Bullying by boss

Mikjayfay

Hello I'm new to this, My son has a problem at work... I will give you a rough background so you can follow where we are at.
Originally my son started work at a web design company fairly close to home and I was picking him up and dropping him off.
The company then moved a distance away and he needed to get the train, which added to his costs... ie 100 per month. nothing we could do about it he needed to comute.
He gets into work 10/15 minutes early and gets on with it. coming home the train is at 5.02pm and he finishes at 5pm...he has been finishing at 4.55pm so he can run to the train station and catch the 5.02 train.
His bosses are being assholes (as far as I'm concerned) and insisting he finishes at 5pm. which means he has to wait an hour for the next train. Other staff are being treated more favourably and get away with things cos they are "friendly" with bosses.
This is just a small part of his problems at work, but it is the straw that is breaking the camal back as far as he is concerned.
Today he came home and said thats it he quits tommorow...not even going in...
The company is not a brilliant employer but its been a job for the last two years.. no union membership, pension etc... and the money isn't that great for what he does... Sorry to ramble but the lads in a state and needs to sort this.

Mrs OBumble

Sorry, but insisting that he work his contracted hours is not bullying.

Give us something else to go on, and we might be able to give better advice.

Could he get a car?

Or car pool?

Mikjayfay

He dosen't drive and others do not live this way.
When the company moved they agreed to let him finish a few minutes early in order to catch the train. He offered to make the time up when he started early. over time this has been forgotten and it was not written down... This company has a poor reputation as far as staff morale is concerned,
My son started off with a contact but this was not updated when the move took place and is no longer valid.
Basically the lady boss is targeting him and picking faults in order to get him to quit. Yet if he quits he is in charge of getting the production online and is the only one with the IT knowledge to do this at the moment...most of the other staff are sales.

Mikjayfay

Mikjayfay wrote: »

He dosen't drive and others do not live this way.
When the company moved they agreed to let him finish a few minutes early in order to catch the train. He offered to make the time up when he started early. over time this has been forgotten and it was not written down... This company has a poor reputation as far as staff morale is concerned,
My son started off with a contact but this was not updated when the move took place and is no longer valid.
Basically the lady boss is targeting him and picking faults in order to get him to quit. Yet if he quits he is in charge of getting the production online and is the only one with the IT knowledge to do this at the moment...most of the other staff are sales.

Why not contact HR over the non contract issue?

Why would they want him to quit is he is so specialised in his role?

I think there's pieces of this story missing tbh, doesn't add up

TimeToShine

Mikjayfay wrote: »

He dosen't drive and others do not live this way.
When the company moved they agreed to let him finish a few minutes early in order to catch the train. He offered to make the time up when he started early. over time this has been forgotten and it was not written down... This company has a poor reputation as far as staff morale is concerned,
My son started off with a contact but this was not updated when the move took place and is no longer valid.
Basically the lady boss is targeting him and picking faults in order to get him to quit. Yet if he quits he is in charge of getting the production online and is the only one with the IT knowledge to do this at the moment...most of the other staff are sales.

So she is trying to get him to quit even though he has no contract? And he is pivotal to an ongoing project there?

Sounds to me like the ball is in his court, but then again as above this story certainly doesn't add up. What are they going to do if he leaves at 4.55 every day? Fire him?

davo10

His contract doesn't necessarily need to be updated. He is still contracted to do the same job at the same times. Starting earlier is not the same as finishing earlier if the companies he deals with order later.

The employer is not responsible for his travel to and from work whereas the employee is responsible for being there during contracted hours. Five minutes per day is 25 minutes per week, over 100 minutes per month, 1200 minutes per year. That is 3 working days, how many employers would give employees an extra 3 days annual leave if they were asked? And if they did, why not give those extra days to all employees?

MouseTail

If he is young, and this is his first job, he really needs a reference from there. He would be a fool to not show up and just quit. He needs to get a car and/or aggressively job seek.

Afroshack

Mikjayfay wrote: »

Hello I'm new to this, My son has a problem at work... I will give you a rough background so you can follow where we are at.
Originally my son started work at a web design company fairly close to home and I was picking him up and dropping him off.
The company then moved a distance away and he needed to get the train, which added to his costs... ie 100 per month. nothing we could do about it he needed to comute.
He gets into work 10/15 minutes early and gets on with it. coming home the train is at 5.02pm and he finishes at 5pm...he has been finishing at 4.55pm so he can run to the train station and catch the 5.02 train.
His bosses are being assholes (as far as I'm concerned) and insisting he finishes at 5pm. which means he has to wait an hour for the next train. Other staff are being treated more favourably and get away with things cos they are "friendly" with bosses.
This is just a small part of his problems at work, but it is the straw that is breaking the camal back as far as he is concerned.
Today he came home and said thats it he quits tommorow...not even going in...
The company is not a brilliant employer but its been a job for the last two years.. no union membership, pension etc... and the money isn't that great for what he does... Sorry to ramble but the lads in a state and needs to sort this.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but it sounds like your son is totally mollycoddled. He's an adult in a career-type employment who gets daddy (don't know, assuming you are male) to drop him off and collect him and fight his battles in work for him? No wonder he feels he's being bullied because he's expected to work his contracted hours. Your adult son is responsible for working the allocated hours and getting to work on time - it's not reasonable to expect the bosses to work around his schedule.

endacl

Sorry OP? His mum dove him to and from work? His mum comes on here for advice on how to sort his problem with the boss? Which really isn't a problem?

Perhaps he should sort this out himself? Or sort himself out?

the_syco

Mikjayfay wrote: »

Yet if he quits he is in charge of getting the production online and is the only one with the IT knowledge to do this at the moment...most of the other staff are sales.

The bolded bit doesn't make much sense. If he quits, he's out, no longer in charge of anything. When is the next bus?

christy02

Very few jobs are 9-5 these days. He needs to be more flexible than that imo. I would not let any of my team finish 5 mins early every day.

That opens up someone else looking to finish 10 mins earlier or more and no end to it.

An adult getting his mam to drop him to work and collect him is pathetic. He needs to live his own life. Why can't he get a later train?
Maybe work on an extra half hour and show he is committed to the role. The boss may not then favour others over him

Real world is tough away from mammys bosom!!!

Mikjayfay

Actually this is his dad, I don't mind dropping him when I am going the same way...actually I drop my daughter off at work too...
He's totally frustrated with things that is why I posted on the quiet..he does not know I have posted here..

Rubberchikken

Imo a sign of inflexability in a boss is a weakness.
If he's able to be in early every morning it makes no logical sense to not leave him go a few minutes early each evening to save having to wait an extra hour for a bus.
But i realise not a lot of peole think like me.

He could suck it up for the moment and in the meantime job hunt and save for a car/own place.
Good luck

Afroshack

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Imo a sign of inflexability in a boss is a weakness.
If he's able to be in early every morning it makes no logical sense to not leave him go a few minutes early each evening to save having to wait an extra hour for a bus.
But i realise not a lot of peole think like me.

He could suck it up for the moment and in the meantime job hunt and save for a car/own place.
Good luck

Yeah but where do you draw the line in terms of flexibility? One person wants to go 5 mins early every day, then the train times change and it becomes 10 minutes earlier. Then a second person wants to do same, then a third, then the train times change again a year later and suddenly you might have 4/5 people operating on their own flexitime, coming in and leaving when they want, when everyone else is contracted to 9-5 (could also be the office opening hours when they deal with the public so a portion of the office making themselves unavailable piles the extra work onto others)

tenifan

Oh op.. Leave the boy alone. You're not doing him any favours.

Do you really think a young man gives a sh*t about a pension or union membership? Who's that really talking?

I'm speaking from experience, my time at my first job was miserable. Woken in the morning by my mam. Driven to work. Told by my dad i was earning peanuts. Convinced by both parents i couldn't afford to move out, while the real reason was they were putting ridiculous pressure on me to buy a house (don't ask me how that went). Picked up in the evening by my mam. A joyless existence.

Surely you can see some parallels to your son's case and perhaps undue pressure your putting on him?

If he moved closer to work, along a better but route or walking/cycling distance, that 5 mins wouldn't even matter. He'd be getting on with his life and earning a bit of money and enjoying the fact he finishes at 5 instead of 5.30 or 6 like most people.

Time to cut the apron strings. How about you stump up some money for a deposit and his first month's rent and let him get on with things?

Edit: oh didn't mean to sound so harsh. Really though, you clearly think a lot of him when you say he's "the only one in the company who can...". Truth is though, work is a bit tougher than a few decades ago. I've noticed a lot of changes in the past 15 years even in various places in worked. That being said, if he's so indispensable, and he leaving anyway, a " don't give a f" attitude might be worth trying. He should continue to leave on time "as previously agreed". But to remove the stress altogether, own car or own house is the way to go.
If he can access work resources from home he could offer to check emails or something when he arrives home in order to respond to queries received between 4.55 and 5

the_syco

First job, I cycled to work. Heck, I pretty much cycled to work if it was within 20 minutes cycle until recently (I now drive). Is it possible for him to cycle to work?

Most jobs that I've worked in won't negotiate with unions, and most have stopped offering pensions to new employees. Can your son be replaced by someone for one fifth his salary in a far away land? A few people I know who left, had their old job position moved to, and filled, in Kuala Lumpur.

Frigga_92

OP, when I started in my current job, which I am in nearly 4 years now, I had to use public transport for a few months while I saved up some money for my own transport as I had been unemployed for a few months prior. This meant I had to get a bus and cycle 45 mins to and from the bus station everyday as there was no bus out to where I lived.
Our normal hours are 9-5:30 but on Fridays we finish at 5.
The bus I used to get arrived between 5:45 and 6:10 (depending on delays on route etc), 3 times a week it was usually 6:10 by the time it arrived.
The next bus didn't arrive until 6:40.
So on normal days, Mon - Thurs, I would finish work and wait between 15 and 40 mins for the bus. However, on Fridays I had to sometimes wait an hour and 10 mins, sometimes more because traffic on Fridays is generally heavier, I remember one Friday I waited until 6:45 for the bus and then 2 came together :rolleyes:
There was also a bus that left at 4:35 and was always on time.

So I made an agreement with my boss that 3 Fridays a month she would let me leave early to make the 4:35 bus and on the other Friday I would stay late and get the 6:40 bus home.
This agreement only lasted about 4 months and was only ever going to be a temporary arrangement which worked in both our favour.

If your son could maybe suggest something like that until he can arrange better transport for himself I certainly think it would be better than quitting his job.

Penny Tration

I really don't see the issue here.

He's being asked to stay until he's finished work. That's not bullying.

So what if he has to wait for a train? If i leave work 5 minutes early, I can catch a bus right when I get to the bus stop, which is a 10-15 min walk away. If I leave on time, i have to wait up to an hour after I get to the bus stop.

I never leave early, because I work my contracted hours.


He can bring a book, some music, whatever. It's a non-issue. If you rely on public transport, you get used to waiting for it.

Mr. Incognito

Poor lad. Bullied by his boss and his Dad.

He is a grown man. Cut the apron strings.

He can work till five and take his time getting home.

Back off

Tiger Mcilroy

green_screen wrote: »

I really don't see the issue here.

He's being asked to stay until he's finished work. That's not bullying.

So what if he has to wait for a train? If i leave work 5 minutes early, I can catch a bus right when I get to the bus stop, which is a 10-15 min walk away. If I leave on time, i have to wait up to an hour after I get to the bus stop.

I never leave early, because I work my contracted hours.


He can bring a book, some music, whatever. It's a non-issue. If you rely on public transport, you get used to waiting for it.

Thats pretty much it, employees cant have it all their own way and you work your hours. Ive worked in a few It companies and its always been the same with bosses you give and take to get a favour now and again.

Getting you knickers in a twist over 5 minutes and not being flexible gets you no favours.

Elessar

Afroshack wrote: »

Yeah but where do you draw the line in terms of flexibility? One person wants to go 5 mins early every day, then the train times change and it becomes 10 minutes earlier. Then a second person wants to do same, then a third, then the train times change again a year later and suddenly you might have 4/5 people operating on their own flexitime, coming in and leaving when they want, when everyone else is contracted to 9-5 (could also be the office opening hours when they deal with the public so a portion of the office making themselves unavailable piles the extra work onto others)

This is IT not some generic office. Strict 9-5 is going the way of the dodo in this industry. If he's a web developer (with 2 years experience?) he will be in demand at the moment. This company he works for needs to be aware of this. Flexible working hours are part and parcel of many IT companies and TBH, if his bosses are being anal about 5 mins to get the train (even though he comes in early every morning) - they are not worth working for.

OP I would advise you to advise your son to start looking for another job. If he has the experience you say he has, he won't be long finding work. And believe me there are many IT companies out there who treat their staff really well and wouldn't get into hissy fits if someone needs to finish 5 mins early!! I wouldn't even have to ask for this in my company (and it's not even the best IT company) - I just go! The clock is not watched and we are trusted to do the job. Working for a company like your sons would drive me mental.

davo10

Elessar wrote: »

This is IT not some generic office. Strict 9-5 is going the way of the dodo in this industry. If he's a web developer (with 2 years experience?) he will be in demand at the moment. This company he works for needs to be aware of this. Flexible working hours are part and parcel of many IT companies and TBH, if his bosses are being anal about 5 mins to get the train (even though he comes in early every morning) - they are not worth working for.

OP I would advise you to advise your son to start looking for another job. If he has the experience you say he has, he won't be long finding work. And believe me there are many IT companies out there who treat their staff really well and wouldn't get into hissy fits if someone needs to finish 5 mins early!! I wouldn't even have to ask for this in my company (and it's not even the best IT company) - I just go! The clock is not watched and we are trusted to do the job. Working for a company like your sons would drive me mental.

If only life was like that. If it isn't, you have just advised him to join the other 40 applicants for every IT job.

Cunning Alias

I work in IT as a developer and strict times are non-existent as long as you aren't taking the piss and your required amount time is filled. Here is what I would suggest.

Simplest one for me would to offer to take a shorter lunch. If he has an hour, take 45 mins and then leave 5 mins early. Employer is getting 10 extra minutes and the employee is happy. I normally take a 30 min lunch in order to leave a bit early.

Check the contract. If it has a set amount of weekly hours then flexibility shouldn't be an issue. If it has set office hours of 9-5 then it might be a problem.

I have asked about this kind of stuff in interviews in the past and I only had one company tell me they are strictly 9-5:30 and it was the IT department of a large old Irish company that was stuck in its ways.

imitation

Honestly I think he might be penny pinching on minutes. If he takes the late train a few times a week and does a bit of extra work nobody will say anything, and if they do he can point out hes working more hours. No young fella without kids to pick up has an excuse to need to leave at 5 on the dot.

I know id rather have 43 hours clocked a week than 39.5. If theres no recognition of this extra time in yearly reviews and salary then its time to move on, theres plenty of work in IT. When your managing a system or doing a project you need to put in the extra time. If you play it like you cant wait to ditch the place at 5 then management arent going to be impressed.

smcgiff

The OP's son probably comes in early because it suits his journey time.

It looks like a key person wants to leave every day before 5pm.

He should be paid well if the company relies on him, but he sounds immature. I agree, not getting the whole story I feel.

jiminho

I don't want to comment on this particular issue as the OP really needs to let their son fight their own battles but I would say one thing. If I was an employer and an employee approached me and said "the train schedules are a pain and the next train after work finishes isn't for another hour. If I come in 15 mins early can I leave 5 mins early?" I'm pretty sure I'd say yes. I think most people need to get a grip of themselves. Being a boss is being a micro manager. Treating employees on a case by case basis. Everybody needs a certain amount of flexibility. If you act like a Scrooge I'm not surprised there's a high turnover. Beside he'll be working the same hours so what's the big deal?

BizzyC

jiminho wrote: »

I don't want to comment on this particular issue as the OP really needs to let their son fight their own battles but I would say one thing. If I was an employer and an employee approached me and said "the train schedules are a pain and the next train after work finishes isn't for another hour. If I come in 15 mins early can I leave 5 mins early?" I'm pretty sure I'd say yes. I think most people need to get a grip of themselves. Being a boss is being a micro manager. Treating employees on a case by case basis. Everybody needs a certain amount of flexibility. If you act like a Scrooge I'm not surprised there's a high turnover. Beside he'll be working the same hours so what's the big deal?

It depends on the type of role in question.

If you manage a support environment you need to keep adequate cover available over the hours of service.
If you allow someone to leave early every day and there's an issue in that time, you don't really have any good excuse as to why there wasn't adequate cover other than poor management.

jiminho

BizzyC wrote: »

It depends on the type of role in question.

If you manage a support environment you need to keep adequate cover available over the hours of service.
If you allow someone to leave early every day and there's an issue in that time, you don't really have any good excuse as to why there wasn't adequate cover other than poor management.

We're talking 5 minutes here not 5 hours besides unless it's critical , if someone came to me with work to do at 4:55pm, I'd say sure, I'll take a look at it tomorrow. 99% of tasks cannot be completed in 5 mins and if a critical task does get given to him within that 5 min period, I'm sure it will take at good bit longer and he'll be looking at the next train anyway. I think everyone is getting a bit tight arsed here and very unreasonable.

davo10

jiminho wrote: »

We're talking 5 minutes here not 5 hours besides unless it's critical , if someone came to me with work to do at 4:55pm, I'd say sure, I'll take a look at it tomorrow. 99% of tasks cannot be completed in 5 mins and if a critical task does get given to him within that 5 min period, I'm sure it will take at good bit longer and he'll be looking at the next train anyway. I think everyone is getting a bit tight arsed here and very unreasonable.

5 mins per day is 3 days per year, a lot or work gets done in 3 days, if you feel is unreasonable, you tell your boss you want 3 extra holiday days per year, see what he/she says.

TheBlock

davo10 wrote: »

5 mins per day is 3 days per year, a lot or work gets done in 3 days, if you feel is unreasonable, you tell your boss you want 3 extra holiday days per year, see what he/she says.

It's actually 20 hours a year based on 5 x 5 x 48 weeks (allowing for holidays). You are also leaving out the fact that he works 60 hours a year by starting early every morning (15 mins x 5 days a 48 weeks).

If a manager can't allow this their not much of a people manger in my book. Having managed staff for over 15 Years this little bit of flexibility tends to be very much appreciated and comes back in spades.

jiminho

davo10 wrote: »

5 mins per day is 3 days per year, a lot or work gets done in 3 days, if you feel is unreasonable, you tell your boss you want 3 extra holiday days per year, see what he/she says.

This will be my last response because I think people are now arguing for the sake of it. Technically he'll be working a net 10 mins per day so approx. 5.5 days per year extra. Your logic is skewed also because you think a task can be completed or started in 5 mins. If I start a task at 4:55, il probably have to read over it again to essentially reset the clock the following day. If it takes a contractor 3 days to pave a driveway, do you think he'll complete that driveway within a year if he only works on it 5 mins per day? Probably not because he needs to mobilize and demobilize every day. I'd personally hate to work for anyone here if they had the same attitude as the boss in question or perhaps you guys are already being treated this way in your own job. In which case.....sucks to be you 😀

davo10

TheBlock wrote: »

It's actually 20 hours a year based on 5 x 5 x 48 weeks (allowing for holidays). You are also leaving out the fact that he works 60 hours a year by starting early every morning (15 mins x 5 days a 48 weeks).

If a manager can't allow this their not much of a people manger in my book. Having managed staff for over 15 Years this little bit of flexibility tends to be very much appreciated and comes back in spades.

Not to be pedantic but 20 hours is just shy of 3 days assuming 1 hour for lunch. You can start an hour early if you like but if that is not contracted/office/working hours, it means bo diddly. If a manager allows an employee to dictate working time, he/she has to allow it for all, that doesn't make for much of a manager. OP wants to leave 5 mins early, someone else wants to leave 10 mins early, someone else 15. Great management, contracted time/hours are there for a reason.

davo10

jiminho wrote: »

This will be my last response because I think people are now arguing for the sake of it. Technically he'll be working a net 10 mins per day so approx. 5.5 days per year extra. Your logic is skewed also because you think a task can be completed or started in 5 mins. If I start a task at 4:55, il probably have to read over it again to essentially reset the clock the following day. If it takes a contractor 3 days to pave a driveway, do you think he'll complete that driveway within a year if he only works on it 5 mins per day? Probably not because he needs to mobilize and demobilize every day. I'd personally hate to work for anyone here if they had the same attitude as the boss in question or perhaps you guys are already being treated this way in your own job. In which case.....sucks to be you 😀

Sucks to be unemployed because you wouldn't work the hours you are contracted to work. But hell, there are lots more who will.

Wabbit Ears

an old saying that holds true, No none notices what time you arrive, they only notice what time you leave...

TheBlock

davo10 wrote: »

Not to be pedantic but 20 hours is just shy of 3 days assuming 1 hour for lunch. You can start an hour early if you like but if that is not contracted/office/working hours, it means bo diddly. If a manager allows an employee to dictate working time, he/she has to allow it for all, that doesn't make for much of a manager. OP wants to leave 5 mins early, someone else wants to leave 10 mins early, someone else 15. Great management, contracted time/hours are there for a reason.

See that's not my style of management or thankfully that of any of the managers I have worked for. I trust my staff to complete assigned workload and tasks in good time. I don't clock watch. Any overtime worked is very much appreciated by me and means more that "Bo Diddley". I'd like to think staff don't just clock in at 9 and out at 5 especially if work needs require some flexibility. Flexibility needs to go both ways. As a Manager I can deal with staff on an individual level and make individual informal agreements with staff all the time on the basis that these can and will be reviewed based on business needs.

Anyway, we haven't heard from the OP if his son is on a contract with fixed working hours 9 - 5 which are very unusual now. It sounds to me like his son needs to have a char with his and work out an arrangement that suits both.

TheBlock

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

an old saying that holds true, No none notices what time you arrive, they only notice what time you leave...

That is/was very true. However I think most people are moving away from this clock watching to a more task/work based approach. I'd don't like people sitting at their desk till hours. If that's the case they're either overloaded or unproductive/unorganised.

davo10

TheBlock wrote: »

See that's not my style of management or thankfully that of any of the managers I have worked for. I trust my staff to complete assigned workload and tasks in good time. I don't clock watch. Any overtime worked is very much appreciated by me and means more that "Bo Diddley". I'd like to think staff don't just clock in at 9 and out at 5 especially if work needs require some flexibility. Flexibility needs to go both ways. As a Manager I can deal with staff on an individual level and make individual informal agreements with staff all the time on the basis that these can and will be reviewed based on business needs.

Anyway, we haven't heard from the OP if his son is on a contract with fixed working hours 9 - 5 which are very unusual now. It sounds to me like his son needs to have a char with his and work out an arrangement that suits both.

That is a great post. Every job is different and specific. The problem arises when jobs are time sensitive, for example there may be no benefit to an employer to an employee coming in earlier than their contracted hours. The main issue tends to be that what applies to one applies to all, if one employee is allowed to finish early, then all can argue that they should be allowed. In my job doors open at 9am close at 5, if someone wants to start at 8:55, then it is of no benefit as doors open at 9

Again, this seems to be a blaise irish mentality, we want work but on our own terms, is contracted terms are x and y, then what is the problem?

Allyall

Afroshack wrote: »

Yeah but where do you draw the line in terms of flexibility? One person wants to go 5 mins early every day, then the train times change and it becomes 10 minutes earlier. Then a second person wants to do same, then a third, then the train times change again a year later and suddenly you might have 4/5 people operating on their own flexitime, coming in and leaving when they want, when everyone else is contracted to 9-5 (could also be the office opening hours when they deal with the public so a portion of the office making themselves unavailable piles the extra work onto others)

That escalated pretty quickly..
Also, if that train moved to an earlier time, wouldn't the later train also? meaning it wouldn't be much of a problem as he'd probably happily wait the 20 minutes for a train as opposed to waiting the hour currently, because he can't leave 4-5 minutes early..
In any employment I've been in, I've never seen any any boss be that much of a stickler to the timetable, especially if the employee is young/just entering the workforce, and running for a train.

irishguy1983

TheBlock wrote: »

See that's not my style of management or thankfully that of any of the managers I have worked for. I trust my staff to complete assigned workload and tasks in good time. I don't clock watch. Any overtime worked is very much appreciated by me and means more that "Bo Diddley". I'd like to think staff don't just clock in at 9 and out at 5 especially if work needs require some flexibility. Flexibility needs to go both ways. As a Manager I can deal with staff on an individual level and make individual informal agreements with staff all the time on the basis that these can and will be reviewed based on business needs.

Anyway, we haven't heard from the OP if his son is on a contract with fixed working hours 9 - 5 which are very unusual now. It sounds to me like his son needs to have a char with his and work out an arrangement that suits both.

I'd imagine this guy doesn't have high staff turnover - you'll get a lot more from people if you work like this

mfceiling

Mikjayfay wrote: »

Hello I'm new to this, My son has a problem at work... I will give you a rough background so you can follow where we are at.
Originally my son started work at a web design company fairly close to home and I was picking him up and dropping him off.
The company then moved a distance away and he needed to get the train, which added to his costs... ie 100 per month. nothing we could do about it he needed to comute.
He gets into work 10/15 minutes early and gets on with it. coming home the train is at 5.02pm and he finishes at 5pm...he has been finishing at 4.55pm so he can run to the train station and catch the 5.02 train.
His bosses are being assholes (as far as I'm concerned) and insisting he finishes at 5pm. which means he has to wait an hour for the next train. Other staff are being treated more favourably and get away with things cos they are "friendly" with bosses.
This is just a small part of his problems at work, but it is the straw that is breaking the camal back as far as he is concerned.
Today he came home and said thats it he quits tommorow...not even going in...
The company is not a brilliant employer but its been a job for the last two years.. no union membership, pension etc... and the money isn't that great for what he does... Sorry to ramble but the lads in a state and needs to sort this.

I had a friend who used to do this and the boss was very inflexible in letting him leave a few minutes earlier every thursday to collect his daughter.

He said f*ck it and just sat in his van until 7.58 every morning instead of 7.40 or 7.45...boss man wasn't happy and actually banged his van window one morning, asking him "are you coming in or what?"...his reply "i'm paid from 8, not a quarter too".

davo10

mfceiling wrote: »

I had a friend who used to do this and the boss was very inflexible in letting him leave a few minutes earlier every thursday to collect his daughter.

He said f*ck it and just sat in his van until 7.58 every morning instead of 7.40 or 7.45...boss man wasn't happy and actually banged his van window one morning, asking him "are you coming in or what?"...his reply "i'm paid from 8, not a quarter too".

That's a fair response, presuming your friend is ready at his/her work "station" at 8am not just walking through the door.

jiminho

davo10 wrote: »

That is a great post. Every job is different and specific. The problem arises when jobs are time sensitive, for example there may be no benefit to an employer to an employee coming in earlier than their contracted hours. The main issue tends to be that what applies to one applies to all, if one employee is allowed to finish early, then all can argue that they should be allowed. In my job doors open at 9am close at 5, if someone wants to start at 8:55, then it is of no benefit as doors open at 9

Again, this seems to be a blaise irish mentality, we want work but on our own terms, is contracted terms are x and y, then what is the problem?

davo10: can I ask what your job is?

davo10

jiminho wrote: »

davo10: can I ask what your job is?

Does it matter any more than the job you work at?

mfceiling

davo10 wrote: »

That's a fair response, presuming your friend is ready at his/her work "station" at 8am not just walking through the door.

He was...and the boss used to pull out the classic "we're all working late tonight" at least once a week...he never mentioned paying the overtime!!

pablo128

davo10 wrote: »

That's a fair response, presuming your friend is ready at his/her work "station" at 8am not just walking through the door.

Not like you then, as your doors open at 9, don't they? What time do you actually start doing some work at, seeing as you physically can't enter your workplace before 9?

davo10

pablo128 wrote: »

Not like you then, as your doors open at 9, don't they? What time do you actually start doing some work at, seeing as you physically can't enter your workplace before 9?

"doors open at 9" is a figure of speech, it relates to the public/customers, in other words trading starts at 9. Doors are open for staff earlier, in most jobs staff entrances open well before trading hours, or staff have keys/fobs/cards/codes to get in.

My point being, if you work in a job that trading/service begins at a certain time, be it IT/retail/entertainment/trades person , then coming in early may not make any difference to your employer whereas allowing all staff (if you allow one and not another, this leads to problems with staff) to leave early may have an impact on work done.

OP can ask by all means, but there is no reason to feel entitled to leave work early every single day, nor should OP nor anyone else feel bitter for not being allowed. He is contracted to work between certain hours and any deviation from that should only be with agreement from employer. What's the big deal with getting a later bus?

Crumbs868

he should have gotten prior agreement from his manager to finish early and they are under no obligation to oblige.

It's disruptive to the rest of the office. ie shuffling with jackets drawers etc when everyone else is still working and trying to finish things. Also leaving 5 mins earlier means stopping work 10 mins early to allow time to power down etc. Plus it gives the impression of clock watching so could even mean "switching off" 20 mins early because it's not worth staring a new task.

Saying all of the above any good manager would have nipped it in the bud earlier on and not let it continue if it annoys them rather than letting it linger and interfere with their working relationship

Teyla Emmagan

Crumbs868 wrote: »

he should have gotten prior agreement from his manager to finish early and they are under no obligation to oblige.

It's disruptive to the rest of the office. ie shuffling with jackets drawers etc when everyone else is still working and trying to finish things. Also leaving 5 mins earlier means stopping work 10 mins early to allow time to power down etc. Plus it gives the impression of clock watching so could even mean "switching off" 20 mins early because it's not worth staring a new task.

It takes two seconds to lock a PC. And who sits looking at their computer when it's 'powering down'? I turn my computer off for bank holiday weekends and weeks away, not otherwise. Also I think you'd have to be looking for distraction if someone putting a jacket on behind you was an issue!

I have never understood places with really inflexible working hours because I have never worked in one. They're alien to me. Where I work (in IT like the OP's son) people start anywhere between 7 and 10 and leave from 3 onwards. There is a constant flow of people but it's not distracting or noisy. People are usually gone before you know it. Our place is managed on a 'the work must be done' rather than a 'all seats must be filled during these hours' basis though. But increasingly employers in my experience give more flexible working hours now. They have to be more family oriented to get the staff. I know there are jobs where you absolutely have to be there to answer the phones between certain hours etc, but in my industry anyway that sort of rigidity doesn't exist anymore.

davo10

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

It takes two seconds to lock a PC. And who sits looking at their computer when it's 'powering down'? I turn my computer off for bank holiday weekends and weeks away, not otherwise. Also I think you'd have to be looking for distraction if someone putting a jacket on behind you was an issue!

I have never understood places with really inflexible working hours because I have never worked in one. They're alien to me. Where I work (in IT like the OP's son) people start anywhere between 7 and 10 and leave from 3 onwards. There is a constant flow of people but it's not distracting or noisy. People are usually gone before you know it. Our place is managed on a 'the work must be done' rather than a 'all seats must be filled during these hours' basis though. But increasingly employers in my experience give more flexible working hours now. They have to be more family oriented to get the staff. I know there are jobs where you absolutely have to be there to answer the phones between certain hours etc, but in my industry anyway that sort of rigidity doesn't exist anymore.

That's fair enough and sounds great, but that is not the point of the thread. All working environments work differently, but OP feels "bullied" because his boss won't allow him to leave earlier than his contracted finishing time. If all employees have the same working conditions like in your place, then someone finishing earlier than others is not an issue, but if ops place of work runs on set hours for everyone, then each employee can't decide to come in/leave at times different to everyone else. Different companies have different work practices, but you have to work as per contract, if you don't, then it isn't bullying, it's time to find a job in your company.

SameDiff

davo10 wrote: »

That is a great post. Every job is different and specific. The problem arises when jobs are time sensitive, for example there may be no benefit to an employer to an employee coming in earlier than their contracted hours. The main issue tends to be that what applies to one applies to all, if one employee is allowed to finish early, then all can argue that they should be allowed. In my job doors open at 9am close at 5, if someone wants to start at 8:55, then it is of no benefit as doors open at 9

Again, this seems to be a blaise irish mentality, we want work but on our own terms, is contracted terms are x and y, then what is the problem?

Don't be so ridiculous. They're insisting he stays for five lousy minutes to be dicks.

If they were decent employers, they would organise a shorter lunch for him, or work later one day a week, or something else.

We don't all work in a cobblers or whatever the hell it is you do