Christening

Hello,

I have been driven demented by my mother insisting that my son should be christening. She is in a very bad way and is bursting into tears and entering a depression over it. My husband doesnt feel strongly on the matter and thinks we should get it done to make her happy. Everypart of me feels this is a wrong decision. Im not catholic and dont want this for my son. She doesnt respect my beliefs and this is now driving a huge wedge between us.

Any advise?

Thanks

WittyName1

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Hello,

I have been driven demented by my mother insisting that my son should be christening. She is in a very bad way and is bursting into tears and entering a depression over it. My husband doesnt feel strongly on the matter and things we should get it done to make her happy. Everypart of me feels this is a wrong decision. Im not catholic and dont want this for my son. She doesnt respect my beliefs and this is now driving a huge wedge between us.

Any advise?

Thanks

I don't have any actual advise but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't give in to what is essentially a tantrum by your Mother. There's absolutely no way I will be Christening any of my future children. Far too many non believers go along with Christenings and first holy communions just because its 'the done thing'.

The Catholic Church in this country is an absolute joke and the sooner they lose their hold over people the better. It's this fear that people like your Mother have that is fueling the power they still have in this country.

Edited to add that a similar thread appeared in the personal issues forum here before....except the grandmother had actually gone behind the backs of the childs parents and had the child Christened herself!

Queen-Mise

How about a Naming Ceremony or something to that effect?

If you bow now to the Christening, you will have this same battle for First Communion and Confirmation.

Think about it seriously.

I did Christenings/Communions/Confirmations for the kids. I am anti-religious, but let the kids make up their own minds. Son is just after confirmation and is pretty apathetic about it. My daughter just had communion still enjoys Mass, prayers, the church etc. At mass the other day for a feast day for the founder of her school - she was praying for Tipp to win All-Ireland

WittyName1

Queen-Mise wrote: »

How about a Naming Ceremony or something to that effect?

If you bow now to the Christening, you will have this same battle for First Communion and Confirmation.

Think about it seriously.

I did Christenings/Communions/Confirmations for the kids. I am anti-religious, but let the kids make up their own minds. Son is just after confirmation and is pretty apathetic about it. My daughter just had communion still enjoys Mass, prayers, the church etc. At mass the other day for a feast day for the founder of her school - she was praying for Tipp to win All-Ireland

I don't mean to pick flaws in your post but by having your kids christened you didn't really 'let the kids make up their own minds'.

Neyite

I got my son baptised due to family expectations, and I really regret it. If I manage to have any more they won't be baptised.

Dont give in if you are not catholic. She can still 'baptise' the child herself with some holy water if she fears for his immortal soul, but at least he won't be on the baptismal register for life then. I know that lay people can baptise to satisfy their god - is get into heaven, say, in the event of an emergency but you have to get done again by a priest to get the certificate.

Foxmint

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Hello,

I have been driven demented by my mother insisting that my son should be christening. She is in a very bad way and is bursting into tears and entering a depression over it. My husband doesnt feel strongly on the matter and things we should get it done to make her happy. Everypart of me feels this is a wrong decision. Im not catholic and dont want this for my son. She doesnt respect my beliefs and this is now driving a huge wedge between us.

Any advise?

Thanks

Remember your mother feels this way because she truly believes it could effect her grandchild's eternity, so don't be too hard on her. Her belief that its good for the child, is a strong as yours.

It's your child though, and therefore your decision.

I wouldn't get into a direct argument with her about it, just say something along the lines of, "I'm not comfortable about it given everything that happened in the Church, maybe when he's older, and he wants to himself, and he can become a Christian/Catholic if he wants to when's he's older. The important thing is, neither of us should fall out about it."

pinkbear

I am atheist but chose to get my kids christened. This was because my parents are so religious that it would have upset them so hugely to think that their beloved grandchildren could never make it into heaven. To me, it was nothing, but to them it was everything. I couldn't bear to make them that upset, even though I didn't agree with them.

The Catholic church allow any kind of christenings in an emergency.... what about letting your mother christen the kids at the kitchen sink? That way she can believe that they'll make it into heaven some day, and you can easily forget and don't have to acknowledge it ever happened.

indigo twist

My parents would be pretty strict Catholics; my boyfriend and I are not religious.

I respect the fact that it must be very upsetting for my parents that their grandson won't be brought up as a Catholic. However, as I explained to them, it would be completely disrespectful and hypocritical of me to stand up in their church and make statements I don't believe to their god. I just couldn't do it. I'm not going to make promises I won't keep about bringing him to mass etc. I'm not going to admit that my innocent baby needs to be cleansed of original sin. And remember, as you're making these promises on behalf of your child, the church also requires the parents to affirm their own faith as part of the ceremony.

I know a lot of non-practising Catholics go along with the ceremony and make these vows through gritted teeth. However I think it's because of the fact that I know how important religion is to my parents that I won't do this. Also there's the fact that I get annoyed when I read things statistics about what percentage of the population are Catholic (often used in arguments about abortion legislation etc) - those numbers include myself and my son's father, and there is nothing we can do to remove ourselves from that register, which is very frustrating. But at least I can prevent my son from being included on it - unless of course he ever decides he wants to, and is old enough to make that decision for himself.

I probably wouldn't object to my parents throwing a bit of water over his head and saying a few prayers, as others have suggested - perhaps you could suggest this to your mother? She could even talk to her own priest about it to confirm if this would be enough to save the baby's "immortal soul". It's a possible compromise, and the baby still wouldn't officially "belong" to any specific religion.

Having said that though, as a matter of principle, I wouldn't be too happy if I felt "forced" to compromise in any way on a matter like that. What happens when she disagrees with your disciplinary methods, or your choices when it comes to weaning, or your choice of school? Is this going to start a pattern where, if she cries and moans enough, you'll give in for the sake of peace? Because if you compromise on this, she may come to expect it - and to think that she has a right to have a say on the big parenting decisions.

Bear in mind that your son can be baptised at any stage in his life. But he can never be "unbaptised" - once you've signed him up, he's on the register for life. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. There are so many people in this country (myself included) who wish they had never been baptised, but can't do anything about it. It might be difficult now to explain your decision to your mother - but think long term; isn't it going to be even more difficult in a few years to explain to your son why you lied in order to sign him up for a faith that you don't practise or believe in?

How Strange

Neither of our children are christened. My husband has no religion and never did. He was always firmly against christening them. I was a catholic but am not anymore.

My parents are the traditional practising Catholics. My father would come across as the more staunch in his catholic views yet it was my mother who kicked up the fuss from the time I was pregnant on O.

I've always said to them that we're not doing this to be confrontational. We simply believe very strongly that our children wouldn't be christened Catholics by us. We lost a sibling as a baby so I'm very sensitive that this is a matter close to my mothers heart. She worries about what would happen to then if.....

However I've always told her that she and my dad raised their family their way and this is our family who will be raised according to our values. I still get jibes about holy god or a lack of, about christenings and it not being too late etc but I think the message has finally gotten through.

All I can say is Op, if it's something you feel very strongly about then stand your ground. Your mother is simply throwing a tantrum and if unfortunately she gets depression it's not because you didn't christen your child. It's for many other reasons. If you capitulate and christen then you'll have to go through with the other sacraments too.

Mulumpy

I was brought up in a strong Catholic household. Im non practicing. My wife is C.o.I. Both our kids were babtised in her church but as Christians so they can decide what they want to be when older. our parents were more than happy about this.
OP i do believe i know you have your strong beliefs but is it worth falling out with our parents over. There is always a middle ground somewhere.

newtoboards

I'm no longer a practising Catholic but got married in a church and had my son christened. I did both for my husband and nobody else. My mother really wanted my son baptised but understood it was my decision and left it at that. My mother in law on the other hand was not at all understanding and was devastated when we told her that it was not my wish to have the religious sacraments. She prays for me and put a sneaky medal into my son's crib which I obviously took out due to choking hazard never mind the religion.

It is you and your husbands right and privilege to raise your children as you see fit and to respect other people's choice to do likewise. I would explain it in those terms to her if you can over and over. Don't let her push you into something against your morals and be careful to be dispassionate about it so you don't damage the relationship with her.

Closed_Account

Don't do something you strongly disagree with because you'll really regret it. My OH was fully aware of how strongly I felt before we decided to have kids and even agreed with me to some degree. However, when our first was born, he did a big U turn (mainly down to some family pressure and other feeble excuses). It caused MAJOR ructions I stood my ground and in the end we came to a compromise where we contacted a very nice priest that we know who agreed to give the baby a blessing. He couldn't do it in the church as the baby wasn't christened but agreed to come to our house to do it. It was nice and it went some way towards appeasing family although there are still some raised eyrbrows and remarks when the subject comes up. When anyone tries to go on about it now I just tell them to mind their own business. It's crazy how upset people get over things like this when they rarely bother going to mass etc themselves

Also, to anyone who says they baptised their children so that they can decide when they are older: this is a silly mentality. As it stands, it is extremely difficult to leave the catholic church. So what you are doing, in effect, is agreeing to indoctrinate your child, NOT agreeing to give them a choice at a later date. I didn't baptise my child but when they reach an age where they are fully able to understand religion, if they choose to become catholic, then that is fine by me. Baptising a baby doesn't give them any choice.

Mulumpy

I dont really understand when people say your not giving a child a choice when you baptise them. I was baptised, my parents are very religious but accept my decision not to practice. My parents did they're best for me at the time and ive no regrets. its only a piece of paper at the end of the day its on your own concious what you want to make of it.

newtoboards

Mulumpy wrote: »

I dont really understand when people say your not giving a child a choice when you baptise them. I was baptised, my parents are very religious but accept my decision not to practice. My parents did they're best for me at the time and ive no regrets. its only a piece of paper at the end of the day its on your own concious what you want to make of it.

That piece of paper is a symbol though of something far greater and to get that paper you state that you will raise your child Catholic. Just like the legal marriage certificate is a piece of paper it makes me my husbands next of kin and gives me inheritance rights on his death.

jill_valentine

Give in on this and you'll have to have all the same arguments in seven and then twelve years time.

amdublin

I think that it is wrong to stand up and make commitments that you are not going to go through with. And frankly I think a lot of parents need to realise this.
Why bother with a christening if you are not going to do anything you promised you would do?

How to deal with your mother is a difficulty though. Explain to her that you are perfectly okay with your child making that choice in the future if that is what they want but you are not going to do that now for them.
The few prayers and water (but not official baptism) sounds like a compromise.

indigo twist

Mulumpy wrote: »

I dont really understand when people say your not giving a child a choice when you baptise them. I was baptised, my parents are very religious but accept my decision not to practice. My parents did they're best for me at the time and ive no regrets. its only a piece of paper at the end of the day its on your own concious what you want to make of it.

It's not only a piece of paper when the Catholic church states that its members, which make up XX% of the Irish population, are fundamentally opposed to (for example) divorce and abortion, and when they are including me in those numbers. And when they are denying me the option to ever distance myself from the organisation.

I hate that I am included in that statistic, when I fundamentally oppose the Catholic church's stance on many political issues in Ireland, and disagree with most of the Catholic church's fundamental beliefs and teachings.

I am unhappy that my son will be denied a place in most local schools because he's not Catholic, and Catholics get priority over him on the lists. I am also unhappy that, if I did enrol him in a Catholic school, he will miss out on valuable time that should be spent on education, while his friends are preparing for their communions and confirmations. This is only the case because - according to records - something like 85% of Irish people are Catholics. If we were able to leave the Catholic church; if the records could be updated to reflect the true number of practising Catholics in Ireland, it would be a lot more difficult for the Catholic church to justifying denying children places in school due to their religion (or lack thereof), and it would be a lot more difficult to justify teaching religion (as fact) during school hours.

It's not only a piece of paper. The fact that so many people (like yourself) view it that way is what gives an archaic organisation a disproportionate amount of power and control in Ireland today.

Foxmint

indigo twist wrote: »

Bear in mind that your son can be baptised at any stage in his life. But he can never be "unbaptised" - once you've signed him up, he's on the register for life. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. There are so many people in this country (myself included) who wish they had never been baptised, but can't do anything about it. It might be difficult now to explain your decision to your mother - but think long term; isn't it going to be even more difficult in a few years to explain to your son why you lied in order to sign him up for a faith that you don't practise or believe in?

Just to clear this misconception up, a record of baptism is just that, a record that a baptism took place, it doesn't make you a current member of anything. It's not a "register for life", and it's not used to calculate church members.

WittyName1

Foxmint wrote: »

Just to clear this misconception up, a record of baptism is just that, a record that a baptism took place, it doesn't make you a current member of anything. It's not a "register for life", and it's not used to calculate church members.

You are completely wrong. It makes you a member of the Catholic church - an organisation which you can no longer ever leave once becoming a member.

Foxmint

WittyName1 wrote: »

You are completely wrong. It makes you a member of the Catholic church - an organisation which you can no longer ever leave once becoming a member.

You'll have to provide evidence for this common internet yarn, I've never seen anyone do so to date. The church doesn't use baptism records to calculate numbers. It's a record of an even that took place, just in the same way your school cannnot claim your leaving cert never took place. If you have left you have left. Your local golf club does not issue letters to non members saying they are not members. Either you are a paid up member or you are not.

newtoboards

Foxmint wrote: »

You'll have to provide evidence of that then, I've never seen anyone do so.

It seems from the attached that only denouncing your faith is the only way not to be Catholic and there doesn't seem to be a formal process defined for that either.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/if-im-baptized-as-a-catholic-does-that-mean-im-catholic-forever-even-if-i-marry-outsi

Foxmint

newtoboards wrote: »

It seems from the attached that only denouncing your faith is the only way not to be Catholic and there doesn't seem to be a formal process defined for that either.

There is an even easier way, you just don't be a Catholic and you're not one, its a simple as that. You can walk across the road and join another church, religion, none etc. Baptism records are not used to calculate the number of current Church members.

Mulumpy

Just getting back to OP. They have the right not to have they're child baptised but that isnt the issue. The issue is the torment it is causing her mother.
Im not saying they're mother is right putting pressure on but surely our parents deserve (not all) some respect to be allowed their view and a fair agreement put in place.
Its very hard for the previous generation just to switch off when the catholic church had (has)such a hold over its followers.

newtoboards

Foxmint wrote: »

There is an even easier way, you just don't be a Catholic and you're not one, its a simple as that. You can walk across the road and join another church, religion, none etc. Baptism records are not used to calculate the number of current Church members.

I disagree; using your golf club analogy where if I stop paying membership fees I am considered no longer a member. With Catholicism I'm considered a lapsed member of the religion even by choosing not to visit the frequent members meetings and activities. Also I made it clear to our priest that I do not go to mass as I don't believe in it and there was no problem with me either getting married or having my son christened as I am still Catholic in his eyes and he thought my husband might me able to win me back round.
It does matter that I cannot write a letter to the head of the Catholic religion and no longer be a Catholic.

bur

Ah just do it for your mammy if it's making her that upset.

We're probably the last generation where this kind of thing will be expected or forced upon us by our parents or family. Atheists will still have their day in their sun whether your child is christened or not.

Foxmint

newtoboards wrote: »

I disagree; using your golf club analogy where if I stop paying membership fees I am considered no longer a member. With Catholicism I'm considered a lapsed member of the religion even by choosing not to visit the frequent members meetings and activities. Also I made it clear to our priest that I do not go to mass as I don't believe in it and there was no problem with me either getting married or having my son christened as I am still Catholic in his eyes and he thought my husband might me able to win me back round.
It does matter that I cannot write a letter to the head of the Catholic religion and no longer be a Catholic.

Neither parent needs to be a Catholic to have a child christened.
Non Catholics can get married in a Catholic church to Catholics.
A baptism is a record of a past event that took place.
If some well meaning indivdual golf club member claims that to them, you are still a member, it doesn't mean you are. Walk into your golf club and offically ask them to issue everyone who is no longer a member with an official letter saying they are no longer a member, or were never a member, and demand them to keep offical records of everyone who says they are no longer a member, and see how you get on. You are't required to write a letter to a Golf club saying you are not a member, you simply stop paying your dues and stop going, and volia, you are no longer a member. If you were born in Dublin but living elsewhere, walk up to city hall and ask them for an official letter saying you are no longer living in Dublin, and ask them to offically record it in the birth cert register, and see how you get on. No organisation in the real world works that way.

You arn't a Catholic, so get over it. Catholics join other religions and leave all the time.

jill_valentine

How much do priests ask for a Christening these days btw? On top of what the attendees put in the basket out of politeness? It's probably not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things but I'm sorry, it would gall me badly to put a cent in that organisation's pocket in the name of a child, just to keep somebody quiet.

WittyName1

Foxmint wrote: »

Neither parent needs to be a Catholic to have a child christened.
Non Catholics can get married in a Catholic church to Catholics.
A baptism is a record of a past event that took place.
If some well meaning indivdual golf club member claims that to them, you are still a member, it doesn't mean you are. Walk into your golf club and offically ask them to issue everyone who is no longer a member with an official letter saying they are no longer a member, or were never a member, and demand them to keep offical records of everyone who says they are no longer a member, and see how you get on. You are't required to write a letter to a Golf club saying you are not a member, you simply stop paying your dues and stop going, and volia, you are no longer a member. If you were born in Dublin but living elsewhere, walk up to city hall and ask them for an official letter saying you are no longer living in Dublin, and ask them to offically record it in the birth cert register, and see how you get on. No organisation in the real world works that way.

You arn't a Catholic, so get over it. Catholics join other religions and leave all the time.

To use your pointless golf club analogy - if I want to cancel my membership I must inform them before they charge me for next year. I can email them, post a letter or call them and tell them to cancel my membership.

There is no longer a way to cancel your "membership" to the catholic church. No membership fees are paid so just stopping them isn't an option.

Religion is such a massive thing to a lot of people. It's not something you should sign your child up to if you don't believe in it yourself. It should always be the choice of the person themselves when they reach a suitable age. And you definitely shouldn't sign them up to make someone else happy I.e. the grandparents.

Sign them up the the local golf club instead.

Foxmint

WittyName1 wrote: »

Religion is such a massive thing to a lot of people. It's not something you should sign your child up to if you don't believe in it yourself. It should always be the choice of the person themselves when they reach a suitable age. And you definitely shouldn't sign them up to make someone else happy I.e. the grandparents.

Sign them up the the local golf club instead.

Actually you don't, you just stop paying and stop attending. If your not a paying the sub and you don't attend, your're not a member. Simples.

Why would you suggest signing them up to the local golf club if you don't want them to play golf ? And even if you do, they are later free to be a non member or joing another golf club any time they like.

newtoboards

Foxmint wrote: »

Actually you don't, you just stop paying and stop attending. If your not a paying the sub and you don't attend, your're not a member. Simples.

Canon law disagree's with you as do I so we will have to agree to disagree. I think that's a simpler, far clearer, more sensible approach.

Foxmint

newtoboards wrote: »

Canon law disagree's with you as do I so we will have to agree to disagree. I think that's a simpler, far clearer, more sensible approach.

What cannon law ? I've heard this internet yarn a thousand times but never seen it proven.

You're free to join any other religion or none.

WittyName1

newtoboards wrote: »

Canon law disagree's with you as do I so we will have to agree to disagree. I think that's a simpler, far clearer, more sensible approach.

I agree with NewToBoards and facts so I too am going to have to agree to disagree.

One final point though....if I never post on boards again does that mean I am no longer a member? No.

December2012

I don't think you should do it to appease your mother.

However, what you should do is acknowledge with your mother that she has her beliefs and that she wants what she perceives to be the best for your child because she loves you both.

Respect her feelings in the matter, without changing your own.

And then ask her to do the same with you - to acknowledge where you're coming from.

You do not have to agree with each other. But you should respect each other's opinion. And then drop the matter.

December2012

December2012 wrote: »

I don't think you should do it to appease your mother.

However, what you should do is acknowledge with your mother that she has her beliefs and that she wants what she perceives to be the best for your child because she loves you both.

Respect her feelings in the matter, without changing your own.

And then ask her to do the same with you - to acknowledge where you're coming from.

You do not have to agree with each other. But you should respect each other's opinion. And then drop the matter.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Foxmint

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, this pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Yes it could. And it sounds like it's best she doesn't untill you both cool down.

indigo twist

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

The expression regarding cutting off one's nose to spite one's face comes to mind here ... If she wants to miss out on precious time with her young grandson, it's her own decision. Don't give in to emotional blackmail.

How Strange

I think respect has to work both ways. The Op should and seems to be respectful of her mothers beliefs but her mother isnt respecting hers.

I don't see how a compromise can be reached in this situation. You can't half christen a child and I know a naming ceremony would've added insult to injury for my mother. What's worse than a christening? A non christening. As a catholic she wanted the holy water over the forehead and the renouncing of the devil.

I respect that my mother is a practising catholic who thinks baptism is essential for all babies but I'm an adult and my husband and I make parental choices. I simply ask that they respect that.

I personally believe that when you're a parent you'll always have to make tough decisions so why capitulate at the first hurdle?

I definitely don't subscribe to the theory that it's a piece of paper and a splash of water so just go along with it. Then you have to go along with the communion and confirmation for a quiet life. I'd prefer to be honest and face some tough situations and do it our way than cow tow to parents because were scared of them.

iguana

Foxmint wrote: »

Remember your mother feels this way because she truly believes it could effect her grandchild's eternity, so don't be too hard on her. Her belief that its good for the child, is a strong as yours.

If she believes that then she is a pretty crappy Catholic as following the extensive study of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Emeritus Benedict, the RCC made clear over 22 years ago that those beliefs are not now and never actually have been church doctrine.

krudler

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Fair play to you, there's way, way too much of this appeasing mammy thinking in regards christenings and raising kids in churches where the parents dont want to. It's your kid, your choice, your rules.

Foxmint

iguana wrote: »

If she believes that then she is a pretty crappy Catholic as following the extensive study of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Emeritus Benedict, the RCC made clear over 22 years ago that those beliefs are not now and never actually have been church doctrine.

Calling the OP's mother a 'crappy Catholic' for believing in baptism, is not very good advice.

From the Christian viewpoint, they always claim, it's always much better to be baptised than unbaptised, as Jesus clearly commanded baptism as a requirement to be born again, in water and in spirit, and commanded the apostles and their sucessors to go forth and baptise. (That's if you believe Jesus and the new testament) So I don't see how that makes her a "crappy Catholic". Quite the opposite in fact. The church's position on that has always been the same. Unless you're getting mixed up about limbo, which was never a church doctrine in the first place, but was, and still is, a mere theological speculation term for something theologians don't know and can't decide on. Limbo was never a doctrine or a place and never will be, it's simply a term theologians use to say they don't know what happens and only God knows and decides. The media over the years, and as a result some misled Catholics, ended up believing it refered to an actual place. That's what in fact Benny was trying to clear up with the media and what he was referring to. Nothing has changed.

Of course all that is getting away from the point that it should be entirely up to a parent if their baby is baptised or not. It's not up to a Grandparent, but they are entitled to disagree and hold a differing belief/opinion, and no family needs to fall out about it.

December2012

Sunnyspot wrote: »

Thanks, that's pretty much what I did. It couldn't have gone worse. My mother is now keeping her distance saying she won't be calling down for a period of time.

Then let her calm down, think about things and come to you when she is ready.

pwurple

Have you discussed with your mother her reasons for wanting the baptism?

Most irish people are not fervent catholics, more moderate types. She may want the christening in order to invite the family and neighbours and have a lovely day welcoming the child. If this is the case, then you can possibly find a compromise, a party of some other kind.

We weren't too bothered either way... could take it or leave it. Semi-practicing, if that (mainly the party bits! Easter and christmas etc). We had a chat with families about it. Turned out it was important to them for traditional reasons. The 200 year old yellowed-with-age christening robe, the hand-crocheted shawl made by great great grandmother. That kind of thing. I like long-standing traditions, so was happy to participate in that.

She may want to child to attend a particular school. If so, investigate the enrollment policy and see if it is an issue, or decide if that is even the school yout want.

If it is the fear of eternal damnation, then I would advise a trip to the local priest to discuss it with him. He may chat to her about it. That's what I did when my dad was throwing a hissy fit about there being no communion or full mass at our wedding. Priest had a chat, all sorted.


In short... Discuss it with her. Calmly if you can.

Queen-Mise

WittyName1 wrote: »

I don't mean to pick flaws in your post but by having your kids christened you didn't really 'let the kids make up their own minds'.

It's not exactly as if they know they were christened when they are babies.

Christening doesn't magically endow the child with the entire history of the Christian faith and all that involves. The ceremony does not entail brain-washing.

It is up to them if they decide to follow the Catholic faith or not.

lazygal

Queen-Mise wrote: »

It is up to them if they decide to follow the Catholic faith or not.

Children who aren't baptized into the catholic faith also have this option.

Hello Lady!

Foxmint wrote: »

Neither parent needs to be a Catholic to have a child christened.
Non Catholics can get married in a Catholic church to Catholics.
A baptism is a record of a past event that took place.

Neither parent has to be Catholic, but by entering into the ceremony you are promising to enter your child in the Catholic faith. It is one of the sacriments of the faith. Equally, whilst a non-catholic can marry in a catholic church, they are expected to receive the sacriment of marriage. I had this discussion myself with a local priest because when we got married secular weddings outside of the registry office were only just passed into law. So initially we were thinking of a blessing in a church for convenience. However we were told that there is no such thing as a blessing of a non-catholic marriage - if some priests do it, it is at their own discretion. To have a ceremony in a catholic church we would have to have a proper catholic wedding and accept the sacriment of marriage and all that entails. We would also need to promise to raise our children catholic. My then husband to be (the non-Christian) had no issue, as to him it made no difference, but to me it was a case of standing up on a day which should be about truth and love and literally telling lies for the sake of a venue. Promising to do things you won't do etc.

Having recently attended three catholic christenings, in each and every one the priest preached about the new baby becoming a member of the faith, of the parents duty to uphold that faith, of their joining the communion of saints and the fellowship of the church. That is more than a record of an event. Now you may think its ok to zone out and ignore all that, and make promises you don't mean. But for me it screams of hypocracy and is distasteful. My children are the most precious and pure souls. When I celebrate their joining our family I don't want to do it amidst a ceremony full of promises I won't keep and lies I make just for simplicity and the sake of granny.

We had a naming ceremony for our girls. It was very spiritual, but I know others who have also had humanist totally secular ceremonies which were just as nice. The ceremony was so personal and beautiful. Even my dyed in the wool, regular church going father was very moved and said it was beautiful. There were still words like 'blessing' and they were anointed with water, with the meaning behind it being the water of life rather than washing away sin.

OP, I know your mam might not initially think that a naming ceremony would cut it, but what about a 'blessing' as such, rather than a catholic christening? As a compromise, then 'god' as she understands it is blessing the child, but there is no promise of them entering a particular faith.

Or if you are in Dublin, the United Church on Stephens green can give a christian blessing and are very open to keeping it generic and not a proclamation of faith, other than the general ethos of Christianity.

They might be options to explore?