Cleverly v Bellew II PPV # MOD NOTE SEE FIRST POST

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

Cleverly v Bellew II will be shown live and exclusive on Sky Sports Box Office
Joshua, Quigg, McDonnell and Callum Smith also star.

MOD WARNING: As much as some people are unhappy about this event broadcasting as PPV, it's against the rules of this site
to be posting links of illegal streams. As such, anyone posting or asking for streams for this fight will be reprimanded and banned.




Ppv what a joke, dear lord two battered lightheavy weights pumping weights for 6 months to try and become cruiserweights, and we are expected to pay 20e to watch this crap,on top of 70e a month, I'm on the brink of getting rid of sky, watch the hype job sky do on this sickening,

Frankie Lee

Cleverly Bellew PPV, surely one of the lowest quality match ups Sky has put on box office.

unknown13

That will hurt Eddie big time. First that PPV will flop and second the Dublin show the week before wont do well because the undercard will be very weak due to his bigger name fighters fighting in Liverpool.

FTA69

Sky are obviously having a Stefi Graf here. I like watching both boxers, but I would in my hoop fork out twenty sheets for this. And what's the card? Joshua knocking over some Lithuanian lad in the second round? B*llocks to that.

Henno30

PPV

Good luck with that.

Henno30

FTA69 wrote: »

Sky are obviously having a Stefi Graf here. I like watching both boxers, but I would in my hoop fork out twenty sheets for this. And what's the card? Joshua knocking over some Lithuanian lad in the second round? B*llocks to that.

It's Hearn, not Sky. The networks don't want PPVs, it's the promoters and the fighters that look for them.

Completely insane in this case and obviously Hearn has leveraged Sky into approving it using Froch and Brook. It's one of the worst PPV match-ups I can remember.

Deiseboy01

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Cleverly Bellew PPV, surely one of the lowest quality match ups Sky has put on box office.

Couldn't agree more, was thinking the same today when I saw it advertised on Sky. One sure thing, I won't be paying for it.

Domestic british level fight in an unfashionable division, Sky have had much better free view cards.

Chrissybhoy

This really is a joke surely the PPV numbers will be poor.

walshb

It could well be a stormer of a fight, but so could so many other 'nobodies' fighting.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

It could well be a stormer of a fight, but so could so many other 'nobodies' fighting.

I'm sure it will be but I'm f*cked if I'm paying twenty snots to see it. You'd see Mayweather for that price sure, or even cheaper if he's on Boxnation.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm sure it will be but I'm f*cked if I'm paying twenty snots to see it. You'd see Mayweather for that price sure, or even cheaper if he's on Boxnation.

And his last fight was one of the most boring ever. But, he is a global name. These lads in comparison are local names. Ridiculous!

rebelomar

Loving God...Can't believe they have the gall to call this ppv worthy.

If it was the chief support to say a Froch v DeGale level fight it would be serious value but as a main event...very underwhelming.

There's not even a world tile eliminator angle is there?

walshb

It's the first PPV event that I am confident I won't fall for. Others I caved in for.

kryogen

There is absolutely no danger of me panic ordering this at the last minute anyway, awful idea to have it as a ppv. The numbers are going to be embarrassing from a pr point of view

Big Ears

It's certainly the weakest Sky ppv in a long time, probably since Groves vs Degale (2 very good fighters but they were very much novices at the time).
I think to some extent they will try and sell this a little like Frank Warren sold the magnificent 7, which despite a real marquee fight was a tremendous card.

But that was 7 very interesting match ups with some real decent tests for the home fighters and 2 of Warren's boys lost as a result.
This card on the otherhand currently has:
Bellew vs Cleverly-ya good fight, could go either way

Scott Quigg vs TBA-It's not gonna be Frampton/LSC or Rigodeaux so unless it's Galahad (unlikely imo) then it'll be another easy opponent and likely another blown up Bantam. for WBA title, but not the main one.

Callum Smith vs Nikola Sjekloca-Big step up in class for Smith, but he's passed every test with flying colours so far. Think it's meant to be a WBC title eliminator, Sjekloca is more European level than World (or even fringe World), but this fight is somewhat interesting.

Jamie McDonnell vs Walberto Ramas, WBA Bantamweight title (but again not the real one), Ramos is a blown up Flyweight and McDonnell should grind him down for a mid rounds stoppage.

Anthony Joshua vs Michaell Sprott-Sprott is shot and this will be a 1 or 2 round job imo. Some might say he's the biggest test of Joshua's career so far and tey'd probably be right, but Joshua fights Bakhtov next week and at this stage of their respective careers Bakhtav is quite a bit better, although unfortunately a midget at Heavyweight.

Then we've got Degale vs TBA- no idea what level of fight they're looking for here. Degale is IBF mandatory so I can't imagine they want a big name or hard fight, just a stay busy kind.

Stephen Smith vs TBA, Smith's got some good rankings and possibly in with a shout of either an IBF or WBC eliminator if they push for one. No idea if they'll do that here though or look for an easier fight for the moment.

SO the quality of the card mainly rests on the quality of the TBA's, I'm not expecting much but if we saw Quigg vs Galahad, Degale vs Bika/Oosthuizen/Gilberto Ramirez and
Stephen Smith vs Sergio Thompson/Miguel Roman.

So:
Bellew vs Cleverly
Quigg vs Galahad
Degale vs Bika
C.Smith vs Sjekloca
S.Smith vs Thompson
McDonnell vs Ramos
Joshua vs Sprott

That's a ppv worthy card.....but what we'll get will look nothing like that. It'll probably be worse than we expect, Sky will hype up the whole card to be amazing, and the main event to be the fight of the century, a real 'grudge' match which will be a war. What's worse is I think they'll manage to sell well off the back of the last few succesful ppv's. But if the main event doesn't turn out to be a barnstorming spectacle like Froch vs Groves I & II they'll be in trouble, cause the next ppv will sell like ****.

Pighead

I'm going against the grain here by thinking this will do decent pay per view numbers. I'm actualy looking forward to it. Two equally matched boxers who seem to genuinely have a dislike for each other. Bellew is hilarious has a good following and despite his limitations can hit hard. Think people will pay for this one. This match up will be more exciting than the last few Mayweather snoozefests.

Big Ears

As I said above I actually think this will sell very well too, but the probably is if the main event doesn't deliver, and Bellew is notorious for talking a good game but not delivering, then the following ppv's will likley do very badly regardless of quality.

Last few Mayweather snoozefests ?, Maidana vs Mayweather I was a cracker, arguably the most exciting Mayweather fight since Castillo II.

walshb

kryogen wrote: »

There is absolutely no danger of me panic ordering this at the last minute anyway, awful idea to have it as a ppv. The numbers are going to be embarrassing from a pr point of view

This, and me. That's two usual suckers who won't be suckered:D

I don't see it doing great compared to other cards.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

So:
Bellew vs Cleverly
Quigg vs Galahad
Degale vs Bika
C.Smith vs Sjekloca
S.Smith vs Thompson
McDonnell vs Ramos
Joshua vs Sprott

That's a ppv worthy card.....*.

How is that worthy of PPV? They are all British level/fringe world level fighters. None of them have scaled any mountains to justify a PPV billing.

barney4001

supersean1999 wrote: »

Ppv what a joke, dear lord two battered lightheavy weights pumping weights for 6 months to try and become cruiserweights, and we are expected to pay 20e to watch this crap,on top of 70e a month, I'm on the brink of getting rid of sky, watch the hype job sky do on this sickening,

I see them on wiziwigs for free madness to pay for sky when u get it free

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

This, and me. That's two usual suckers who won't be suckered:D

And me makes three.

magma69

This crap is what's driving people towards internet streaming. When domestic two guys who were hammered at world level are deemed worthy to headline a ppv card, there's something wrong. Where does this leave Sky subscriber boxing fans? What exactly are they subscribing for every month when anything slightly better than utter dross is PPV?

Chrissybhoy

Pighead wrote: »

I'm going against the grain here by thinking this will do decent pay per view numbers. I'm actualy looking forward to it. Two equally matched boxers who seem to genuinely have a dislike for each other. Bellew is hilarious has a good following and despite his limitations can hit hard. Think people will pay for this one. This match up will be more exciting than the last few Mayweather snoozefests.

To be fair when you pay to see mayweather. Your looking at a world class boxer. Bellew and Cleverly are not just because it has the potential to be entertaining shouldn't be PPV IMO

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

How is that worthy of PPV? They are all British level/fringe world level fighters. None of them have scaled any mountains to justify a PPV billing.

I'll grant you there's no major, massive fight to sell it, but there's 5 (arguably 6) fights that would headline a normal Sky show. Also British/Fringe World level fighters is a bit of an understatement for some. Quigg & McDonnell hold the WBA (regular) belt, Bika was WBC champ till 7 weeks ago, Degale is IBF mandatory, Cleverly was WBO champ at the weight below, Bellew took him to a MD for that belt, Thompson lost a narrow decision for the WBC title last year, so I'd argue it's much more World/fringe World, with very little British level involved at all.

Quigg (Ring #3, World class) vs Galahad (Ring #9, fringe World)
Degale (Ring #6, probably World level) vs Bika (former WBC, fringe World)
Smith (European/Fringe World) vs Sergio Thompson (Ring #8, World level)
McDonnell (Ring #8, World class) vs Ramos (equivalent to British level)
Callum Smith (potential World level prospect) vs Sjekloca (European level)
Bellew (European/Fringe World) vs Cleverly (European/Fringe World)
Joshua (potential World level prospect) vs Sprott (English title level)

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

I'll grant you there's no major, massive fight to sell it, but there's 5 (arguably 6) fights that would headline a normal Sky show. Also British/Fringe World level fighters is a bit of an understatement for some. Quigg & McDonnell hold the WBA (regular) belt, Bika was WBC champ till 7 weeks ago, Degale is IBF mandatory, Cleverly was WBO champ at the weight below, Bellew took him to a MD for that belt, Thompson lost a narrow decision for the WBC title last year, so I'd argue it's much more World/fringe World, with very little British level involved at all.

Quigg (Ring #3, World class) vs Galahad (Ring #9, fringe World)
Degale (Ring #6, probably World level) vs Bika (former WBC, fringe World)
Smith (European/Fringe World) vs Sergio Thompson (Ring #8, World level)
McDonnell (Ring #8, World class) vs Ramos (equivalent to British level)
Callum Smith (potential World level prospect) vs Sjekloca (European level)
Bellew (European/Fringe World) vs Cleverly (European/Fringe World)
Joshua (potential World level prospect) vs Sprott (English title level)

That is it with boxing, sometimes ratings and bets mean feck all. This is a prime example. Scott Quigg on a PPV card? You couldn't make it up. Granted, he is not the headline name(s), but look who is? Like I said, NONE of them have done anything in their careers to have a PPV justification. Not even close.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

And me makes three.

I sense a boxing boards boycott. Join in guys.....Maybe Sky will think hard about trying to pull this sh!t in the future.

JacksonHeightsOwn

why do people think Scott Quigg is fighting Kid Galahad all of a sudden? He's scheduled to fight Joseph Agbeko

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

That is it with boxing, sometimes ratings and bets mean feck all. This is a prime example. Scott Quigg on a PPV card? You couldn't make it up. Granted, he is not the headline name(s), but look who is? Like I said, NONE of them have done anything in their careers to have a PPV justification. Not even close.

Ratings and especially belts are certainly not the be all and end all. Quigg vs Frampton is a genuine ppv fight imo, so I don't think it's that ridiculous to think of him in a ppv fight.

I agree with you that none of the fighter on their own deserve ppv, but my point was that sometimes ppv is not about one fight (about 0.0000001% of the time, seeing as ppv cards are almost always ****). The Magnificent 7 (http://boxrec.com/show_display.php?show_id=603040) had even less star power about it, but tbh I had no problem with that as ppv, it had loads of good quality competitive fights that could only be funded by ppv and it turned out to be a cracker of a card. So much so Warren tried to replicate it a few times (unsuccesfully).
The card I hypothesized as being ppv worthy is imo deserving for similar reasons. It is worth €20 to see 6/7 fights that each would normally headline a Sky show (and keep in mind Sky only have a show every 3rd week these days) in their own right.

Are any of the fighters worthy of a ppv fight on their own ?, not a chance. Quigg could do one with Frampton and Degale with Froch and their both the B side in those fights, but when you throw so many good fights into one card as opposed to one big main event it's worth the value for me.
However I don't support this ppv because we won't get the card I put up, we'll get a much ****ter card, and I personally won't be buying it either.

chrisbonnie wrote: »

why do people think Scott Quigg is fighting Kid Galahad all of a sudden? He's scheduled to fight Joseph Agbeko

who thinks Quigg is fighting Galahad ?, I'm the only one in the thread to even mention those two together and I certainly don't think it'll happen.
That Agbeko fight isn't made yet either btw, but seeing as he's a former Bantamweight and has little will to win these days he'd make a typical Quigg opponent, so I'd say they will get it done.

DuckHook

walshb wrote: »

I sense a boxing boards boycott. Join in guys.....Maybe Sky will think hard about trying to pull this sh!t in the future.

Count me in, joke of a Ppv and sky are getting worse.

supersean1999

Quigg is been protected ,

unknown13

Quigg / Galahad is not happening on this card. Hearn has said it will happen eventually as long as Quigg is champ but until Galahad makes a few more defenses then he will get the fight.

I would prefer Quigg fighting Kiko, at least Kiko will bring it and would give him a tough fight for once.

walshb

unknown13 wrote: »

Quigg / Galahad is not happening on this card. Hearn has said it will happen eventually as long as Quigg is champ but until Galahad makes a few more defenses then he will get the fight.

I would prefer Quigg fighting Kiko, at least Kiko will bring it and would give him a tough fight for once.

Don't expect Quigg to fight anyone with a pulse for quite a while.

JacksonHeightsOwn

walshb wrote: »

Don't expect Quigg to fight anyone with a pulse for quite a while.

So you're not a fan of TBA then

walshb

chrisbonnie wrote: »

So you're not a fan of TBA then

TBA usually means tomato can!:pac:

unknown13

pac_man wrote: »

I think there in talks with Agbeko which is arguably Quiggs toughest test.

Toughest test yes but Agbeko has only fought once at Super Bantam and that was Rigo. He is another bantam for the list, which Quigg has fought.

Anyone know what Agbeko's power is like?

supersean1999

Posted in the other thread, quigg has turned down 400k to fight Galahad, now I'm sure it's Hearn that's protecting him, I'm sure quigg would fight most fighters as he prob has confidence in himself, but Hearn will wrap him up as much he can, as seen by the poor level of fighters he has fought ,it's on espn, released by Hennessy sports

Big Ears

So word going round is that George Groves is to be on this card aswell. Not really that interesting imo unless they get him someone half decent, which is unlikely with 4 weeks to go.

Scott Quigg's opponent has been announced as Hidenori Otake. An okay opponent on paper, but I've watched a couple of clips of him and I'm not impressed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2C6fOuyhyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2C6fOuyhyc

Okay they're only short clips, and they are from 3 years ago and 4 years ago, so perhaps he's developed somewhat since, it would be best to look at him during his Japanese title fights. But tbh, I just see another Quigg ko 2/3 here.

So currently the card is:

Cleverly vs Bellew
Degale vs Periban
Quigg vs Otake WBA Regular Super-Bantamweight title
Smith vs Sjeckloca WBC Super-Middleweight title Eliminator
McDonnell vs Ramos-WBA Regular Bantamweight title
Joshua vs Sprott- British Heavyweight title Eliminator
Smith vs ?
Groves ? vs ?

Frankie Lee

Big Ears wrote: »

Scott Quigg's opponent has been announced as Hidenori Otake. An okay opponent on paper, but I've watched a couple of clips of him and I'm not impressed.


Okay they're only short clips, and they are from 3 years ago and 4 years ago, so perhaps he's developed somewhat since, it would be best to look at him during his Japanese title fights. But tbh, I just see another Quigg ko 2/3 here.

Incredible that at 33 and after 22 fights it will be his first time to fight in a venue other than Korakuen Hall. Matchroom can find them.

HigginsJ

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Incredible that at 33 and after 22 fights it will be his first time to fight in a venue other than Korakuen Hall. Matchroom can find them.

He is also somehow ranked #3 by the IBF & #11 by the WBO which tells you how ridiculous these rankings are sometimes. Protect yourself, get a nice padded record, get a nice fight.

walshb

And If he is any use he'll beat the World Champion, Quigg!

Big Ears

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Incredible that at 33 and after 22 fights it will be his first time to fight in a venue other than Korakuen Hall. Matchroom can find them.

While it does seem pretty incredible that he's fought all his fights at the same venue, you have to put things into context. The Korakuen Hall is like what the York Hall is to London or the National Stadium is to Dublin x10.
More than half of the total fights in Japan take place there, and a quick boxrec check tells me that of the 82 fight cards that have taken place in Tokyo this year so far, 78 have been at the Korakuen Hall.
For instance Otake's last opponent has also had all of his fights at the Korakuen Hall, but both are from Tokyo, so that's not too surprising.

HigginsJ wrote: »

He is also somehow ranked #3 by the IBF & #11 by the WBO which tells you how ridiculous these rankings are sometimes. Protect yourself, get a nice padded record, get a nice fight.

To be honest, from watching him fight he certainly isn't deserving of those rankings, but it must be remembered that he's a Japanese title holder, who's just made 4 defences of his title. The Japanese belt is normally the strongest domestic belt in the World from Minimumweight up to Super-Featherweight.
The vacant title fight to replace Otake's place as Japanese champion is between Yukinori Oguni (who's a former Continental champion with good defences of that belt) and Yatsutaka Ishimoto (who's beaten Wilfredo Vasquez jnr and just fought an IBF eliminator vs Avalos). They're domestic scene is high, high level and it just so happens that Otake got his chance during a brief weak period, and took his chance winning close decisions over some average enough fighters.
But ordinarily I wouldn't have an issue with a fighter receiving high World rankings off of making 4 consecutive Japanese title defences in a low weight class.

walshb wrote: »

And If he is any use he'll beat the World Champion, Quigg!

He's a decent domestic level fighter, which means Quigg destroys him.
Quigg obviously isn't a proper World champion (who is these days), but your comment seems to suggest he isn't much use. I know his opposition hasn't been inspiring, but lately he has demolished what's been put in front of him in the sort of fashion you'd expect a World Class fighter to. Personally I think Quigg is an excellent fighter.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

He's a decent domestic level fighter, which means Quigg destroys him.
Quigg obviously isn't a proper World champion (who is these days), but your comment seems to suggest he isn't much use. I know his opposition hasn't been inspiring, but lately he has demolished what's been put in front of him in the sort of fashion you'd expect a World Class fighter to. Personally I think Quigg is an excellent fighter.

I will call him excellent when he proves it. He's fought nobody! Getting seriously fed up with this 122 lbs ducking division.

The only one who doesn't seem bothered about fighting is Kiko. I reckon Kiko would fight all the best in the same day given the chance.

Maybe I need to be a little more patient.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

I will call him excellent when he proves it. He's fought nobody! Getting seriously fed up with this 122 lbs ducking division.

The only one who doesn't seem bothered about fighting is Kiko. I reckon Kiko would fight all the best in the same day given the chance.

Maybe I need to be a little more patient.

Fair comment, but to give him his credit he's dealt with those *nobodies in quite an impressive manner. That in itself does not show him as an excellent fighter, but if he had struggled in his last 3 fights we'd of probably been able to right him off. As it is, he's more of an unknown at the highest level than anything else.

I think patience may be required as I strongly believe Carl & Quigg will fight next year, now that tv networks aren't a problem and all seem keen on it. Avalos is the best guy out there after Rigo,LSC,Quigg and Kiko, and Carl has to fight him next as a mandatory. So I don't think there's any problem with who Frampton is being matched with.
Quigg & LSC are being put in with extremely easy opposition, but at least with Quigg he'll likely fight Frampton, LSC will continue to be kept away from any half decent opposition most likely.
Rigo, well people just won't put their guys in with him...

Kiko isn't afraid of anyone, but I don't believe most of these fighters are. It's their teams that are the problem. Kiko's team had no problem going to Belfast for a rematch cause they were offered £500,000 (€632,000), they'd have been crazy not to take it. You can bet he got big money for that Hasagawa fight aswell, as Hozumi is/was a huge name in Japan. Mathebula was a mandatory, and Rhomero was an opportunity to win a World title.
So while he's been put in extremely tough fights back to back, anyone would of made the same choices for him. They were no brainers.









*Munyai and Jamoye are actually good fighters, but not on short notice up at Super-Bantamweight. Munyai was a very good Bantam, but mainly due to his size, which is lost at the weight up, and Jamoye can make Super-Flyweight !

megadodge

Cleverly and Bellew on Ringside now and Bellew is making a tool of himself as usual. Mouthing and more mouthing, but saying nothing.

Contradicting himself all the time. Says in one sentence "I've got no anger and hate" then immediately follows with "I only have anger and hate when I see you". Well which is it Tony?

He claims a mental performance coach who had given his opinion on Bellew was wrong as " he doesn't know me, he's comparing me to other people, everybody is their own person..." etc. Short time later, "I'm the same as everybody else in this room".

He has perpetuated this myth that he won the first fight. If he truely believes that (I don't think he does) he is utterly delusional. Immediately after the final bell, he stood and dropped his head in a very obvious physical manifestation of his disappoinment. He never, ever, ever mentioned anything about a bad decision since until this fight was made, then all of a sudden he starts spouting about how he "won" the first fight.

Most laughable of all is his claim of disrespect. Cleverly has behaved impeccably all along while putting up with his bullsh*t, but he spouts on and on about the disrespect shown to HIM???

Having said all that, I'm really uncertain how this fight will go. The last one was closer than I expected it to be and I believe Bellew has improved technically since then (he's actually quite skilful). I'm still unsure about how Cleverly has got over Kovalev. Has he got over him at all? He doesn't seem as confident as he used to be. He also doesn't have a big enough punch to take advantage of Bellew's middling chin. He will have to walk through some heavy leather to outwork Bellew and if the doubts that Kovalev has planted come back when he's tagged clean I can see Bellew winning by late stoppage or points. If his chin is still as sound as it seemed to be before Kovalev, it will still be close but maybe he can win on workrate. It's an intruiging matchup, but not one I'll pay for.

MD1990

I thought is was funny when Bellew saying he never mentioned about having power, then Sky show a clip with Bellew shouting 'i have the power . lol

Deiseboy01

I think the move up might suit Bellew more, I'd say Cleverley could still make light heavy handily enough, I also doubt Cleverley's self belief having been destroyed by Kovalev.

That said I hope Cleverley absolutely smashes Bellew, cant stand the guy, mouth, mouth, mouth like most bloody scousers.

Big Ears

pac_man wrote: »

Love Warren's analysis on last nights ringside.

"Funny watching them try to convince people to pay£15 by having their main event argue with each other over who got KO'd by the better fighter".

Haha, in the words of James Degale; 'Tell em Frank !'

I've avoided the build up to Cleverly vs Bellew II because the nonsense from Bellew bores me tbh. I am interested in the fight, although not for €20 or whatever they'll charge in ROI.
Bellew always goes on talking about hows he's a warrior, and he'll go to war and blah blah blah. Then he stinks the joint out and if he's lucky lands a big shot to give it the dramatic ending and make him looking exciting.

He's an awful fighter to watch and if this is a good fight and actually does turn into a war it'll be purely down to Cleverly. The winner will have to be maneuvered extremely carefully if they're gonna pick up a strap after this bout.

unknown13

Big Ears wrote: »

The winner will have to be maneuvered extremely carefully if they're gonna pick up a strap after this bout.

Huck and Hernandez are definitely out then. Lebedev possibly out, so Drozd it is for the winner.

Pighead

pac_man wrote: »

Seems like I'd be against the grain here in saying that I enjoy listening to Bellew. Sure, most of it is probably contradictory but someone has to play the bad cop.

I like him too. Some of the stuff he comes out with is hilarious. In the build up to fights he comes across as ultra serious and a bit intense but generally in his interviews he comes across very funny and a relaxed kind of fella.

walshb

I think Bellew's comments about taking real pleasure in smashing faces in the ring was disgraceful. Real low life comments. Boxing is a beautiful, (and of course, at times brutal) science, but that talk should not be tolerated from pro fighters. It's disgusting. He should be pulled on it by the authorities.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt.He's a good salesman who spouts a bit of fluff to sell the fight.

Pinch or salt or not, they shouldn't be tolerated.