apartments and his one so that's 5 he's supposed to hand over details on,
all rented to families he won't hand over pps to them .
My gripe is lack of information in how we're going to be billed .

I've his landlord pack along with ours sitting in a drawer .

Some landlords are saying they will force tenants to sign new leases or be evicted if tenants don't hand over pps numbers which is wrong .

Other's are saying the PTRB will hand over the pps numbers to IW can't see that happening either .

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

My landlord is ignoring it he's 4 apartments and his one so that's 5 he's supposed to hand over details on,
all rented to families he won't hand over pps to them .
My gripe is lack of information in how we're going to be billed .

I've his landlord pack along with ours sitting in a drawer .

Some landlords are saying they will force tenants to sign new leases or be evicted if tenants don't hand over pps numbers which is wrong .

Other's are saying the PTRB will hand over the pps numbers to IW can't see that happening either .

I agree with everything you have said. IW can take it up with the people using the water not me just like gas or electricity etc then can turn the water down or off I read somewhere I think.
I won't be threatening anybody with eviction and certainly won't be giving PPS numbers out.
I don't technically own the property till my final payment to the bank so IW can take it up with the bank or the tenants things are hard enough for landlords nowadays with non paying tenants and the lack of any real support by courts or the system in general.